I just handled a 4" blued one today. It seemed to be very, very well done. The only thing that didn't look 'straight' L-frame were the use of what appears to be a Millet style rear sight, and the odd cross-pinned front blade you see in the pictures. Action was even about par with a new MIM Smith.

Anyone have any real-world experience with one? I've always thought that a matte blue revoler that was parkerized would be damn sexy, but never come across a Smith beat-on hard enough to make it worthwhile to do.

Sarsılmaz - SR-38

I can see talking up Sarsilmaz on a Smith forum has it's challenges, but we'll only be seeing more of this Turkish manufacturer, so might try to get this topic back up and running. Bought a black SR38 (.38/.357) with 4" barrel in January after a favorable video review and low price by an importer. It is dimensionally almost identical to a 686 4", controls feel like a Smith, but everything was stiffer and harder to operate out of the box. After 200 rounds, it only started to loosen up. I give Sarsilmaz credit for tight tolerances, fit and good parkerized finish (so I don't worry over it much), smooth consistent DA action at 8lbs, clean breaking SA at 4lbs on my gun. Smith owners would be surprised at the SR38 trigger. They have figured something out to where you want to shoot this gun in DA all the time. Adjustable all black rear sight is a nice feature, but is an LPA clone itself, with proprietary mounting that looks like it is made to be interchanged with something Sarsilmaz is not currently importing. Front blade is flat black and a bit hard to see in certain lighting, but narrow enough for careful target work. Their rubberized finger groove grip is all their own, and should be marketed as an accessory by itself. Provides great control and ergonomics (if you like finger grooves, that is) and makes long sessions with .357 very manageable. Without having taken it all apart yet, it does seem like everything is very close, but not interchangeable with a Smith. That said, it would be very familiar and easy to get used to if all you owned were Smiths. Just be ready for that stiff operation out of the box. Only question for me is the durability of the "steel alloy" frame which makes a hammer fall sound like it's hitting aluminum, not steel. Functions and shoots fine, and beats most Taurus or Rossi revolvers I've shot. Not enough ammo testing yet to declare its best accuracy at 25 yds, but doing 2-3" right now when benched in both factory loads like Remington. Have used lead nosed and not seen any shaving or splash at the forcing cone or cylinder, so alignment may be very good. Feel accuracy will improve when I and the gun are broken in more. All in all, a very good value and definitely a clone. Will be taking it all apart as soon as I can and provide photos and a comparison to my other Smiths. Any other SR38 owners out there are welcome to beat me to it, so we can share notes.

Thanks for bumping this with some input. I've only seen the one example, and it sold fast enough that I would've thought the dealer would've brought more in. It definitely struck me as nicer than the Windicator, which seems to get some good reviews on its own.

Far from being a new kid on the block, Sarsilmaz is a veteran firearms manufacturer. I've shot their military contract pistol, the SAR9, and liked it a lot, especially the price.

Index page

SARSILMAZ

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Ad Astra Per Aspera

Currently In-Stock at Bud's

T R Imports SR383574 Sarsilmaz SR38 Single/Double 357 Magnum 4 6 Black Polymer

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I've shared posts in other forums with a few Sarsilmaz SR38 owners and experiences are variable, but not negative. Everyone is a fan of fit and finish and grips. Most all note the stiffer operation in cylinder open and close. Trigger pulls are reported from 11-8lbs in DA (but very consistent pull and break), with 4lbs in SA a common number. To not prejudice my first posting too much, I didn't mention that the SR38 I own now is my second example, after returning the first. I want to be fair in assessing something when it is functional, and not harp on the lemon of the bunch, but the first SR38 I received locked up at every 20-25 rounds because the cylinder to forcing cone gap was slightly out of true, and so close (.002 to .001") that just a little carbon or heat would stop rotation. I could have resorted to a gunsmith, but the Importer was great and replaced it no problem, and sent a new revolver within a week, after performing their own QC check at their shop. I've had no trouble with the second revolver, but then the cylinder gap on my replacement is now closer to (.004).

My only real issue with the SR38 in both my examples is the cylinder stop. With hammer fully back, it is not as tight as a Smith. For all the work they did fitting everything else, they left the cylinder stop tolerance looser than I like. I suspect it gives them room for error in mass production and timing. Can't complain for the price, but I can move the SR38 cylinder a bit too much. My 625 is rock solid, but my 1970s Model 14 has a very slight side to side play but shoots great, so I don't have enough examples to judge what is "good" or "bad" rotation tolerance. Perhaps others can say how much this is affecting accuracy. All I can say is bore to cylinder alignment appears good in normal rotation and in a range rod check. No lead shaving on the forcing cone either. I haven't asked this question of good (or bad) lockup to the other SR38 owners, so chip in if you have one and can comment.

Looks like an L-frame after they modded it for The Lock, but this has no lock, thank goodness.

Will the rear sight screws remain tight and durable? Does the action wear-in and smooth up a bit, with a lighter trigger pull?

I was impressed that the guy in the video used Winchester 145 grain ST .357 ammo, one of my favorite .357 loads.

I'd prefer the polished stainless version, as with any other modern revolver, but this looks like a quality gun.

I don't get the reference to Turkey supporting terrorism. Turkey is a NATO nation.

Overall, this looks like a gun that I'd like to see given wider tests by known gun writers. Or, by Hickok .45 on video, although he drones on forever.

I think this gun is going to give Taurus fits and may increase their QC.

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1-That's excellent
2- Perfectly normal
3- That's all one can ask for

Some pics of my SR38 and first images of the internals. Lots of MIM parts in there, and notably rougher surfaces, but very similar. You experienced S&W gunsmiths and tinkerers can tell me what looks like a copy or a new concept. For starters, as other reviewers have noted already, SR38 frame takes an L frame aftermarket set of grips just fine. I also note that my spare Miculek re-contured main spring is the same length as the one in the grip frame picture. After a brief trial and error with the strain screw, should be a good first swapping experiment. Will keep taking pics and notes as I disassemble further and compare. Taking it slow. Thanks for all the input. Oh, and why disassemble you ask? Until Sarsilmaz starts selling parts, might be good to know what is interchangeable.

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The shape of the extractor is interesting!

Looks as good as the current Smiths!

Rear Sight correction: I stated earlier the rear sight is proprietary, but turns out, only from the outside. Remove the two screws holding the sight in the top strap and it reveals a recessed groove and rear U notch cut into the top strap very much like a late model Smith set up for adjustable sights. The pictured Sarsilmaz rear sight strangely does not hook into the rear notch found on Smith adjustable sights, but relies on the screws alone. Sure looks like it is set up to use a Smith standard adjustable rear. But... the recess channel cut in the Sarsilmaz top strap, is dimensionally .001 too narrow to take a Smith rear sight. So close. Aftermarket rear mounts designed for Smiths, also do not fit without, well...fitting. It's so close a non-fit, that I might give Sarsilmaz credit for too just tight a tolerance. Their own rear sight fits perfectly.

If you go so far to modify your replacement sight base, the screw holes for attaching a Smith rear sight strap are in the right place, though only in the two forward most positions, not three as normally found on a late model Smith. You would have to reuse the Sarsilmaz's screws to secure the mount, as it appears the threads are different (but don't quote me on that one. I just visually inspected, and hesitate to damage the threads trying out my "Smith" screws).

So, interchangeability with Smith parts? Only sort of, and only if you break out the sanding block and narrow up your standard Smith (and aftermarket) rear sight mounts. I might do it to get that scope rail or red dot to mount, but some may balk at having magnum recoil held back with only two screws. More investigating to do.

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That looks like an LPA rear sight (or copy of one)

What is the average price on these revolvers?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Thanks for the pictures colt_saa! I knew it looked LPA-like but there is no branding on the Sarsilmaz version. Your sights certainly look identical to the SR38 down to screws and adjustment tics. This opens up some nice possibilities for the rear sight choices if any LPA rear designed for Smith & Wesson K/L/N revolvers will fit the Sarsilmaz.


The front sight blade is another matter. It is a front loaded very small dovetail, and sorry I don't have a dead on front picture to share. (I try not to point my firearms at my face, but I will post a "safe" camera shot soon). In the photo you can barely see the sight blade itself slides in from the front and the dovetail slot runs to just beyond the pin that holds it in place. Someone may be able to give me another example of this from another firearm.

Muley_Gil: The average pricing for SR38's were hovering around $420.00 street for the 4" black finished version late last year, but supplies seemed to have dried up lately. I haven't seen any stainless models for sale, but Sarsilmaz did show them at the 2018 SHOT show and TR Imports indicates some in stock. If you can't wait, TR Imports is where to go for availability and latest prices at $480-550.00, but it may be worth waiting for a reseller to discount them. I paid just under $400 for mine in a Classic Firearms sale at first of this year. But checking today, CF shows out of stock and no listings on Gunbroker.

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Its been a while since I posted, but its taken this long to arrive at a definite update on load testing and improvements made to the Sarsilmaz SR38 revolver. During the summer I did load testing with several factory brands and results were disappointing. Without showing endless photos of the same thing, no matter the load, the SR38 turned in 4-5" groups at 30 feet. Some loads increased that to 6" spacing. It was the usual pattern you see of two or three rounds grouping and then unpredictable flyers. Not much improvement even when sandbag benched.

The first photo is the "after" results explained in this post. The SR38 can be improved, but it took some work and a trip to the gunsmith.

By late summer, I began to reload .38 special loads with .357 diameter lead bullets, and later .358 diameter lead bullets to see if it would help grouping. Neither bullet size or changes in load velocities grouped any better than factory ammo. My usual shooting is for bullseye so I tend to load at 800 fps or less with semi-wadcutters or DEWC at 148 grains. After tweaking velocities I wasn't getting good results "as is." I was eventually successful, but not due to my superb reloading skills.

By now most of you revolver guys know where this is going, and I finally had to admit the cylinder chambers might be part of the problem. Bought my first ever set of pin gauges and measurements showed uniform chambers, but only in pairs. Two adjacent chambers would agree at .357 minus, then the next two would be .358 minus, then next pair at .357 plus. Somewhat reluctantly, I had a local gunsmith ream the cylinder to the largest chamber size, ending with all 6 at .3582. Barrel slugged to .3553 so the result is on the margins of a good chamber to barrel diameter relationship at a .0029 inch difference.

While the revolver was in the shop, I also had him ream the barrel throat with an 11 degree cut. As I said in earlier posts, the lockup on the SR38 is a bit loose compared to a good Smith, and the slightly wider throat with the longer approach angle eases the bullet alignment in theory. These two changes are debated (a lot) in revolver circles, but the results were impressive in this gun. The target photo is an average grouping at 25 yards benched after reaming work with Federal 38C standard 158gr 770 fps target load with a round nose lead bullet. These were shot using a sandbag and mounting a mini-red dot. My worse group of the day was free hand at 2" grouups. A Burris fast fire III was used in the initial range sight-in, and later switched out for a Vortex Venom 6 MOA you see in the photo.

Turns out an Allchin SKS mount for Smith L & N frames, will fit the rear sight recess channel on the top of the SR38 - if you take about a thousand off each side of the aligning lug (of the mount!) with some judicious stoning. Once fitted, it is held in place with two screws that come with the mount, also intended for a Smith & Wesson, so more cloning is in evidence. So far, mount has stayed secure, although testing was limited to 100 rounds of my soft shooting reloads, and 50 rounds of magnum loads. I do like the LPA style sight that comes on the SR38 but have to admit the red dot improved this shooter's grouping at bullseye distances.

Finally, last week, the SR38 was disassembled and the internals stoned and polished in accordance with Jerry Miculek's "Trigger Job" DVD produced back in the day. Still available from BANG, Inc. and an excellent resource for tuning up a Smith revolver, it also was right in line with working on the SR38. My son and I worked on both this SR38 and a Smith at the same time, and did nearly identical work. We smoothed out contact points in the hammer, trigger and return spring housing. We didn't touch the sear surfaces, but did buff most contact points. And where I am trying out Jerry's reduced power mainspring in my 625, we left the SR38 with its stock springs. Side note: the SR38 hammer spring is a clone or a genuine "power rib" type as made by Wolff. I believe it is the source of the smooth feel to the DA cycling of the gun. The internals work we did made it all that much smoother.

Original DA was close to 10 lbs with the strain screw all the way in. In my earlier post, a slight let off of the screw would produce an 8.5lb pull in DA, but the feel was loose. Original SA pull was averaging 5lbs.

After tuning work, DA is down just below 8lbs and consistent with a positive feel, no stacking, with strain screw turned all the way in. Single action is now 3 lbs. 12oz on average and break is clean, but I wouldn't say light. Overall cycling in both DA and SA was noticeably improved compared to the stock gun. Of course, the best outcome is 1-2" groupings with the right size bullet and loads at 25 yards. With even more care on the trigger, likely to get even better.

The only thing left to do with this revolver is shoot it. And perhaps change springs some day and touch the sear surfaces if they don't improve on their own. My latest opinion is the SR38 is still a good value that can be a great one. The new shot groupings show the SR38 can be successfully improved, albeit with some traditional revolver gunsmithing and home tuning work.

Total cost of improvements was $78.00 on top of the original $400 dollar investment and 3-4 hours of disassembly, light stoning and buffing work. It's hard to judge at this point whether the improvements move the gun into genuine Smith territory in most respects, but its close....for a clone.

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Your labors have born fruit! Very nice....

I haven't yet found an SR38, but I am looking for one. I can attest to their quality from my SAR K2 45 auto. It's a double stack .45 w/an adjustable rear sight and it holds 14 rounds. It's very soft shooting and as accurate as I can shoot it. I like it better than the Para Ordnance P-14 I bought during the Clinton era, and it uses the P-14 left-over mags too.

I think they are a "below radar" manufacturer right now and are offering bargain priced handguns with quality that matches the big boys.

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It was stated early on in press releases when Sarsilmaz handguns started appearing in the US in 2014 that 1) they had world class CNC machining, and 2) that Sarsilmaz was producing for the LE market in Turkey. If the duty market was their design goal, then shifting to the commercial market in the US, the SR38 needed some more work to bring it into acceptable sporting accuracy, or self-defense, IMO. Never going to be a bullseye gun, but tweaking makes is a fine combat pistol and smooth DA, good grips, and working man's finish at a good price. We'll see about durability. Would not hesitate to use it for self-defense, but from the nightstand, unless you are already carrying a 3lb plus all steel revolver.

There will be some more shooting reports for accuracy with tuned reloads. I still have to solve the right cast bullet hardness and velocity to minimize leading flash around the forcing cone.

That pretty much wraps up my contributions to this thread. As I expected when first reviving the subject, not too many Smith forum members feel a need to encourage Sarsilmaz clones.

I'm also not a reviewer, just a tinkerer, who ran across this thread. My comparison skills are as careful as I could manage and shooting results are in a controlled range environment and a solid bench. I'm the biggest variable in testing, so your results may vary.

Last comments on accuracy. I find most factory .38/.357 ammo is produced to shoot in a wide variety of pistols, and is typically using a .357 or even a .356 diameter jacketed or lead bullet. I had to go to cast lead from Missouri Bullet tailored to the reamed chambers to get better results. Not Sarsilmaz's fault, since undersized bullets perform mediocre in all my Smith revolvers, too. So, I'm not the first guy to find out that careful measuring and reloading is the way to go for consistent accuracy, but makes a difference if you are expecting more from the SR38 and factory ammo.

Bottom line, the "improved" Sarsilmaz SR38 groups well, where my Smith Model 14 or 625 can cut a single hole off hand, so there's still more shooting in the future to see how far the SR38 can manage on accuracy. I don't expect Sarsilmaz to overthrow the Smith market anytime, but is a reasonable option among budget choices, and with some tweaking, fine for target and self-defense use.

I personally recommend the SR38 over other budget revolvers, usually available only in .38 special at the same price. The SR38 give the added benefit of magnum power. Thanks for all the replies and comments.

BTW. I like the looks of the .45 from Sarsilmaz posted by kraynky. I am curious how well your SAR K2 is performing, how well built, etc. but that's stretching the purpose of this thread, so send me a private message. The K2 looks like Sig Sauer and CZ had a baby. A big baby. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

I have one and wrote about it here. My first .45 pistol....

I have since discovered that it is sprung for weak sauce range ammo. 185 gr Golden Sabers caused the slide to slam in recoil. I fitted a stronger spring from Wolff, 16 lb IIRC for a fullsize EAA Witness, and that fixed the problem. Some guys go to 18 lb springs. The only softer shooter in 45 is a Star Megastar, but that's because it weighs about 3 lbs.

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Release the Kraken

First, thanks for LVSteve for a link to his posts on the Sarsilmaz .45 semi-auto. Another interesting import and interesting that you also found some work was needed as I did, but did improve function.

SR38 Range day: Please read the prior posts to see how we got here. The following is limited but typical results at the range after improving the SR38 revolver with 1) cylinder reaming, 2) forcing cone to 11 deg cut, and 3) smoothing internals for slightly lighter DA/SA pull. The test was from a solid bench on a Caldwell pistol rest with the new DEWC 148gr lead reloads recipe.

Correction: The Vortex "Venom" red dot was used, 6 moa. and the Allchin mount is the "STS" (not SKS) for Smith K,L, or N mini red dots.
On this outing more Titegroup powder is behind the lead bullet of BRN 12 hardness, designed for 900 fps, 17000 psi from Lyman's 50th Ed reloading guide. I am learning what minimum velocity (I'm a target shooter, remember) I can push without leading.

These are ".38 special" loads in .357 cases. Distance was 50 feet, although my prior 75 feet results were similar with factory ammo. p.s. some claim Titegroup can be pushed too hot and melt or cut lead at faster velocities, but I'd did not see it with this load.

The day was 40 degrees with a stout wind coming toward us, so Cold. Sorry no chrono, but no great loss in these conditions. It was windy enough that if you attempted one handed shooting, the wind gusts could move your arm. Then came the rain, so … typical outing when you want to test for accuracy. I would win a bet that there are many threads about how shooters juggle work, family life and target practice, and guess who gets the good weather.

The two target photos are typical, but not as good as I hoped. The temptation is to post only perfect groups, but I wanted to show best practical accuracy we could get. We all forgive the gun we own, but the SR38 still shows potential that more trigger care could improve, or better bench conditions. Hope springs eternal. The fun is finding scientific-sounding excuses to reload and shoot the SR38 till those groups are as tight as possible, ignoring most birthdays and holidays in the process. Some might say we are already there, but I suffer from bullseytis, so we'll keep working on it. I'll post when we test again. Happy holidays!

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