Been doing some research on these. Thought I might add an older model to my collection. Looking for some expertise on these pistols. Here's some information on one I've been researching:

I'm looking at a Model B, proof mark is the Flaming Circle with a P inside of it. This proof mark is on the flat of the left side of the trigger guard and on the left side of the slide above the safety.

The proof mark year is 1945 designated by the P.

Moving onto serial numbers. The serial number under the butt is "237865" with a B above it indicating the Model Number. There is another "serial number" on the front of the grip using the dotted type engraving. It is engraved as such "SER: B2237865" Note the extra 2 that is different from the single 2 on the butt. Is there supposed to be a serial number on the slide? I've seen them on some models but not on others.

I don't see any import marks unless the dotted serial number on the front of the grip was done by an importer.

Also, there is no engravings on the right side of the frame. Is this correct for this year and model?

Any help would be appreciated. I used the references found on 1911 Forum. Any additional references?

All you need to know is right here: Star Firearms: Find Your Weapon

This can be addicting here's some more.
9mm Largo Webpage

The 'flameing bomb w/a P inside of it' is the Spanish auto pistol proof mark.
The P in this marking meaning Proof. It always stays the same


The year of proof would be a separate letter code stamp to the right of the above.
A 'P' would be correct for a pistol proofed in 1945.

However... I show by ser# the pistol being mfg in 1943.
A Model B mfg in 1945 would be in the 266xx ser# range.
Not that it can't and probably did happen,,but look for a Proof Code marking.
1941..M
1942..N
1943..N w/the accent mark over the letter
1944..O
1945..P

(sometimes letters will have an '*' over them, it doesn't change the meaning or year.)

The Eibar/Spain Proof House exceptance mark is to the left of the flaming bomb mark and is a Knights helmet over a shield w/an X inside the shield.
Together these 3 markings form whats called the triad of pistol proofs on Spanish auto pistols.

The ser# you give from the bottom of the butt of the pistol, 237856, shows in the references I have as a Model B manf in 1943.
230826 to 240990 mfg in one particular batch 1943 (not the total output for 1943).
I also show the ser# 237856 to be within the final delivery of 5000 STAR Model B pistol to the Bulgarian Gov't Ministry of Defense in 1944 from Star.
Total Bulgarian Govt contract was for 15,000 pistols
The final delivery of 5000 was made on 3/23/44. Ser #'s 235901-240900 were the final delivery bunch.
Should be a standard commercial pistol with NO German WW2 Military markings.
Many of these pistols were surplused and imported into the USA in the 90's after the Communist regime had fallen in Bulgaria.
Heavily refinished and some obtained faked German Waffenampt mark (WaA251) to boost sales. Even Model B's out of the Bulgarian contract range got fake markings sometimes.
The Waffenampt marking will be found on Star Model B pistols ISSUED to German military forces.

The added serial number on the front of the grip may be an importer or other retailers addition..doesn't really make a lot of sense.
That ser# and 'B' model designation from the factory on the bottom of the grip frame is the real ser#.

The only Star A or B model I can recall w/ numbered slides were Spanish Military issue,,and that number and it's corresponding matching frame number were a Military Issue #,,not the ser#.
Usually found on the left side one above the other, they have been mistaken as the pistols ser# many times.

Some early mfg Model B pistols that went to German forces used an Issue Number also. They are usually found stamped on the right side of the slide and frame at the breech end. Again, the issue numbers (and sometimes a letter) match each other, but have nothing to do with the guns ser#.

Most Star and other Spanish made pistols use Roman Numerals during production, simply hand stamped w/a single blade tool or even scratched into the metal to keep track of matching parts and to a master parts tray they are working from.
Done on inside surfaces so as not to mar the finish, they can be used to tell if a slide, frame and some other parts are matching.
The Numeral itself means nothing but it is an easy, quick way to mark the parts and keep them matched up during mfg.

As it seems there are some Star Model B fanciers here, I will ask a question. I have a neighbor (quite elderly) who has a 9mm Star Model B. He has a difficult time pulling the trigger, not helped by his arthritis. He asked if I could do anything about lightening the trigger pull. I do have Star B disassembly instructions, but no experience in doing anything like lightening a Star's trigger pull. Does anyone know what's involved?

Never mind the trigger pull can he rack the slide?

this 1945 p marked specimen is in the 2730xx serial range,
it has no lanyard cuts or access holes for the pins, but does have the
08 cal. marking on the barrel

2152hq, Thanks so much for all the information and your time. I see some type of engraving but I can't tell what it is next to the flaming bomb with a P, but I can't quite make it out. It might have been that Knight's Helmet but I sure can't tell.
Maybe I missed, but should the right side of the slide be "mark" free? This one is. Also, the store wants $520 out the door for it. Is that a fair price or should I hold for one that has the triad of proof marks?

On a second look, it looks like something with an X above it but it is to the left of the slide stop above the flaming P that is on the trigger guard flat. Must be the symbols you are referring to. Can't tell that it is a knights helmet but I can see something by the X now that you told me what to look for.

I have both the Model B and Super Model B. Both are well made solid shooters. However the Model B really pinches the web of my palm. Were the Super B with its longer tang does not. Unless you have small hands I'd get the Super B. Besides that it has a rich deep blue finish rather than the parkerized finish on the B.

Thanks for that information. I'm actually looking for one as a historical piece that I don't plan on using as a full-time shooter, maybe a couple mags or so just to get a feel for it and see how it shoots so that's why I'm looking at the B Model.

I may go ahead and get a Super B as a shooter at some point though.

2152hq, I sent you a PM.

Big Bill, this reference had additional markings that were not in any of the others I reviewed and in fact I was able to identify the markings as a 1943 as 2152hq indicated. I can now see the N with the wave above it and the partial Knights Head with the X in the Shield. Really appreciate it!

It's a funny thing, I make a lot of personal, negative comments about 1911-style pistols but one of the guns I have that I would never consider parting with is my Star Model S. I need to get a picture of it and put it in an album here. It is basically what used to be called a "Government .380" but unlike Colt Government .380s and the similar Llama models it doesn't have a grip safety. What it does have, despite its rudimentary sights, is incredible accuracy. The original grips on it (some kind of polymer) cracked and if you screwed the top right hand grip screw in too tightly it touched the operating mechanism and the gun would simply lock up. When Ajax Grips was still around I had them make me a set of rosewood grips for it. I need to get a picture on here because it is REALLY good looking.

Star pistols have been/are underrated all the time. The links above will be fun to pore through.

ISCS Yoda, can't wait to see it. You know, I'm wanting one of the Model B's because I like the old school 1911 type pistols and just want one for the history, but since I've started researching the Star pistols, I've heard this over and over from Star owners. I'll probably end up getting a shooter at some point.

Here is a Star Model S for Yoda along with a Super A in 9mm Largo. Stars are wonderful pistols if you get a good one, but unfortunately as Star was struggling financially in their last few years of operation a lot of poorly refinished and rebuilt guns that they took in trade from the Spanish Military towards new pistols were dumped onto the market, mostly the US. Those are the ones that you see people on a lot of gun forums having problems with. I would stay away from the heavily buffed and refinished Stars with huge import marks, chances are good that they will need tinkering and parts are almost non-existent.
I almost failed to mention that the Model S is fairly unique in that it is a locked breech .380 rather than the usual blowback operation. It is similar to a 1911 pattern pistol with a swinging link and barrel that tilts down. This makes it a lot more comfortable to shoot than most .380's.

Attached Images

Spanish Steel.jpg (180.8 KB, 56 views)

Unless you mis-typed this or I'm mis-reading you. it appears you may have misinformation. The Colt "Government Model" 380 does not have a grip safety - or at least my all steel version doesn't. I have never seen one that does - and none of the "Mustang" derivatives I have seen have the grip safety either.
If I am understanding your description correctly, this sounds like you are describing the exact system on the little Colt Government Model .380 also. The barrel has the big square lug on the bottom at the breach end with a kind of oblong, curved hole milled through it. The take-down pin/lever passes through the frame and through that hole in the barrel lug and the curvature of the hole is what tilts the breach of the barrel down when the slide moves backwards out of battery under recoil.

[QUOTE=ky wonder;139478763]this 1945 p marked specimen is in the 2730xx serial range,
it has no lanyard cuts or access holes for the pins, but does have the
08 cal. marking on the barrel

KY WONDER, I just picked up one with that same barrel, etc, it's a P marked, serial number 266593.

STAR used the Cal. 08 (and some are marked Patr/08) caliber marking on the bbl till the end of WW2. Their entire output was for German Military or other Axis forces with some going to Germany for commercial sales. The Model B only started production in 1941/2.
The distinctive Cal.08 reference is to the Luger P08 and it's 9mm cartridge (patronen). The Germans also marked other foreign weapons converted to fire the 9mmLuger with the same designation like the Steyr 1911.

The Star Model B from the Bulgarian contract in unmolested condition would bring a decent price and a premium over a standard B.

So many 'faked' German Waffenampt marked Model B pistols and heavily refinished imports are around that a clean specimen gets noticed. Not nearly in the class/$$ of Lugers and Walthers, it's still a WW2 issue handgun from the Axis.

Heavy trigger pull can be a number of things on the Star design. So very different from the Colt 1911, with it's trigger bar on the right side of the frame exposed just under the grip, it's prone to 'adjustment' by people who should be doing anything to them.
Sear engagement is usually not the problem, but later pistols can have thinly cas hardened surfaces on the hammer and wear through causing the sear to drag.
The thumb safety can cause problems, When working right you shold be able to engage it with the thumb only and see the hammer cam back off the sear. You should NOT have to use your other hand to pull the hammer back a small amt to then engage the safety. Doing this latter move shows the safety and/or the sear & hammer parts are worn inside. That wear can also cause a heavy trigger pull as well as the safety movement problem.
The disconnector is under the right grip also. If it doesn't move freely up and down with slide movement andallow the trigger bar to re-engage the sear after the slide closes, heavey trigger pull or even skip-by of the trigger can occure.
The disconnector slot in the frame is sometimes seen lightly peened to take up sloppy side to side movement (it's a dovetail fit). Too tight and things don't slide smoothly.
Bent sear pin, bent hammer pin or either of those pivot holes in the frame worn off center or oval in shape can effect trigger pull,,same stuff as most any 1911 type pistol.
The slides usually rack pretty easily in the Star A,B and Super A &B. One reason I kept using them with my less than usefull left hand.
But check for the slide closing completely and releasing the disconnector all the way.

I once owned a Fire Star in 40 S&W and it was a reliable pistol. I sold it but not because it wasn't a good pistol but because they weren't being made anymore or supported.

Maybe my spring is weak, but I have a B Super and it's a joy to rack. Light and very smooth, like Beretta level smooth.

[quote=ozarkmac;139480827]I hope it is a good gun, so far I have had no issues with mine, having fed it 115 grain silver bear , as well as two mags of 124 +p hornady xtp

I actually have another one that I brought back from Germany in the mid 1970's, got it off another guy in my unit in Gelnhausen, that pistol is now a dedicated tractor pistol, stays in a oily rag in my tractor tool box on another farm. it looks like **** but still shoots, I need to ge it out and take a photo of it and check the dates on it as well

I actually brought that gun home from Germany on a plane in my carry on, times have changed a lot in the last 40 years

I tried some hollow points in it back in the 70's and it did not like them, but handled fmj's just fine so the newer design of the hollow point ammo has helped

KY WONDER, that is a great story. Wow, times have changed. I plan on shooting a box through it and then it'll be a safe queen. I just wanted one as a historical piece. It looks to be all original. Has the flaming P in 4 places including the barrel hood and all markings are pretty decent. I just love the patina and history behind the old guns.

I don't even buy new weapons anymore. Not that there's anything wrong with them, I just enjoy the older ones. I'm not that good of a shot anymore with my vision steadily declining so it's a waste of money for me to deck out a gun with all the bells and whistles.

I have a scope that cost more than any of my rifles for that type of shooting. LOL!

What kind of money on these Star model B 9mm pistols ?

__________________
wanna do right-- not right now

that will depend on the gun its self, an obvious Russian rework B, and surplus some super B's can be bought on line at about $269, I see nice B's with original blue at shows with asking prices running 450-500 range

the one I posted earlier in the thread was picked up locally for $200, very recently

On another note, are the Star Model FR Sport, 6 inch (22LR) rare? I have an opportunity to pick up one in excellent condition with original box and mag for $300.

After WWII, the Russians took a lot of the Wehrmacht Stars back to Mother Russia for storage. Most of those are conglomerations of random parts and were re-blued, therefore not as desirable as original specimens. I haven't seen a Model B for sale for some time, so I don't know the going prices.

Dwalt, thanks for clearing that up in plain language. The prices on the Stars you just described are $340 to your door for C&R holders. Actually not bad for the history and the age. Just wish they weren't force-matched. That's the only thing keeping me from buying one. It just looks so bad, but that's part of the history as someone previously mentioned.

I'd guess they are probably pretty good shooters but just not a good specimen for me.

As long as were talking stars don't forget to give the PD some love.
The first compact lightweight 45! I've had one for years.

I may have some sealed boxes of original 9mm Largo ammunition available.......around 125 rounds in sealed boxes.

__________________
Tom Graham SWCA #2303

Well, if we're going THERE, then don't forget the 1991 Guns and Ammo Handgun of the year - the M43 Firestar.
An all steel single stack compact 9mm.

I picked up a Model Star B, based on the "P" on the frame a 1945. I'll post some pics tomorrow, but would like some information on the following markings that I can't find in any of the Star references or I'm just overlooking:

The first is the letter "G" on the firing pin plate above the firing pin.
The other is the letter "F" on the frame under the left hand grip.

Also, the grips on this pistol are very worn, but I really like the look. I don't want new grips but want to preserve them from any further deterioration. Does anyone have any recommendations?

Thanks for your help!

Here are the pics I referred to in Post #32. There are 19 total, here are the first 5 which is the max it will allow.

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	Barrel.jpg (11.6 KB, 29 views)
	BOT PLT MAG.jpg (10.3 KB, 26 views)
	Extractor on Slide.jpg (15.8 KB, 27 views)
	G on Firing Pin Plate.jpg (10.9 KB, 25 views)
	Hammer.jpg (11.5 KB, 24 views)

Next Five Pics

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	Inside Slide.jpg (14.6 KB, 17 views)
	Left Side Markings.jpg (15.2 KB, 18 views)
	Mag Flwr.jpg (12.1 KB, 17 views)
	MOD & SER on Butt.jpg (12.1 KB, 24 views)
	Plug, Stop, Rod, Spg.jpg (16.5 KB, 19 views)

Next Five Pics

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	SER # on Frame.jpg (11.3 KB, 16 views)
	Slide and Frame.jpg (14.8 KB, 19 views)
	Slide.jpg (12.4 KB, 16 views)
	Top Side Grips.jpg (13.5 KB, 20 views)
	Trigger.jpg (14.4 KB, 24 views)

Last Four Pics

Attached Images

	untitled.jpg (12.4 KB, 14 views)
	Back Side Grips.jpg (12.9 KB, 15 views)
	Top Half Mag.jpg (12.2 KB, 13 views)
	F on Frame.jpg (13.9 KB, 14 views)

Nice looking early Star B. Those wooden grips with the border around the edges and the diamond around the screw holes are the original style for the period for the Spanish Military issue Model A I believe.
But easily could be early Mod B commercial sales pistol grips as well. Most Model B from that era (41-45) that went to German or other Axis contracts have full checkered wood w/no border on them, but most anything goes when it comes to B pistols from WW2 yrs..
Get 'em built and out the door,,there's a war going on..

Note the cut out on the frame left side where the slide stop pokes through into the mag well (last pic). At the extreme top of that cut out is a break in the metal. That separation or break is supposed to be there. It's part of the manf process and not a manf defect as so many have tried to say.

The tiny single letter stampings on some small parts like that firing pin plate are inspector marks and we'll probably never know who or what they were assigned to.

Nice overall condition,,makes me want to go get one again just because.

Congrats!

2152hq, thanks for clearing all that up. What causes the extractor and triggers to turn this color? I know I read something somewhere but can't find it.

Also, does this pistol look refinished?

These are all excellent condition original finish. Got 'em back when the gettin' was good.

Nazi Contract Lot 14 delivered July 26 1943, WaA251 marked.




Nazi Contract Lot 20 delivered June 7 1944, not marked, returned back to Star. These were later used by the West German Police and are marked LPN on the gripstrap(Landes-Polizei-Niedersachsen). Small parts are serialed to the pistol.



Postwar manufacture for West German Police and also marked LPN on the gripstrap. All small parts numbered to the pistol.

Those are really sweet and the history behind them, amazing.

Are those original grips for that model and time period?

The serialized small parts remind me of the Norwegian 1911s.

Note the cut out on the frame left side where the slide stop pokes through into the mag well (last pic). At the extreme top of that cut out is a break in the metal. That separation or break is supposed to be there. It's part of the manf process and not a manf defect as so many have tried to say.


That was present on a late commercial Mod. B I had, made about 1983. Interarms told me that was a stress reliever cut, right where many 1911 style pistols have the frame break, usually after firing many rounds. With the cut, a break is much less likely. The gun is already pre-broken, in a sense, but precisely.


The gun I had on loan for an article was reliable and quite accurate, but the slide bluing was turning a plum color, so I returned it.


Those late Star 9mm's were sound guns, and many were used by South Africa, due to the difficulty of obtaining Brownings under the UN arms embargo. That ended with white rule, about 1995. However, both Beretta and Star seem to have ignored that embargo (?), as so many of their guns were there, and the nation made a good copy of the Beretta M92F and the Walther P-1.

Anyone know why on some of the older Stars, the triggers and extractors turn that sort of rust color but it's not really rust? I read what it is somewhere, but can't remember.

Other than Gunbroker, are there any other sources for Star Model B magazines?

The extractors were heat treated (drawn back) to a 'straw' color,,around 450*F. That leaves them hard enough to do their job but takes the brittle nature out of the steel. Same technique as used on several of the small parts on the Luger pistol. The color is a result of the heat treat process and a very nice effect. But over time, that dark straw yellow color can turn to a darker brown just from humidity, handling and other mostly long term effects,,collectors call it 'patina'. Same thing happens to bluing sometimes as it starts to turn brown.
The triggers on most Star pistols were finished 'in the white',,just polished metal. No protective finish (the above does offer a little,,very little of an oxide coating to the steel but is fragile at best).
The trigger from use gets quickly discolored from ordinary fingerprint touching the clean steel and not being wiped off all the time. Can't help not touching the trigger!.
A few Star pistols I've seen had the trigger straw colored like the extractor,,but that color quickly worn away again from use. The steel surface underneath then a brown color from the same process as before.

Magazines,,Star B (and A) are getting tougher to find. Model A will fit Model B,,the only difference is the feed lips on a Model B are a little longer to hold the shorter length 9mmLuger cart in place while feeding.
But Model A magazines seemed to work ok on Model A conversions 9mmLargo to 9mm Luger when that was all the rage a number of years back.
No ID on the mags to tell the difference anyway that I can remember.
The early style mags is what you need,,narrow floorplate. Later style with a wide flat floor plate that sits on and not into the frame came about in the late 50's if I'm not mistaken.
If the pistol is not notched at the front of the mag well for the floor plate lip,,it takes the later wide floorplate style.

AmmoClip used to have a lot of original and repro Star B mags,,now just checking I see they are all out of stock .
Star B 9mm para magazine B Super 9mm Largo
Sarco was another source of Star A and B ,magazines (and pistols),,don't know what they have anymore though.
I don't know what the going price is for the early ones is. The auctions pretty much drive the market.

Yeah, I knew that. I was just typing away and not thinking.

I had a Colt Mustang + and a Colt Pony. Sold both. Bought something else that I wanted. Actually, I am unsure about the Pony but I am fairly certain my 1932 .38-44 HD was the replacement gun, or one of them, because I got way more money for the Mustang+ than I paid for the HD.

I'll never sell the Star Model S. I always loved it and it is soooo accurate!

I promise a picture soon!

2152hq, Thanks for answering all my questions. I assume I should just leave that trigger and the extractor like it is and try not to remove the color?

2152hq, Just to clarify something about the mags. I have the narrow magazine that fits flush. Are you saying that the wide mags will not fit and work in my model B?

Through personal observation via pics and firsthand all of the Nazi era Star Model B's had the bordered with diamond grips. All of the post war pistols designated for W German police had fully checkered grips. The Nazi pistols had lanyard rings thus requiring a cut out on the grips. I have not seen any post war police pistols with lanyard rings. The Antaris book may have more of an explanation on this, I just haven't gotten around to picking that book up.

CZU, I appreciate that information. I have cleaned these up a bit and am applying 50/50 coatings of BLO and Citrus Solvent. Same mix I use on my Carbines. It maintains the darker worn shade that they had when I got the pistol but allows the grain and texture of the grips to show a little more with the oil, grime, etc removed. I'll post a pic when I get it finished.

Awesome thread, folks! Sometimes Stars pop up at our LGS.
They don't sit in the case too long.