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Old 03-09-2017, 04:18 AM
marathonrunner marathonrunner is offline
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Default daniel defence DD5v1 would you spend $3000?

I was looking at this rifle at a gun store and it was certainly incredibly well built and very stout. However, I did a google search and found a lot of hits about feeding issues. I have read that many AR10's have issues with reliability is that true?

That said, to spend $3000 on one rifle seems ridiculous. I can get a BCM for probably $1700 . Anyway your thoughts.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:02 AM
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Gunbroker has several auctions for that gun at about $500 cheaper.
So if I were going to get one, I wouldn't pay full msrp when street price is that much lower.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:32 AM
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No way I'd buy a scar 17
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:03 AM
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In a word NO! Lots of fine AR's for much less and unless you are going to battle it is a profound waste of money. Have you considered the S&W?
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:06 AM
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Not unless it alchemy'd the spent brass into gold. I just couldn't spend 3 grand on any kind of semi auto AR.
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Old 03-09-2017, 06:05 PM
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Not unless it alchemy'd the spent brass into gold. I just couldn't spend 3 grand on any kind of semi auto AR.
This is so very true! I would be a fool to waste so much. I am looking at Windham's .308 with the free floated barrel
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:04 PM
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Please remember that its generally accepted that you get what you pay for.
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Old 03-09-2017, 07:39 PM
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Nope. Other than my Colt 6920 all mine are self built mutts that cost $500-600 to put together. Even the 6920 was only $850.
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Old 03-09-2017, 08:47 PM
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That said, to spend $3000 on one rifle seems ridiculous. I can get a BCM for probably $1700 . Anyway your thoughts.
Because I can't afford to pay that plus I can build my own (and if I can do it, anyone can) using the parts I prefer, there's no way that I can see paying that much but I'm no expert.
Maybe apples to oranges but I've seen new DPMS AR10's for under $700.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:32 PM
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Ask yourself, "is it twice to three times as good as" (insert name here).

Reminds me of the Tesla. Pathetic customer satisfaction numbers, amazing "would buy again" numbers.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:43 PM
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I'd be very disappointed after dropping 3K only to watch my $400 Savage .308 shoot circles around it.
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Old 03-09-2017, 09:58 PM
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My first "put together" (someone in another thread didn't like the term build), was in the $1600-$1800 bracket. The last two, around $1400 without optics. I owned a $800 dollar AR which worked just fine. But these three are even better. Just depends on what you want to spend for triggers, barrels, and the rest of components. There's even a lot of difference in free float rails, when it comes to machining, looks & finish.

In reality, sometimes twice is much, really is worth twice as much. As to three times, I don't know, since I haven't handled one.
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:11 PM
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Let's put it this way.

Rossi/Taurus/Windicator - S&W/Colt
DPMS/Windham - DD/BCM/KAC


Both shoot 38spl/357. So thus both are equal! Correct? What does S&W do that a Charter Arms doesn't?


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Old 03-10-2017, 12:51 AM
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Thanks for all the input guys! Tell me if you agree with this, but someone told me getting a .308 in a 16" barrel in an AR platform makes no sense for close quarters as the kick, and over penatration would make it less than ideal. also been told the best close quarters would be the 16" 5.56 which would be still better than a .45 Was also told if you are going to get a .308 then make sure it is a 20" barrel.

The Daniel Defense DD for $3000 is amazingly cool looking but I still can't justify it's hefty price tag when I can get Windham .308 with a midwest floated handguard for $1250 including tax. No is not as stout as the DD but I can get two Windham's for the price of one DD .308
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:14 AM
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Thanks for all the input guys! Tell me if you agree with this, but someone told me getting a .308 in a 16" barrel in an AR platform makes no sense for close quarters as the kick, and over penatration would make it less than ideal. also been told the best close quarters would be the 16" 5.56 which would be still better than a .45 Was also told if you are going to get a .308 then make sure it is a 20" barrel.

The Daniel Defense DD for $3000 is amazingly cool looking but I still can't justify it's hefty price tag when I can get Windham .308 with a midwest floated handguard for $1250 including tax. No is not as stout as the DD but I can get two Windham's for the price of one DD .308
Looking for the best "close quarters" defense weapon? Look for a shotgun instead of an AR. Nothing is more effective in close quarters as a large gauge repeating shotgun.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:40 AM
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Looking for the best "close quarters" defense weapon? Look for a shotgun instead of an AR. Nothing is more effective in close quarters as a large gauge repeating shotgun.
Which is why all SWAT/SRT members carry shotguns!

No matter how you slice it a SD 556 round has less recoil, more energy and more ammo. Unless youre shooting point blank or slugs
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:59 AM
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Thanks for all the input guys! Tell me if you agree with this, but someone told me getting a .308 in a 16" barrel in an AR platform makes no sense for close quarters as the kick, and over penatration would make it less than ideal. also been told the best close quarters would be the 16" 5.56 which would be still better than a .45 Was also told if you are going to get a .308 then make sure it is a 20" barrel.

The Daniel Defense DD for $3000 is amazingly cool looking but I still can't justify it's hefty price tag when I can get Windham .308 with a midwest floated handguard for $1250 including tax. No is not as stout as the DD but I can get two Windham's for the price of one DD .308
I haven't spent one cent on AR's with the idea of what's best for close quarters. I've spent a lot of money on them, because I have a lot of fun with them in the desert. I also like the idea of cool looking ARs. To me, they are one of several hobbies, along with reloads of .223 & 300 Blackout.

Unless there is a Zombie attack, with ample warning, I won't have time to dig the ARs out of their cases. I do my my shotgun, 45's, 9mms, etc. , if required.
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Old 03-11-2017, 01:14 AM
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I wasn't so scared before because I knew the chance of me actually buying the DD5V1 was slim and none, but now I am really thinking of possibly just possibly breaking out my credit card. But then again I can get a Windham RS16 with a Midwest Free Float that is not as good, but very reliable. I can pick that up for $1250. It seems crazy to spend $280 on a rifle that is simply overkill
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Old 03-11-2017, 01:53 AM
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look at this video of a DD5V1 fail. The person dropped it on the ground and the 4 bolts that attach the free floated handguard shifted and caused the rail to be out of alignment with reciever. There were other problems as well. Good thing I did not buy this rifle. also this rifle had issues with trigger failing to reset. Think I will stick to Windham's, Colts, and believe it or not I love my Sport ii. I would be definitely be bummed out had I spent 3K on a rifle and then find out it had many issues. I am also thankful I was here kicking this question around and pondering before making a rash decision. I understand the vast majority of DD owners are not going to drop their DD on the ground, but you don't see ven rifles like Bushmaster or DPMS doing this stuff.

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Old 03-11-2017, 08:26 AM
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look at this video of a DD5V1 fail. The person dropped it on the ground and the 4 bolts that attach the free floated handguard shifted and caused the rail to be out of alignment with reciever. There were other problems as well. Good thing I did not buy this rifle. also this rifle had issues with trigger failing to reset. Think I will stick to Windham's, Colts, and believe it or not I love my Sport ii. I would be definitely be bummed out had I spent 3K on a rifle and then find out it had many issues. I am also thankful I was here kicking this question around and pondering before making a rash decision. I understand the vast majority of DD owners are not going to drop their DD on the ground, but you don't see ven rifles like Bushmaster or DPMS doing this stuff. Daniel Defense AR15, 2500 Rds Later: Died in my Arms... - YouTube
You don't know Rob do you? He's an ex Polish SF who does AK centric courses. His standard is all rifles have to be AK tough surviving Stalingrad. Some AKs he tests fail, I don't see a Bushmaster surviving he's tests either

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Old 03-11-2017, 09:09 AM
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You don't know Rob do you? He's an ex Polish SF who does AK centric courses. His standard is all rifles have to be AK tough surviving Stalingrad. Some AKs he tests fail, I don't see a Bushmaster surviving he's tests either

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lol....but if you watch this video, he didn't drop it from a height that was no higher than shoulder high from the ground. I have seen tests where the AR15 was thrown much higher. But after he put locktite on the screws, then the hand guard did not shift but still for a $3K rifle, I don't think it is my job to add locktite
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:11 AM
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The knows quality of Bushmaster and Windham. I'd rather deal with a loctite screw

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Old 03-11-2017, 09:34 AM
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No, I would not spend $3,000.00 for DD; however, I did spend $3000.00 on a LMT308MWS. Is it as accurate as my Ruger Precision Rifle, not quite; however, I can ring steel at 1K yards with it. Shooting the 308 AR is more difficult than shooting a bolt action.

Do some 308 ARs have issues with ammunition, Yes. But, they can be resolved. Sometimes it is the ammunition and other times the rifle. Again the 308 AR is not as forgiving as a bolt action.

Won't give up my LMT. It loves 168 grain A-Max.
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Old 03-11-2017, 12:15 PM
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My current and only AR is a Windham 7.62x39mm SRC. I've had many, including Colts and I'll say that the quality of Windham is as good or better than any of the others I've owned.

If you are wanting a 30 caliber medium range rifle, look no further than the x39mm. Combat Arms featured a super article on the 7.62x39mm round last July. I was already a believer.

The title of the article about says it all. Great read if you can find it.
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Old 03-11-2017, 12:36 PM
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I've always liked the Daniel Defense method of attaching the rail. I think it's superior to other systems, where most of the pressure concentrates on the barrel nut. However, that long Daniel free float barrel has the advantage of taking pressure off the barrel, which does help with accuracy, as free floats do. A disadvantage, is if you're purposely going to drop it on concrete. It's a long arm lever out there, which will put much more pressure on it's attachment point. I don't put expensive ARs together, with the idea of torture tests. It would be like buying an expensive & good looking motorcycle, only to see how well it holds up skidding on it's side.
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Old 03-11-2017, 12:43 PM
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My current and only AR is a Windham 7.62x39mm SRC. I've had many, including Colts and I'll say that the quality of Windham is as good or better than any of the others I've owned.

If you are wanting a 30 caliber medium range rifle, look no further than the x39mm. Combat Arms featured a super article on the 7.62x39mm round last July. I was already a believer.

I agree on the Windham. I think they're excellent quality for the price point. With my later ARs, I did go with those expensive triggers, and a few other features, but that Windham held up, and never failed. I wouldn't put Windhams, and current Bushmasters in the same catagory, as one reply did. I do know the Windham/Bushmaster story. It's why I bought the Windham, after ample research, for my first AR.
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Old 03-11-2017, 01:52 PM
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I agree on the Windham. I think they're excellent quality for the price point. With my later ARs, I did go with those expensive triggers, and a few other features, but that Windham held up, and never failed. I wouldn't put Windhams, and current Bushmasters in the same catagory, as one reply did. I do know the Windham/Bushmaster story. It's why I bought the Windham, after ample research, for my first AR.
About a year or two ago I purchased a Bushmaster on an LE discount for less than half of MSRP. I thought it was too good to pass up. Well, you know what they say about deals too good to pass up. Biggest piece of junk I had ever seen. Promptly sold it unfired for what I paid.

I put a Geissele Tricon (full power hammer spring) in the x39mm. About the only thing it needed.
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Old 03-11-2017, 02:03 PM
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About a year or two ago I purchased a Bushmaster on an LE discount for less than half of MSRP. I thought it was too good to pass up. Well, you know what they say about deals too good to pass up. Biggest piece of junk I had ever seen. Promptly sold it unfired for what I paid.

I also put a Geissele Tricon (full power hammer spring) in the x39mm. About the only thing it needed.
Klyde
Good to know. I didn't look at the "new" Bushmaster, because of other numerous reports I had read about. But no first hand experience. I have put Geissele's in the last three ARs, I've put together. Good triggers!
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:34 PM
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I agree on the Windham. I think they're excellent quality for the price point. With my later ARs, I did go with those expensive triggers, and a few other features, but that Windham held up, and never failed. I wouldn't put Windhams, and current Bushmasters in the same catagory, as one reply did. I do know the Windham/Bushmaster story. It's why I bought the Windham, after ample research, for my first AR.
My Windham's are very good and have never jammed or malfunctioned. I shot softpoint and FMJ and never has it double fed, failure to eject, or failure to anything. It's a solid rifle and I absolutely love them.
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Old 03-11-2017, 09:49 PM
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This may not be as good as a $3,000 rifle and may not be as effective as a .308 round, but my Sport II I only paid $499 and it has worked every bit as good as my Colt LE6940. I am also left to wonder why do I need a 16" .308? The .308 is a rifle cartridge and designed for long distance, not for close quarters. I think with a soft point, the 5.56 for close quarters could be just as effective.
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Old 03-13-2017, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
This may not be as good as a $3,000 rifle and may not be as effective as a .308 round, but my Sport II I only paid $499 and it has worked every bit as good as my Colt LE6940. I am also left to wonder why do I need a 16" .308? The .308 is a rifle cartridge and designed for long distance, not for close quarters. I think with a soft point, the 5.56 for close quarters could be just as effective.
Given the conditions you describe, then the 5.56 is effective. However, the 223/5.56 is a 550 meter round and the 308/7.62X51 is an 800 meter round. At 500 yards the 223 has a velocity of 1598 FPS and energy of 312 ft/lbs. The 308 at 500 yards has a velocity of 1839 FPS and energy of 1261 ft/lbs.

Yes the 308 AR costs more, weighs more and is less maneuverable but if I can only have one rifle then I will take the LMT308MWS over my DD M4V5. However, if I was stuck with the DD M4V5 I would make do.
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Old 03-13-2017, 08:47 AM
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Interesting thread. In my experience there is no comparison in the stopping power of .308 versus 5.56 but if I needed a .308 battle rifle I don't think it would be an AR type for 3k.
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Old 03-13-2017, 09:18 AM
44wheelman 44wheelman is offline
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I'm waiting for my ffl brother to tell me when the savage msr 10 are in stock. it's a no brainier for me, cause I can get it for cost, but even at $1300 street price, it's not too shabby.......just hope it lives up to the standards of my fp110.
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Old 03-13-2017, 04:33 PM
CRT2 CRT2 is offline
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Interesting thread. In my experience there is no comparison in the stopping power of .308 versus 5.56 but if I needed a .308 battle rifle I don't think it would be an AR type for 3k.
Would an M14 clone suffice?
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  #35  
Old 03-17-2017, 11:32 PM
marathonrunner marathonrunner is offline
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Would an M14 clone suffice?
barrel is way too long and too heavy
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  #36  
Old 03-18-2017, 06:49 AM
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Would an M14 clone suffice?
I believe the military dug them out of retirement when they needed a serious rifle. I started out with one many years ago and my clone does a pretty good job when I do my part.
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Old 03-18-2017, 10:35 AM
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Would an M14 clone suffice?
It suffices for me. Call me a stick in the mud geezer, but I never quite forgave Uncle Sam for taking away my M14 and giving me a M16 that had a dismal out-of-the-gate track record. The stable now has a M1A that suits all of my needs except for economy of ammunition.
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Old 03-18-2017, 01:57 PM
gregintenn gregintenn is offline
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For only one?????

No.
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Old 03-18-2017, 03:36 PM
dave1918a2 dave1918a2 is offline
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Being one of the old geezers on here I think I will stick with My Garand. I have some bandoliers and don't think I'll need 55000 rounds per kill as in SEA.
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Old 03-18-2017, 04:25 PM
Whitwabit Whitwabit is offline
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Please remember that its generally accepted that you get what you pay for.
That was more true in the past then now .. I'm afraid many times your buying a name and past reputation that may or not sill be valid ..
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:19 PM
Brasky Brasky is offline
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Originally Posted by marathonrunner View Post
look at this video of a DD5V1 fail. The person dropped it on the ground and the 4 bolts that attach the free floated handguard shifted and caused the rail to be out of alignment with reciever. There were other problems as well. Good thing I did not buy this rifle. also this rifle had issues with trigger failing to reset. Think I will stick to Windham's, Colts, and believe it or not I love my Sport ii. I would be definitely be bummed out had I spent 3K on a rifle and then find out it had many issues. I am also thankful I was here kicking this question around and pondering before making a rash decision. I understand the vast majority of DD owners are not going to drop their DD on the ground, but you don't see ven rifles like Bushmaster or DPMS doing this stuff. Daniel Defense AR15, 2500 Rds Later: Died in my Arms... - YouTube
The fact that a DDI performed worse in that test than a $500 psa AR says worlds to me about the quality. Some day people will realize more money does not equal more quality

I'll stick to my AKs that are built in military factories with dozens of years of building firearms to survive rather than for profit. Where else can you get a rifle that lasts 50,000+ rounds with only spring changes?
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Old 03-18-2017, 05:22 PM
Brasky Brasky is offline
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You don't know Rob do you? He's an ex Polish SF who does AK centric courses. His standard is all rifles have to be AK tough surviving Stalingrad. Some AKs he tests fail, I don't see a Bushmaster surviving he's tests either

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A $500 PSA ar had less issues than that DDI. A $600 Wasr survived it without blinking

Some people want the smoothest, most accurate, bench shooter rifle that money can buy. Others like me want something that will work when needed and with whatever ammo is at hand
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  #43  
Old 03-18-2017, 06:34 PM
marathonrunner marathonrunner is offline
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A $500 PSA ar had less issues than that DDI. A $600 Wasr survived it without blinking

Some people want the smoothest, most accurate, bench shooter rifle that money can buy. Others like me want something that will work when needed and with whatever ammo is at hand
well this Daniel Defense is good for a precision rifle but it was not meant to be dropped or used as a battle rifle I guess. I am glad I passed on this. I was also looking at the SCAR17S but after reading posts how the magwell cracks, barrel is out of alignment no thanks
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Old 03-18-2017, 07:00 PM
LAA LAA is offline
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Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
A $500 PSA ar had less issues than that DDI. A $600 Wasr survived it without blinking

Some people want the smoothest, most accurate, bench shooter rifle that money can buy. Others like me want something that will work when needed and with whatever ammo is at hand
Either tight tolerances for accuracy, or loose, to fill with sand and still work. I prefer the accuracy, good looking rails, and that kind of stuff. My ARs most likely won't go into battle anytime soon. They're too expensive to throw at concrete pads. In the meantime, I'll just take them on my weekly runs to the desert, to maintain target proficiency. That's why I own them.

Note: I've assembled three ARs from many different part producers. They're more on the high end, cost wise. However, they all work, all the time. Not a failure yet (see note below). If worse comes to worse, I'll just try not to do drop tests on concrete, prior to use.

Note below: I didn't expect certain 300 Blackout sub-sonic loads to fully cycle the rifle, without a suppressor. They didn't.
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  #45  
Old 03-19-2017, 03:24 AM
marathonrunner marathonrunner is offline
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Either tight tolerances for accuracy, or loose, to fill with sand and still work. I prefer the accuracy, good looking rails, and that kind of stuff. My ARs most likely won't go into battle anytime soon. They're too expensive to throw at concrete pads. In the meantime, I'll just take them on my weekly runs to the desert, to maintain target proficiency. That's why I own them.

Note: I've assembled three ARs from many different part producers. They're more on the high end, cost wise. However, they all work, all the time. Not a failure yet (see note below). If worse comes to worse, I'll just try not to do drop tests on concrete, prior to use.

Note below: I didn't expect certain 300 Blackout sub-sonic loads to fully cycle the rifle, without a suppressor. They didn't.
I feel the same way, do i want a precision or battle rifle etc.. I am contemplating buying a AR15 upper that has a 20" barrel because it has been revealed to me that is the optimal length
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:22 AM
LAA LAA is offline
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I feel the same way, do i want a precision or battle rifle etc.. I am contemplating buying a AR15 upper that has a 20" barrel because it has been revealed to me that is the optimal length
The Windham would have been my battle rifle, even though I still had no plans to throw it against concrete to break it in...

Only thing I changed on it, was to a quad rail (non floating) that were popular back then. Have sold it. One of my ARs has an 18" .223 Wylde barrel. I might go 20" on the next.
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Old 03-19-2017, 03:58 PM
Brasky Brasky is offline
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The Windham would have been my battle rifle, even though I still had no plans to throw it against concrete to break it in...

Only thing I changed on it, was to a quad rail (non floating) that were popular back then. Have sold it. One of my ARs has an 18" .223 Wylde barrel. I might go 20" on the next.
Throwing against the concrete simulates dropping it, something that could easily happen in a high stress situation where you lose balance
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  #48  
Old 03-19-2017, 04:22 PM
LAA LAA is offline
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Throwing against the concrete simulates dropping it, something that could easily happen in a high stress situation where you lose balance
Yes, I lost balance on a ladder once, and it was four months of high stress recovery. Other than that, I figure the short hand guard on the Windham, would hold up better than some of the finely machined, and long, free float rails, we've got these days. That's what is really demonstrated in the video, where the DD rail shifts. I was also in a high stress situation today, with my new 300 Blackout AR. Traveled 70 miles to the desert, setup targets, the long distant spotting scope, and was ready to go. Left the ammo box home....
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Old 03-19-2017, 09:56 PM
marathonrunner marathonrunner is offline
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Yes, I lost balance on a ladder once, and it was four months of high stress recovery. Other than that, I figure the short hand guard on the Windham, would hold up better than some of the finely machined, and long, free float rails, we've got these days. That's what is really demonstrated in the video, where the DD rail shifts. I was also in a high stress situation today, with my new 300 Blackout AR. Traveled 70 miles to the desert, setup targets, the long distant spotting scope, and was ready to go. Left the ammo box home....
this is why if feel keeping things simple is the best. The more weight you add, the more chance of something going wrong. how did you fall off the ladder?
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Old 03-19-2017, 10:25 PM
TomTownUSA TomTownUSA is offline
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I purchased a Daniel Defense complete upper and a cheaper fully populated lower... I then purchased a quality single stage AR trigger and installed that in the cheap lower... RESULT, I have a very fine rifle at less than half the price of an ALL Dan Def.
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