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Old 03-13-2017, 12:55 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
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Hi everyone! I got my Lyman great plains rifle in .54 cal caplock out to do some shooting:



Shot very nicely! No problems with ignition in the twenty three shots I've fired so far. I'm using Remington #10 caps on the factory nipple. I was using Goex 3Fg powder since that's what I had on hand and used it to fill my horn with. But the other day I stopped by Graf and Sons in Mexico, Missouri and picked up my order of eight cans of black powder, mostly Graf's brand 2Fg and some 3Fg as well as some Goex-made Old Eynsford 2Fg which is a high-grade sporting powder comparable to Swiss powder.

This is my first percussion black powder rifle and I'm so glad to own it. Very fun to shoot. As a native of St. Louis, it is very neat to own a gun that is based on the authentic J&S Hawken rifles made their in the mid 19th century. I've found that I prefer to load from horn and pouch as it was done back then. If you've never tried it, you owe it to yourself to get a hunting pouch and a powder horn. It's very fun. Now all I've got to do is work on my load development to find the sweet spot for target shooting as well as a potent yet accurate hunting load for deer and boar. I plan to hunt this fall with this rifle.

Guys it's getting warmer out, or at least will be getting warmer soon. Don't forget to pull out the black powder guns and show them some love.

Last edited by JayFramer; 03-13-2017 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:54 PM
ameridaddy ameridaddy is offline
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That' s a pretty thing. Educate me - how do you control quantity of powder from a horn?
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Old 03-13-2017, 01:59 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
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Originally Posted by ameridaddy View Post
That' s a pretty thing. Educate me - how do you control quantity of powder from a horn?
I've got an adjustable brass powder measure inside my shooting pouch that you can set from 10 to 120 grains of powder:



You can use about 30 grains of powder to hunt rabbits or even squirrel (with a good backstop) and 120 grains to hunt up to and including black bears and moose. My pouch also includes round balls, cleaning patches, shooting patches, a tool kit containing items to clean and service the rifle, oil bottle, cap magazine, and short starter.

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Old 03-13-2017, 02:24 PM
dougb1946 dougb1946 is offline
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It's possible to get a horn with a spout that holds a measured amount. My charcoal burner is a TC Hawkins .50. Embarrassing to shoot, cause you know that any miss is your fault. The guns like to put one hole in the target.

Black powder lesson 1) Exhale after the shot. Mine has to wait. Got 6" of fresh snow on the ground.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:40 PM
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It is true that some horns come with an attached powder measure spout and that is totally fine if you make sure to use a separate measure as a "middle man" before pouring it into the bore.

I'll use this opportunity to say that one should never just pour from a flask or horn directly into the muzzle. A loose spark remaining in the bore can ignite the powder and this will go up into the powder container and it will explode.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:52 PM
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Nice to see the Lyman. I have the 50 cal flintlock version. I also have "a few" other front stuffers as well. I haven't shot them much lately, but they all get an annual cleaning for good measure. I have several cans of Goex FF, FFF, and even a can of FFFF for the flintlocks. I mostly for hunting have gone to 777. It is so super clean that I really like it. I too use an adjustable powder measure. One from 20-120 and another that goes to 150.
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Old 03-13-2017, 02:58 PM
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Questions about some muzzle loaders.

I have 3 percussion rifles (all originals AFAIK).





The top one is a heavy barrel side hammer (mule-ear) rifle of .36 (.375) caliber. I have traced the maker ("C. Miller") to upper New York in the 1850-1870 period as making "Heavy Barreled Hunting Rifles". This one is definitely heavy with a 30 1/2" long, 1 1/8th " octagon barrel. One thing that makes me question the "Hunting" bit is that it was made with a false muzzle. Sounds more like a target rifle, however it does not have a set trigger (as such). What it does have is a three notch tumbler. The first notch is the safety or "half-cock" notch. The next one is what I would call a "utility" notch. The trigger pull off of this notch is what one would expect on a non-target type rifle. The third notch gives a very light trigger pull but is not adjustable as is a regular set trigger. The lock appears to be "shop" made, so was C. Miller just experimenting or what?

The second rifle is one I figured was a "squirrel" rifle due to the small caliber (.29), 38" barrel and the double set trigger. I tracked the maker, William Kail, to Tuscarawas County, Ohio in the 1840-1890 period. I have since determined that the the correct nomenclature for it is an "Ohio Half-Stock Percussion Sporting Rifle" (per Flayderman). I figured there was a problem with the lock as the hammer wouldn't cock unless the trigger was "set". Upon examining the lock I found that was only one notch, so it was designed that way. This led me to believe it wasn't a squirrel rifle as there was no way to carry it loaded and primed with it being set on the hair trigger. (Unless you wanted to carry it with the hammer down on the cap...). So it must have been strictly a "target rifle" where you came up to the mark, primed and fired. (I had since acquired another similar rifle with the same lockwork, so it isn't unique...)

The bottom rifle is one I wonder if it would qualify as a Plains Rifle or not. It is .41 caliber with a 32" barrel, 1 1/16th across the flats and weighs in at around 11 lbs. There are no markings of any type other than "warrented" marked on the lockplate. (indicating a "store-bought" lock??) It doesn't have a set trigger, although the trigger looks to be made of brass. (I've read somewhere that this was an indication of a NY made gun.) This one is pretty much of a complete mystery to me..... Any ideas??
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deadin View Post
Questions about some muzzle loaders.

I have 3 percussion rifles (all originals AFAIK).





The top one is a heavy barrel side hammer (mule-ear) rifle of .36 (.375) caliber. I have traced the maker ("C. Miller") to upper New York in the 1850-1870 period as making "Heavy Barreled Hunting Rifles". This one is definitely heavy with a 30 1/2" long, 1 1/8th " octagon barrel. One thing that makes me question the "Hunting" bit is that it was made with a false muzzle. Sounds more like a target rifle, however it does not have a set trigger (as such). What it does have is a three notch tumbler. The first notch is the safety or "half-cock" notch. The next one is what I would call a "utility" notch. The trigger pull off of this notch is what one would expect on a non-target type rifle. The third notch gives a very light trigger pull but is not adjustable as is a regular set trigger. The lock appears to be "shop" made, so was C. Miller just experimenting or what?

The second rifle is one I figured was a "squirrel" rifle due to the small caliber (.29), 38" barrel and the double set trigger. I tracked the maker, William Kail, to Tuscarawas County, Ohio in the 1840-1890 period. I have since determined that the the correct nomenclature for it is an "Ohio Half-Stock Percussion Sporting Rifle" (per Flayderman). I figured there was a problem with the lock as the hammer wouldn't cock unless the trigger was "set". Upon examining the lock I found that was only one notch, so it was designed that way. This led me to believe it wasn't a squirrel rifle as there was no way to carry it loaded and primed with it being set on the hair trigger. (Unless you wanted to carry it with the hammer down on the cap...). So it must have been strictly a "target rifle" where you came up to the mark, primed and fired. (I had since acquired another similar rifle with the same lockwork, so it isn't unique...)

The bottom rifle is one I wonder if it would qualify as a Plains Rifle or not. It is .41 caliber with a 32" barrel, 1 1/16th across the flats and weighs in at around 11 lbs. There are no markings of any type other than "warrented" marked on the lockplate. (indicating a "store-bought" lock??) It doesn't have a set trigger, although the trigger looks to be made of brass. (I've read somewhere that this was an indication of a NY made gun.) This one is pretty much of a complete mystery to me..... Any ideas??
I'm afraid I can't answer your question but those are some GORGEOUS original rifles you have there. Congrats!

I can recommend the best book I know of on the subject that might be helpful to you. If you don't already own this book (and you really should) it is called The Muzzle-Loading Cap Lock Rifle by Ned Roberts. It is a goldmine of info on percussion rifles and one of the best gun books I have ever read in general.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:49 PM
Old Arkansawyer Old Arkansawyer is offline
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I like the Lyman great plains rifle. Built one from a kit back in 76 and also a pistol. Shopped the kits until I found the best looking stock then finished it with Tung oil. I have always shot black powder and patched round balls. Friends and I got into the mountain man thing pretty heavy at that time, buckskins, tomahawks, the whole works.

If you hunt with it, a loading block will cut down on reloading time, just in case you need a 2nd shot.
Good advise above about not charging from horn or flask, a local guy lost some fingers by using a flask.
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Old 03-13-2017, 03:51 PM
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deadin,

Those rifles are "prime doin's and that's plumb center." That's high praise to you flatlanders and porkeaters..

"Old Belcher" here has brought Antelope, Mule Deer, and Elk to the camp fire. It's a reproduction of an 1833 Hawken.

The Lyman Plains Rifle is about as close as you can come to a custom rifle. Fine rifles.

OldArkansawyer,
Did a little skinnin' back about that time too. Was you to the Ronyvoo at Towgowtee Pass?


Shinin' times they was.
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Old 03-13-2017, 05:50 PM
JayFramer JayFramer is offline
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deadin,

Those rifles are "prime doin's and that's plumb center." That's high praise to you flatlanders and porkeaters..

"Old Belcher" here has brought Antelope, Mule Deer, and Elk to the camp fire. It's a reproduction of an 1833 Hawken.

The Lyman Plains Rifle is about as close as you can come to a custom rifle. Fine rifles.

OldArkansawyer,
Did a little skinnin' back about that time too. Was you to the Ronyvoo at Towgowtee Pass?


Shinin' times they was.
Beautiful! I want to make a spiral pattern ramrod for mine soon.
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Old 03-13-2017, 10:15 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is online now
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I've been shooting black powder for almost 50 years, mostly rifle muskets in North-South Skirmish Association competition. I'm currently using a Parker-Hale 1858 Naval rifle.

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Old 03-14-2017, 12:42 AM
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That is a thread to my liking! I have an older Pedersoli Plainsrifle for a few years that is a light, long, and accurrate delight!



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Old 03-14-2017, 05:27 AM
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There is a local guy in Centerburg, Ohio, that sells squirrel tails to a fishing supply. There are 100 tails in a bundle and he delivers 2 to 3 bundles a year. All the squirrels are shot once! in the head with a 31 caliber muzzle loader with flint ignition! This is referred to as "Mans Work!"

Until they built the new High School, you drove past his yard to get to school. He would dry the tails from clothes lines in his back yard, hundreds of tails blowing in the breeze! He never had any problems with break-ins!

Ivan
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Old 03-14-2017, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
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deadin,

Those rifles are "prime doin's and that's plumb center." That's high praise to you flatlanders and porkeaters..

"Old Belcher" here has brought Antelope, Mule Deer, and Elk to the camp fire. It's a reproduction of an 1833 Hawken.

The Lyman Plains Rifle is about as close as you can come to a custom rifle. Fine rifles.

OldArkansawyer,
Did a little skinnin' back about that time too. Was you to the Ronyvoo at Towgowtee Pass?


Shinin' times they was.
Did not make the pass, looks like a good time had by all.
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