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03-25-2017, 05:26 PM
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.45 ACP "Cocked and Locked"
I have always carried my .45 ACP loaded, cocked, and locked.
When not carrying, it has been my practice to unload it and
store it cocked and locked.
I have wondered if my practice causes any wear or weakening
of the spring? I haven't noticed any problem, just wondering.
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Last edited by crazyphil; 04-01-2017 at 04:21 AM.
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03-25-2017, 05:40 PM
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No problems that I am aware of. But I've only been using the 1911-style pistols for about 48 years or so. Loaded, cocked and locked, no question about condition anytime or any place; if you pick it up it is ready to do as John Moses Browning intended that it do.
Best regards.
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03-25-2017, 05:41 PM
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I doubt it. I've had one lt wt commander cocked and locked for many years and each time I shoot it, it functions just fine. it stays loaded in the night stand when i'm not carrying it. lee
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03-25-2017, 05:43 PM
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i have carried two different colts 45 pistols thru the years cocked and locked and i never had a problem. i personally think there would be no spring problems. if there was i would simply replace the spring.years ago i learned how to completely take apart my gov. model except the ejector and a few things like that because there was no reason unless you were replacing them.john
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03-25-2017, 05:46 PM
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cocked and locked
i carried a light weight commander for 30 years on the job cocked and locked all the time, never had a problem.
people used to notice my cocked and locked 45 and ask me if it wasn't dangerous to carry that way, i just replied "only if i pull it out".
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03-25-2017, 05:52 PM
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I doubt it also , even so 1911 springs are easy to replace , get a pistol service pak from Wolff, replace them all and don't look back.
Gary
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03-25-2017, 05:54 PM
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What's the difference? Gun doesn't know if it's stored or carried
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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03-25-2017, 05:59 PM
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the only 2 things that ever wears out any spring no matter what it is in or on is...
A. a defect or flaw in the spring.
B. exercising the spring...constant compression then relaxing of the spring.
leaving it static ....that is compressed 100% of the time...or static "not compressed" won't hurt it.
Last edited by mozeppa; 03-25-2017 at 06:01 PM.
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03-25-2017, 06:19 PM
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By the way, I have a 1918 Colt production "Black Army" pistol that I acquired about 40 years ago complete with WW1 holster, belt, pouches, and 3 original two-tone magazines loaded with FA-18 ammo. All items still work flawlessly, despite apparently having been stored in loaded condition for about 60 years.
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03-25-2017, 06:21 PM
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The thought of it cocked and locked all that time is terrifying!!! Why it could just go off at any moment.........
Randy
PS. Just being sarcastic here...
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03-25-2017, 06:30 PM
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?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronnie gore
i carried a light weight commander for 30 years on the job cocked and locked all the time, never had a problem.
people used to notice my cocked and locked 45 and ask me if it wasn't dangerous to carry that way, i just replied "only if i pull it out".
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I was in court one day, had my jacket off and a person noticed my Commander cocked and locked. She asked me if that wasn't dangerous. I told her it most certainly was , that's why I carried it that way.
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03-25-2017, 07:16 PM
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I look at it this way, the spring is always under some tension. Is that tension weakening it? Probably, but not any significant amount. Likewise keeping the spring under more tension is also weakening it, and perhaps even exponentially. But weakening to the point of failure... highly unlikely. Repeated compression/decompression is what weakens springs. Don't worry about prolonged storage cocked and locked. But if it really bothers you then lower the hammer, doesn't make much difference in an unloaded firearm.
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03-25-2017, 07:47 PM
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I store mine cocked and locked also because the 45 ACP rounds take a bit of wear on the casings when re-chambering the same round over and over again.
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03-25-2017, 08:37 PM
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Folks are nuts with worrying about springs.
Your 1911 can be cocked and locked for the rest of your life and the life of your beneficiary without adverse effect.
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03-25-2017, 09:00 PM
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After my Father passed (15th Cavalry, B Troop) we found a number of GI M1911 magazines that had been fully loaded for 30 plus years. We took then out and fired them. Not one malfunction !
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03-25-2017, 09:19 PM
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Springs are not damaged under or by compression, only by release and extension beyond design. No problem with cocked and locked.
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03-25-2017, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
I have always carried my .45 ACP loaded, cocked, and locked.
When not carrying, it has been my practice to unload it and
store it cocked and locked.
I have wondered it my practice causes any wear or weakening
of the spring? I haven't noticed any problem, just wondering.
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I wouldn't worry about the gun, but I do wonder why you store an unloaded gun cocked.
??
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03-26-2017, 12:24 AM
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The only people who ARE potentially dangerous are the ones who want to "give the spring a break", and so when they get home and put the gun down, they take the safety off and lower the hammer onto a loaded chamber, and then re-cock and lock it when they holster the gun the next time.
That is the only risky maneuver you can do with a SA auto, because that hammer can slip out from under your thumb. I watched it happen to someone who had carried 1911's for decades and got careless. He missed his foot by a couple of inches.
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03-26-2017, 02:05 AM
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John Browning never intended for a 1911 to have the hammer manually lowered with a round in the chamber. People ignore this to their own peril. Do it enough times and, trust me, one of these days that hammer will get away from you. Cocked and locked or hammer down on an empty chamber.
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03-26-2017, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model520Fan
I wouldn't worry about the gun, but I do wonder why you store an unloaded gun cocked.
??
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Safety does not lock with the hammer down. I like it locked.
Therefore always cocked and locked, loaded or unloaded.
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03-26-2017, 05:09 AM
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I just found a quote by Bill Wilson of Wilson Combat:
"Hammer spring (Mainspring) should last about forever, even kept
cocked and locked, but for the minimal cost you might want to replace
it every couple of years for peace of mind. No other component is
under any stress from continuous cocked and locked."
Thanks for the almost 100% agreement. We should all be in Congress.
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03-26-2017, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
Safety does not lock with the hammer down. I like it locked.
Therefore always cocked and locked, loaded or unloaded.
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Thanks! I knew there had to be a reason - I was just having trouble figuring it out on my own.
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03-26-2017, 08:59 AM
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Cocked or down less wear than lowering the hammer or shooting it. Using the spring is what wears them down. That being said ,I never seen a main spring replaced,unless someone cut it down. Cocked and locked is the only way to carry or home defence!
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03-26-2017, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mozeppa
the only 2 things that ever wears out any spring no matter what it is in or on is...
A. a defect or flaw in the spring.
B. exercising the spring...constant compression then relaxing of the spring.
leaving it static ....that is compressed 100% of the time...or static "not compressed" won't hurt it.
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In my humble opinion, you could add
C. Forcing a spring past it's design limits.
Which doesn't happen under normal use.
I leave mine cocked and locked when in storage, just to prove to myself, they can't go off by themselves.
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03-26-2017, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mozeppa
the only 2 things that ever wears out any spring no matter what it is in or on is...
A. a defect or flaw in the spring.
B. exercising the spring...constant compression then relaxing of the spring.
leaving it static ....that is compressed 100% of the time...or static "not compressed" won't hurt it.
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I have seen this in other places, but it is counterintuitive to think that keeping a spring compressed will not cause it to lose its ability to spring back.
My guess is that the rate of change when held static compressed is much less than the change caused by compression/release
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Last edited by bushmaster1313; 03-26-2017 at 03:38 PM.
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03-26-2017, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
Safety does not lock with the hammer down. I like it locked.
Therefore always cocked and locked, loaded or unloaded.
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Can I ask ..... why?
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03-26-2017, 12:42 PM
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If you're talking about the mainspring you shouldn't have any worries. I took my 30 year old Colt 1911 into a reputable local gunsmith recently for a refitting, "tune up". I asked him about the mainspring and he demonstrated to me how little the spring actually moves when the pistol is cocked. Assuming that the spring is good to begin with, it should still be good. It should be noted that he could have sold me a new one and I would have been none the wiser.
Eventually they all need to be replaced, but cocking the pistol will put only nominally more stress on it than when it's "at rest".
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03-26-2017, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vortex360
I store mine cocked and locked also because the 45 ACP rounds take a bit of wear on the casings when re-chambering the same round over and over again.
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I would worry more about bullet setback on a round that is repeatedly chambered...unless you are loading the round directly into the chamber and then closing the slide over it, in which case I'd worry about the extractor. In any case (no pun intended) I don't like to repeatedly rechamber rounds in any pistol (except revolvers.)
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03-26-2017, 03:10 PM
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This cat knows what it means to be "Cocked and Locked"
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Last edited by bushmaster1313; 03-26-2017 at 03:12 PM.
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03-27-2017, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bushmaster1313
This cat knows what it means to be "Cocked and Locked"
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Jeez, you guys
BTW, mine are always c&L'd
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03-28-2017, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BAM-BAM
Can I ask ..... why?
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See #20 above
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03-28-2017, 07:38 AM
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The 1911s I've owned all stayed cocked, one in the chamber with the safety off. If I carried them of course the safety would be on. But as they lay in the drawer, they are ready to go if needed.
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03-28-2017, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Model520Fan
I do wonder why you store an unloaded gun cocked.??
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I guess this better represents my question..... why do you want the safety engage when storing an empty gun???
Not a criticism; just trying it understand/ maybe learn something..... that said I do tend to engage the safety/decocker on my 3rd Gen Smith autos when stored empty to "disengage" the trigger....come to think of it; I tend to store most with the magazine removed..... engaging the magazine disconnect safety.
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03-28-2017, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdw
The 1911s I've owned all stayed cocked, one in the chamber with the safety off. If I carried them of course the safety would be on. But as they lay in the drawer, they are ready to go if needed.
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That sounds like a ND waiting to happen...especially if you are in haste (like someone is breaking in) and you happen to touch the trigger inadvertently as you are trying to pick up the pistol. I would suggest training to make it automatic (muscle memory) to release the thumb safety, once the pistol is in your grasp. That way you have the same operation in effect, whether you are carrying the pistol or removing it from the drawer.
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03-28-2017, 05:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fdw
The 1911s I've owned all stayed cocked, one in the chamber with the safety off. If I carried them of course the safety would be on. But as they lay in the drawer, they are ready to go if needed.
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...now there's an idea...cocked and unlocked...a REALLY BAD idea...
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03-28-2017, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParadiseRoad
...now there's an idea...cocked and unlocked...a REALLY BAD idea...
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I hope there are no kids around. Or grown ups who act like kids.
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03-28-2017, 06:20 PM
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Phil,
I've never had that first problem from leavin' em cocked & locked.
Dave
*
Cocked & Locked, Cocked & Unlocked or Half Cocked w/the Grip Safety Tied Down....
I'd say Ol Ranger Charlie Miller knew which way was up.
This is why I like the 45....
Cocked & Unlocked with the Grip Safety pinned down.
.
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Last edited by keith44spl; 03-28-2017 at 07:04 PM.
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03-28-2017, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GKC
That sounds like a ND waiting to happen...especially if you are in haste (like someone is breaking in) and you happen to touch the trigger inadvertently as you are trying to pick up the pistol. I would suggest training to make it automatic (muscle memory) to release the thumb safety, once the pistol is in your grasp. That way you have the same operation in effect, whether you are carrying the pistol or removing it from the drawer.
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I saw one of the salesmen at the LGS draw and uncock an unloaded 1911 in a single muscle memory motion.
It was obvious he had practiced muchly
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03-28-2017, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl
.
Phil,
I've never had that first problem from leavin' em cocked & locked.
Dave
*
Cocked & Locked, Cocked & Unlocked or Half Cocked w/the Grip Safety Tied Down....
I'd say Ol Ranger Charlie Miller knew which way was up.
This is why I like the 45....
Cocked & Unlocked with the Grip Safety pinned down.
.
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When I said I hope there are no kids around, or grownups who
act like kids, I was referencing fdw's post where he said when
he gets home he puts it in the drawer "ready to go".
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03-28-2017, 09:25 PM
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Chambered, Cocked and Locked is the only way to carry a 1911.
At home it's not chambered she has a loaded 8rd mag nearby. But it's not my home protection gun.
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03-29-2017, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crazyphil
When I said I hope there are no kids around, or grownups who
act like kids, I was referencing fdw's post where he said when
he gets home he puts it in the drawer "ready to go".
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Yeah,
I knew what post you were opining on...
That ol Colt Gov't right thar (in my post above),
has ridden a many a mile with me over the last
forty-something years, we've been to the
big city and saw the elephant together.
I do agree, those 45s that have had the grip safeties deactivated,
some with the trigger guards cut away and be it cocked and locked,
unlocked or half cocked....Are not for children.
But, are only for to bring their bearer back alive.
.
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Last edited by keith44spl; 03-29-2017 at 08:46 AM.
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03-29-2017, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keith44spl
.
Cocked & Unlocked with the Grip Safety pinned down.
.
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I like the strap between the hammer and frame. I've always thought that is a very good "safety". Larry
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03-29-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tops
I like the strap between the hammer and frame. I've always thought that is a very good "safety". Larry
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Larry,
Just as a side note....That brass 'snap' on the front is actually
a rivet, and the safety strap is a thumb-break.
When I was working, and got out to serve a warrant,
if'n I got that ol time feelin', I could push that pistol safety off.
Cause in the 'heat of the moment' a feller could get himself in a jam-up purty easy.
Su Amigo,
Dave
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03-29-2017, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUFF
John Browning never intended for a 1911 to have the hammer manually lowered with a round in the chamber. People ignore this to their own peril. Do it enough times and, trust me, one of these days that hammer will get away from you. Cocked and locked or hammer down on an empty chamber.
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+1 The original design had neither a grip nor thumb safety. These were required modifications demanded by the military. Every time I see that phrase, "Just like John M. Browning intended" I get a headache.
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03-30-2017, 01:49 AM
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Condition One is the only way to carry the 1911.
I do not favor constant re-chambering of a round, so I stopped the nonsense of unloading and reloading a couple of decades ago, instead favoring storage in a secure safe or lock box so that there is no need to unload and re-chamber a round, which can cause serious pressure issues as the bullet "sets back" into the casing. If you do unload and re-chamber more than a couple of times, I suggest you keep a micrometer nearby to test that round and discard it immediately upon ANY bullet set back.
In addition to understanding that Condition One is the only way to carry, understand the following about the 1911:
1. Attempting to lower the hammer onto a loaded chamber should NEVER be done. NEVER carry in Condition Two (hammer down on a loaded chamber). If you insist, it is only a matter of time until you get a very loud surprise when the hammer slips and the gun goes bang if you have not remembered to release the trigger once the hammer is clear of the sear. Hopefully, when that inevitable loud bang happens, the only thing injured is your pride.
2. NEVER carry a 1911 at "half-cock." It is simply NOT safe as the half-cock notch is not designed to withstand much of a blow. I have seen NDs in the holster when the shooter's elbow "whacked" the hammer, which sheared the half-cock engagement, causing the hammer to fall. The 1911 WILL FIRE if the hammer is dropped from the half-cock notch. The real purpose of the half cock notch is simply to arrest the fall of the hammer in the unlikely event of primary sear/notch failure, thereby preventing a discharge.
3. NEVER carry in Condition Three (hammer down on an empty chamber). It takes two hands to put the weapon in a ready state, and this takes too long. Remember, time is of the essence, and in a close in interpersonal conflict, one hand/arm may be busy defending yourself from an attacker or grabbing a loved one.
Finally, in a properly functioning 1911, Condition One is not unsafe. The 1911 has a number of automatic safeties and features, working together making the weapon very safe indeed. Examples include the grip safety, the thumb safety, the disconnector, the firing pin safety (80 Series only), the half-cock notch, and honorable mention to the huge lug on the back of the plate of the thumb safety, which will arrest the hammer in the event of a fall when there is primary sear notch failure, and secondary half-cock notch failure.
As to what JMB intended, most original sources, including the early military manuals, it is directed that the 1911 be placed in Condition One (that terminology is not used, as the Conditions (Zero, One, Two, Three) were coined by Jeff Cooper. Condition Zero is cocked and unlocked, which is quite safe if you do not pull the trigger. Remember, the original design only had the grip safety, which engaged automatically. The extra thumb safety was a military requirement. Back to what JMB intended, keep in mind the grip safety ONLY works when the weapon is cocked, which, apart from the original manuals, pretty well establishes that it was expected that the weapon would be used in Condition One. Condition One is the only reliable way to make the 1911 ready to fire with one hand. Yes, I am aware that there were holsters designed to allow racking of the slide upon withdraw, and that the length of the dust cover allows one to cock the weapon and chamber a round against a hard surface, but you don't always have a convenient hard surface, especially on a horse, which is how the 1911 was originally utilized.
Good luck out there!
Last edited by shawn mccarver; 03-30-2017 at 02:23 AM.
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03-31-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BUFF
John Browning never intended for a 1911 to have the hammer manually lowered with a round in the chamber. People ignore this to their own peril. Do it enough times and, trust me, one of these days that hammer will get away from you. Cocked and locked or hammer down on an empty chamber.
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My FIL was the company armorer for his unit in the mid 1950's in Germany. A Lieutenant was transporting a prisoner to division and drew a pistol from the company armory. The Lt told my FIL to lower the hammer on a chambered round so he could just thumb the hammer back if needed. My FIL reminded the Lt that regs didn't permit the pistol to be carried that way. The Lt said, "that's an order corporal."
My FIL did as ordered and, yep, the hammer slipped at the end of its travel. But he had enough back pressure to slow the hamer down enough that all that happened was a "click". He and the Lt looked at each other and he said, "here you go, sir."
Last edited by spad124; 03-31-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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