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Old 03-30-2017, 09:34 PM
petemacmahon petemacmahon is offline
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Ok, according to the proof marks, it's Spanish. But that is not the Alpha trade mark we all know. The only reference I can find for Alfa is a German company that did not make S&W copies.

I can find no picture of this trademark anywhere on the net.

Any ideas?
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:00 PM
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Japanese or South American ?
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Old 03-30-2017, 10:09 PM
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It's Basque like most S&W copies from the time between the wars. There was and still is a Alfa industrial group in Eibar, the capital of arms manufacture in the Spanish Basque country. They also made S&W copies at one time, if my very limited Spanish is not completely wrong:

"El Grupo empresarial Alfa, es un grupo industrial metalúrgico ubicado en la ciudad guipuzcoana de Éibar en el País Vasco (España)....Los primeros talleres se establecieron en las antiguas instalaciones de Kirikixuanekua y producían revólveres Smith Wesson de calibre 32 y 38...."
(From Spanish wiki)

Last edited by Absalom; 03-30-2017 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:28 AM
petemacmahon petemacmahon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
It's Basque like most S&W copies from the time between the wars. There was and still is a Alfa industrial group in Eibar, the capital of arms manufacture in the Spanish Basque country. They also made S&W copies at one time, if my very limited Spanish is not completely wrong:

"El Grupo empresarial Alfa, es un grupo industrial metalúrgico ubicado en la ciudad guipuzcoana de Éibar en el País Vasco (España)....Los primeros talleres se establecieron en las antiguas instalaciones de Kirikixuanekua y producían revólveres Smith Wesson de calibre 32 y 38...."
(From Spanish wiki)
Yeah, but I'm not so sure you aren't referring to the Alpha we all know and can quickly ID and who's trademark can be found with ease using google image search as attached. This from "Pistols of the World, 3rd Edition":

"ARMERO ESPECIALISTAS (SPAIN)
Armero Especialistas Reunidas, the 'United Arms Specialists' of Eibar, comprised a group of gunsmiths who set out to manufacture an automatic pistol in the early 1920s. They then marketed revolvers made by Orueta Hermanos (q.v.) until in a position to manufacture revolvers of their own.
Operations continued until the Civil War, products being well regarded at that time.
Alfa: The first models, made by Orueta Hermanos. were •32, •38 and •44-calibre copies of the Smith & Wesson No 2 hinged-frame models. The distinctive Alfa mark appeared on the grips. Armero Especialistas subsequently made their own revolvers, electing to produce •38 weapons more or less identical with the Colt Police Positive and the Smith & Wesson Military & Police models. These also bore the Alfa trademark.
They were followed by •22 LR and •32 S&W versions, production continuing until the Civil War. Many guns were exported prior to c.1937.
(NB: Alfa was also the trademark of Adolph Frank of Hamburg, being found on a variety of arms and accessories sold by that firm.)
Type: solid-frame revolver. Calibre: •38. Length overall: 8•86in/225mm. Weight, unladen: 21•3oz/605gm. Barrel: 4•33in/110mm, rifled.
Magazine: six-chamber cylinder."

Even the "Alfa" mentioned in this passage as German only made autos.

I'm still not convinced.
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Old 03-31-2017, 10:57 AM
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I cannot tie the trademark on your gun to anything, but I consider it reasonably likely that the Alfa group which started making revolvers in Eibar and is still in business today is not the same as the one referred to in "Pistols". According to available information, "my" Alfa produced guns until 1925, when the slump in the gun business caused them to shift to sewing machines, and they became a large supplier in Spain. They abandoned guns completely in 1932.

The evidence is circumstantial, and their trademark on the sewing machines does look differently, but the fact that they produced revolvers for only a few years might explain why this appears unknown, unlike the standard known Alfa mark.

Given the fact that you say the proofs are Spanish, I don't think there is reasonable doubt that the gun originated somewhere in the Basque country.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:24 AM
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I have a copy of the German ALFA (Adolph Frank/Hamburg) catalog reprint of 1911 that Guns Digest sold some years back.
In the beginning pages of the catalog (page XIII I believe) there is a picture and statement in the standard catalog 4 languages about the trademarks they used to mark all their goods. "Don't accept any goods with any other trademark, ect,,,"
Anyway,
None of the 4 trade marks shown in the catalog are of the one on the side of the revolver in the OP posting.

I did look thru the catalog itself, the revolvers, and there are the usual Colt & S&W of the day. There were 'System' Colt and others,,meaning foreign copies of the design but no mention of country of mfg nor pics of any of the trademarks of them.
No Spanish ALFA mfg revolvers indentified in the German ALFA catalog that I could see.

Just my casual coffee time observations,,

Last edited by 2152hq; 03-31-2017 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 03-31-2017, 02:32 PM
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I found one old (2009) sale on Gunauction of a gun with the same trademark. There are slight differences in construction.

The seller claims it as indeed "Manufactured by Armero Especialistas Reunidas, located in Eibar Spain, Circa 1920." But he likely googled and copied that from the same sources as everybody else, so it doesn't get us any further.

Alfa Spanish Copy of S&W 38 Special Military & Police For Sale at GunAuction.com - 9083740

One possibility is that there was more than one ALFA trademark used by the gunsmiths cooperating under the umbrella of Armero Especialistas Reunidas. Your quote from "Pistols" is different from what I'm looking at. See snip. It doesn't say "These also bore the Alfa trademark", but actually says "These also bore Alfa trademarks ...", meaning there most likely were different variants. This could simply be one.
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Old 03-31-2017, 10:19 PM
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I think a Czech firm called Alpha also makes revolvers. But think the one shown is Spanish.
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Old 03-31-2017, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Star View Post
I think a Czech firm called Alpha also makes revolvers. But think the one shown is Spanish.
Revolvers, Pistols, Flobert, Gas pistols, Air guns, Handcuffs

I came across references to that and checked. According to their own website, they were founded in 1993. So I think we can eliminate them as suspects .
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