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Old 04-10-2017, 02:34 PM
Casscade Casscade is offline
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Default Walther P1

Is there a model more sought after in the walther p1 line. My local delar has 3 that are in mint condition all German for 450. Thanks.
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Old 04-10-2017, 02:48 PM
k22fan k22fan is offline
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Later P1s have a steel part pressed through the frame so the recoiling parts are not stopped by the aluminum frame itself. I'm not sure that makes them more sought after but it did make their frames hold up longer.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:22 PM
BLACKHAWKNJ BLACKHAWKNJ is offline
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The P-1 will take the 22 conversion unit-won't fit on the steel frame models.
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:38 PM
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It's the first time I've ever handled one, they have a good feel about them though and feel solid. Can modern 9mm be shot through them or no?
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Old 04-10-2017, 03:45 PM
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No clue as to which is more desirable. Probably the one with all correct numbered parts.

Yes you can shoot modern 9mm. Theres not much of a difference although it probably won't work with hollow points

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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Old 04-10-2017, 04:02 PM
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P-1s were designed for German Military cartridges which were hotter than any 9 mm cartridges offered by major U.S. manufacturers prior to +P offerings. That's why the standard relatively low recoil U.S. 9 mm cartridges were problematic in Lugers.

Be warned, P-38s and P-1s have the double action that Jeff Copper wrote so many bad things about. They are not the easiest DA/SA to fire the first shot accurately with. Many modern DA/SA automatics have a better double action pull. Also, there is a blind hole in the bottom of the rear sight for the fining pin safety plunger so only the front sight can be drifted for windage. Supposedly different height front sights were offered to sight in for elevation but good luck finding any.

However, they are an intriguing historical artifact with a reputation for good reliability and accuracy.

Last edited by k22fan; 04-11-2017 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 04-10-2017, 09:47 PM
robvious robvious is offline
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Not so much a model that is more sought after... just closer to original configuration is key to collector value... matching everything... the more correct the better...

this will help with I.D....

Pistol P1 - the Bundeswehr handgun - Part 1

this will help with ammo questions... and hot stuff is not a good thing...

P 38 & PP-PPK Collector Forum

hope this helps...
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:38 PM
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For durability the later version as stated with the strengthening hex cross bolt (visible in the pics above), The later versions also have thicker frame /slide rails as well as white lines on the sites that make aiming easier.

That being said the earlier civilian imports ( Interarms ?) seem to bring more than the X German PD guns imported by Century,
Btw... always check to see that the upper and lower serials match as many were mix matched parts guns.

Another interesting tidbit is the early post war aluminum frame guns are marked P-38 where later guns are marked P-1, interestingly the one in the center pic above says P-38 but is a 1976 gun so very very late for a P-38 marking IIRC.

The weak link in the P-38 (as well as S&W 39-2 / 59 series) is in the safety system which can be inertia fired if dropped.

Also well worn versions have been known to overcome the decocker so that in rare instances decocking the gun on a live round can fire it.
This was changed in the next evolution of its design Walther P-4 and Walther P-5.
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Old 04-10-2017, 10:52 PM
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Are Walther P1s consider S&W guns? They are very cool, and pretty affordable, just like a P38 if you put some of the bakelite grips on it.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
Are Walther P1s consider S&W guns? They are very cool, and pretty affordable, just like a P38 if you put some of the bakelite grips on it.
S&W did not start making Walther PP series pistols until after the P-38/P-1 were superseded by later Walther 9 mm models. I do not consider P-38s or P-1s to be S&Ws.

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Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
[...] The weak link in theP-38 (as well as S&W 39-2 / 59 series) is in the safety system which can be inertia fired if dropped. [...]
While the story of P-38s not having a firing pin safety may never die on the internet, it is wrong. A P-38's firing pin safety plunger and spring seat in a blind hole in the bottom of the rear sight. To verify its presence, with your P-38's safety off, pull the hammer back just far enough to attempt pressing the firing pin forward with a ball point pen. You will find the firing pin blocked. With the slide assembly off and upside down you can demonstrate that the firing pin is blocked until you depress the firing pin safety plunger with a thin object like a ruler. I suppose that if you dropped a cocked P-38 and it landed straight down on its muzzle then the firing pin would be free to move. Is that worrisome?

Last edited by k22fan; 04-11-2017 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 11:54 AM
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Admittedly my memory of the P-38/P-1 safety evolution is a bit fuzzy so best taken with a grain of salt.

Seem to recall reports surfaced of pre war P-38's discharging when decocked prompting an update in design.
The post war P1 manual instructs you to operate the decock lever and lower the hammer with your thumb so perhaps best to employ this technique.

While strictly going from memory will dig the P-38's out of the safe to compare when time allows but recall the P-38 / P-1 safety decocker only locks (and blocks) the firing pin when on safe.

The P-4/P-5 both have a recess cut in the hammer face , when the trigger is reset fwd the firing pin lowers down resting in front of a hole cut in the hammer face lower half, pulling the trigger raises the firing pin assembly back up and back into alignment with the the flat part of the hammer face.
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Old 04-11-2017, 12:26 PM
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I just use my P-38 as a SA , DA trigger isn't the best and I put my thumb on the hammer and ease it down when uncocking , just like you do a 1911. That keeps the wear and tear down on these old pistols.
Gary
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  #13  
Old 04-15-2017, 06:06 PM
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I've got a P1 and it's a fine gun. DA trigger ain't great but SA is just fine. As it's a range gun I really don't worry about the DA....I just shoot it SA all the time.

For me it's got all the history and function of THE original DA/SA pistol (P38) without the added cost of the collectors status of the original pre and war-time P38s.

BE WARNED: The Walther P1 P4 and P5 series (made for the German police) are addictive.

The Walther P4 cured all the problems with the P1 including the crossbolt hex nut as standard, the top of the slide not exploding into pieces if you try to take the rear sights off incorrectly, and the barrel being just a tad smaller.

The P5 is considered a near-work-of-art and you'll pay a premium for it, but what a piece of machinery.

For me, these are either for a collection (like hving one each of every German police-approved pistol: Walther, Sig, H&K) or range guns.

Modern pistols, whether "steel" or plastic, make a lot more sense for home defense or carry. (My HD gun is a full-size Walther 99AS and my primary carry gun is a 99c AS...with Sig 320sc, Shield, and S&W 640 as alternates.)

The P1 is great fun to shoot, an affordable link to history, and at $450 probably a good buy. If I saw one locally here in W. WA I'd probably buy it.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:25 PM
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The like is for the Opinel prop rod.
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Old 04-15-2017, 06:42 PM
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Mine is an earlier post war alloy framed model with the added hex bolt.

It loves Winchester White Box ammo, and for serious use feeds nylclad hollow points just as well.

It is an accurate, dependable service pistol that I keep in the truck, and wear around the place in a flap holster.

It would be a good idea to replace the recoil s springs if you have reason to believe it has been fired a lot.

Edited to correct spelling

Last edited by bulletslap; 04-16-2017 at 11:25 AM.
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:28 PM
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I've always liked the Walther design; they are a bit muzzle light, but one can used to that. The safety aspect... never had it happen to me or anyone I know, but it doesn't hurt to be extra careful when letting that hammer down on a live round.

As for Jeff Cooper's comments on the first shot double-action pull, it's a bit stouter than other guns, but none of them are exactly great. I used to read Jeff Cooper articles in Guns & Ammo in the '60s. Now I wonder why I did that...
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Old 04-15-2017, 07:59 PM
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When I was in the German army in the 1970s, conventional wisdom was that the alloy frame and cast steel slide of the P1 was meant to be good for 5000 rounds. Which was plenty because I'd be surprised if any of ours had more than 50 rounds fired through it in a year. During the Cold War, pistol shooting was just not a priority (When the British Amy officially surplused out the Enfield and Webley .38 in the 1960s, ammo allocations were supposedly down to 2 rounds per gun per year ).

I've owned a couple 1960s and 1970s vintage P1's since they started appearing on the surplus market here. None has cracked or come apart on me, but I only shot them moderately for historical interest. If you're looking for a volume 9mm shooter, a Bundeswehr P1 would not be my first choice, though.

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Old 04-16-2017, 12:04 AM
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My P1 is a '67 mfg IIRC. No hex pin, no 'fat slide', but no complaints about it or problems with it either. It's one of my favorites as a matter of fact. Accurate and easy to carry.
The DA pull isn't all that bad, not something I'd use for slowfire Bullseye at 50yrds, but usable in a hurry for sure at close range which is what it was designed for.

I'd buy another if I felt the need for more, they are still available though prices have climbed in recent years since the overseas supply has dried up. P1 parts are still available from at least a couple sources which is good.
I've stopped shooting my WW2 Walther P38 not wanting to break original parts or worse crack the slide.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:26 AM
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Default Pleasant memories.

About 1985 President Regan signed what is commonly called the gun owners protection act. It allowed importation of military surplus guns for the first time since the 1968 Gun Control Act became law. Among the first few surplus guns to be advertised in the Shotgun News were P-1s. They were $159, less if you bought more than one at a time.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:36 AM
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I have a 1961 made one. No hex bolt or fat slide. Mine is marked P38 actually. It was an interarms surplus import. Actually it was the first handgun I bought when I turned 21. I cannot shoot it anymore because like many early guns, the slide on mine cracked.

If you get one, make sure it has the hex bolt and the fatter slide. These are usually 70's era and later guns. The P38 was discontinued in the mid 90's. The hex bolt insert was a stop gap against the beating the relatively soft alloy frame took.

You can however put a later post war slide assembly on a WW2 era steel frame. Probably the most desirable guns that are post war are the very few steel frame guns Walther made commercially. But expect to pay over a grand for one of those rare ones.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine49guy View Post
The post war P1 manual instructs you to operate the decock lever and lower the hammer with your thumb so perhaps best to employ this technique.

...
German post-war military arms manual ZDV 3/15 "Die Ausbildung mit der Pistole P1 und mit der Maschinenpistole MP2 und MP 2 A 1 does not say anything like that, neither does my German civilian manual. Instead the manuals both go into lengthy descriptions of the safety mechanism and explains that they are absolutely safe.

I shot well over a hundred used and abused P38/P1 pistols when sighting them in in the West German military and never had a safety fail, nor heard of it.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:52 AM
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Walther P38 firing pin block on left.

The P1 had it also (right).
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Old 05-10-2017, 06:29 PM
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A little late to this thread, but I just picked this up at a local shop for $375. 1977 with all the upgrades.

RTG Parts has mags and Holsters for a good price.

And per the ATF, regardless of year of Mfg., these are C&R (except civilian version).
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/cu...14pdf/download


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