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  #51  
Old 05-06-2017, 04:45 PM
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Here's tail-end charlie of the US military handguns, a Liberator. It's supposed to be an uncommon variation with four oil holes instead of three. I fired it a couple of rounds with very low pressure target loads, using a 175 gr bullet. Even so, the recoil was so fierce it was hard to hold onto the pistol. NOT a good idea to shoot these: those seventy year old welds have a tendency to come apart.
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  #52  
Old 05-06-2017, 05:17 PM
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Some US rifles. My Springfield is dated 1922 so isn't really a wartime gun:

Two Remington M 1917s. The top one is original and wears a Kerr NoBuckL sling. The bottom one was rebuilt in Canada for WW II. Canada blued the rebuilds instead of parkerizing them as we did. The bolt and stock are Winchester and the barrel is Eddystone. If you look carefully between the stock and handguard, you can still see a flake of red paint from when they painted a broad red band around the stock to show the rifle was not chambered for the .303 cartridge. I could have wished they had left it alone: the serial number is 1493, but that wasn't a consideration in WWII. It wears a Canadian sling.

A Canadian Ross Mk II. The Mk IIs were reserve weapons in WW I. When Canada shifted from the Ross Mk III to the SMLE, the Mk IIs were surplus. At just about that time the US entered the war and was very short of rifles. Canada sent us a bunch of the Mk IIs for drill rifles. I don't think any ammo came with them. This one has the US Ordnance bomb and the stamping US on the pistol grip. It wears a US sling.

A Smith-Corona M 1903A3.

An M1, note the 'lockbar rear sight'. This M1 is in the configuration of a 1944 year rifle, with among other things, the old style gas cylinder plug.

Scabbard for the M1. Originally intended for mounted troops, it saw the most use as a scabbard for vehicles, notable jeeps..
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  #53  
Old 05-06-2017, 05:32 PM
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Boy, am I using up the bandwidth!! Here are a couple of M1 carbines:

National Postal Meter, mostly post war configuration, with adjustable sight, low wood and bayonet lug, but retains the push button safety. That's a carbine bayonet underneath the rifle.

Saginaw Gear original configuration: flip rear sight, high wood, push button safety and no bayonet lug.

Close-up of the National Postal Meter receiver.

Close up of the Saginaw Gear receiver.

Carbine scabbard. This saw very little use. There was also a web holster with wire attachments to a pistol belt. This was more common but msut have been very cumbersome. I don't have one.
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  #54  
Old 05-06-2017, 05:38 PM
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Hear are my American WW II firearms and a Krag and 1917 Enfield.
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  #55  
Old 05-06-2017, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
You guys have had a lucky escape. I could bore you with pictures of all the subtle Enfield and Mosin variations I have in my safe, but the pictures are on another computer.
I can assure you I won't be bored, particularly with the Enfields.
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Old 05-06-2017, 05:41 PM
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These are my Japanese firearms.
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  #57  
Old 05-06-2017, 06:00 PM
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A few WWI Lugers a DWM AND Erfurt and a Erma S27 k98.
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  #58  
Old 05-06-2017, 07:06 PM
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Those old things are way too old to be useful. Just pack em up and send to me I will dispose of them for you.
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Old 05-06-2017, 10:05 PM
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Switzerland was not a combatant in either World War, but they were ready to defend their country if necessary. Their service rifle in WW II was the K 31 in the 7.5 X 55 caliber, a little shorter and a little fatter than our 30-06. Here is their K 31 rifle, also a picture with the straight-pull action partly open. The cartridges came in a unique card and metal stripper mwhich was color coded to indicate the ytpe of ammo: ball, tracer, etc; the magazine held six rounds. Also shown is a front sight adjuster, possibly the most complex gadget for this one could imagine, and a cartridge belt.
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  #60  
Old 05-06-2017, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CQB27 View Post
Colt 1917 Shipped to "Commander of Springfield Armory, 4 Jan 1918.


S&W 1917 Vintage 1918
Love that snub!
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  #61  
Old 05-06-2017, 10:27 PM
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China was at war with Japan long before we were. China used a huge assortment of imported and domestic weapons. One of the most interesting was a copy of the Mauser C 96 enlarged to take the 45 ACP round made at the Shenxi provincial arsenal..

Two Shenxis, the stock is original, the leather probably not.

The lock work: the lock on top is from a Shenxi, the bottom is from an original Mauser.

Stripper clip with ten 45 ACP rounds.

Table of dates of manufacture. The dates are reckoned from the founding of the Chinese Republic in 1912. See; join the S&W forum and you'll learn to read Chinese.

Date stamping on a Shenxi. the two characters for the date are the third and fourth from the right. This one is dated 18 (1930).
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
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Switzerland was not a combatant in either World War, but they were ready to defend their country if necessary. Their service rifle in WW II was the K 31 in the 7.5 X 55 caliber, a little shorter and a little fatter than our 30-06. Here is their K 31 rifle, also a picture with the straight-pull action partly open. The cartridges came in a unique card and metal stripper; the magazine held six rounds. Also shown is a front sight adjuster, possibly the most complex gadget for this one could imagine, and a cartridge belt.
I have one fitted with a scope. Crazy accurate.
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Old 05-07-2017, 12:47 AM
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Mine wears a scope, too. As you say: crazy accurate. I haven't tried GP 11 in it but have handloaded the 168 gr Sierra MatchKing, and it's more accurate than I can hold off a bench. It came with a set of detachable target sights, and is loads of fun shooting with them.
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  #64  
Old 05-07-2017, 04:39 AM
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They used to be so cheap that I stored the Mausers and the Hakim with MG 08/15 mag in the basement.



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Old 05-07-2017, 07:26 AM
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Here's one of my WW2 German .22 trainers. It was made by Gustloff and was issued to an SA school.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:18 PM
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Austria-Hungary adopted a sraight pull rifle in 1895. It was the culmination of a long series of straight pulls and remained the Austrian service weapon until after World War I when Austria was rearmed with other weapons. The most common version of the M 95 now is the stutzen: a short rifle with sling swivels and fitted for a bayonet. Bulgaria also liked the M 95 and contracted with Austria-Hungary for them. They were made both at Steyr and Budapest; the Budapest ones are considerably scarcer. Here's a Bulgarian contract made by Steyr:

The rifle with bayonet.

Receiver marking.

Side rail marking showing maker and date.

Ammo was in clips that fell out of a hole in the magazine when emptied.

Clips were carried in right and left pouches.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:34 PM
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More on Austrian rifles; the original caliber was 8X50R, the left hand round in the picture. It used a 244 gr round nosed bullet. Despite the '8mm' designation, the bore diameter was around .329". Around 1935 Hungary developed a larger capacity 8X56R round firing a 208 gr spitzer bullet at a higher velocity and giving a much flatter trajectory. Other users of the M 95 followed suit. That's the round on the right. The recoil of the 8X56 in the short, light rifles is 'noticable'.
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Old 05-07-2017, 05:56 PM
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Still more on Austrian rifles. The treaty with Austria-Hungary at the end of WW I was the Treaty of St Germain des Près. It disarmed Austria as Germany had been disarmed. Huge quantities of M 95 rifles went in all directions. The Kingdom of the Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, later Yugoslavia, recieved a large number. Yugoslavia, however, transformed them into rifles chambered for the German military 8X57 rimless round and called this modification the M 95M. This required a new barrel and considerable modification to the magazine. The new extractor was very fragile however, and there are absolutely no replacements if one breaks; I have shot my M 95M some 20 rounds and that's all; I don't work the action very often, either. M 95M rifles are scarce, and mostly in a little worse than NRA boat anchor condition, since they fought the Nazi army for several years in the mountain of Yugoslavia. I've never even heard of one in the condition of mine. Pictures:

Yugoslav M 95M rifle.

Receiver Marking.

Reciever With Clip Guides for Mauser Type Strippers.

Mauser Type Rear Sight.

Magazine Does Not Have a Port for Ejection of the Empty Clip.
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Old 05-07-2017, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
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More on Austrian rifles; the original caliber was 8X50R, the left hand round in the picture. It used a 244 gr round nosed bullet. Despite the '8mm' designation, the bore diameter was around .329". Around 1935 Hungary developed a larger capacity 8X56R round firing a 208 gr spitzer bullet at a higher velocity and giving a much flatter trajectory. That's the round on the right. The recoil of the 8X56 in the short rifles is 'noticable'.
....as in "can I have my Mosin carbine back, please."
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Old 05-07-2017, 06:09 PM
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Here is an article, with great photos, that was written by a friend of mine about my father-in-law's Luger that he brought back from Europe. James Bullock was in Patton's 3rd Army. James was an artillery Staff Sergeant and forward observer. James was a very fine man and one of my heroes.

Guest Post-Luger Bring Back from WWII - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

Thanks for reading and looking at the article.

God bless,
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Last edited by Birdgun; 05-07-2017 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 05-07-2017, 10:25 PM
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I call them Boris (the short one) and Natascha (the tall one):



Boris (1943 Izhevsk M38) and Natasha (1943 Izhevsk M91/30)



And a couple of cans of that to go with it!



And that is a 1924 vintage CCCP stamped 1895 Nagant revolver. Heck of a heavy trigger pull.
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Old 05-07-2017, 11:57 PM
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Quote:
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Here is an article, with great photos, that was written by a friend of mine about my father-in-law's Luger that he brought back from Europe. James Bullock was in Patton's 3rd Army. James was an artillery Staff Sergeant and forward observer. James was a very fine man and one of my heroes.

Guest Post-Luger Bring Back from WWII - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

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God bless,
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This is a military Luger, not a commercial one. Only millitary lugers had the four digit serial number with a letter suffix; commercial ones had the complete serial number. The acceptance stamps are military. The military marking of the year of manufacture on the receiver ring over the chamber hasbbeen ground off, probably after WW I. In the picture of the pistol from the front, note that the thickness of the receiver around the barrel is much greater on the sides than on the top.
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:25 AM
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Wow,

Nice stuff you guys. I have two 1903 Springfield Armory rifles one made in April of 1918 (not shown) and the other one was made in 1930 with a barrel date of 9-44 accompanied by a twenty round 1918 Air Service Magazine for a total of twenty five rounds.

I also have a very sad 1911 .45 ACP 1913 Commercial that the previous owner let rats urinate on the bluing and rusted it in several places. It has never had grips and I wanted to send it to Turnbull for restoration.

I also have an October 17, 1922 "The Never Fail" powered by a .38 SPL Blank for you to view. For those pesky German and Japanese gophers in your Victory Garden.

Best regards

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Old 05-08-2017, 06:33 AM
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Webley Mk IV, I guess they were still in use in WW1
S&W Victory Model .38S&W
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Old 05-08-2017, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
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The military marking of the year of manufacture on the receiver ring over the chamber hasbbeen ground off, probably after WW I.
This is a 1908 DWM, they were not dated.
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Old 05-08-2017, 01:54 PM
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You guys have some neat stuff! The only thing I have that might be considered WWI or WWII is an old 1918 Webley MK VI.
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Old 05-08-2017, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
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This is a 1908 DWM, they were not dated.
Good point! I wonder why someone ground the receiver ring, then.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:13 PM
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Here are some British weapons. First is a Webley Mk VI, dated 1916. It is still chambered for the .455 cartridge; the cylinder has not been shaved to take the 45 ACP with half moon clips. I reload for it; I have about 100 rounds, which is plenty as I don't shoot it that much. Hard to measure the bore diameter as it has seven grooves. I cast bullets from a Lyman mould designed for the 45 Colt when its groove diameter was .454". I shoot the bullets unsized and get good accuracy.

Next is an Enfield No 2 in 38/200 which si the 38 S&W cartridge with a 200 grain bullet. When the bullet was jacketed, the weight was reduced to about 178 grs. I shoot a keith type SWC weighing about 175 grs. The holster is the later drop down model: the first model had a much longer drop.

Next is a S&W British Service Revolver, also in 38/200. This one went to New Zealand and is stamped NZ and a number on the bump in the frame behind the hammer.

Last is a SMLE Mk III*. I have fitted it with a Parker Hale peep sight. The barrel was bad and I got a brand new one, with wax still on the threads, and had Brian Dick, the SMLE guru rebarrel it. Accuracy is still lousy; its groups are about twice as big as my 03-A3's. In WWI, my father was in the 27th Infantry Division, NYNG. It and the 30th Division were grouped into the US Second Corps and given to the British. They wore British uniforms, ate British rations (which he didn't appreciate), were equipped with British kit and carried the SMLE. He didn't think too much of he SMLE; one of his diary entries reads: "Went to the range today. Shot a pretty good score, consideing I was firing a Lee-Enfield".
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:25 PM
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More British weapons, this time the Sten. First picture is the Sten with its sling. It's registered with the BATFE, of course.

Second shows the trigger mechanism housing which was apparently hit with a bullet, my guess is a 45. It still works although the selector switch doesn't and mine is more more or less permanently in full auto mode. It's great fun to shoot, of course, but accuracy, even on a torso sized target is really 'hit or miss' beyond about 20 yards.

Third shows the Sten magazine pouch on the left and a pouch for three of the 50 round magazines for the Navy's Lanchester SMG. The Lanchester mags will fit the Sten.

Fourth and fifth are the early and late model magazine loaders. The later model is not only slimmer and lighter; it also loads the magazines faster.
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Old 05-08-2017, 03:56 PM
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Last is the British MLE Mk I*. Note that it is not 'short'. The bayonet and cartridge pouch are also shown. This one came from New Zealand. There are a lot of MLEs in New Zealand and their history is interesting. New Zealand was regarded by the British War office as the 'red headed step-child' and generally got what nobody else wanted. When they were asked to send a regiment to the Boer War, the troops arrived equipped with .303 caliber single shot Martini-Henrys, the latest thing they had received from the War Office. The British officers in South Africa were horrified and loaned the regiment the latest British rifle, the MLE Mk I* with the understanding the rifles would be returned when the war was over. When the war finally ended, the soldiers were herded onto troopships with their rifles, and when they debarked at Wellington, they were told to vanish into the bush with their rifles. The 'Bloody Poms' were not happy.

This rifle isn't one of these. When World War I started, Canada was equipped with the Ross Mk III, and held the Ross Mk II in reserve. They had quantities of MLEs that were surplus. In 1914, Canada sent a large number of MLEs New Zealand as it was still the standard rifle down there. This one is marked on the buttplate to show it came from Canada. It stayed in service a long time, as the receiver ring is marked HG 9\596. This indicates use by the WW II Home Guard. I don't know what area was numbered '9' but possibly it was Wellington. Anyone have information on this? I also don't know the meaning of the two gray-green bands painted on the buttstock: any enlightenment out there?

When the Zew Zealanders went ashore at ANZAC Cove on Gallipoli on April 25, 1916, they were carrying MLE MkI* rifles. These were not equipped for clip loading and were throated and sighted for the 215 gr round nosed bullet rather than the 174 gr Mk VII that was the issue in 1916.
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Old 05-08-2017, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
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I wonder why someone ground the receiver ring, then.
I see why you think it has been ground, here's another for comparison.


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Old 05-09-2017, 09:39 PM
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French Pistols from two world wars. In the Franco-Prussian war of 1870, France was badly trounced. Their pistol at the time was the Mle (French abbreviation for 'model') 1822 T bis. The French, being on the losing side of the war, got their improved handgun, the Mle 73, out a lot quicker than Germany who waited until 1879 to introduce theirs, and it was somewhat modified in 1883. The Mle 73 was an excellent weapon and was in many respects superior to our own 1873, the SAA; it was double action and the mechanism was very sturdy. The left side plate could be unscrewed for access to the mechnism, if repairs were needed. Its only negative was the rather anemic 11mm cartridge. However it fought in the French conquest of the African and Indchinese colonies against very fierce opposition and its stopping power was never in question. It was used in WW I and a few were used in WW II by the Resistance. By that time ammo was very scarce and some had their chambers hogged out with a file until they would chamber the 45 ACP round. They ussually held together long enough that the user could obtain a better weapon.

For offices there was the Mle 1874, also in 11mm. It had a shorter barrel and fluted cylinder and was blued. The 1873 was left in the white, when black powder fouling was cleaned with water, primers were corrosive and the revolvers were carried in leather holsters cured with tannic acid. 1873s, usually have poor exteriors. The holsters for the Mles 73 and 74 had a pouch for spare ammo, with twelve cartridge loops for two reloads.

The 1873 was becoming increasingly obsolete and in 1892 a new revolver was introduced, in 8mm caliber. It was designed as a cavalry pistol. The cylinder swung out on the right side; for reloading it was held in the left hand along with the reins, while loading was done with the right hand. It had springs to provide friction to prevent the crane from closing and the cylinder from rotating when bouncing around on top of a horse. The holster originally had cartridge loops for spare cartridges like the earlier revolvers but were soon modified to carry three packets of six cartridge, or one reload per package. Many early holsters wre also modifed to carry 8mm packets. The Mle 92 had the same pivoting sideplate as the Mle 73, but the retaining screw was captive. Parts were numbered in the order in which they should be removed. This revolver was produced until the 1920s, and remained the official French handgun until the adoption of the Mle 3A automatic psitol in 1937.

Photos:
Mle 1822 T bis.
Mle 1873 with clamshell holster.
Mle 1874.
Mle 1892.
Mle 1892 lockwork.
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Old 05-10-2017, 01:43 PM
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World War I was a pistol war unlike any other. For hand to hand fighting in the narrow confines of a trench the over four feet long Berthier rifle with another 18 inches of 'la Rosalie' on the front was not what the situation called for. The need quickly outgrew the number of Mle 1873, 74 and 92 revolvers on hand.The arsenal at St Etienne was making Mle 92s as quickly as posible but it was also making desperately needed rifles and machine guns so its output was limited. France looked elsewhere. America had a thriving arms industry but the weapons were expensive and had to cross U boat infested waters. Nevetheless France obtained quantities of Savage Model 1907, 32 ACP automatics, apparently originally bound for Portugal but delivered to France. France also managed to divert a shipment of Colt Army Special revolvers in 38 Long Colt, bound for Greece. These can be identified by he Greek lettering on the bottom of the butt.

France then turned to Spain which had a large arms industry, for both revolvers and automatic pistols. The revolvers were termed the Mle 92 Espagnol, as they were chambered for the 8mm Mle 92 cartridge. Copies of both Colt and Smith & Wessons were made but they resembled the originals only externally; the mechanism was whatever could be produced at tle least cost. Over 485,000 of them were produced.

France contracted with the Spanish firm of Bonifacio Echeverria to produce their 'Star' pistol. This was a well made pistol in 32 ACP vaguely reminicent of the Mannlicher pistols. Echeverria produced 23,000 of them.

Then came the deluge. France conracted with Gabilondo y Urresti for their 'Ruby' pistol. This was a much simplified copy of the Browning 1903. It was chambered for the 32 ACP and held 9 rounds. France put increasing demands on Gabilondo y Urresti for more and more pistols, forcing them to sub-contract with other makers. Finally France also contracted with Spanish makers for Ruby-type pistols. Around 900,000 were made, by possibly 40 different makers. Quality varied from barely acceptable to dangerous. Parts were not interchangable, including the magazines. Later, pistols were coded with two letters in a circle and magazines were similiarly marked. This was not sufficient as some makers used several varieties of magazine. Finally many of the magazines were marked with the serial number of their pistol. If parts broke, spare parts could be fitted with some filing if one were lucky. As time progrssed, the worse examples either blew up or broke down and were discarded. They were a curse on the French armed forces and the last ones were finally dropped from some obscure French agency in 1973.

Photos:
Savage 1907 with holster.
Colt Army Special.
Mle 92 Espagnol with WW I holster.
Star.Ruby type with WW I holster.
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Old 05-10-2017, 11:16 PM
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Cyrano-


Thanks for all your fine photos and expertise. I'm always impressed.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:39 AM
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A second model HE in 455 caliber that never left the states, was shipped to Winchester July 29, 1915 to test 455 ammo.





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Old 05-11-2017, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
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......
Then came the deluge. France conracted with Gabilondo y Urresti for their 'Ruby' pistol. This was a much simplified copy of the Browning 1903. It was chambered for the 32 ACP and held 9 rounds. France put increasing demands on Gabilondo y Urresti for more and more pistols, forcing them to sub-contract with other makers. Finally France also contracted with Spanish makers for Ruby-type pistols. Around 900,000 were made, by possibly 40 different makers. Quality varied from barely acceptable to dangerous. Parts were not interchangable, including the magazines. Later, pistols were coded with two letters in a circle and magazines were similiarly marked. This was not sufficient as some makers used several varieties of magazine. Finally many of the magazines were marked with the serial number of their pistol. If parts broke, spare parts could be fitted with some filing if one were lucky. As time progrssed, the worse examples either blew up or broke down and were discarded. They were a curse on the French armed forces and the last ones were finally dropped from some obscure French agency in 1973......
To add just a few tidbits to Cyrano's excellent dissertation, most of the Spanish gunmakers were actually more specifically Basque, concentrated in and around the Northern city of Eibar. I found a list of the dozens of manufacturers as of 1914 in a Spanish document that had been culled from the city archives and that listed them by size/number of employees: they ranged from 2 to 200.

Generally, the larger the company, the better the quality. My Ruby pictured below was made by Arizmendi y Goenaga, who produced about 80,000 for the French. They had around 125 employees, and this gun not only functions with another maker's magazine that I got it with, but will flawlessly feed hollowpoints.

After WW I, the Rubys kept spreading joy among other users. Newly independent Finland got a large batch from France for its new army, and came to hate them just as much, although they survived long enough to see action in the Russo-Finnish winter war of 1939/40. The new Polish army got them from the French and they saw use against the Red Army 1919/20.

And after the fall of France in 1940, quite a few landed in the holsters of German occupation troops in France, ending up in the US after being taken by GI's off the proverbial "dead SS officers" (in reality usually some frightened reservist) as a war trophy. And I've seen at least one Basque Ruby on Gunbroker that had bring-back papers of a US veteran from Vietnam, where it likely ended up with French colonial troops and then the VC before being captured by the American.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:00 PM
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Wish I could put a double like to that post, Absalom. I'll post a short addition. France supported one of he Balkan States: Latvia. The French ambassador noted that the Latvians were not impressed with the armaments they were receiving although they were the first line French weapons of the period: Rubys and Chauchat MGs.
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Old 05-11-2017, 12:27 PM
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At the conclusion of World War I, the French General Staff took a look at their weapons and equipment and decided that everything was obsolete. They developed a large scale plan of designing and rebuilding but due to budget limitations in the 1920s and 1930s, only prototypes were developed. When France finally became aware of the threat posed by a Germany under Hitler, many new designs were finalized and adopted, most bearing deignations of Mle 35 or 36. In the field of small arms, a long seriss of trials had resulted in the adoption of a pistol designed by Charles Petter, a Swiss citizen, and built by SACM (Société Alsacienne de Constructions Méchanique), located at Cholet in the middle of Fance. It was designated the Mle 1935A, and was chambered for the 7.65 Long cartridge that France had adopted as a SMG round in the late 1920s, identical to the cartridge for the Pederson device. It was an attractive pistol, well made, sturdy and reliable. Petter returned to his native Switzerland and after the war pursued his design which eventually resulted in the SIG P 210.

Manufacture of the 35A started in 1937; production was slow and as the probability of war increased, France looked for an alternative. The second place in the 1935 trials had gone to a design of the Manufacture d'armes de St Etienne (MAS). MAS dusted off their old plans, made a few changes and the pistol was adopted as the Mle 1935S. The design looks blockier, but is more comfortable in the hand than the 35A, and the sights are larger, better for a combat pistol.

At the start of WW II in September, 1939, French soldiers were armed with everything left over from WW I as well as the 35A and 35S. Up until the fall of France in July of 1940, SACM had produced 10,700 35A pistols and MAS had produced just 1040 35S, which went to the Armée de l'Aire (Air Force). Pre war 35As are scarce and I know of only one pre-war 35S. Germany put the 35A back in production and stamped the pistols with waffenamts. They did not make the 35S. The Nazis also put the MAB D and Unique 17 into production. One of the MABs must have fallen into the hands of the FFI (Forces Français de l'Interieur: the Resistance), as it came with the holster shown, probably a modified US M 1916. After the war, both the 35A and 35S were produced in quantity.

Photos:
Pre-war Mle 1935A.
Mle 1935A with M 1937 holster.
Mle 1935S.
Mle 1935S with a holster mae by SAGEM.
MAB D with FFI marked holster.
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Old 05-11-2017, 01:14 PM
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One last French gun. This Charlin 12 gauge, sliding breech shotgun is not a war weapon. However it has a very intresting history and deserves a look. It was made sometime before the start of WW II and the barrels were proved at the proof house at St Etienne. The proof mark is stamped on the round part of the barrels. Below the proof is the choke stamp: 'P Choke' is full choke for the left barrel, and '½ Choke' is somewhere between improved and modified for the right barrel. On the flats the barrels are marked 65, this indicates a cartridge 65mm long or 2½ inches, a common lemgth in Europe at that time The running rabbit is a Charlin code marking for the level of quality and the code is unknown. There are perfectly normal markings for a French shotgun of this period; however the markings below them on the flat are anything but normal. '70' indicates the chambers were rebored to 70mm, or 2 3/4 inches, the normal length in the US and were stamped with an eagle ove J to indicate a modification while reproof is indicated by the eagle over N. These are the proof marks of the German civil proof law of 1939-1945. This shotgun was taken as German war boody after the fall of France in June of 1940, and modified by its new German owner. It was probably also taken as war booty again in 1945 by a GI since I found it at a gun show in El Paso.

Photos:
Charlin 12 gauge shotgun, grade: one rabbit.
Action open.
Barrel and flat markings.
Right Barrel Flat markings.
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Old 05-11-2017, 01:24 PM
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I have way too many to photograph and post, but here's one I just posted on another thread. . .1943 Mauser P-38 outfit in stone mint condition. Well, the gun is mint. The holster, not so much, but was the vet pick up with the gun.
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Old 05-11-2017, 02:06 PM
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1945 Remington Rand than sold through the NRA/DCM in 1960.




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Old 05-11-2017, 08:00 PM
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Made in early 1945, don't have this one anymore, wish I had kept it!
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Old 05-12-2017, 04:42 PM
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Here are a few German weapons From World War I. First is a Reichsrevolver M 1878, made by Gebruder Mauser and issued to the Bavarian Army. Caliber is 11mm, DWM # 200. The unit stamping on the butt is probably A Battery, 4th Bavarian Artillery Regiment, and it probably was carried by a soldier in that regiment in WW I. It stayed in service after the war: the letters BE burned into the grip stand for Bayerische Einwohnerwehr, a post WW I Bavarian civil guard. The holster is a lot scarcer than the revolver.

Next is an LP08, my only World War I Luger. The sights have screw adjustments for zeroing. Has anyone seen the tool for adjusting these sights? I'd love to see a picture of one. The stock may be a reproduction.

Next is a complete 'Red 9' Rig: pistol with matching numbered stock, harness and cleaning rod. It came back to the US with a World War II vet who said he found it in a German machine gun nest in France. He sold it to a friend, and eventually I got it. The magazine follower for the Mausers in 9mm P has a scallop on the lower side to help feeding the 9mm round which is shorter than the 7.63 round the pistol was designed for.
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Old 05-12-2017, 05:00 PM
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And here are a few German weapons From World War II. The Mauser pistol with its holster is the Weiman Republic variation. It started out as a 'Red 9" and after the war had the barrel shortened and the original muzzle sleeved over the stub of the barrel to satisfy the Interallied Control Commission. The rear sight was removed and a fixed sight attached. It bears an early Waffenamt stamp (post WW I). The holster is dated 1920. The rig went with the German occupying forces in Norway and after the war it was used by the Norwegian Army. It was surplussed around 1956 and bears the Norwegian rampant lion mark to show it was released from Norwgian service.

Next is a Mauser banner police Luger with its holster. The pistol is dated 1939 and has the safety bar that prevents the firing pin from being released once the sideplate is removed.

Next is an Astra Model 903, the selective fire version of the Astra copy of the Mauser pistol. It's registered, of course. Its serial number is in the batch sold to Germany in World War II. René Duquesne has traced one of these back to a German Naval Artillery unit that defended Cherbourg, and I would'nt be surprised if this one came from there too. It has a Mauser stock (not the original Astra stock), with a piece grafted onto the front to accept the longer Astra 903 barrel.

Last is an early Mauser HSc in caliber 7.65, with the hole in the butt for a lanyard and a matted sight groove in the slide. It, too, has a waffenamt stamp to show it was accepted into the German Army.

I think I'll shut up for a while now.
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Old 05-12-2017, 06:58 PM
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^^^^Cyrano, Thank you for posting and please continue to share. I am a young man and can't afford all the toys you got but from a historical perspective find them fascinating.

Thank you for sharing and please add more if you should want. Best
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:52 AM
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Just picked this WWII era Mauser HSC 7.65 pistol up. It is a police issue, with the Eagle L stamp on the left side of the trigger guard.
A recent NRA American Rifleman article stated that the police marked WWII pistols don't bring as much as the Military marked ones. In the collectors world he would be proven wrong.
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Old 05-13-2017, 09:57 AM
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Here's a seldom encountered WWII bring back. The French Unique Coups 9 or model 17 made during the Nazi occupation. It is with it's correct original holster and two magazines. It is 7.65.
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Old 05-13-2017, 10:50 AM
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Cyrano and Absalom, thanks for the info and photos of the Ruby pistols. My paternal grandfather was a G.I. in France in 1918 and was a tank mechanic. His unit worked on whatever came in to be fixed, including French tanks, and he found a Ruby in one of them and brought it home. It has a permanent spot in the wooden locker that contains his wartime memorabilia. I took it to a local militaria dealer to find out what it was worth, and he had told me about the model and its reputation for unreliability, and that I shouldn't try to sell it since it was practically worthless as a gun but had the family history connection. Good advice.

Incidentally, my grandfather was at The Citadel as a cadet when the United States declared war in 1917. I think he would have been the equivalent of a sophomore or junior at the time. He and practically his entire class went to the recruiting office the next day and signed up. I'm enormously proud of him and his generation for their patriotism. Incidentally, he never returned to college after the war, but got married, had three children, and eventually became a partner in the family's machine shop business before he retired -- a good man who lived a good life.

I wish I had talked more with him about the war before he died, but he did leave a war diary that was interesting to read. It included a list of guys in his unit, and there is a poignant notation next to one of them that read "My best friend" and "Killed in action" and the date of his death.

God Bless all the "doughboys."
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:07 AM
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Vigil617:

Neat story. And great as a keepsake. Any chance you could post a picture of the Ruby sometime, and maybe a close-up of the stampings on the slide?
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Old 05-13-2017, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Absalom View Post
Vigil617:

Neat story. And great as a keepsake. Any chance you could post a picture of the Ruby sometime, and maybe a close-up of the stampings on the slide?
It'll take a bit of time and doin', but yes, I will.

UPDATE 06/01/2017:

And you thought I'd forgotten! Here they are, not the greatest photos but maybe good enough for you to be able to see the stampings. I'd forgotten how ugly this thing is! And from what I've heard, you should take the last photo with a grain of salt on this model....









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