OU 182: That thing at the bottom of the strap on the CZ27 holster is the German insigna for a 2d Lieutenant.

They were both brought back by an uncle who has passed away he was a paratrooper. Don't know much about them other then they have the Nazi stamp on some of the parts. P38 is numbers matching with the correct holster. Made in 43 by Mauser.

So the star thing is a 2d Lieutenant in the German army?

Any idea whats the other thing?

We have the German Air Force Air Defense School here at Fort Bliss; sometimes I see officers in uniform. One of those things is a second Lieutenant, two is a first Lieutenant, and three is a Captain. Don't know what the other thing is; looks like a pair of wings; perhaps the officer was in the Luftwaffe.

U.S. arms

World War I

Rock Island Arsenal Model 1903 w/ serial number corresponding to barrel date of 8-13.


Model 1917 Enfield, Eddystone dated 9-18


Colt Model 1911


Model 1917 Colt .45


Model 1917 Smith & Wesson .45


World War II

Model 1903-A3 Smith Corona 12-42


M1 6-44


M1 Carbine Underwood 10-43


Model 1911-A1 Remington Rand


Colt Commando and Smith & Wesson Victory Model

The star is simply a "Dienstgradstern", a part of rank insignia which are composed of however many components are needed to represent the rank, as Cyrano says. On field uniforms nowadays, they're sewn, not metal.

But that's the post-war German army. The Wehrmacht used very similar stars in their insignia. The picture below shows them in shoulder tabs for an Oberfeldwebel ( ~ First Sgt.).

The "bird" comes off the "Kragenspiegel" (collar insignia) of a Third Reich Luftwaffe soldier. See picture.

Since it's a war-time bring-back if I understand correctly, my suspicion would be that whoever captured that gun and holster took the star and the wings as a random souvenir off the uniform of some Germans who had no further use for it. No German would decorate a holster like that.

Attached Images

	123128-1.jpg (107.7 KB, 11 views)
	original-LW-Luftwaffe-Paar-Kragenspiegel.jpg (37.9 KB, 9 views)

Thanks Absalom

I really had no idea what they were, the inside of the holster has a name of a person and a name of a town. Interesting but my uncle did not talk about any of this.

Thanks again


Roland was his name, no idea who Paul is or was?

Here's an early one... S&W No. 2 Army.. a WWII bringback:

__________________
Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245

__________________
Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245

EDITED: I didn't see Absalom beat me to the punch!

The top pin is gull used for luftwaffe rank on collar boards. The bottom pin is a rank pip used on shoulder boards. The number of gulls or pips signified the rank. They were added after capture or post war. They would have never been placed on the holster by a German solider.

Add this Swedish m/41 I bought last weekend to the rest I have on page one. 1912 m96 rifle with a Swedish AGA42 scope sitting on it. Not an import mark on it. All matching numbers.

Attached Images

1912 m41.jpg (137.6 KB, 0 views)

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

Paul C was likely the original (German) owner of the holster. The Feb 1945 date is hand-written American-style (particularly the 1 is the giveaway here), so I think the town name goes with that and denotes where the new American owner acquired it. Blatzheim is located in the far western part of Germany between ****** and Cologne, about where the advancing US forces would have been in February 1945.

Just supposition, of course, but I'm pretty sure that's it.

Thank You

most interesting learning about these WW2 bring backs.

Nearly forgot the 1944 Inland ser# 5,471,xxx. All components in and out are supposed to be correct.
I believe at some point the wood on the carbine may have been refinished as a person has to search
out the cartouches as they are faint.

terry

Couple more. A Model 1917 that has strange wood. It is different colours left and right.

The other one is a Carcano Model 38 TS in 6.5 Carcano. It has a fixed rear sight zeroed at 300 m.

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	M1917LHS_02.jpg (144.2 KB, 25 views)
	M1917RHS_01.jpg (107.1 KB, 24 views)
	9138TS_01s.jpg (45.1 KB, 24 views)

__________________
Release the Kraken

Here's one from the other side of the pond...

British Webley, Mk VI, first introduced in 1915 during the first World War.

It's still in it's original .455 configuration. Many of these revolvers had their cylinder shaved to accept .45 ACP.

Shown with it is a British made Sam Browne Belt and holster.

__________________
Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245

....and a few more.

Finnish Mosin Nagant Model 28. Fewer than 15,000 were left after WWII.

An auction shot of the Carcano M41 I own. The Italians started production of long rifles again after finding themselves in WWII and in the middle of a caliber change to 7.35 mm from 6.5. This one has a VERY late serial and was likely built under German supervision at Arma Guerra.

A Mosin Nagant Model 91 of unknown vintage because it likely ended up in the Balkans where all the Russian information was ground off.

EDITED TO ADD: The site software swapped the Carcano and M28 pictures.

Attached Images

	120.jpg (22.1 KB, 8 views)
	M28RHS02.jpg (16.3 KB, 8 views)
	Balk91_Rt01.jpg (47.2 KB, 9 views)

__________________
Release the Kraken

U.S. Property stamped Hi-Standard in .22 LR

__________________
Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245

1943 Izhevsk PU



1943 Maltby No4mk1



1941 Tikka M91 AZF Capture on 1900 Tula receiver





1943 Izhevsk 91/30



1936 Tula Nagant



And a bunch more I am too lazy to post about

An addition to my earlier comments about this gun and holster:

By total coincidence, I just happen to be reading Raymond Gantter's "Roll Me Over: An Infantyman's World War II" (highly recommend it, by the way).

The book is a reconstruction of his experiences with the 1st Infantry Division in Europe 1944/45, where he made it from replacement private to a field commission in six months. The book, put together in the late 1940s, is based on his journal entries he kept and letters he wrote.

I just read about February 25, 1945 and the days after, where he talks about his unit entering Düren in Germany, which is only about 8 miles from Blatzheim, the town on the holster flap. And he discusses at length the capture of a Luftwaffe soldier who tells his US captors about being deployed as infantry because the Germans are out of gasoline for their planes.

It all fits nicely with that holster and its "accoutrements" being acquired by a US soldier there and then.

I have quite a few, many of which are posted here in the "pictures and albums" section of the Forum:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/members...ay-1944-a.html

Here's one that not everyone and his brother have.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

John, very nice Liberator you have there! You're right, you don't see them very often.

Here's my OSS contribution... Colt m1903, 1 of 900, shipped to the Office of Strategic Services on September 26, 1944:

__________________
Linda
SWCA #1965, SWHF #245

Hi Linda,

The photobucket picture is not loading on the OSS gun. Would you kindly repost? Thanks in advance. Best, TH

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Rather be outdoors

Here's a couple German contract pistols from Astra. The big one is a Nazi proofed 600 in 9MM and it's little brother is the 300 in 380 caliber.
Both with their correct holsters.

Attached Images

Nazi Astra 600 and 300 005.jpg (131.4 KB, 11 views)