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  #51  
Old 07-19-2017, 06:44 PM
Jim NNN Jim NNN is offline
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It's the typical diminishing returns sort of thing: As you go up standard increments in quality, the dollar amount gets greater and greater...or a better way to say it is with every, say...$500 increase in price, the increase in quality becomes less and less.

For defensive guns, spending that much doesn't make much sense. I'd say Korth is appealing more to the collector customer, and there's nothing wrong with that. So paying more for the target/competition model might actually be a better idea. I'm sure they're great and I'd love to shoot one.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:48 PM
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It's the typical diminishing returns sort of thing: As you go up standard increments in quality, the dollar amount gets greater and greater...or a better way to say it is with every, say...$500 increase in price, the increase in quality becomes less and less.

For defensive guns, spending that much doesn't make much sense. I'd say Korth is appealing more to the collector customer, and there's nothing wrong with that. So paying more for the target/competition model might actually be a better idea. I'm sure they're great and I'd love to shoot one.
I would hate to see a prize gun go off to an evidence locker.
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  #53  
Old 07-19-2017, 11:23 PM
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I got one too. I haven't fired it but it's an impressive firearm.
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  #54  
Old 07-20-2017, 03:28 AM
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When you look at the Mongoose and compare it to the classic Ratzeburg revolvers closely, you will notice design changes beyond the cylinder latch and grips; the Korth now has the side plate on the right side and the cylinder turns counterclockwise, as can be easily noticed when looking at the direction of the cylinder slots. The sights appear to be an improvement over the old Combat sights, that had two screws for windage, one was loosened and the other tightened. The screws for the sideplate has also been moved.

Some changes are definitely improvements from a practical standpoint.
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  #55  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:01 AM
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When you look at the Mongoose and compare it to the classic Ratzeburg revolvers closely, you will notice design changes beyond the cylinder latch and grips; the Korth now has the side plate on the right side and the cylinder turns counterclockwise, as can be easily noticed when looking at the direction of the cylinder slots. The sights appear to be an improvement over the old Combat sights, that had two screws for windage, one was loosened and the other tightened. The screws for the sideplate has also been moved.

Some changes are definitely improvements from a practical standpoint.
One of the things that helped me significantly in purchase was this previously discussed article, kiss my aura - larvatus prodeo. A trove of specific information comparing newer and older Korths. However, being brand new and holding my first Korth within the last two weeks, some of the less objective statements also helped a lot as I am familiar with each watch used by analogy and I also happen to have a 216570 Rolex.

"Korth Ratzeburg is as close as handguns gets to the Patek Philippe Ref. 2552, and Mulhouse Manurhin MR73 and Korth Lollar, to the Rolex 1016. The S&W Triple Lock is comparable to the Hamilton 940; the modern S&W, to a generic Timex."

So to be clear, the Korth Lollar the author has in mind would include the latest imported Mongoose offered by Nighthawk?

Thanks

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  #56  
Old 07-20-2017, 09:51 AM
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You know 95% of people when sampling two glasses of the exact same wine with one costing $150 and the other costing $5 will say the more expensive glass was far superior. There is something about the price that will make people think something is better even when it is not.
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  #57  
Old 07-20-2017, 11:08 AM
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"So to be clear, the Korth Lollar the author has in mind would include the latest imported Mongoose offered by Nighthawk?"

Michael Zeleny is a very complex person but I would also interprete his statements as you did. Korth started to manufacture the old Korth line in Lollar on CNC machinery and the economical success just did not come. When the new owners took Korth over, they did it as gun enthusiasts that have had a successful manufacturing business going but eventually they had to make sound business decisions and look for new market segments.

I know that in 2008, right before Korth closed shop in Ratzeburg, they were happy to sell seven guns a month. It wasn't a factory but a custom shop and one of their master gun smiths was a master in engraving that he learnt in Ferlach, Austria. A lot of special guns went to rich customers in the Middle East. Probably never got fired.
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  #58  
Old 07-20-2017, 11:25 AM
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You know 95% of people when sampling two glasses of the exact same wine with one costing $150 and the other costing $5 will say the more expensive glass was far superior. There is something about the price that will make people think something is better even when it is not.
And you know what most people cannot tell apart from a hole in the ground? We are talking Korth revolvers here not psychology.

I think that there are far more than a couple of serious handgunners here on our forum that will be able to appreciate a firearm for what it is and are fully able to make use of a good trigger and other features to enjoy it.

Most so called "shooters", but probably not close to 95%, will not hit the broad side of the barn with anything, not with a $500 Glock, nor with a $6,000 Korth. Those same folks drink wine for the effect, not the taste. Taste for wine needs to be developed over a fairly long - and cost intensive - time and handgunning needs solid fundamentals to be learnt and constantly reinstated and the ammo cost alone is often times prohibitive. Somebody who hangs a B27 at five yards and sprinkles it will never know ...
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  #59  
Old 07-20-2017, 12:57 PM
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iPac,

All adjustments I did on the Korth were just for personal preference, not so much for real improvement. The gun is great.

While the mechanical accuracy of the top recolvers are all comparable, features like trigger characteristics make a difference to those that compete at higher levels, as does a crisp sight picture, and a properly set trigger stop.

A Ruger Mk II is a very fine gun but when I competed in serious UIT matches on higher levels I found the Hämmerli 208 International giving me an advantage. When I shoot for speed with a wheelgun, my choice is still a S&W. A love affair that lasts over four decades.

Does it make me a gun w.h.o.r.e***?
I'm sure those specific details really do make a difference if one is competing at high levels. I don't do any competition. Still, I have an appreciation for those things anyway because that's something you don't get everywhere. Having adjustments to tweak the trigger pulls without permanently modifying something is a pretty great design.

I just love the time and skill that goes into quality revolvers. Something that simply isn't given to them anymore. For instance, on the vintage Korths, they had Nill grips made for them. That just tells you what kind of quality they are when they come from the factory with Nill grips standard. I have some round butt combat Nills on my snub Python and Karl Nill makes some high end grips.

I also noticed changes you commented about the design of the new Nighthawk Korths. That is one reason I want an older Ratze one. I like the cylinder rotating clockwise, like it should. The side plate is on the wrong side now too. Then of course the cylinder release position and style.

Did Korth ever make their Ratze revolvers in the plasma blue finish? I never researched the plasma blue to see if it has any benefits or downfalls, but man it sure does look good.

Last edited by iPac; 07-20-2017 at 12:58 PM.
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  #60  
Old 07-20-2017, 05:46 PM
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I was surprised to hear a conversion cylinder bumps up the price another grand. That's a lot of dough for a mere cylinder.
They used to advertise that both cylinders were made out of the same bar of steel. You have to plan ahead.
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  #61  
Old 07-20-2017, 07:10 PM
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Default Great, but not beyond comparison...

First, let me explain that I have four (4) Korths; three .38/.357s (3", 4" and 6") and a .38-only snub nose that I believe was made in the late sixties. I think they are great. The ergonomics and the fit and finish are top notch. The bluing on the 3" is so good, people notice it right off...that, and the funny little red dot cylinder release on the right side of the hammer. The accuracy is excellent in both .38 and .357 and the balance is perfect. When I purchased them they were going in the $5,000 range and were almost completely hand assembled and finished. The Nils grips were custom made for Korth and the guns are beautiful. I also own several Pythons and they, too are great. But I digress.

A while back I bought a gently used S&W 3" Model 27. Just for yucks, I took it to the range with the 3" Korth. At 20 yards, both performed well. I was not able to discern a real winner between the two. Yes, the 27 is heavier than the 3" Korth (which is about "K-frame" girth), but both shot off-hand all six [ProLoad .357] rounds (three groups each) around two inches. I was impressed with both of them.

Finally, as beautiful as the Korths are, the 3" Model 27 was also a beautiful revolver. The top strap is french milled and checkered and the bluing was excellent. The checkered hammer and trigger, and grips are excellent. S&W used to really take pride in the workmanship of their products and the N-Frames were the top of their line.

So, without knocking the Korths or the Pythons, I can definitely tell all you M24, 25, 27 and 29 owners out there, that you have nothing to be ashamed of. When it comes to classic revolvers, you are holding one of the best.

MDR
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  #62  
Old 07-20-2017, 07:53 PM
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If I had the extra moolah I would own some Korths, but since I don't I am thrilled with all my others, including Smiths, and Rugers.

I even own a couple of those perfection handguns.
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Old 07-20-2017, 08:03 PM
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If spending too much money on something new is the way you roll, then buy that Korth. As for me, I like to wait for such things to drop out of the sky for "much" less money. It really doesn't matter how much money you have or don't have. God created wisdom first. It just doesn't seem like He created enough to go around.
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  #64  
Old 07-20-2017, 08:21 PM
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If spending too much money on something new is the way you roll, then buy that Korth. As for me, I like to wait for such things to drop out of the sky for "much" less money. It really doesn't matter how much money you have or don't have. God created wisdom first. It just doesn't seem like He created enough to go around.
Have you actually held or fired one yet or still just "looking at pictures of it" as in January:

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Yup, a dog's rear end! I hope the developers of this Mongoose gun are reading this thread. It would be very enlightening for them especially after being noted in American Handgunner. In general, I have a lot of problems with the gun just looking at pictures of it; but, the biggest problem is the price. Insane! With $3500 I have a very good chance of picking up maybe 10 vintage Smiths this new year. All of them with solid investment/return potential.
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Old 07-20-2017, 11:51 PM
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I have Nill grips on a lot of my handguns and Willi Korth struck a deal with Nill to manufacture the grips for them in 1969. At that time Nill senior just started out and, as far as I know, this was the first factory order - for Korth it was a tremendous improvement.

In-house manufactured grips:


Nills, manufactured to Willi Korths specs:


Mydogreese,

your Korth was made in 1964/1965 in a contract for the Hamburg port police in two and four inch versions only but the contract was cancelled and the guns liquidated through private channels. While well made, they lack the double action roller bearing. I have the four inch version, of which about 481 were manufactured, while about 482 guns with two inch barrels were made. These also have the short coil spring that isn't encapsulated, yet, and the trigger action is noticeably inferior in double action compared to well set up post 1969 samples.





iPac,

Korth added plasma coating to their options later, I am unsure about the exact year that it was introduced but in 2007 they offered polished blue, plasma in polished and matte silver, plasma polished blue.

In order to show you guys better how the roller bearing works, I took the hand off. The wheels can be changed and really give very different stacking but I doubt that 1 out of 20 Korth owners, besides Michael Zeleny and me, will try to do that by themselves.


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Old 07-21-2017, 12:13 AM
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The guy in the video doesn't even know that K frame and L frame guns have the same grip frame.
Or maybe he was hoping that WE wouldn't know that(?).
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Old 07-21-2017, 12:24 AM
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I have a couple of N frame S&W's that are not current production-or even close to it- that have been through the machine shop, so to speak, and they are good beyond any possible chance of my being able to take full, or even close, advantage of their quality. JMHO. And I may have 2500.00 in the 2 of them, so that might be 3500.00 in present day dollars-for the 2 of them.

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Old 07-21-2017, 01:48 AM
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The gentleman mentioned a few times (Michael Zeleny) offers high end gun on Gunbroker under the user name "larvatus" and his listings are often a treat to look at and read even when you aren't in the market.

In particular, I get a smile when I read the opening of his item description:
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If you bought a gun from me, take 5% off the final price. If you bought more than one gun, take 10% off. Otherwise tell me a story. Collecting is a relationship business.
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Old 07-21-2017, 02:54 AM
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The gentleman mentioned a few times (Michael Zeleny) offers high end gun on Gunbroker under the user name "larvatus" and his listings are often a treat to look at and read even when you aren't in the market.

In particular, I get a smile when I read the opening of his item description:
This is whom I would recommend to buy a Korth from, he checks his guns carefully and has researched them intensively. Anything that isn't as it should been will be corrected, he is well known at the Korth factory in Lollar and followed their invitation to the SHOT show, which I unfortunately could not.

"amazingflapjacks wrote:
I have a couple of N frame S&W's that are not current production-or even close to it- that have been through the machine shop, so to speak, and they are good beyond any possible chance of my being able to take full, or even close, advantage of their quality. JMHO. And I may have 2500.00 in the 2 of them, so that might be 3500.00 in present day dollars-for the 2 of them."

Man, sorry that you overpaid! I bought the below Korth for $400something and corrected the challenges to its finish and fixed the frozen action, also put a grip from my spareparts box on.
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Old 07-21-2017, 04:01 AM
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Andyd wrote:

"Most so called "shooters", but probably not close to 95%, will not hit the broad side of the barn with anything, not with a $500 Glock, nor with a $6,000 Korth. Those same folks drink wine for the effect, not the taste. Taste for wine needs to be developed over a fairly long - and cost intensive - time and handgunning needs solid fundamentals to be learnt and constantly reinstated and the ammo cost alone is often times prohibitive. Somebody who hangs a B27 at five yards and sprinkles it will never know ..."

I LOVE IT!
Good point about the cost of ammo. Even if you reload, the expense of feeding a firearm often exceeds the cost of said firearm. Depending what you want to achieve, and how serious you are about learning the fundamentals of marksmanship, might be reason to think about the false economics of purchasing inferior tools.
Funny, too, how some folks knocking something like a Korth will fill a safe full of stuff whose cost exceeds that of a Korth, yet they rarely if ever use them....

I met a guy recently at a LGS. He told me his favorite cartridge was the 454 Casull. He loved it so much he owned ten Taurus Raging Bulls. I asked him if he owned a Freedom Arms 454 Casull. His response was that they were too expensive. So, I replied back "If you sold a few of those Tauruses you'd have enough money to buy a Freedom Arms." He just gave me this odd, confused look. Seems to me, if he really liked the 454 Casull, he'd want to own the gun which was originally intended for it and had the build quality to take advantage of it over the long haul of intensive use.
After he left, the shop owner told me that the guy would come in once every week or two and just had to buy something each time. Interestingly, I did notice that he before he left he purchased some piece of junk called a "Jimenez".

I think this anecdote bears some relevance to the topic at hand...
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Old 07-21-2017, 05:23 AM
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6string,

I hope that you will not be disappointed when I am telling the story of my 100,000 plus round S&W 22A here. I had this nice 1952 vintage S&W K-22 that I had bought for the princely sum of $250 plus tax when the kids were in kindergarden ( kindergarden was expensive enough!). When I started corrupting the kids, taking them shooting more often a few years later, that fine old K-22 was handled roughly and in an effort to protect my dear gun for future generations, I got a used S&W 22A for $125 plus tax about 17 years ago. We shot well over 100,000 rounds through the gun in the next ten years and while the gun needed some repairs, it is still going strong and does not just have a place in our safes, but a place in the boys' hearts.

With today's ammo cost, figuring only $ 7 for 100 rounds, we burnt $7,000 through that little gun.

Nevertheless, it was worth it. Both are handgunners and reloaders and I am proud to say that they can now shoot better than me.

Last edited by Andyd; 07-21-2017 at 05:25 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-21-2017, 09:06 AM
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Andyd wrote:

"Most so called "shooters", but probably not close to 95%, will not hit the broad side of the barn with anything, not with a $500 Glock, nor with a $6,000 Korth. Those same folks drink wine for the effect, not the taste. Taste for wine needs to be developed over a fairly long - and cost intensive - time and handgunning needs solid fundamentals to be learnt and constantly reinstated and the ammo cost alone is often times prohibitive. Somebody who hangs a B27 at five yards and sprinkles it will never know ..."

I LOVE IT!
Good point about the cost of ammo. Even if you reload, the expense of feeding a firearm often exceeds the cost of said firearm. Depending what you want to achieve, and how serious you are about learning the fundamentals of marksmanship, might be reason to think about the false economics of purchasing inferior tools.
Funny, too, how some folks knocking something like a Korth will fill a safe full of stuff whose cost exceeds that of a Korth, yet they rarely if ever use them....

I met a guy recently at a LGS. He told me his favorite cartridge was the 454 Casull. He loved it so much he owned ten Taurus Raging Bulls. I asked him if he owned a Freedom Arms 454 Casull. His response was that they were too expensive. So, I replied back "If you sold a few of those Tauruses you'd have enough money to buy a Freedom Arms." He just gave me this odd, confused look. Seems to me, if he really liked the 454 Casull, he'd want to own the gun which was originally intended for it and had the build quality to take advantage of it over the long haul of intensive use.
After he left, the shop owner told me that the guy would come in once every week or two and just had to buy something each time. Interestingly, I did notice that he before he left he purchased some piece of junk called a "Jimenez".

I think this anecdote bears some relevance to the topic at hand...
My problem is~~~I am not the government, and don't feel like it is on me to tell people how to spend their money. If they want to buy a thousand Hi Points by the grace of the lord, and the constitution I support it.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:41 AM
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ANDYD:
I sit in awe of your collection, taste in the finer things, and your knowledge of what you own.
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Old 07-21-2017, 03:54 PM
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In order to show you guys better how the roller bearing works, I took the hand off. The wheels can be changed and really give very different stacking but I doubt that 1 out of 20 Korth owners, besides Michael Zeleny and me, will try to do that by themselves.
I also take my hobbies very seriously and always try to become as much an expert as I can in them. That expertise is usually relegated to areas that interest me most, meaning certain types of models, designs, and eras. I am currently a post-war2 Colt V spring enthusiast and have done a lot of study on the Python. I even created a very comprehensive buying guide for Pythons that covers everything from factory detail changes to judging refinishes and about everything in between. Haven't shared it anywhere yet and probably won't for certain reasons.

So learning to work on and repair revolvers is just part of the hobby for me. I don't like paying others to do things that I can learn and do myself. I also like to stick with guns that have readily available parts, which could be an issue with Korths.

Regardless, if I had a Korth, I would be learning the mechanical design and adjusting the action like they were meant to do. I guess this drive and desire to learn is what separates truly dedicated gun enthusiasts from the rest. Collecting is of little interest to me. It's all hands on shooting and use here. When mechanical design and function is what gets you excited, then Korths have an appeal.

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Old 07-21-2017, 08:18 PM
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I just read a review about the best revolvers in 357 magnum. They rated the Manurhin the best 357mag revolver. Made in France.
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:55 AM
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Hi Andyd,
Not disappointed at all. Some guys have great luck, too, with the various Ruger MKI-MKIV 22s.
Personally, I love those old Remington single shot 22 rifles that we used back in junior rifle. Those things just kept shooting! So, I know and respect what you mean when you say they have a place not only in your safe but in your hearts!
But, since we're talking DA revolvers, I've seen too many new N frame S&Ws worn out in a year, just from shooting them 100-200 rounds a week, (wadcutter loads, single action only... Bullseye club matches). I've got a M29 that's been to the factory twice, and twice more to two factory trained gunsmiths all within a couple years. It's never seen anything steady but light target loads. Similar thing with my brother's M27.
The funny thing is, while I had this trouble with the then-new stuff, my pre-war 2nd model Hand Ejector in 455 not only shot match worthy scores, it never gave me any trouble. Go figure!

Last edited by 6string; 07-22-2017 at 03:03 AM.
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Old 07-22-2017, 04:00 AM
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...
But, since we're talking DA revolvers, I've seen too many new N frame S&Ws worn out in a year, just from shooting them 100-200 rounds a week, (wadcutter loads, single action only... Bullseye club matches). ...
That's basically only 5,000 to 11,000 rounds. My S&W 14-2 and several M19-2 and -3s, as well as a surplus M65 have seen multiples of that when I suffered a serious falling plate addiction.

I just got a S&W M27-2 and hope that it will give me better service than what you experienced!
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Old 07-22-2017, 07:25 AM
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"That's basically only 5,000 to 11,000 rounds."

Yes! They were ordered from a distributer and arrived with 0.010" B-C gap, and both failed to come to full lock-up on slow SA cocking. That's was for starters. I guess when they're not set up right a lot of things maybe just work against each other? Broken or worn out hands were a big problem, and both needed new sears to correct a dangerous "push off" condition. There were some other problems that came up, too. Living in Canada at the time, these repairs were tremendously problematic, as each time a special permit-to-convey was needed from the regional firearms control officer (a 40 mile round trip from home, plus a couple hours waiting in the lobby) to allow shipment or delivery to a gunsmith. Anyone who read any of the Zeleny articles cited elsewhere may recall his comment on the significance of this sort of problem for European shooters. Thus, his speculation that an investment in a much more durable item, such as a Korth or Manurhin, is well worth the cost.
Anyhow, the 29 eventually got a much needed rebuild at the factory, and the 27 got sold. Fortunately, a later LSI era 25-5 proved much better, as did a few 24-3s, and another 29-3.
Have you known any IHMSA shooters that used 29s? (I've known three or four such guys). They just don't seem to hold up under hard use, or maybe I should more fairly say the ones I saw then didn't.

Going back to the original topic, would it be accurate to say that it would be a rare Korth or Manurhin MR73 that left the factory (workshop?) short of a properly tuned set-up?

Jim

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Old 07-22-2017, 10:07 AM
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Seems like a well thought out and very high quality Revolver. BUT...... for $3500 bucks I'd sooner buy a registered Magnum or another Colt SAA.

I do believe that out of the box it would put a new Smith to shame in smoothness, adjustability and QC, but since I only buy vintage Smiths and do my own smithing, I'm not able to justify the HUGE $$ gap. Aside from which, it would take me years to get use to it's Butt Ugly looks - LOL!!!
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:05 PM
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I have a 4", .357 Magnum five shot Korth with the vent rib barrel. I've had it since the late '60s and frankly, have shot it very little.

If I recall correctly (don't have the pistol in front of me) one of the German proofs is dated "67", so I assume that is when the revolver was made.

I have a factory letter wherein Korth states that they made only 300 - 350 examples of that particular model.

And, if I could figure out a way to post a pic, I would. Ha! Got it, I think.
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Old 07-22-2017, 05:27 PM
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I have a 4", .357 Magnum five shot Korth with the vent rib barrel. I've had it since the late '60s and frankly, have shot it very little.

If I recall correctly (don't have the pistol in front of me) one of the German proofs is dated "67", so I assume that is when the revolver was made.

I have a factory letter wherein Korth states that they made only 300 - 350 examples of that particular model.

And, if I could figure out a way to post a pic, I would. Ha! Got it, I think.
The serial number should start with 21xxx, it is the first series of the Sportrevolver line. There were 172 of them made in 4" and 334 in six inches. This first series lacks the roller bearing and adjustability of the trigger return spring from the outside.
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Old 07-25-2017, 02:40 PM
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The serial number should start with 21xxx, it is the first series of the Sportrevolver line. There were 172 of them made in 4" and 334 in six inches. This first series lacks the roller bearing and adjustability of the trigger return spring from the outside.
I dug out a copy of the letter that I received from Korth in 1995. It's obvious that my memory isn't what it used to be!

The pistol is stamped "66" rather than "67" and Korth confirmed that the pistol was made in 1966. The serial number does start with 21XXX.

Thanks for the production numbers, I never knew that so few were produced and your figures are much more precise than what Korth provided. I'm chalking that up to something being lost in translation, that they rounded their figures and indicated that their figures were not exact.

I vaguely remember what I paid for the pistol, and admit that I have no clue what the pistol might be worth today.

Thanks for the great information!
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:36 PM
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I dug out a copy of the letter that I received from Korth in 1995. It's obvious that my memory isn't what it used to be!

The pistol is stamped "66" rather than "67" and Korth confirmed that the pistol was made in 1966. The serial number does start with 21XXX.

Thanks for the production numbers, I never knew that so few were produced and your figures are much more precise than what Korth provided. I'm chalking that up to something being lost in translation, that they rounded their figures and indicated that their figures were not exact.

I vaguely remember what I paid for the pistol, and admit that I have no clue what the pistol might be worth today.

Thanks for the great information!
I'll give you what you paid for it plus an additional 10% for your troubles!!!
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:45 PM
Da Old Bear Da Old Bear is offline
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I'll give you what you paid for it plus an additional 10% for your troubles!!!
Only "10%" !? (-:

Best offer I've had all week. In fact, it's the only offer I've had all week. (-:

Let us not forget inflation. I paid hard earned, late 1960s dollars and the army didn't pay all that well back then.

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Old 07-26-2017, 12:18 AM
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I have seen the 21 to 22 series revolvers listed for over $4,000 but suspect that they sell around $3,000 to $3,500, bringing just a little more than a Colt Python.

When Willi Korth started out, he had to offer his revolvers competitively to the pricing of known manufacturers; Colt and S&W. When Willi Korth used Dynamit Nobel as a sole distributor, they started exporting in numbers and upped the prices considerably, they also brought sales up.

What do gummibears and Korths have in common? Gummibears were invented by a certain Harald Riegel in Bonn, Germany. His company was Haribo and he owned a Korth Combat with a three inch barrel with the serial number 31298.

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Old 07-26-2017, 02:59 PM
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I have seen the 21 to 22 series revolvers listed for over $4,000 but suspect that they sell around $3,000 to $3,500, bringing just a little more than a Colt Python.

When Willi Korth started out, he had to offer his revolvers competitively to the pricing of known manufacturers; Colt and S&W. When Willi Korth used Dynamit Nobel as a sole distributor, they started exporting in numbers and upped the prices considerably, they also brought sales up.

What do gummibears and Korths have in common? Gummibears were invented by a certain Harald Riegel in Bonn, Germany. His company was Haribo and he owned a Korth Combat with a three inch barrel with the serial number 31298.
Lots of great information. I never figured that I'd find an authority on Korths on the S&W forum!

I haven't found much information on line, and the Blue Book stopped trying to place market prices on Korths quite a while ago.

When were the first Korths imported into the US? The one I own is the first one I'd ever seen, and I don't remember seeing one in a shop in the States.

At my age, and to save the wife a bunch of grief in the future, I'm considering some major down-sizing and "safe queens" along with other stuff are being added to the growing list of things I don't or most likely won't use anymore. Kind of a tough decision in some ways, but necessary.

Thanks again, Andyd.

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Old 07-27-2017, 12:54 AM
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I am not sure when exactly Korth started selling with a sole distributor but Korth U.S.A. (Earl's) is still listed with some good info on the old Ratzeburg revolvers. They have the last catalogues from 1999, 2001 and a 2003 press release.

Korth-Waffen (Revolver)
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:24 PM
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Ejector Rod and Ratchet of my cherished S&W Perf Ctr 627 N Frame .357 (pic 1) and the Korth Mongoose .357 (pic 2&3). Even accounting for the larger N Frame S&W cylinder, there still seems to be a substantial difference in thickness at the ejector rod and ejection star, and the Korth uses higher strength and harder steel. Interestingly, spent shells fall much easier and slicker from the Korth presumably from the harder steel, and the proprietary extra hardening process during chamber boring.
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Old 07-27-2017, 04:59 PM
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Off topic a tad, but $3500 for a Korth doesn't sound bad compared to $79,000 for a shotgun on GunsInternational.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:52 PM
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I'm fine with my Rugers and Smith's. I don't even want to touch a Korth. Afraid I'd fall in love. Too rich for my blood.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:06 PM
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I'm fine with my Rugers and Smith's. I don't even want to touch a Korth. Afraid I'd fall in love. Too rich for my blood.
I had that exact experience with a Wilson Combat 1911. I ended up buying one.

Very pleased with the Korth in double action. The top row of black targets take serious concentration, and the numbers are not sequential. This is a little exercise our agency does for warm up at five yards. You shoot for time, a fixed number of shots, then you get your time and add a second for each miss.

I have been slowly relieving the pull weight adjustment until I get an FTF, then I'll go back 180 degrees.

By the way, Nighthawk has offered excellent Customer Service in advising getting the .357 cut for moon clips by TK Custom. They've even reached out to one of their Korth German trained smiths to make sure everything is absolutely okay to move forward. I could never pass our agency's 50 round timed course with speed loaders.
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:00 AM
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Doug,

the ball bearing that is pushed in and out of the chambers is giving a much smoother surface than any polishing could. In the old manual it is pointed out that even harsh cleaning with steel wool would not mar the finish.

By the way, the German serfs that don't have a gun permit can enjoy the Skyhawk for *999 as a blank firing revolver .

eGun
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Old 07-28-2017, 01:07 AM
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Off topic a tad, but $3500 for a Korth doesn't sound bad compared to $79,000 for a shotgun on GunsInternational.
I hear you! I have a Merkel 147E that I honestly don't like much more than my old Remmy 870.
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Old 07-28-2017, 07:51 AM
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It seems (of Korth !), we have a new happy Revolver Owner (posts #89 + 92)...

...and obviously there are knowledgeable people out, who likes not only german revolvers,
but also Anschütz rifles and Merkel shotguns


So I hope, a bit more eye-candy (examples for the plasma coatings) is ok:

1. from the Nill side
https://www.nill-griffe.com/Replacem...d_back_68.html
IIRC the "PVD blue" (here with Ivory) was first offered in 2001, the "silver coating" (here with Rosewood on)
+/- 10 years earlier (after the very rare "real stainless steel" Korth's)?

2. no Korth...but the same "Titanium Blue"

P.44
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Old 07-28-2017, 08:06 PM
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I guess I like 4" .357s. Newest member is the Korth

4 357s.jpg
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Old 07-29-2017, 12:56 AM
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I guess I like 4" .357s. Newest member is the Korth
Nice collection of four inch wheelguns!
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Old 07-29-2017, 01:07 AM
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Originally Posted by P.44 View Post
...

...and obviously there are knowledgeable people out, who likes not only german revolvers,
but also Anschütz rifles and Merkel shotguns

....
I like quality guns and also have had two Swiss P210s also, the P210-4 I gave to one of my sons when he was accepted in med school and replaced it with a P210-6. I honestly like the -4 better. I bought those in Germany when prices were around $700 and imported them myself. Prices changed quite a bit in the last years.

The P210 is a very high quality gun and known for its longevity, something it has in common with the Korth. I find both extremely accurate and easy to shoot well handguns, the trigger really helping with accuracy but for fast shooting they hold little to no advantage over other less expensive quality firearms.
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Old 07-29-2017, 07:34 PM
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Nice collection of four inch wheelguns!
Thanks, I am enjoying your collection also.
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Old 07-30-2017, 01:34 AM
R.A. Rifleman R.A. Rifleman is offline
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The new Korth revolvers from Lollar are CNC machined, with minimal hand fitting.

One of the advantages of the Korth double action is in the roller bearing on top of the trigger that can be changed to give different, yet very repeatable stacking. Extraction of spent cases is super smooth since the chamber surfaces are smoothened by pushing a steel bearing in and out, compressing the surfaces. The quality and fit is still a whole lot better than any gun from the Performance Center, and comparable to very early Colt Pythons and Registered Magnums.

I collect Korths from Ratzeburg and personally do not see a price tag of $3,500+ justified for a CNC machined revolver - but then I wouldn't want to own any revolver with a rail at a heavily discounted price.
Left hand column. Top revolver (.357?) with the finger groove stocks off the fourth revolver down, if possible.
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Old 07-30-2017, 03:55 AM
regalsc regalsc is offline
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Originally Posted by Andyd View Post
The new Korth revolvers from Lollar are CNC machined, with minimal hand fitting.

One of the advantages of the Korth double action is in the roller bearing on top of the trigger that can be changed to give different, yet very repeatable stacking. Extraction of spent cases is super smooth since the chamber surfaces are smoothened by pushing a steel bearing in and out, compressing the surfaces. The quality and fit is still a whole lot better than any gun from the Performance Center, and comparable to very early Colt Pythons and Registered Magnums.

I collect Korths from Ratzeburg and personally do not see a price tag of $3,500+ justified for a CNC machined revolver - but then I wouldn't want to own any revolver with a rail at a heavily discounted price.
If they're CNC with very little hand fitting now is the high price because of inflation or just the name not to mention the rubber stocks. I have heard of a possible Python copy by Pinetta not sure of name that would be one I would buy due to it being affordable. The older Korth seems to be the guns to have at same as new price.
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