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Old 07-14-2017, 08:25 PM
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Exclamation LATEST UPDATE ON THE CIVILIAN MARKSMANSHIP PROGRAM 1911A1 PISTOLS!

Alabama Congressman Mike Rogersí amendment passed 6/28/2017 with the FY2018 National Defense Authorization Act (NDAA). The legislation will now move to the House floor and go to the Senate.

You can read more about this from Congressman Rogers by clicking here.

If, for some reason, the link doesn't work for you, here is a brief quote from Congressman Rogers' report:

"The amendment would compel the Army to release M1911A1 pistols to the CMP. Transferring these vintage pistols to the CMP would allow them to inspect, grade, prepare for sale and sell these pistols. The CMP would reimburse the Army for costs associated with the transferring of the pistols. CMP South, headquartered in Anniston, Alabama, oversees sales. Similar language has been in the last two NDAAs, but the previous Obama Administration would not allow the Army to deliver the pistols to the CMP for political reasons.

Rogersí amendment, supported by the NRA, authorizes and directs the Army to complete the delivery."


These pistols would include Colts, Ithacas, and Remington Rands. And quite possibly some by Union Switch & Signal and Remington-UMC. And who knows...maybe even some Springfields!

All of us who love the 1911A1s still have a long wait ahead of us, but there may be light at the end of the tunnel.

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Old 07-14-2017, 11:39 PM
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Maybe a Singer? One can dream.....
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Old 07-15-2017, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by A10 View Post
Maybe a Singer? One can dream.....
Any of the more rare 1911's will immediately go to auction on the CMP site, I guarantee.
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:07 PM
HOUSTON RICK HOUSTON RICK is online now
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I would happily take any of these 1911s that shoots.
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:11 PM
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I'm sure most of these will be sold on the cmp auction site.
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnRippert View Post
Any of the more rare 1911's will immediately go to auction on the CMP site, I guarantee.
Yep, the CMP is all about the Benjamins these days.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
Yep, the CMP is all about the Benjamins these days.
That's how they fund themselves. They get the most money they can for the stuff they get. Not sure if folks know that or even care?
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Richard Simmons View Post
That's how they fund themselves. They get the most money they can for the stuff they get. Not sure if folks know that or even care?

Why shouldn't they do that? Helps keep other costs down.
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:22 PM
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And they said it wouldn't get done. Start saving those bottle caps.
I'm in for a few should they release these historical icons.

CMP 1911 pricing is announced
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gjamison View Post
I'm sure most of these will be sold on the cmp auction site.
Well, that's the whole purpose of releasing them to the CMP, although I'm not sure yet that they'll be "auctioned". They may simply be put up for sale at fixed prices. The CMP is projected to receive (overall) thousands of these pistols. It's hard to imagine several hundred of them going up for auction at one time, or even over the space of a few weeks.

I've heard the figure of 55,000 pistols will be available to the CMP, but I can't remember where I read it, and have no idea if it's true. And they won't receive them all at once.

I've mentioned this before, but these pistols aren't going to show up at the CMP one day and then go up for sale the following week.

Every one will be inspected and graded regarding condition. If any are inoperative, they'll be repaired. The CMP isn't going to sell pistols that don't work or will malfunction every time someone chambers a round or pulls the trigger. The pistols can be coming from anywhere, even overseas.

I fully expect the pistols will start off at a minimum price of $1000-$1200. Again, it will all depend on condition, and also on the manufacturer. Ithacas will sell for more than Remington Rands...just as they mostly do now. Colts even higher. A really good quality Union Switch & Signal can go for over $7,000 these days. There were only 55,000 of those made during the war years. Ditto for Springfields...very hard to find nice ones now at a price ordinary guys like me could afford.

But I'd be happy to settle for aother Ithaca or Remington Rand. Or a Colt! They are excellent pistols, all of them.

Keep in mind, this isn't a definite done deal yet. And even if it does happen, it'll be a year, possibly two years or longer, before we see the pistols ready for sale.

So I'll just kinda lay back and keep my fingers crossed that it'll happen and that I'll still be around when it does.

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Old 07-15-2017, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magneto View Post
Yep, the CMP is all about the Benjamins these days.
Kinda like gun shops and just about every other business in America, huh?
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Old 07-15-2017, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by oneounceload View Post
Why shouldn't they do that? Helps keep other costs down.

They should. My comment was intended for folks that think the CMP should provide firearms at the cheapest possible price.
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Old 07-15-2017, 07:08 PM
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I don't expect any deals at all, but I am pretty much set on my 1911's and 1911A1's. What I do hope is that it helps stabilize the market prices on original 1911 type pistols.
Let's face it, more collector guns in the market, the better it is for all involved. We would not be having this conversation if the election went the other way. Remember that next time too.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:03 PM
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They should cap the mark-up CMP can put on em at something like $75/pistol...
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:30 PM
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I'm not waiting I purchased a new Auto Ordnance army ww2 clone it's as close to a real usgi 1911 that's manufactured today. For $389 I did good nib.

The first ones offered will never hit the auction sight the chosen few will get theirs first the ones in the click sort of speak.
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Old 07-15-2017, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve912 View Post
They should cap the mark-up CMP can put on em at something like $75/pistol...
Just $75 dollars that might get you two mags. We're going to pay through the nose for these.

Starting at $1,000 for the worst ones. I'll pass.

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Old 07-15-2017, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
Kinda like gun shops and just about every other business in America, huh?
But they aren't just another LGS. If they were that would be different. But the CMP was about getting people to shoot to develop their skills. That's what I remember. It was supposed to be about getting guns into the hands of people that might be called on to serve the country in the military. It wasn't about raking in cash.
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:19 PM
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I sure do hear a lot of sour grapes in all the threads that I have seen about these 1911's. I realize that not everyone is going to be able to afford one at these prices, but they are not obligated to list them for below market. In fact, just the opposite. Whatever the market will bear is what they have to sell them for. Make no mistake, these will sell at the prices they are planning, I expect they will sell faster than some think/want. If sales are slow enough at the prices they choose then maybe a drop will happen. Don't hold your breath though.
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Old 07-15-2017, 10:38 PM
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These pistols are already spoken for should they become available, count on it. Buy one, don't buy one, your choice.
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by C J View Post
But they aren't just another LGS. If they were that would be different. But the CMP was about getting people to shoot to develop their skills. That's what I remember. It was supposed to be about getting guns into the hands of people that might be called on to serve the country in the military. It wasn't about raking in cash.

You're partially correct. It seems folks assume what the CMP is about then get upset when they don't adhere to that assumed standard.

About the CMP - Civilian Marksmanship ProgramCivilian Marksmanship Program
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Old 07-16-2017, 06:57 AM
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From the CMP web site:

In carrying out the Civilian Marksmanship Program, the corporation shall give priority to activities that benefit firearms safety, training, and competition for youth and that reach as many youth participants as possible.


Selling guns to the highest bidder is not in keeping with that mandate IMO. How many youths are going to be able to afford a $1000 handgun? If they could they would be far better off spending less money on a better gun. A used Sig P220 will shoot far better than your average military reject 1911.

I know they will sell the guns. But few will be sold to youths which is their mandate to serve. I used to respect what they were doing providing quality firearms at a rate that meant more people could own them - youths included. Now that seems to be second to seeing how much money they can bring in. This is a government financed operation. Why not just sell new 1911's for what they could get for them? Those would sell also. That is hardly the point of their mission. They have clearly spelled out functions to perform. Being a retailer for milsurp handguns is not part of their mandate.

I'm sure lots of people can afford those guns. But that isn't their function. They exist to get guns into the hands of people who might one day serve in the military. What I see is a lot of gun lovers willing to pay top dollar for a 1911 with military history. How exactly does that benefit the people they are supposed to serve? The people that will be buying these 1911's would be able to buy them elsewhere. The idea was to get guns in the hands of young shooters. I don't see that happening with this plan.

As for buying one if you want one that isn't my point at all. If I wanted one I'd already have one. I have all the guns I've really wanted to get over the years within reason. I could certainly afford a 1911 if I wanted one. But I think about a kid just out of high school wanting to learn to shoot. The CMP is supposed to serve their needs which has included in the past selling quality guns at cut rates to people like that. Selling guns at market prices does nothing to promote youth shooting. I'm not a youth. I don't need that. But there are those who might have been able to afford one of these 1911's if they were sold the way guns were sold in the past by CMP.

Quote:
that assumed standard
I didn't assume anything. I looked up their role historically and currently as prescribed by the law that created the CMP. I read their own statements of purpose and it said several times they exist to serve young shooters. I wouldn't buy one of these guns no matter if they sold them at a discount or not. This isn't about me. I just would like to see the people the CMP was created to serve actually be served by the CMP.

Also don't mistake my statement of facts as me being "upset" over anything. It's no skin off my nose. I wouldn't buy one no matter what. I don't even like 1911's. There are better guns available for less money. I own some. I could certainly afford $1000 for one of these weapons if I chose to do so. You mistake my purpose for posting completely.

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Old 07-16-2017, 07:11 AM
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I'll not argue. I simply provided a link to the facts. Folks can either accept them or not. FYI, the CMP receives no government funding so it's not a "government financed operation". Just another fact.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
Kinda like gun shops and just about every other business in America, huh?
Except gun shops and other businesses don't exist to "promote marksmanship" like the CMP says it does. If the CMP is going to admit that they are a business like any other, then it's pretty sad.
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:21 AM
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Well if they sold all 55,000 or 70,000 or whatever to "youths" how far would that go in a country with millions of youths.
Why don't all the adults who bought ammo, guns, barrels etc return them to the CMP so it can adhere to it's principals and sell them solely to the young and future military ?

Since "youths" by definition can't buy these handguns/riles perhaps the CMP should have the parent/buyer sign an agreement to enlist their kids in the military once they come of age. That would satisfy the supposed mandate wouldn't it.


Oh, a Sig, AO or similar is not a USGI icon, and never will be. If I wanted a original 1911 copyI'd buy a RIA and take it for what it is, a copy and nothing more. Will the RIA shoot better? Probably, but I don't care.
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Old 07-16-2017, 08:59 AM
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There will be many who will demand that the CMP DO "this" with the 1911's (If & when offered). Sales will have restrictions. Same restrictions that apply to previous Rifle & ammunition sales. PLUS more requirements yet to be determined (or announced).
There WILL be the inevitable "It's not fair" from those that cannot/will not meet the requirements. We've all heard & read them in every forum and gun club around the country.
PRICE. This will be determined by CMP Board of Directors. I'm certain they take into consideration condition, rarity & marketplace. They are NOT required to sell them BELOW market value.
CMP sells it's commodities to fund Shooting Programs with emphasis on youth training. They have developed matches in recent years to promote competition using these obsolete firearms. Otherwise, these firearms would be relegated to collector status.
The CMP gets an earful with each price or per-year-purchase change the Board makes. BUT ,they sell what they have & the shooting fund is sustained.
The forums WILL be filled with complaints upon the eventual release. Maybe someone will do a poll????

1)Too expensive for ME so I cannot buy as many as____

2)Too cheap so _____ bought too many and CMP did not save any for my Grandkids to buy ___ years from now.

3)Too many available so value of my collection went down.

4)My ___ served in ____ so even if I cannot afford ____ , I should have it anyway since taxpayers already paid for them once.

5)I need one, "for the children"

Anyway, Apologies for the rant. Moderators can delete if desired. No puppy in this parade anyway but If/When it happens, a comfortable chair & popcorn will suffice.

Last edited by CHARLIE699; 07-16-2017 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:12 PM
Magneto Magneto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Simmons View Post
I'll not argue. I simply provided a link to the facts. Folks can either accept them or not. FYI, the CMP receives no government funding so it's not a "government financed operation". Just another fact.
I think the CMP getting guns from the government at virtually no cost and selling them at market rates pretty much makes them government financed.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:16 PM
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I'm sure the CMP will do with these 1911's what they did with the M1 Garand. Elevate them to stupid prices.
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
Kinda like gun shops and just about every other business in America, huh?
Gun shops and every other business in America have to buy what they sell not get it free from the US Government aka US Taxpayers. Huh?
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Old 07-16-2017, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Simmons View Post
That's how they fund themselves. They get the most money they can for the stuff they get. Not sure if folks know that or even care?
That is the right way to dispose of public property
The value of these guns belongs to the citizens

If a public corporation tried to grind up valuable assets the directors would be hauled into court faster than you can say "derivative suit"
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Last edited by bushmaster1313; 07-16-2017 at 12:33 PM.
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Old 07-16-2017, 01:05 PM
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Most of my retired military friends told me any 1911a1 they came across at a range during qualification, or being handed out for use was pretty well used and pretty beat up. Just look at the condition of those Colts 1911s that just came up for sale from the Marines. They were either new, or pretty tired looking. I can't say at this point if I will buy another 1911a1 from the CMP to go along with my '44 Remington Rand, but it looks like politically things are going in the right direction,2A wise, if we are even having this conversation. This is a good thing for gun owners a great thing for America.
  #31  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
These pistols are already spoken for should they become available, count on it. Buy one, don't buy one, your choice.
Yep - and will sell faster than you can click the 'add to my cart' icon!
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  #32  
Old 07-16-2017, 01:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
And they said it wouldn't get done. Start saving those bottle caps.
I'm in for a few should they release these historical icons.

CMP 1911 pricing is announced
Sorry, that story is 18 months old and was issued under a previous administration. The current initiative is to eliminate the previous administrations dribble them out in smaller lots strategy (which ended up being 0 in reality).

Fundamentally, we do not know what is going on with the 1911s at this stage other than there is a new bill in the House trying to get this all sorted out in an in-touch with reality manner.
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  #33  
Old 07-16-2017, 02:56 PM
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Back in the DCM days of the 1950s-60s, many of the GI M1911A1s sold by DCM (at that time the DCMs price was around $20 each as I remember) were brand-new and in the box. I bought several of them, one being a US&S which was NIB, another was a Colt which was pretty close to new condition. I foolishly sold the US&S to a friend for about what I paid, as I already had several other .45s. Keep in mind that back then, you could walk into about any pawn shop in America and buy a GI .45 for $25-$30. Any of those .45s sold through CMP today will very likely have been heavily used, and most of the rarities (such as US&S) probably won't be found among them. I believe DCM (which was the predecessor of CMP) was actually a part of the Army. I bought several carbines, M1903A3s, and .45s, as I don't think there was a limit on the number purchases, except maybe some limit on how frequently you could buy them. As a shooter, I would personally opt to buy one of the new M1911A1 GI clones rather than through CMP. Why not buy a new gun which is probably just as well made as one of the beat-up WWII leftovers at what is likely to be a higher price?
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
I'm sure the CMP will do with these 1911's what they did with the M1 Garand. Elevate them to stupid prices.
And yet somehow they sell all of em' with backlogs.
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Old 07-16-2017, 03:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnRippert View Post
I sure do hear a lot of sour grapes in all the threads that I have seen about these 1911s.
Isn't that the truth. It's the same old thing from some of the same ol' people in every thread here about these pistols.

You know, I started this thread just as a sort of little F.Y.I. thing. Thought it might interest some of the 1911 aficionados on the forum. I also started it because it ties in with our Second Amendment rights in a sort of indirect, but positive, way...but that must've went over some of your heads because you're too busy griping about prices or complaining about how the CMP conducts its business.

I swear, I haven't heard this much crying and whining and peeing and moaning since the last time I visited my cousin's pre-kindergarten daycare facility. Beats all I've ever seen.

Some of you guys need to grow up. What a bunch of party poopers.

Maybe I can get a moderator to lock this thread.

Y'all have a good day. Try to enjoy something once in a while.
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