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  #51  
Old 07-18-2017, 02:10 AM
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I grew up in California and graduated high school in 2003. I remember not being allowed much. When I moved to Texas I was so stoked that I could buy a gun and walk out with the gun and ammo all in one on the same day.
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  #52  
Old 07-18-2017, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by 4T5GUY View Post
Well, one thing that has not been mentioned, so far, is what happened to all of the F.F.L. holders. Me included. I was a "gunsmith", and was trying to do things right. Log in, log out. I was working out of my home. That was not acceptable. I was treated just like a firearms seller. I dug my feet in for a while, but after too many very threatening letters, I gave up and just sent in by bound book. Even though I explained what I was doing, I was required to show a "store front" sign, and all of the security systems I had. The pictures of my house and my wolf dog was not good enough.
The close friend with an FFL I mentioned in my earlier post was a Waterbury, CT cop. Operating out of his home, I'd guess 98% of his sales where to fellow cops, word of mouth. He followed all the "rules", but with the left leaning bent of both the state of CT and the fed gov., he was harassed until his own department told him to give up his FFL, or risk his job. Nice. That happened to more than a few FFL's I knew back then, including guys who depended on their FFL's as their sole income.

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Old 07-18-2017, 02:30 AM
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Another thought, how that ban has almost come full circle. After the ban ended, I found a distributor that had brand new FEG made Browning HP 10 round mags for a ridiculous price of like two or three bucks each. Owning a HP and an FEG copy, I figured why not, and ordered 25 of them. They came in a box, each wrapped in Hungarian news paper. Apparently you could hardly give them away at the time. I used a couple on the range, and the rest still sit in a tub with a bunch of old holsters and stocks.

Fast forward to today, and all the states and localities with 10 round mag restrictions, and suddenly these mags are bringing money again.

Larry
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  #54  
Old 07-18-2017, 03:51 PM
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Well, one thing that has not been mentioned, so far, is what happened to all of the F.F.L. holders.
I don't remember if it was connected to the ban or not but I remember a lot of F.F.L. holders letting their license go because of increased scrutiny by Uncle Sam. People who had their license so they could collect guns easier didn't want to give away the rights they were asked to give up.

I wish I knew the details better. It's been a while ago. But I do remember friends who had their F.F.L. for many years letting it go about that time.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:38 PM
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I wanted an M1A/M14 rifle then...and the impending ban forced the issue. I borrowed some dollars from my wife and bought a new Polytech M14...Then during the ban I bought another Poly M14 cheaper at a gunshow...then a Springfield M1A...and several hi-capacity pistols and numerous hi-cap mags both pistol and rifle at gunshows. I always shopped gunshows then and never felt I paid too much for any of the guns and mags I bought. I even bought a relatively rare and banned Daewoo K1A1 carbine(Stoeger import Max I) for cheap!

At least in Oklahoma the ban wasn't that big an issue. I do miss the Daewoo cheap Daewoo assault rifles and missed out entirely on the Chinese AK's
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  #56  
Old 07-18-2017, 05:01 PM
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Things were great before, we had the new to our shore Chinese and Russian sks's, cheap Chinese norinco ammo. A $59 sks? Man I was fat dumb and happy. Then slick Willy stopped the imports from China. Then the ban hit. But the flood gates for the military surplus ammo opened up.
This was awesome, we had a flood of cheap surplus military ammo to shoot up. Feed those old surplus military rifles that had history behind them. On another forum years later we talked about what would dry up first. The surplus guns or surplus ammo? A few months later the surplus ammo started selling out one caliber at a time. The 8mm Mauser, 7.65 argentine, 303 Britt, 7mm Mauser, 6.5 Swede, all started drying up. I think we only have the 7.62x54R Russian left now, there was handgun ammo that was cheaper than cheap, the 9mm largo, the 7.62 nagant, the 7.62x25 tokarev, ext that's all gone.

When I got into the surplus stuff I thought there was a gazillion supply of endless guns and ammo. I thought wrong. The bans put on us didn't help either.

The new imported ammo from Europe seems here to stay. The Yugoslav company FOM was the first to offer the new French mas 7.5 ammo here then they increased the calibers, the Russian Barnaul was really accurate, and affordable, the wolf ammo is still somewhat affordable. The Winchester metric, wolf gold, is made in the former Yugoslavia. The S&B ammo is loaded we're it should be while the American suppliers cut back on the power charge for the military surplus guns. I find the S&B ammo very accurate too. The brass from the former Yugoslav is excellent for reloading. If you stay away from the higher powder charges you can reload the 6.5 Swede up to 15 times.

Overall it was nice for a decade or so shooting the military surplus ammo and not reloading it.

Ah the good old days came and went away in my lifetime. But I haven't used up my very first 1440rd case of norinco yellow box 7.62x39 yet. It's very accurate like 1 1/2" groups in a sks at 100yds, iron sights.

If you missed these times, they were great times, enjoy.
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  #57  
Old 07-18-2017, 05:39 PM
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I remember a friend paying through the nose for a pair of ARs.I also remember him paying top dollar for a little stockpile of gold around that time.A few years later after watching real estate prices skyrocket in his area he bought a house right at the peak of the market.
Dan had terrible timing!
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  #58  
Old 07-18-2017, 06:04 PM
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I remember seeing a lot of "pre ban" AR15s at gun shows for $1500+ and $40 30rd mags. Then I saw pretty much the same thing a few years ago during the panic. I reckon we'll see it again... I already had a Block17 with plenty of 17rd mags before the ban but during the ban I purchased a Glop19 and paid a premium for 15rd mags. There was a ton of pre ban stuff everywhere.

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Old 07-18-2017, 06:29 PM
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The latest shooting in New town, Connecticut is when I bought my last AR-15 at our local Walmart for 998 Dollars.
I still have it still in the box un-fired.
It is a Beast master.
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  #60  
Old 07-18-2017, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Wee Hooker View Post
I remember it like it was yesterday. Mainly because MASS still has it in effect.
The sad part is that banning a firearm based on a couple of superficial features still makes no sense some 23 years later. Nor has it had an effect on gun violence. Legislators can be notoriously slow learners.
Yep. Reading this thread doesn't bring back any memories for me because this is still our pathetic reality today.

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Think of how many folks bought pistols chambered in 45ACP thinking that if I can have only ten, then let's make them big ones!
Some of us still think that way. I like my .45's to be 10+1 standard capacity (hence my M&P45, my HK45, my RI 1911A2 and my desire for a P227 and not a P220). The same thinking applies to newer "post-ban" 9mm compact pistols... 10+1 is as good as it gets for us.
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Old 07-18-2017, 07:34 PM
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I remember buying 4 ten round magazines for my 2 Glock pistols. I told myself that I'd use them for practice and keep the 15 round magazines for serious stuff. That is what I did until '04. I still have those magazines and sometimes use the G19 variants with 115 gr. JHP ammo for IWB carry. I normally stoke the 19 with 15 147 gr. ammo but that's too much weight for IWB. I think it's a good compromise.
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  #62  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:02 PM
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When the AWB went in to effect I was a few months from my 22nd birthday... fully immersed in the hobby but with the bankroll of a typical guy of that age. I got to shoot issued M-16's once a year at the SAFS at Camp Perry and enjoyed the experience but definitely not so much that I wanted one, so I never considered one before or during.

I grew up reading every issue of Guns & Ammo cover to cover, twice. It was probably Jeff Cooper that made me a card-carrying "crunchenticker" hater. Double stack hi-cap pistols were something I snarked at, almost as if you "only needed all that ammo because 9mm sucked or you couldn't hit your target..."

Even so, the impending doom made me want to buy a handgun that I had very little interest in. While I probably should have went after a 5906, the "handgun editor" of Guns & Ammo at time, Jan Libourel, had me quite convinced that a Taurus PT-92/99 was the most bang for the buck, so that's what I bought.

I never enjoyed that pistol for a number of years until I finally decided to handload my own 9mm for it, and I've honestly liked it ever since. I rarely shoot it anymore... but I do put a ridiculous volume of 9mm through my many S&W pistols nowadays.

When you are staring down horrible legislation, it doesn't feel at all like a "period of time", it honestly feels like -FOREVER- and heck yes, it warps your perception.
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Old 07-18-2017, 08:15 PM
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In for later

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Old 07-18-2017, 08:41 PM
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Have a bunch of those. My carry gun is a 2003 (ban era) G19 and the mag I'm still using in it is LE restricted

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I still carry that one around every day too. That's why it was so handy to nab a pic when I read the OP.
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  #65  
Old 07-18-2017, 08:53 PM
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I was in college when the ban was passed. The day after the vote I called up and ordered twenty five unissued 15rd M-1 Carbine mags plus five 30rd mags. I think I paid $5 a piece for the 15rd mags and $8 for the 30rd mags. When they arrived a few days later I checked to make sure I got what I ordered, sealed the box back up, and put it in my closet. The box is still there, untouched since 1994. I already had dozens of mags when I ordered the extra's, and USGI M-1 mags last a long time.

I was talking with some young guys at the range recently and referred to a rifle (Colt HBar) as "pre ban". They didn't know what I was talking about. I explained the ban to them, they couldn't believe there was a law like that. I couldn't believe how old that conversation made me feel.
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:03 PM
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I arrived from England in the middle of that nonsense. Even with my limited firearms knowledge back then it seemed dumb to exclude things based on features that in no way affect the operation or lethality of the weapon. The long term result of that period is that there are now several states where my boss knows that no matter what the requirement, don't bother asking me.
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Old 07-18-2017, 10:50 PM
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After one of the ammo shortages I think after the first one the 7.62x29 was $59 for 1,000 rds for Russian Barnaul fmj ammo at Sportsman's guide. They seem to be the best at supporting our hobby. The ranout of Barnaul and offered wolf ammo in its place.

When the Chinese norinco ammo was offered the first cases were paper wrapped tied with string three strippers with 10 rds each. Then came the norinco yellow box, green box, the silver box was the last of it. It was just before clintons ban on importing Chinese products.

The sks's were about to soar between $750/$1,000 when the import of the Yugoslav sks arrived. This was advertised as the finest quality built sks, but no chrome lined bores. The bore diameter is different than the rest. It ran larger. It was .3115" on some of them. Now take your .308" to .310" bullets it made for a inaccurate sks. The Albanian sks was here before the Yugoslav, again the claim was they were the best. Right now there's the North Korean sks which is around $3,000+++. Silly isn't it. I stuck through thick and thin with my $59 norinco sks. Spending $3k for an sks that's three n frame s&w revolvers, well close.

My very first c&r surplus military rifle was a Turkish m38 8mm Mauser from aim surplus for $39.95.

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Old 07-19-2017, 12:35 AM
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I had bought a case, (I think it was 30 mags) of 25 round mags for ruger 10-22's a few years before, they were some off brand and would give up after a 1000 rounds or so but they were cheep and I doled them out to my boys one at a time. After the ban I went to a gun show and they were selling for 50 bucks each............no brainer I went home got the case or what was still in it and went back and sold them all in about an hour. bought a AR, never had wanted one but had to have it. sheese
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Old 07-19-2017, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by BigBill View Post
After one of the ammo shortages I think after the first one the 7.62x29 was $59 for 1,000 rds for Russian Barnaul fmj ammo at Sportsman's guide. They seem to be the best at supporting our hobby. The ranout of Barnaul and offered wolf ammo in its place.

When the Chinese norinco ammo was offered the first cases were paper wrapped tied with string three strippers with 10 rds each. Then came the norinco yellow box, green box, the silver box was the last of it. It was just before clintons ban on importing Chinese products.

The sks's were about to soar between $750/$1,000 when the import of the Yugoslav sks arrived. This was advertised as the finest quality built sks, but no chrome lined bores. The bore diameter is different than the rest. It ran larger. It was .3115" on some of them. Now take your .308" to .310" bullets it made for a inaccurate sks. The Albanian sks was here before the Yugoslav, again the claim was they were the best. Right now there's the North Korean sks which is around $3,000+++. Silly isn't it. I stuck through thick and thin with my $59 norinco sks. Spending $3k for an sks that's three n frame s&w revolvers, well close.

My very first c&r surplus military rifle was a Turkish m38 8mm Mauser from aim surplus for $39.95.
I remember when there were only a handful of Yugo SKS rifles in the country (like 100 or so). IIRC they had been brought in by KBI or American Arms? Anyways, I recall one bringing something in the neighborhood for $4-4.5k about 15 years ago. The flood gates opened on those guns soon after that.
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Old 07-19-2017, 07:56 AM
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This was advertised as the finest quality built sks, but no chrome lined bores. The bore diameter is different than the rest. It ran larger. It was .3115" on some of them. Now take your .308" to .310" bullets it made for a inaccurate sks. The Albanian sks was here before the Yugoslav, again the claim was they were the best. Right now there's the North Korean sks which is around $3,000+++. Silly isn't it. I stuck through thick and thin with my $59 norinco sks. Spending $3k for an sks that's three n frame s&w revolvers, well close.

My very first c&r surplus military rifle was a Turkish m38 8mm Mauser from aim surplus for $39.95.
7.62x39 is .312. in actuality bullet diameter is 7.92. There were never .308 SKS and Yugo is no different. Although it will vary slightly from country to country no SKS were .308. If there were barrels would open up quickly..... squeezing a .310 - .312 bullet through a .308 barrel. Mosin and AK are the same.....7.92mm. 7.62x54 was a derivative of the 8x52R Mannlicher

.308 is a western bullet dimension. The closest to .308 eastern Europe had was the 7.62x25 Tokarev, which measured 7.82.

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Old 07-19-2017, 02:47 PM
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my desire for a P227 and not a P220
I gave up carrying my much loved P220 because of capacity and because I found a much smaller pistol with 10+1. It was a Taurus PT-145. Yeah that was my first thought too but the guy who owns the closest LGS to my house spent several days convincing me to give one a try. The price was insanely good and he gave me a 30 day, no questions asked try out period. I thought I really couldn't go wrong with a deal like that.

Much to my surprise that Taurus shot with amazing accuracy and it still to this day has never had a feeding issue or failure of any kind. And I've put at least 5000 rounds through it. It wouldn't shoot accurately as far as my Sig but it did great to 25 yards. And I can hide it in the palm of my hand.

Then there was the fact it was a double stack that was not thicker than most single stack pistols. I've wondered if was really a TARDIS instead of a Taurus (bigger on the inside than on the outside - Dr. Who thing).

I love that little pistol to this day. I no longer carry it concealed because of the recall but I keep it under the place I sleep for instant access. I have a laser mounted on it which is zeroed perfectly and has been for many years.

I went with an even bigger capacity pistol for CCW (Springfield XDm in .40 - 16+1). But that Taurus was much easier to carry on the waistband. I use a shoulder holster for the SA.

People malign Taurus a lot and they deserve a lot of it. But sometimes they build a real winner. They would buy back my PT-145 right now if I chose to sell it. But the thing is crazy accurate and reliable as heck. And yes I have dropped it without any issues. I won't carry it where I might drop it again just to be on the safe side. But just as an example I hit 2 .45 casings at 20 yards on the first shot with that pistol. I also put 11 rounds in a 8" target at 25 yards in 10 seconds. It has the best follow up shots of any big bore pistol I ever shot. I wouldn't sell it for double what I paid for it.

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Old 07-19-2017, 03:45 PM
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The ruger mini 30 had a .308" bore and it shot 7.62 x 39 ammo. Larger bullet. One must be careful with what diameter bullet in which 7.62 x 39 gun.
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:44 PM
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Sorry clintons did it and I still hate their juts.......Glad it sunsetted.........
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:47 PM
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Not being a fan of plastic guns or the .223, I did buy a Ruger mini14, stainless with wood stock. I may have shot 2 boxes of ammo since 94 and I really don't know why I keep it.
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Old 07-19-2017, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Valmet View Post
I posed this question over on GlockTalk a few years back and am curious to the recollections of members over here (though some are surely members of both)...

For those of us who have been into firearms long enough, what do you remember about the 1994-2004 Crime Bill ban? I'll start-

- $100-125 Glock magazines
-Neutered ARs with collapsible stocks pinned opened and goofy muzzle-brakes
-Folks paying primo prices for pre-94 AR lowers to slap a then-new 6920 upper on them for a "real" Colt M4A3.
I remember silliness that accomplished nothing, except photo opps for Clinton and Feinstein.

Last edited by HOUSTON RICK; 07-19-2017 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 07-20-2017, 03:21 PM
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Ugh!!! PTSD-Agida, man that's bad. I was an 01 FFL, summer of '94 selling off S&W and Ruger Sixguns to get any "wondernines" available-now. All the guns had one mag already, and marked as such on the box, they knew. Sold everything and then September, winter came early. $150 Glock mags, AR mags over $75 a pop. "Thumbhole buttstocks" yuk. I did sell battlefield pickup Egyptian Maadi AK's for triple. Cobray M11 (closed bolt type) for $375 that I got for $165. KY Imports in Kentucky had "new, old stock" model 27's for $229, but who wanted those. At the end of 1995, after LLoyd Bentsen's "assault" on dealers, I was persuaded to "not renew" my FFL by a particularly nasty ATF agent from the Tampa office. All these years later and it still brings on wild anxiety. Joe
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:19 PM
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In the months before the ban went into effect......stopping at a local police supply house and buying 2-3 hicap Beretta mags a visit at $15 a mag........ they had like 5000 in the basement.......AR mags were even less.......... 99% of their business was Departmental...... so selling me 25-30- was no skin off their bottom line....
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Old 07-20-2017, 06:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pharmer View Post
At the end of 1995, after LLoyd Bentsen's "assault" on dealers, I was persuaded to "not renew" my FFL by a particularly nasty ATF agent from the Tampa office. All these years later and it still brings on wild anxiety. Joe
I would really love to hear mire about this, and detailed REAL experiences. In this thread or in another thread.
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Old 07-20-2017, 07:02 PM
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I remember a Federal firearms instructor assisting some of his people at our range. He became an instant expert concerning the higher-cap LE magazines his people were using. He told them they had to be careful and not lose them, as they would have to sign to turn them in at the end of their LE service and would have a problem if unable to do so.

I remember magazine articles touting pistol-caliber lever action rifles as acceptable SA rifle substitutes.

I also remember the 1992 SA rifle ban in NYC which pre-dated the Federal legislation. SA owners had to change the registration of, and move, their longarms to addresses outside of NYC.

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P.S. BTW, those 10 round magazines need not go to waste. They can be used at range practice and I have read of a handgun match that requires 10 round capacity only.
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Old 07-21-2017, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
I would really love to hear mire about this, and detailed REAL experiences. In this thread or in another thread.
+1, I would as well
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Old 07-21-2017, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valmet View Post
Okie- yes, I have a few of those in my box of Glock mags as well. More .40 than anything as that was the most popular LE caliber.
All my 4006 magazines have that stamp on them
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