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  #1  
Old 07-17-2017, 11:44 PM
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Have an old Belgian Mauser and want to turn it... Have an old Belgian Mauser and want to turn it... Have an old Belgian Mauser and want to turn it... Have an old Belgian Mauser and want to turn it... Have an old Belgian Mauser and want to turn it...  
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Default Have an old Belgian Mauser and want to turn it...

... into a long range precision rifle.

I have been looking at the Archangel polycarb stocks for Mausers and just wondered if any of you have taken on such a project?

I miss having a truly long range rifle at the house. I've got a Rock River Arms LAR-15 in 5.56 but that hardly fills the bill.

The Mauser I have is in 30-06 and was sporterized long before it came to me, so there won't be any decrease in value by switching out the stock. The added bonus is the new stock has a rail system on it I can add a decent scope to without having to do any metal work.

Anyway, let me know whatcha think folks.

Thanks~
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:10 AM
Frank46 Frank46 is offline
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Not to try and change your mind regarding your choice of either swapping the stock out for your '06 which was winning matches at up to 1000 yds long before shooting long range or reworking it to fit your needs. Now having said all that, try finding a used Remington 700 varmint rifle or sendero in 308. Or even a nice Savage 110 FP or the newer model 10FP. in 308. I've both a Remington Sendero in 308 and a Savage 110 FP and both have the heavier barrels, better triggers and in the case of the sendero a composite stock where the older Savage 110FP has the plastic stock. And don't tell anyone but my Savage outshoots the Remington. Check out some of the long range websites and see what some of the shooters there are using. SWFA has some good deals on their long range scopes. Hope this helps you out. Frank
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:11 AM
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Since it was what I call butchered ( any old military rifle cut up or sporterized) already what I'd suggest is you bed it in your new stock and if not already look for a "good" civilian trigger like a Timney to put in it. I've found that by good bedding and a good crisp light trigger even those old timers can shoot along side a new standard rifle. That said, by the time to get the stock and trigger, then a decent glass bed job you'll be in it at least half of what you could pick up a good used Savage or Rem 700 with a heavy contour barrel. Personally, for the money you aint gonna beat a Savage FP. I have an old 110FP in 308 Win that in it's new Choate stock will hang with any .308 out there. That old Savage came with a great 3 screw trigger. I like it better than my M12 with the new Accu trigger. The 3 screw trigger in it breaks at 1.5 lbs like glass. Besides, with a Savage even it you pick one up for cheap with a worn barrel you can swap out a new barrel at home in about 10 minutes. Try that with a Mauser. Remington 700 or Win Mod. 70.
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Old 07-18-2017, 02:41 AM
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I really like my Mausers, and have sportsterized a few, but as others have said, by the time a good heavy barrel is fitted (desirable for real long range consistency) a good trigger and stock, you are into it for at least what a HB Savage will cost you, and those new Savages are proven performers. Also, lock time is slow and heavy with a 98 Mauser, enough so it can make a difference in real long range precision.

Taking a look at that stock with the built in scope rail, I can not believe it would give anywhere near real long range precision. The barreled action will move, if even slightly, in the stock, effecting your POI. Real accuracy starts with the scope mounted firmly to the gun itself.

Larry

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Old 07-18-2017, 07:58 AM
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If your Belgian is rechambered from 7.65mm (many were), you might get better performance by loading your .30-06 with .311-.312 bullets intended for the "European .30s", .303 British, 7.62x54R Russian, 7.7 Arisaka, and of course, 7.65x53 Mauser and others. But, maybe you already knew that and do that. Please do keep us posted.

Larry
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Old 07-18-2017, 09:35 AM
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If you want truly long range accuracy forget Archangel. Their products are mainly for Goobers! Look at their product lineup. Sniper stocks for Mosin Nagants, AKs, Mini14, SKS. None of these are know for extreme accuracy and slapping a stock on one doesn't turn it into a sniper rifle. All it does is separate the money from the fool. Guy buying that stock is probably the same who tries to justify carrying a Desert Eagle .50.

Go with a company that's known for precision stocks. Or better yet start with a rifle already closer to what your looking for. Like someone else said. . Remington 700, Savage, etc...etc.. These rifles are accurate out of the box and have a ton of aftermarket accessories

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Old 07-18-2017, 09:37 AM
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Is your old Belgian Muaser an old military rifle or a FN built commercial Mauser action. It will make a difference because they stock may work for one and not the other.

What caliber are you looking at? If you're thinking 6.5-284 Norma or just a plain .284 Winchester a 98 Mauser action is the way to go. Overall cartridge length works well in the Mauser 57mm case based action length and the action rails will not need to be modified.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:30 PM
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I been buying Swede m94 carbine Mauser that were sporterized by cutting the stocks. I was lucky enough to find two complete m94 Swede stock sets with metal. Now I have two m94's. This wasn't cheap to do but my heart was in it to bring them back to orginal looking.

I purchased a German 98k 8mm Mauser with a sewer pipe bore for $30. I found a excellent large ring barrel at e gun parts for $37. My first barrel change out. The headspace is dead nuts on the go gauge, I mounted a scope, refinished the orginal m98k stock. Now she's a looker too. The orginal Mauser look is awesome. She's a Sporter but looks orginal. E gun parts only had a Czech 8mm large ring barrel. The German handguard is different. I used the Czech handguard. This cost me under $200.

My next project is a fn small ring Mauser it's 30cal. I want to make it in 7.62x39 for my grandsons first deer rifle.

Do what you want but make it purdy too.

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Old 07-18-2017, 05:15 PM
2152hq 2152hq is offline
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A Belgian made Mauser (any contract 98 mfg'd by F/N),,or a 98 specificly made for Belgium in the interwar years (Model 1935 Belgian Mauser made by F/N).
I'm leaving out the '89 Belgian ('91 Argentine), but I have seen some conversions of those too.

The latter is a somewhat rare rifle (short rifle?) only made for about 5 years in the late 30's AFAIK. The action alone from one would probably bring a decent dollar to a custom builder if not too badly modified.

The former could be any number of contract rifles or carbines. Some of the South American contract guns with the high charger hump bring great interest to the custom builders,,again lack of modifications increase value. Current rebarreling usually isn't an issue as they want the action only.
What I'm getting at is the action on the sporterized rifle may be worth more as-is to sell. Then take the profit and put it into another better suited project gun for L/R shooting.

Just a thought.

They (Mausers, 03's,Enfields) are fun to tinker and build on though. Lots of bbls, triggers, stocks and sight options to work with.
It's a labor of love but that's what hobbys are.
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Old 07-19-2017, 04:18 PM
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Sad but true some of there older war horses shoot more accurate over a newer rifle. Mine are really constant. It makes me a proud papa when a SWAT guys at the range come over to see what in shooting that's more accurate over there scoped rifles. Their jaws dropped when I told them I'm shooting a 1907 Swede 6.5mm rifle.

As the Swede Mauser prices were climbing and a shortage began I purchased barreled receivers and stock sets and assembled Swede Mausers. This one is one of them.

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Old 07-22-2017, 12:42 AM
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Lock speed, getting a new trigger, bbl, stock will make it a nice shooter. But you may spend a lot of money to make a 400 yard deer rifle.

I have redone many mauser actions, old, FN and 4 new ones from CZ.

I stocked them in wood, glass bedded and fiberglass. I used new bbls, mostly Mc gowen. I killed lots of deer, made money and only one did I consider long range, 400 yards. It was a light 6.5 Swede and it was a deer stopper.

I sort of know how you feel. I wanted to make my own and did.

If you are wanting a long range rifle spend a little for a good platform. If I ever build one it will be the new Savage. Buy it, shoot it and make changes where you feel long distance accuracy will be improved.

Sure in WW 2 a mauser tricked out made a good sniper rifle.

I have my Dad's pre 64 M 70 in 270 win. It did not group to his wants. He sent it back to them 3 times. I still have one of the Winchester responses. Dad shot a scoped 03 A3 in North Africa. He knew about shooting long range.

He had a Lyman scope on it. Some of the folks who saw Dad shoot are still alive. I saw him shoot a 5 shot group smaller than a baseball at 500 yards. Before every deer season folks would say, I was with your Dad when he shot a big deer at 500 yards in the Kelly fields or a big buck over 500 yards in the bottoms. I've owned a M70 collection, only q 270 and one pre war SG in 06 would shoot with it.

Keep in mind Winchester worked on it several times. Dad polished the bore and several other things.

There was a gunsmith in our town, he made nice rifles out of old military mausers. He was a good shot. He could not win if Dad was there. He built a new rifle every year in '06 and never did beat Dad.

So here is the crux of getting a good platform and tuning it vs converting a rifle made to work every time in combat. I love Mausers. I have a commercial FN in 300 win mag in a beautiful browning stock. It is what it is, a nice accurate hunting rifle.

I've had bad luck with the 700 bull bbl in 308. One of the least accurate rifles I've ever owned. Another's ejector kept breaking.

If it were me I'd go get the Savage and start your project after you've shot it.

Hope it works out well for you.
Duane.
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Old 07-22-2017, 08:54 AM
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Default So, Frank46, I've been looking into your advice and ...

... what you have said makes a lot of sense, which has led me to start looking for a Savage 110FP, in .308. They have an amazing reputation and I've found a few at what I would consider reasonable prices.

I do like the idea of upgrading the stock to the picture I have in my mind. Have you ever dealt with Choate stocks before? The one I have been "scoping" out (see what I did there LOL!) is this one: Choate Ultimate Sniper Savage Stock, I have a URL from eabco.net which is not pasting at all for some reason.
I do like the idea that the stock was designed by "Major John L. Plaster, author of the best selling book The Ultimate Sniper... A masterpiece reference of shooting and fieldcraft. Maj. Plaster is the designer of this stock and that's why it's named after his book." Quoting from the web page.
Major John L. Plaster is one of the leading sniper experts in the world. Here's a URL to his wikipedia page: John Plaster - Wikipedia
It turns out that Major Plaster has been the precision rifle instructor at the Gunsite Training Center in Paulden, Arizona, since 1993. He was recently Chief of Competition for Autauga Arms's U.S. and European sniping championships.

Anyway, I'd enjoy hearing what your considerable more experience has to say about the stock. I have shot sniper rifles before and do like the ergonomics of this stock, at least from what I can gather from merely looking at it. My favorite shooting position with long range rifles is from the prone position, which is what this stock is primarily designed for.

So Frank46, and of course anyone else who might read this, I'd like to hear what you think about this new approach. Leaving the Belgian rifle alone is actually what I'd prefer to do, I was just trying to cut a few corners. Though I have a lot of experience with doing the corner cutting with other projects which turned out costing more in the long run. As an example of that, I had the bright idea of dropping a very large engine into a Mazda MX-5, you know, a Miata. In any case after discovering that a company was already doing this for a significant sum, of course, I decided to skip that (the cost was almost twice as much as I paid for the Mercedes CLK550 I bought!) and just buy a small convertible that already had a very large engine in it. So I found a 2009 Mercedes Benz CLK550 (5.5 liter V-8, nearly 400 horsepower and nearly 400 foot pounds of torque. 0 to 60 mph in 4.4 seconds. For guys my age, those are numbers that the supercars of my era were turning out for goodness sakes) at an excellent price that I managed to deal on and got the price down to where it cost less than our Ford Sport Trac had cost, plus I haggled a bit more and got a 3 year powertrain and engine warranty for the Mercedes as well. That experience convinced me that at times cutting corners, under certain circumstances, is really like jumping over dollars to pick up pennies.

Hope your weekend(s) are going well and that you get to shoot at least a bit.

Enjoy!



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Not to try and change your mind regarding your choice of either swapping the stock out for your '06 which was winning matches at up to 1000 yds long before shooting long range or reworking it to fit your needs. Now having said all that, try finding a used Remington 700 varmint rifle or sendero in 308. Or even a nice Savage 110 FP or the newer model 10FP. in 308. I've both a Remington Sendero in 308 and a Savage 110 FP and both have the heavier barrels, better triggers and in the case of the sendero a composite stock where the older Savage 110FP has the plastic stock. And don't tell anyone but my Savage outshoots the Remington. Check out some of the long range websites and see what some of the shooters there are using. SWFA has some good deals on their long range scopes. Hope this helps you out. Frank
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Old 07-22-2017, 02:46 PM
44wheelman 44wheelman is offline
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I have a Mauser that was converted by Winslow arms to 7mm Rem mag in a hunting config. It was $500 back in the day when bargains could still be found on the auction sites. I'm sure it would cost more than twice that to have that amount of work done now.

In contrast my fp110 I bought off my brother was about the same price and included scope & bi-pod. I was at the range when he shot a 3 shot 3/8" group at 100 with it the year before.
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Old 07-23-2017, 12:35 AM
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I'd reccomend getting the sagave in a long action. This way when you seat your bullets out long to be close to the lands your rounds would fit in the magazine. Boyd's gunstocks has target type stocks of laminated wood. andas for barrels Douglas I believe will still fit a barrel to your action. get a good trigger and good scope and your off to the range. Try some Sierra 175 grain match kings at the longer distances. Frank
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Old 07-23-2017, 03:33 PM
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If this project is only to build a long range rifle with no attached
sentimental value to the rifle, you are going to spend a lot of
money to arrive with a true long distance rifle. The best you can
hope for is a 400yd deer rifle. There are a lot of rifles on the
market that will do this for about the same cost as a premium
barrel installed. I'm a pre 64 Win 70 and 98 guy. I have had
several rifles built on 98s, both military and commercial. All were
accurate hunting rifles, but I would say that they were on par
with my M70s & SAKOs. The exception being a 243 built as a
heavy bench varmit gun. I always wanted to get a 300H&H
built as long range, bull barrel but never got around to it.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:21 PM
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Default So Frank46 ...

I really appreciate you taking the time to answer my questions. One thing I can't believe I hadn't caught was that you were typing from New Iberia, Louisiana! The home of my favorite American hot sauce, the one and only Mc Ilhenny Tabasco pepper sauce. How the heck could I miss that? One other food thing, being a guy from Louisiana (just guessing, I mean you could be from anywhere, but you at least live in the state with parishes and not counties) do you eat Mayhaw Jelly? I LOVE that stuff and just found a place online that sells it. Backstory: I had a buddy from Alexandria, Louisiana, he even dated Faith Ford, the gal who played the ditzy blonde on Murphy Brown in the '80's. (He even got a shout out from her on the Tonight Show (the Jay Leno version) once where she smacked him for breaking up with her and Jay Leno jumped on the bandwagon and helped with the smackdown! Funny stuff!) Anyway, his "Maw Maw" used to send him her homemade Mayhaw Jelly from home and I was always given a jar for helping him out when he was a struggling student. I had never had it before, but dog gone it was delicious stuff and I haven't had it for years, so I'm always a bit jealous of ya'll getting that awesome stuff nice and fresh. Not to mention crawfish ... it's just not fair that I love those little guys so much and can only get them frozen up here in Virginia.
Anyway, thanks again Frank, I surely do appreciate your expertise and help.
Take care~


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I'd reccomend getting the sagave in a long action. This way when you seat your bullets out long to be close to the lands your rounds would fit in the magazine. Boyd's gunstocks has target type stocks of laminated wood. andas for barrels Douglas I believe will still fit a barrel to your action. get a good trigger and good scope and your off to the range. Try some Sierra 175 grain match kings at the longer distances. Frank
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:26 PM
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Default Drm 50 ...

I think I have settled on a Savage for the project, but I'll check out the pre-64 Win 70 & 98's, before I make my actual purchase.
Thanks so much for adding to the discussion, it's always nice when someone pops in and throws new information into the mix. I like getting as much input as I can from wiser folks before I make decisions like these, so I'm much obliged for the input.
Thanks again~



Quote:
Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
If this project is only to build a long range rifle with no attached
sentimental value to the rifle, you are going to spend a lot of
money to arrive with a true long distance rifle. The best you can
hope for is a 400yd deer rifle. There are a lot of rifles on the
market that will do this for about the same cost as a premium
barrel installed. I'm a pre 64 Win 70 and 98 guy. I have had
several rifles built on 98s, both military and commercial. All were
accurate hunting rifles, but I would say that they were on par
with my M70s & SAKOs. The exception being a 243 built as a
heavy bench varmit gun. I always wanted to get a 300H&H
built as long range, bull barrel but never got around to it.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:35 PM
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Default 44 wheelman, just curious ...

What kind of scope did you get with that FP 110, the one that your brother shot the 3 shot 3/8" group at 100 with? And what kind of magnification does it have? Just looking for as much information from those of you with more time in with that kind of shooting than I have.
Thanks for your help~


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I have a Mauser that was converted by Winslow arms to 7mm Rem mag in a hunting config. It was $500 back in the day when bargains could still be found on the auction sites. I'm sure it would cost more than twice that to have that amount of work done now.

In contrast my fp110 I bought off my brother was about the same price and included scope & bi-pod. I was at the range when he shot a 3 shot 3/8" group at 100 with it the year before.
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Old 07-28-2017, 12:28 AM
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Go to the McMillan website and check out their stocks. Adjustable for length of pull and if it has an adjustable cheek piece. There are other stock companies that sell long range stocks. I can almost guarantee you that although the Choate stock may look nice it will not be what you are looking for or want/need. And no they are not cheap. I shot high power matches many many moons ago and all I had was a model 70 in 30-06 with the old marksman type wood stock. What they have and use today is light years from what I used. Evolution of target, match and long range stocks has come a long way. Even the older 40x stocks which were wood same as the marksman stocks has given way to a laminated wood thumbhole stock. You want a stock you can literally wrap yourself around to better hold and control any recoil forces. Frank
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