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  #1  
Old 07-27-2017, 01:45 AM
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Default Tried a new gun....an AR...

I tried a new gun today for the first time. An AR-15. I was darn impressed with it, mostly by the way it handled and the not-too-tough recoil. I had tried an AK a ways back and wasn't impressed at all by the ergonomics. It felt like I was shooting with a plank. I chalked it up for having too much expectations in shooting a real, live AK. But today the AR-15 provided instant satisfaction. It felt GOOD to shoot. AKs have a great history and are one of the most important guns ever made as well as the design for economics, ruggedness and practicality. But they still feel like shooting a plank.
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Old 07-27-2017, 04:30 AM
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AK's were designed for people who had never fired a gun and probably never even saw one before. They were peasant rifles. They just had to go boom every time. But they aren't all that bad as far as accuracy and a person can get used to the bad ergonomics. But to be honest I liked my SKS better than my AK. But of course I didn't have a full auto AK. That would make a difference.

And my AR's put both to shame of course. Too bad they lost a little something when the military dropped the twist rate down to 1:12 *sped up actually) because the bullets stopped tumbling when they did that. That's a theory I've heard anyway. We all like a much faster twist because it makes for more accuracy.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:40 AM
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I've avoided the AR thing until just recently, preferring the look of my Mini-14.
My ladyfriend bought one last year, and we've shot it quite a bit. I can certainly see the draw to them. They're easy to shoot well.
I recently picked one up, mostly because the deals are to good to pass on.
Jeff Cooper always proclaimed that, regardless of your feelings for it, all shooters should be familiar with the country's current service weapon.
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Old 07-27-2017, 05:59 AM
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21,000 posts on a gun forum and you've never shot an AR till today??

Well, guess there's a first time for everything!
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:17 AM
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Looks like you found out why it's so popular. I'm not much of a rifleman, but still own and enjoy shooting a AR. Nice too it has more accessories than Barbie.
If there's not one in every American household by now, there should be.
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Old 07-27-2017, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
21,000 posts on a gun forum and you've never shot an AR till today??

Well, guess there's a first time for everything!
Hey, some of us old geezers grew up on single shots, lever actions, and bolt guns. These new fangled semi auto thingamajigs look just a bit suspicious, especially when they don't even have any wood furniture on them.

Me, I didn't fire an AR until AFTER I had built one for myself. BTW, for me the biggest attraction for the AR platform is that it's a Tinker Toy for grown ups and there is such a wide variety of options and parts available that they are like Legos in that you can build almost anything you want to build. After I did my first AR I did a bit of poking around and found that you can acually build an AR with Wood Furniture if you want and sometime down the road I may actually do one up with a wood forearm and butt stock.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:19 AM
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Have a few of each. I find the ergonomics of both to be overrated. Both feel about the same to me.

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Old 07-27-2017, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
21,000 posts on a gun forum and you've never shot an AR till today??

Well, guess there's a first time for everything!
LOL, I have to admit I was thinking the same thing, while I was reading!
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:09 AM
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I had shot an AR before and had been contemplating building 1 for a while. Last Fall fear of what might happen in the election got me to go ahead and take the plunge. Mine is a bargain basement model in 300 Blackout with a Vortex red dot sight. Using 110 grain varmageddon bullets and 2400 powder makes for some dramatic milk jug busting.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:30 AM
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One of these days I'm actually gonna BUY an AR! I've got an AK, I've got a Mini 14. I like them both for "throw in the boat go into the marsh" guns(especially the Mini as I have it garbed out in A team fashion with an original Ruger folding stock). Pigs (Or Feral HOGS as they are called) are popular targets of opportunity and it is satisfying to unload either a Mini or an AK at them at 50 yards or so when you catch them on a levee or running down the side of a trenasse. Big ones we leave for the gators/coyotes-the little ones we bring back and give away if they ain't shot up too bad. Oh and it is fun to see what a 7.626x39 will do to a swimming nutria. An AR just seems...well too refined for such "peasant work". Much as I like the Mini, the larger caliber of he AK seems to do a better job on the hogs and makes for a bigger blow up on the nutria.

Besides my son has an AR so if I get the itch I'll just shoot his.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:46 AM
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rwsmith, welcome to the newbies club. A few months ago I was right there with you.

Before the 2016 election I thought I really "needed" an AR15. I did my research and decided to make it a project build with my grandson. During the build we discovered terms like boron nickle carrier groups, Geissele triggers, nitrite treated barrels, free floating handguards, etc. Man, these things can add up but when my daughter takes it out of my grandsons hands and says "my turn", it is all worth the effort and $$

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Old 07-27-2017, 09:57 AM
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You do realize the furniture on both rifles is customizable to fit you?

Both are good rifles but there is a reason I own 4 AKs but only 2 ARs
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:12 AM
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I have AR's..... got my first when I was about 45.....

Always "said I never had much use for one..... never said I didn't know how to use it!"

Couldn't hunt with a semi in Pa. until 7/1/17; couldn't run around the woods with one. Finally got one when I learned .223 was $3 for 20 rounds ...... not $20 like other centerfire ammo...... mags come in 5,10, 20 round SHTF size and supersized for TEOTWAWKI.

Like my esteemed colleague from Louisiana...... currently I prefer a Mini-14 for "backup" in the truck or RZR...... mine is the new version (NRA) with Hogue stock,10 round magazine ( 1-2 20s as back up) and a 1-3x20 Weaver scope......for it's low PC profile vs. a AR.

My preferred .223 for "walking in Penn's Woods" is a CZ 527FS/mannlicher with a 1-4X20 Leupold scope and 2-3 5 round detachable magazines.

For MOA shooting of any "Varmint" found in Pa.

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Old 07-27-2017, 10:19 AM
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I am not a AR-15 fan, and I own 2 of them.
They are kept "ready to fire" though.
I used them when they were issued to us in Viet-Nam.
I prefer the M-14, and own the Ruger version.
I like the Kel-Tec sub-2000 in 40sw caliber and it goes with me when I am driving into Dallas.
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Old 07-27-2017, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
I tried a new gun ... An AR-15.
I got to try one once, when the range officer put one in my hands. It's a good tool, but I just don't "connect" with it's form, like I do it's M1 predecessor.

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Old 07-27-2017, 11:03 AM
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Default As Garth and Wayne would say......

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Originally Posted by gnystrom View Post
rwsmith, welcome to the newbies club. A few months ago I was right there with you.

Before the 2016 election I thought I really "needed" an AR15. I did my research and decided to make it a project build with my grandson. During the build we discovered terms like boron nickle carrier groups, Geissele triggers, nitrite treated barrels, free floating handguards, etc. Man, these things can add up but when my daughter takes it out of my grandsons hands and says "my turn", it is all worth the effort and $$

EXCELLENT!!!
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrchuck View Post
I am not a AR-15 fan, and I own 2 of them.
They are kept "ready to fire" though.
I used them when they were issued to us in Viet-Nam.
I prefer the M-14, and own the Ruger version.
I like the Kel-Tec sub-2000 in 40sw caliber and it goes with me when I am driving into Dallas.
That's cool, you were one of the first introduced to the small bullet high velocity wonder!

I like my Kel Tec sub 2000 too. Yesterday I got the hang of it and shot it better than anything else at the session.
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:20 AM
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Default I can explain, I can explain!

Over 20000 posts. I've been shooting and reloading for almost 40 years. During most of that time, I had very few friends to shoot with and only a few of them had anything more than revolver or rifle. I had a revolver, a shotgun and a bolt rifle.

Fast forward to 2011. Because of the 'gun craze' and much more availability, plus the internet plus a boatload of other things, I've tried more new guns in the last five years than I did the 35 before that. I also had to retire early and am close to broke (thank goodness the wife is working but she's thinking about retiring) so I have only had a few guns myself, up until recently.

Some interesting ones I've added:

Arisaka 7.7
M1 Garand
1911 .45
AK 47
A dozen different 9mm pistols
Kel Tec Sub 2000
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Old 07-27-2017, 11:53 AM
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Welcome to the world of ARs... a lot of fun particularly if you like to tinker with guns like Scooter123 said. Beware, the AR platform aftermarket options can be as addicting as crack. Enjoy.

5.56 and .22LR...



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Old 07-27-2017, 12:45 PM
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I never felt I needed one, but I wanted one in case I did need it.
Larue PredatOBR.



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Old 07-27-2017, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scooter123 View Post
Hey, some of us old geezers grew up on single shots, lever actions, and bolt guns. These new fangled semi auto thingamajigs look just a bit suspicious, especially when they don't even have any wood furniture on them.

Me, I didn't fire an AR until AFTER I had built one for myself. BTW, for me the biggest attraction for the AR platform is that it's a Tinker Toy for grown ups and there is such a wide variety of options and parts available that they are like Legos in that you can build almost anything you want to build. After I did my first AR I did a bit of poking around and found that you can acually build an AR with Wood Furniture if you want and sometime down the road I may actually do one up with a wood forearm and butt stock.
And some of us "young whipper snappers" started on ARs, then moved to the wood n' steel classic single shots, bolts, and levers!!

PS: I'll take them over an AR-15 any day!!
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Old 07-27-2017, 02:06 PM
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JayFarmer, and some of us older whipper snappers were issued an 30 cal carbine and a ill fitting .45 before we climbed into our tanks.
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Old 07-27-2017, 03:31 PM
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I've been shooting over 50 years and from the start I was shooting semi-auto guns. I learned to shoot first with dad's semi-auto shotgun. He was big on kids learning with a shotgun because there was little danger of killing your neighbor half a mile away. Then I learned rifles using a Marlin 60. This was the middle 60's so they were a new thing at the time.

Along the way I've shot a lot of semi-auto .22's. And I got into semi-auto center fire rifles when I bought my SKS 25 years ago. That thing was a barrel of fun and still is actually. I had a number of semi-auto pistols too. I have only owned one revolver in my life which I still own. There's just something about shooting a pistol in SA mode that's satisfying.

I didn't get into AR's until just a few years ago. I always figured my SKS was plenty enough of a battle carbine for me. I never really thought I would need such a weapon but the fact is they're fun to shoot. I wanted an AR for a long time but felt they were over priced compared to a lot of other guns.

I did own an AK and didn't care much for it. It was one of those kit rifle monsters that was built badly. But even when it was working it wasn't as accurate as my SKS and it dang sure wasn't as reliable. The ergonomics didn't really bother me on either rifle but the SKS is much better IMO. It isn't good by any means but it's better than the AK. I could have gone bubba on both but that seemed to mess things up often.

I do like the added power of the 7.62 X 39 round but the accuracy and the ergonomics of the AR make it far superior. I could go with a Blackout but I have the SKS and that thing will do some serious penetration. Too bad there aren't cheap hollow points for it like there has always been cheap ball ammo. It will shoot right through a lot of sizeable trees for example. The AR won't do that as well.

I have the AR's here in my room with me along with a few pistols. I won't be going back to counting on the SKS as much for that remote possibility I might need such a weapon. IMO they're great for sending a pack of coyotes running if nothing else. Plus they scare my neighbors which is a good thing IMO. It keeps the break in crews from wanting to come to my house. Word gets around in my neighborhood. I have one of the few houses that was never broke into at least not while I was living there. I've been on hiatus from that house for too long because of a job situation.

There is definitely room in the world for single shot rifles (own a couple of those) and wood with blue steel beauty. I have some of those too. I like all of them. It makes for an expensive hobby that way but it beats watching TV.

And BTW my son and his cousin decided they wanted to shoot my SKS on their own. I had trained them well by that time. My daughter too. They spent a whole day building swinging targets to shoot at. I didn't have the heart to tell them the SKS would tear up the wood they were using in no time. But they build a nice set of targets and they proceeded (along with my daughter) shoot the thing to pieces. Semi-autos are fun. My son was maybe 13 at the time and my daughter was only 10. But her brother would watch out for her. I knew that. I also watched them from where they didn't know I was there to be sure they were following the rules I had repeated to them over and over again. They didn't mess up once. They had shot that SKS many times by then and they knew what to expect including how dangerous the thing is.

Last edited by C J; 07-27-2017 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 07-27-2017, 06:06 PM
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Default Forwards or backwards....

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And some of us "young whipper snappers" started on ARs, then moved to the wood n' steel classic single shots, bolts, and levers!!

PS: I'll take them over an AR-15 any day!!
Forwards or backwards we all get there sooner or later.


I was strictly a revolver, shotgun and bolt rifle guy for almost 40 years. It wasn't until 2012 that I started thinking seriously about SD and carry. Then came the semis. There went all my ammo.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:41 PM
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Well ....if any of you guys want to finally get into the game, now is the best time ever
to get at least one. AR's aren't going to get any cheaper this time.
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Old 07-27-2017, 08:51 PM
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I was raised with stories of the M1 Garand and shot M14s and M1As in service rifle competition in college, and thus when I was issued an M16A1, I had low expectations.

I was pleasantly surprised. The weight, balance, and handling was superb and I found it to be quite accurate (around 1.5 MOA) and more than adequate for minute of man accuracy out to 350 meters.

I never liked the M16A2, but none the less I eventually retired the M1A in service rifle competition for a A2 configured AR-15.

I also built a heavy barrel varmint AR, and over the years I've acquired our bought ARs in other configurations including ARs in .22 LR and 9mm Luger. Some get shot more than others but all of them are fun.
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Old 07-27-2017, 09:58 PM
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Nice thing about the AR15 and the post ban clones is that they are modular.

This post ban Bushmaster XM15-E2S is customized to my liking, but in a rather minimalist way.



Fixed buttstock with spacer to give me my favorite length of pull
Hogue ergonomic grip
Upgraded to JP trigger
Simple textured forend
Low cost Back Up Iron sights
Low cost red dot sight
I shoot 10 round magazines loaded 5 rounds at a time

I take newbies to the range and they all love to shoot the black rifle.
Short
Lightweight
Easy on the shoulder
Easy to take down
Easy to clean
Easy to replace moving parts
Makes me think of Freedom and Liberty
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:35 AM
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Default I'd be glad to have that .30 caliber carbine...

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Originally Posted by gnystrom View Post
JayFarmer, and some of us older whipper snappers were issued an 30 cal carbine and a ill fitting .45 before we climbed into our tanks.
But I can probably find a better .45 than one that has been is issue since WWI.

I had a friend that told me that his Garand threatened to fall apart during inspection it was so worn out. He wasn't in combat being a cold warrior in the '50's.
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Old 07-28-2017, 02:44 AM
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Default Some of us are slow starters....

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Originally Posted by C J View Post
I've been shooting over 50 years and from the start I was shooting semi-auto guns. I learned to shoot first with dad's semi-auto shotgun. He was big on kids learning with a shotgun because there was little danger of killing your neighbor half a mile away. Then I learned rifles using a Marlin 60. This was the middle 60's so they were a new thing at the time.

Along the way I've shot a lot of semi-auto .22's. And I got into semi-auto center fire rifles when I bought my SKS 25 years ago. That thing was a barrel of fun and still is actually. I had a number of semi-auto pistols too. I have only owned one revolver in my life which I still own. There's just something about shooting a pistol in SA mode that's satisfying.

I didn't get into AR's until just a few years ago. I always figured my SKS was plenty enough of a battle carbine for me. I never really thought I would need such a weapon but the fact is they're fun to shoot. I wanted an AR for a long time but felt they were over priced compared to a lot of other guns.

I did own an AK and didn't care much for it. It was one of those kit rifle monsters that was built badly. But even when it was working it wasn't as accurate as my SKS and it dang sure wasn't as reliable. The ergonomics didn't really bother me on either rifle but the SKS is much better IMO. It isn't good by any means but it's better than the AK. I could have gone bubba on both but that seemed to mess things up often.

I do like the added power of the 7.62 X 39 round but the accuracy and the ergonomics of the AR make it far superior. I could go with a Blackout but I have the SKS and that thing will do some serious penetration. Too bad there aren't cheap hollow points for it like there has always been cheap ball ammo. It will shoot right through a lot of sizeable trees for example. The AR won't do that as well.

I have the AR's here in my room with me along with a few pistols. I won't be going back to counting on the SKS as much for that remote possibility I might need such a weapon. IMO they're great for sending a pack of coyotes running if nothing else. Plus they scare my neighbors which is a good thing IMO. It keeps the break in crews from wanting to come to my house. Word gets around in my neighborhood. I have one of the few houses that was never broke into at least not while I was living there. I've been on hiatus from that house for too long because of a job situation.

There is definitely room in the world for single shot rifles (own a couple of those) and wood with blue steel beauty. I have some of those too. I like all of them. It makes for an expensive hobby that way but it beats watching TV.

And BTW my son and his cousin decided they wanted to shoot my SKS on their own. I had trained them well by that time. My daughter too. They spent a whole day building swinging targets to shoot at. I didn't have the heart to tell them the SKS would tear up the wood they were using in no time. But they build a nice set of targets and they proceeded (along with my daughter) shoot the thing to pieces. Semi-autos are fun. My son was maybe 13 at the time and my daughter was only 10. But her brother would watch out for her. I knew that. I also watched them from where they didn't know I was there to be sure they were following the rules I had repeated to them over and over again. They didn't mess up once. They had shot that SKS many times by then and they knew what to expect including how dangerous the thing is.
Some of us are slower to get started, but the lure is as sure as gravity and will win out sooner or later. For so many years just stayed with the basics.

It sounds like a lot of fun around your house!!!
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Old 07-28-2017, 09:15 AM
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Do your homework before buying. You don't need a $3000 AR. And you don't need half the stuff they sell to hang on it. But.......The beauty of it all is that you can if you want to.

I have a Rock River like this.


The most important feature of this AR is the two stage match trigger. IMO stock AR triggers stink. I like open sights so no optics. However, I've had this gun for quite a while and don't see as well as I used to. So optics are in my immediate future. I can add an optic to this gun but I'm wishing I would have bought a flat top with flip up sights.

Most people will not wear out a $700 AR with casual shooting. See if you find one with some of the features you want because it will save you money.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:45 AM
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I bought my first AR in last Dec. The condition of the world (and the U.S.) I decided I wanted one "just in case". It's a plain Jane DPMS, but with Factory ball it will shoot under 1" @ 100 yds., and with my handloads under 3/4". For anything longer than 100 yds I'll take my Rem 700 VS with Douglas (1-9") barrel that I feel comfortable with out to 500+ yards.
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Old 07-28-2017, 11:48 AM
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I got rid of my Ruger Mini 14 and bought my first AR-15. I liked the look and feel of the Mini 14 but I didn't like the accuracy. I now have 3 AR-15's and all of them shoot groups 1/2 the size of the Mini 14 groups I used to get.
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Old 07-28-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
It sounds like a lot of fun around your house!!!
I loved teaching my kids to shoot. My daughter got so good at it I almost had her convinced to try out for the Olympic team. She can go for a year then pick up a rifle and shoot better than I can. But she almost gave it up when her fiance shot first at the house one day and they she shot much better than he did. It was obvious that didn't sit real well with him. He wasn't a jerk about it or anything it just sort of embarrassed him. Heck she does that to me and I've been shooting 50 years. But she saw the winning target for the US woman who gold at the last Olympics and immediately she knew she could do better. She thought about it pretty serious but she has a job making a lot of money and a new house she just bought that she's working on with her bf. The husband turned out to be a jerk and he's gone but she still kinda hedges her shooting when she's around the bf. Still she picked up my AR for the first time and proceeded to shoot better than any of us including my son, her bf and me. She's pretty amazing at it. I'm no slouch with a rifle but she had a real gift.

My friends come to my house to shoot too. I have a good spot to shoot. My neighbors have sorta got tired of it but that had to do with another neighbor shooting pistols long after dark and they all thought I was the one doing it. Apparently they thought that was a bad idea. That's OK. I think their all night rock band and drug parties are a bad idea. It's apparently a different thing to play music so loud you can hear it a mile away until 4 in the morning.
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