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  #51  
Old 08-08-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Once again......

You can have your own opinion about Sig's but you can't have your own facts..............................................................

Sig Sauer P320 Fails Drop Test - YouTube
I'll stick to my glocks. I've drop them before on concrete with no ill effects.
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  #52  
Old 08-08-2017, 04:23 PM
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  #53  
Old 08-08-2017, 04:30 PM
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Mehhh, my guns don't magically drop from their holsters.
  #54  
Old 08-08-2017, 04:35 PM
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I can't believe they are drop testing these guns indoors with no barrier between them and gun. Aren't they shooting holes in the ceiling or walls? What if that gun does not get dropped straight and shoots back at the tester or film crew? Maybe I misssed something and they have pulled the bullets?
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John View Post
I can't believe they are drop testing these guns indoors with no barrier between them and gun. Aren't they shooting holes in the ceiling or walls? What if that gun does not get dropped straight and shoots back at the tester or film crew? Maybe I misssed something and they have pulled the bullets?
IN the beginning of the video they say bullets are pulled. They are using cases / primer only.
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  #56  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:11 PM
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Unless the results are from a respected lab I am ignoring their test.
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  #57  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:12 PM
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Thank you--in a meeting and I listened with the sound off. I will play with sound tonight.
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  #58  
Old 08-08-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
Unless the results are from a respected lab I am ignoring their test.
I am sensing a case of denial here......
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
I am sensing a case of denial here......
YES, I deny results that come from youtube experts. They may be legitimate, and they may not be. Any gun can be tampered with to make it fail a drop test. The P320 has a 5.5 to 7.5# from the factory, that would have to be one heavy trigger. I doubt the US Army in years of testing did not try every manner to get it to fail a drop test.

Some people just keep denying that Glock lost the bid, and still have not got over it.
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Old 08-08-2017, 05:43 PM
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Sig Sauer Offers To Upgrade P320 Pistols In Wake Of Drop Safety Failures

BREAKING: Sig Sauer Offers To Upgrade P320 Pistols In Wake Of Drop Safety Failures - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog
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  #61  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH View Post
The key is the part I have bolded in Sig's statement.

Quote:
Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.
I don't know exactly what that refers to, either height, angle of drop (muzzle or butt first) or both.
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Old 08-08-2017, 06:04 PM
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THE SKY IS FALLING!!!
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  #63  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:21 PM
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  #64  
Old 08-08-2017, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John View Post
Thank you--in a meeting and I listened with the sound off. I will play with sound tonight.
Sounds like a exciting meeting!!!! From the Sig Forum....P320 fails drop testing..orders being cancelled

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Old 08-08-2017, 06:23 PM
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I think someone should go out and buy a 320 to test!

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  #66  
Old 08-08-2017, 07:15 PM
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Default It doesn't sound like anything.....

It doesn't sound like anything that can't be easily fixed.
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Old 08-08-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
It doesn't sound like anything that can't be easily fixed.
...with a trigger safety that may not be grunt/dirt proof or a 9lb trigger? Choose wisely.
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Old 08-09-2017, 02:42 AM
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Glock is really upset that they lost that US ARMY contract. This conspiracy theory they have started about the SIG 320 and it being unsafe "ALMOST" worked. Too bad people can see through Glock just like they are a piece of glass.
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  #69  
Old 08-09-2017, 09:14 AM
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Read paragraph 7.10.
https://www.nij.gov/Documents/gun-sa...ic-comment.pdf

Looks to me that the videos met these requirements.
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle View Post
Read paragraph 7.10.
https://www.nij.gov/Documents/gun-sa...ic-comment.pdf

Looks to me that the videos met these requirements.


Indeed.......you nailed that one........
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Disabled1 View Post
Glock is really upset that they lost that US ARMY contract. This conspiracy theory they have started about the SIG 320 and it being unsafe "ALMOST" worked. Too bad people can see through Glock just like they are a piece of glass.

The conspiracy is so deep,they are shooting people... damn Glock

MHS Winner SIG Sauer SUED by Police Officer Shot by Dropped, Holstered P320 - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

Did the chemtrails tell you to post that?

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Old 08-09-2017, 09:43 AM
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Who you gonna believe ??? The Sig fanboys in denial or your lying eyes ???????????
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Old 08-09-2017, 09:54 AM
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Honestly I own firearms from many different manufacturers over the years. It is up over 525 after getting my Dad's collection.

I have only had problems with a Taurus revolver , an American made Sig semi pistol, a marlin bolt action, and a Henry lever action rifle in 30+ years of buying and selling.

Only Henry and Marlin made things right in a satisfactory manner. Taurus customer service was horrible but they made it right after a painful experience.

Sig on the other hand not only treated me like an idiot, they LIED. The gun went back twice. They did nothing the first time so I decided to throw a small dab of nail polish on one of the parts they claimed to have replaced that I did not think they did. It came back with the same part. saying it was replaced a second time. When I called and confronted them about it I was treated like an idiot flat out called a liar by management and told to pound sand pretty much. I will NEVER do business with Sig again. I buy 2-5 firearms a year.

They lie. This exact incident further justifies my opinion. Friday they make a statement claiming that this drop fire failure is new to them and this is the first they have heard of it and that nobody in the US consumer market has had any issue.

Then yesterday we find out about the Stamford PD lawsuit and they knew at least 6 months ago when the department brought it to their attention, the convenient fact that the M17 already has the new trigger and they knew enough about these issues to already have a new trigger mechanism ready to go. Yet they state in yesterdays statement " they were not dropped in accordance with us safety standards" ... what does that even mean? There are videos of them going off falling on the hammer, falling on the mag well, and one guy got his to go off tapping it with a hammer while in his hand and not even dropping it.

So for at least 6 months these unsafe firearms have been sold to LE and joe consumer and at least one LEO had his career prematurely ended due to this safety issue.

I would happily buy old german models but I will never support the lying new regime that runs this company again. They lie, and they got caught with their pants down due to everyone performing unscientific drop tests.... well that what accidental drops are... unscientific. They just fall, and of course the Sig failed.

Sig can pound sand as far as I am concerned.

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Old 08-09-2017, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
But, but, but.....it's on the Internet, it must be true.
Bonjour....
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Old 08-09-2017, 01:38 PM
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:51 PM
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According to the civil law suit papers, this has been known since 2008 with documented cases involving Sig pistols. The new model P320 is the latest. All are stated in the 12 page civil suit document. It's an interesting read and should shed some light on this alleged issue involving the P320 set up.

Case: 3:17-cv-01318-JCH filed in USDC of Connecticut on August 4, 2017.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by JamesArthur60 View Post
According to the civil law suit papers, this has been known since 2008 with documented cases involving Sig pistols. The new model P320 is the latest. All are stated in the 12 page civil suit document. It's an interesting read and should shed some light on this alleged issue involving the P320 set up.

Case: 3:17-cv-01318-JCH filed in USDC of Connecticut on August 4, 2017.
Strikes me that most of the shootings as described in the "Allegations" section of that document were either "cause undetermined" or NDs by the person with the gun.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:31 PM
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When your done beating that dead horse could somebody light the grill. No sense in letting that meat go to waste.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:48 PM
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When your done beating that dead horse could somebody light the grill. No sense in letting that meat go to waste.
Far from a dead horse when the "fix" and "cause" have not even been publicly identified yet. Just saying.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:35 PM
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I never warmed up to the P320 SIG's but I sure do like my Legion and any other P229/226. Stick with those and you will be just fine.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:53 PM
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I thought only the Iraqi army drop-tested their weapons.

I know they have a new tank with 4 speeds....one forward and three in reverse.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:47 PM
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Interesting post from the SIG Talk Forum:

SIG Talk

Unfortunately, no link to Langdon's statement was provided.
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsig View Post
Interesting post from the SIG Talk Forum:

SIG Talk

Unfortunately, no link to Langdon's statement was provided.
Here ya go!

Semi-Auto Triggers: market trends, choices, and consequences
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Old 08-11-2017, 09:59 PM
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Oh, this horse is far from dead. This gets more interesting by the day.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
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Oh, this horse is far from dead. This gets more interesting by the day.
Oh yes! A lot of life left in this old horse. The fun is just getting started. Next step: Finding out what Sig's "voluntary upgrade" (wink, wink) solution is going to be and how it goes down with the shooting public.

Did I hear right that there are half a million of these guns already out there? Sounds like an awful lot for just one fairly new model gun. Can anyone confirm or correct the record?
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:28 AM
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Exclamation

Glock is behind all of this BS! They just couldn't be happy with their current world status. Losing the military contract is what pushed them over the edge. They were trying to be the HITLER of firearms.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Walkingwolf View Post
When your done beating that dead horse could somebody light the grill. No sense in letting that meat go to waste.
They are going to beat this horse into sub-atomic particles.
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Old 08-12-2017, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Disabled1 View Post
Glock is behind all of this BS! They just couldn't be happy with their current world status. Losing the military contract is what pushed them over the edge. They were trying to be the HITLER of firearms.
The problem is this does not affect the military 320 as it has a thumb safety. The gun is just like the 1911 with the safety engaged, the sear is blocked.

This whole single action, feather trigger thing that the younger crowd crave without a safety has brought about this problem. Revolvers used to have 15# triggers out of the box, there was no way that trigger was moving if dropped.

IMO a Glock would be a much better weapon with a thumb safety. Still would be like holding a 2X4 though.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:34 PM
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Well I'll be.

Looky at the Sig WebSite

What say all the experts now??

Must just be a "courtesy" on their part.

https://www.sigsauer.com/press-relea...e-p320-pistol/
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Well I'll be.

Looky at the Sig WebSite

What say all the experts now??

Must just be a "courtesy" on their part.

SIG SAUER Issues Voluntary Upgrade of P320 Pistol | Sig Sauer


Right on!


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Old 08-12-2017, 02:43 PM
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Thanks Steve.
Reading comp is not one of my strong suits, so I need help understanding what the writer is saying.
Is he saying Sig, in order to please some segment of the gun crowd decided to mimic a 1911 trigger on a striker fired gun?
Is that correct or am I misreading.....it happens.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Thanks Steve.
Reading comp is not one of my strong suits, so I need help understanding what the writer is saying.
Is he saying Sig, in order to please some segment of the gun crowd decided to mimic a 1911 trigger on a striker fired gun?
Is that correct or am I misreading.....it happens.
Pretty much. Look at any gun review, and especially those by Wiley Clapp, and if the gun is NOT a 1911 you will have to suffer yet another treatise on how much the author prefers the 1911 trigger mechanism. That's pointless, IMHO, and it has led many shooters to believe that no gun is shootable unless the trigger is like a good 1911. That's clearly bunkum. People have got lazy and are no longer to put in the time to shoot properly.

You can add to this the fascination with accuracy and with a handgun. Without doubt this combination is easier to achieve with a great trigger, but the mantra has become that there is always more speed and accuracy to be had. Sorry folks, but handguns are ultimately limited by physics and manufacturing tolerances even from a Ransom rest. As for offhand shooting, in a self defence scenario fast enough and accurate enough are sufficient, but the worshippers of "more" don't want to hear it.

The "more" crowd have driven the demand for better triggers on striker fired pistols, but for some reason the obvious solution of a SA gun with a safety mechanism that locks the sear has not been pursued by most manufacturers with the XD being the exception. That's because the real money is in LEO contracts, and they don't want manual safeties because of the training overhead. So we end up with light triggers with no safeties and operating mechanisms that are not drop proof.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:58 PM
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Gotta love how Sig get this dig at Glock into their press release when the matter in question has NOTHING to do with disassembly.

Quote:
The design of the SIG SAUER P320 overcomes the most significant safety concern in striker-fired pistols today: the practice of pressing the trigger for disassembly.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:10 PM
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Default I'm not saying it's complete bull....

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Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
Once again......

You can have your own opinion about Sig's but you can't have your own facts..............................................................

Sig Sauer P320 Fails Drop Test - YouTube
But it can be fixed and if the DPD puts it back in service, that's a good sign. Someone mentioned that the limitations of the mechanical safeties exists, and that the operator is the best back up. For news to sell it has to be pushed to hysteria.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Rule3 View Post
Well I'll be.

Looky at the Sig WebSite

What say all the experts now??

Must just be a "courtesy" on their part.

SIG SAUER Issues Voluntary Upgrade of P320 Pistol | Sig Sauer
The truth always comes out, always. It will in this case as well.
We'll see.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ladder13 View Post
Thanks Steve.
Reading comp is not one of my strong suits, so I need help understanding what the writer is saying.
Is he saying Sig, in order to please some segment of the gun crowd decided to mimic a 1911 trigger on a striker fired gun?
Is that correct or am I misreading.....it happens.
That's what I took away from that essay.
An industry trend towards ever more "1911 like" triggers on these poly striker guns.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
Pretty much. Look at any gun review, and especially those by Wiley Clapp, and if the gun is NOT a 1911 you will have to suffer yet another treatise on how much the author prefers the 1911 trigger mechanism. That's pointless, IMHO, and it has led many shooters to believe that no gun is shootable unless the trigger is like a good 1911. That's clearly bunkum. People have got lazy and are no longer to put in the time to shoot properly.

You can add to this the fascination with accuracy and with a handgun. Without doubt this combination is easier to achieve with a great trigger, but the mantra has become that there is always more speed and accuracy to be had. Sorry folks, but handguns are ultimately limited by physics and manufacturing tolerances even from a Ransom rest. As for offhand shooting, in a self defence scenario fast enough and accurate enough are sufficient, but the worshippers of "more" don't want to hear it.


Your right, a "handful is enough". From the Sig Forum....P320 fails drop testing..orders being cancelled


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  #98  
Old 08-12-2017, 04:41 PM
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Gotta love how Sig get this dig at Glock into their press release when the matter in question has NOTHING to do with disassembly.
smoke and mirrors
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Disabled1 View Post
Glock is behind all of this BS! They just couldn't be happy with their current world status. Losing the military contract is what pushed them over the edge. They were trying to be the HITLER of firearms.
I'm sure glock snuck in to the Sig factory and sabotaged all of these firearms
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Old 08-12-2017, 05:44 PM
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I'm sure glock snuck in to the Sig factory and sabotaged all of these firearms


A "smoking gun" will be found. From the Sig Forum....P320 fails drop testing..orders being cancelled


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