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08-08-2017, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
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I'll stick to my glocks. I've drop them before on concrete with no ill effects.
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08-08-2017, 04:23 PM
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A Country Boy Can Survive
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08-08-2017, 04:30 PM
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Mehhh, my guns don't magically drop from their holsters.
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08-08-2017, 04:35 PM
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I can't believe they are drop testing these guns indoors with no barrier between them and gun. Aren't they shooting holes in the ceiling or walls? What if that gun does not get dropped straight and shoots back at the tester or film crew? Maybe I misssed something and they have pulled the bullets?
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Last edited by 6518John; 08-08-2017 at 04:36 PM.
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08-08-2017, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John
I can't believe they are drop testing these guns indoors with no barrier between them and gun. Aren't they shooting holes in the ceiling or walls? What if that gun does not get dropped straight and shoots back at the tester or film crew? Maybe I misssed something and they have pulled the bullets?
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IN the beginning of the video they say bullets are pulled. They are using cases / primer only.
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08-08-2017, 05:11 PM
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Unless the results are from a respected lab I am ignoring their test.
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08-08-2017, 05:12 PM
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Thank you--in a meeting and I listened with the sound off. I will play with sound tonight.
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08-08-2017, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf
Unless the results are from a respected lab I am ignoring their test.
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I am sensing a case of denial here......
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08-08-2017, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
I am sensing a case of denial here......
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YES, I deny results that come from youtube experts. They may be legitimate, and they may not be. Any gun can be tampered with to make it fail a drop test. The P320 has a 5.5 to 7.5# from the factory, that would have to be one heavy trigger. I doubt the US Army in years of testing did not try every manner to get it to fail a drop test.
Some people just keep denying that Glock lost the bid, and still have not got over it.
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08-08-2017, 05:43 PM
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08-08-2017, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TTSH
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The key is the part I have bolded in Sig's statement.
Quote:
Recent events indicate that dropping the P320 beyond U.S. standards for safety may cause an unintentional discharge.
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I don't know exactly what that refers to, either height, angle of drop (muzzle or butt first) or both.
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08-08-2017, 06:04 PM
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Last edited by Warren Sear; 08-08-2017 at 06:06 PM.
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08-08-2017, 06:21 PM
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08-08-2017, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6518John
Thank you--in a meeting and I listened with the sound off. I will play with sound tonight.
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Sounds like a exciting meeting!!!!
Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
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08-08-2017, 06:23 PM
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I think someone should go out and buy a 320 to test!
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08-08-2017, 07:15 PM
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It doesn't sound like anything.....
It doesn't sound like anything that can't be easily fixed.
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08-08-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwsmith
It doesn't sound like anything that can't be easily fixed.
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...with a trigger safety that may not be grunt/dirt proof or a 9lb trigger? Choose wisely.
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08-09-2017, 02:42 AM
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Glock is really upset that they lost that US ARMY contract. This conspiracy theory they have started about the SIG 320 and it being unsafe "ALMOST" worked. Too bad people can see through Glock just like they are a piece of glass.
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08-09-2017, 09:14 AM
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Read paragraph 7.10.
https://www.nij.gov/Documents/gun-sa...ic-comment.pdf
Looks to me that the videos met these requirements.
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08-09-2017, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanewpadle
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Indeed.......you nailed that one........
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08-09-2017, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disabled1
Glock is really upset that they lost that US ARMY contract. This conspiracy theory they have started about the SIG 320 and it being unsafe "ALMOST" worked. Too bad people can see through Glock just like they are a piece of glass.
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The conspiracy is so deep,they are shooting people... damn Glock
MHS Winner SIG Sauer SUED by Police Officer Shot by Dropped, Holstered P320 - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog
Did the chemtrails tell you to post that?
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08-09-2017, 09:43 AM
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Who you gonna believe ??? The Sig fanboys in denial or your lying eyes ???????????
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08-09-2017, 09:54 AM
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Honestly I own firearms from many different manufacturers over the years. It is up over 525 after getting my Dad's collection.
I have only had problems with a Taurus revolver , an American made Sig semi pistol, a marlin bolt action, and a Henry lever action rifle in 30+ years of buying and selling.
Only Henry and Marlin made things right in a satisfactory manner. Taurus customer service was horrible but they made it right after a painful experience.
Sig on the other hand not only treated me like an idiot, they LIED. The gun went back twice. They did nothing the first time so I decided to throw a small dab of nail polish on one of the parts they claimed to have replaced that I did not think they did. It came back with the same part. saying it was replaced a second time. When I called and confronted them about it I was treated like an idiot flat out called a liar by management and told to pound sand pretty much. I will NEVER do business with Sig again. I buy 2-5 firearms a year.
They lie. This exact incident further justifies my opinion. Friday they make a statement claiming that this drop fire failure is new to them and this is the first they have heard of it and that nobody in the US consumer market has had any issue.
Then yesterday we find out about the Stamford PD lawsuit and they knew at least 6 months ago when the department brought it to their attention, the convenient fact that the M17 already has the new trigger and they knew enough about these issues to already have a new trigger mechanism ready to go. Yet they state in yesterdays statement " they were not dropped in accordance with us safety standards" ... what does that even mean? There are videos of them going off falling on the hammer, falling on the mag well, and one guy got his to go off tapping it with a hammer while in his hand and not even dropping it.
So for at least 6 months these unsafe firearms have been sold to LE and joe consumer and at least one LEO had his career prematurely ended due to this safety issue.
I would happily buy old german models but I will never support the lying new regime that runs this company again. They lie, and they got caught with their pants down due to everyone performing unscientific drop tests.... well that what accidental drops are... unscientific. They just fall, and of course the Sig failed.
Sig can pound sand as far as I am concerned.
Last edited by eb07; 08-09-2017 at 06:13 PM.
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08-09-2017, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve
But, but, but.....it's on the Internet, it must be true.
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Bonjour....
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08-09-2017, 01:38 PM
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08-11-2017, 02:51 PM
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According to the civil law suit papers, this has been known since 2008 with documented cases involving Sig pistols. The new model P320 is the latest. All are stated in the 12 page civil suit document. It's an interesting read and should shed some light on this alleged issue involving the P320 set up.
Case: 3:17-cv-01318-JCH filed in USDC of Connecticut on August 4, 2017.
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08-11-2017, 03:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesArthur60
According to the civil law suit papers, this has been known since 2008 with documented cases involving Sig pistols. The new model P320 is the latest. All are stated in the 12 page civil suit document. It's an interesting read and should shed some light on this alleged issue involving the P320 set up.
Case: 3:17-cv-01318-JCH filed in USDC of Connecticut on August 4, 2017.
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Strikes me that most of the shootings as described in the "Allegations" section of that document were either "cause undetermined" or NDs by the person with the gun.
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08-11-2017, 03:31 PM
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When your done beating that dead horse could somebody light the grill. No sense in letting that meat go to waste.
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08-11-2017, 03:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf
When your done beating that dead horse could somebody light the grill. No sense in letting that meat go to waste.
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Far from a dead horse when the "fix" and "cause" have not even been publicly identified yet. Just saying.
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08-11-2017, 04:35 PM
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I never warmed up to the P320 SIG's but I sure do like my Legion and any other P229/226. Stick with those and you will be just fine.
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08-11-2017, 04:53 PM
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I thought only the Iraqi army drop-tested their weapons.
I know they have a new tank with 4 speeds....one forward and three in reverse.
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08-11-2017, 06:47 PM
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Interesting post from the SIG Talk Forum:
SIG Talk
Unfortunately, no link to Langdon's statement was provided.
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What, me worry?
Last edited by swsig; 08-11-2017 at 06:48 PM.
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08-11-2017, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsig
Interesting post from the SIG Talk Forum:
SIG Talk
Unfortunately, no link to Langdon's statement was provided.
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Here ya go!
Semi-Auto Triggers: market trends, choices, and consequences
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08-11-2017, 09:59 PM
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Oh, this horse is far from dead. This gets more interesting by the day.
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08-12-2017, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13
Oh, this horse is far from dead. This gets more interesting by the day.
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Oh yes! A lot of life left in this old horse. The fun is just getting started. Next step: Finding out what Sig's "voluntary upgrade" (wink, wink) solution is going to be and how it goes down with the shooting public.
Did I hear right that there are half a million of these guns already out there? Sounds like an awful lot for just one fairly new model gun. Can anyone confirm or correct the record?
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08-12-2017, 11:28 AM
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Glock is behind all of this BS! They just couldn't be happy with their current world status. Losing the military contract is what pushed them over the edge. They were trying to be the HITLER of firearms.
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08-12-2017, 01:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkingwolf
When your done beating that dead horse could somebody light the grill. No sense in letting that meat go to waste.
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They are going to beat this horse into sub-atomic particles.
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08-12-2017, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disabled1
Glock is behind all of this BS! They just couldn't be happy with their current world status. Losing the military contract is what pushed them over the edge. They were trying to be the HITLER of firearms.
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The problem is this does not affect the military 320 as it has a thumb safety. The gun is just like the 1911 with the safety engaged, the sear is blocked.
This whole single action, feather trigger thing that the younger crowd crave without a safety has brought about this problem. Revolvers used to have 15# triggers out of the box, there was no way that trigger was moving if dropped.
IMO a Glock would be a much better weapon with a thumb safety. Still would be like holding a 2X4 though.
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08-12-2017, 02:34 PM
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Well I'll be.
Looky at the Sig WebSite
What say all the experts now??
Must just be a "courtesy" on their part.
https://www.sigsauer.com/press-relea...e-p320-pistol/
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08-12-2017, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve
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Thanks Steve.
Reading comp is not one of my strong suits, so I need help understanding what the writer is saying.
Is he saying Sig, in order to please some segment of the gun crowd decided to mimic a 1911 trigger on a striker fired gun?
Is that correct or am I misreading.....it happens.
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08-12-2017, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13
Thanks Steve.
Reading comp is not one of my strong suits, so I need help understanding what the writer is saying.
Is he saying Sig, in order to please some segment of the gun crowd decided to mimic a 1911 trigger on a striker fired gun?
Is that correct or am I misreading.....it happens.
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Pretty much. Look at any gun review, and especially those by Wiley Clapp, and if the gun is NOT a 1911 you will have to suffer yet another treatise on how much the author prefers the 1911 trigger mechanism. That's pointless, IMHO, and it has led many shooters to believe that no gun is shootable unless the trigger is like a good 1911. That's clearly bunkum. People have got lazy and are no longer to put in the time to shoot properly.
You can add to this the fascination with accuracy and with a handgun. Without doubt this combination is easier to achieve with a great trigger, but the mantra has become that there is always more speed and accuracy to be had. Sorry folks, but handguns are ultimately limited by physics and manufacturing tolerances even from a Ransom rest. As for offhand shooting, in a self defence scenario fast enough and accurate enough are sufficient, but the worshippers of "more" don't want to hear it.
The "more" crowd have driven the demand for better triggers on striker fired pistols, but for some reason the obvious solution of a SA gun with a safety mechanism that locks the sear has not been pursued by most manufacturers with the XD being the exception. That's because the real money is in LEO contracts, and they don't want manual safeties because of the training overhead. So we end up with light triggers with no safeties and operating mechanisms that are not drop proof.
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08-12-2017, 03:58 PM
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Gotta love how Sig get this dig at Glock into their press release when the matter in question has NOTHING to do with disassembly.
Quote:
The design of the SIG SAUER P320 overcomes the most significant safety concern in striker-fired pistols today: the practice of pressing the trigger for disassembly.
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08-12-2017, 04:10 PM
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I'm not saying it's complete bull....
Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002
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But it can be fixed and if the DPD puts it back in service, that's a good sign. Someone mentioned that the limitations of the mechanical safeties exists, and that the operator is the best back up. For news to sell it has to be pushed to hysteria.
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08-12-2017, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
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The truth always comes out, always. It will in this case as well.
We'll see.
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08-12-2017, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13
Thanks Steve.
Reading comp is not one of my strong suits, so I need help understanding what the writer is saying.
Is he saying Sig, in order to please some segment of the gun crowd decided to mimic a 1911 trigger on a striker fired gun?
Is that correct or am I misreading.....it happens.
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That's what I took away from that essay.
An industry trend towards ever more "1911 like" triggers on these poly striker guns.
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08-12-2017, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve
Gotta love how Sig get this dig at Glock into their press release when the matter in question has NOTHING to do with disassembly.
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smoke and mirrors
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08-12-2017, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disabled1
Glock is behind all of this BS! They just couldn't be happy with their current world status. Losing the military contract is what pushed them over the edge. They were trying to be the HITLER of firearms.
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I'm sure glock snuck in to the Sig factory and sabotaged all of these firearms
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08-12-2017, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve
Gotta love how Sig get this dig at Glock into their press release when the matter in question has NOTHING to do with disassembly.
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Well there have been a hell of a lot more people shot from ND's with Glocks, than Sigs dropping. How many dropped Sig AD's has there been?
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08-12-2017, 10:04 PM
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Banned
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Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: South Of The North Pole
Posts: 1,257
Likes: 491
Liked 710 Times in 424 Posts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasky
I'm sure glock snuck in to the Sig factory and sabotaged all of these firearms
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No, that's very far fetched. This is how Glock did it;
SIG beats out Glock in the military contract. Glock gets their panties in a wad and tries to bring a lawsuit against SIG. The government sees no merit in Glocks frivolous lawsuit and dismisses it. So, Glock is even more PO'ed now and starts this campaign about the 320 and how it fires when dropped. Glock is like a small child not getting its way and throwing a temper tantrum.
Now, I must face the wrath of the Glock fanboys. BRING IT!
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08-13-2017, 12:01 PM
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Member
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Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ellisville, Missouri
Posts: 2,226
Likes: 4,996
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Forrestinmathews told of a friend who got a great deal on a new Sig P320. He slapped the friend on the back to congratulate him and the gun went off.
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