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Old 08-03-2017, 02:51 PM
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Default From the Sig Forum....P320 fails drop testing..orders being cancelled

Apparently they discovered that it's not reliably drop safe.

Blog | GunMag Warehouse - Updated | Dallas PD Investigates Potential Concern with the Sig Sauer P320

Modern firearms are not supposed to fire when dropped. However according to a source, the Sig Sauer P320 is failing drop safety tests.



Sig Sauer has identified that there is a defect in the P320 handgun that could cause the weapon system to go off when dropped. The Sig Sauer P320 was approved for primary duty, secondary primary duty, and back-up use. The Firearms Training Center is currently working with Sig Sauer to obtain a solution for the safety issue. Until Sig Sauer is able to find a solution to the safety issue, the Sig Sauer P320 is no longer approved by the Dallas Police Department for any use. Those officers that currently have a Sig Sauer P320 as a primary duty weapon will have the following two options: Option 1 – Go to the Firearms Training Center on Monday, July 31st , during business hours, to be issued a city Sig Sauer P226 and qualify with that weapon. Option 2 – Purchase another city approved weapon and respond to the Range on Monday, July 31st , during business hours, to qualify with that weapon. Until getting another weapon and qualifying, officers need to practice increased safety with these weapon systems. The Firearms Training Center staff is working diligently with Sig Sauer to obtain a solution and will keep officers informed of the status.



Even the Sig P320 manual warns of this defect. You can see it in the digital copy here.

Drop warning



Sig P320

Earlier this year Sig Sauer was awared with the Army's MHS contract. The Modular Handgun System program was looking for a new service weapon to replace the existing Beretta M9 service weapon.

SIG SAUER, Inc. announced today that the U.S. Army has selected the SIG SAUER Model P320 to replace the M9 service pistol currently in use since the mid-1980’s. Released in 2014, the P320 is a polymer striker-fired pistol that has proven itself in both the United States and worldwide markets. The P320 is the first modular pistol with interchangeable grip modules that can also be adjusted in frame size and caliber by the operator. All pistols will be produced at the SIG SAUER facilities in New Hampshire.

The MHS Program provides for the delivery of both full size and compact P320’s, over a period of ten (10) years. All pistols will be configurable to receive suppressors and will also include both standard and extended capacity magazines.

“I am tremendously proud of the Modular Handgun System Team,” said Army Acquisition Executive, Steffanie Easter in the release. “By maximizing full and open competition across our industry partners, we truly have optimized the private sector advancements in handguns, ammunition and magazines and the end result will ensure a decidedly superior weapon system for our warfighters.”

Ron Cohen, President and CEO of SIG SAUER, said “We are both humbled and proud that the P320 was selected by the U.S. Army as its weapon of choice. Securing this contract is a testimony to SIG SAUER employees and their commitment to innovation, quality and manufacturing the most reliable firearms in the world.”



No word yet on what this means for the MHS Army contract. As soon as we learn more we will follow up.
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Old 08-03-2017, 03:57 PM
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Does it have the lanyard ring? If not, put one on it and attach a lanyard.
Problem solved.
Next!
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
Does it have the lanyard ring? If not, put one on it and attach a lanyard.
Problem solved.
Next!

Wow....wonder why the Firearms Training Center did not figure that one out......
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Old 08-03-2017, 04:52 PM
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This came up on another forum, nobody provided any factual info backed by credible sources. One theory I heard was the story was fabricated by a Glock fanboy claiming to work for Dallas PD, but was traced to an ISP in Amsterdam.
I personally don't care for the 320 or Glocks, I just find it hard to believe that in all the testing the Army did, no one thought to drop one a few times to see if it would fire.
If there was an AD in Dallas it was probably someone who messed up and tried to cover for his/her mistake by blaming the gun.
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:23 PM
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Pure garbage started by a troll on the SIG Talk Forum. He has since been banned and his thread taken down. The original post and a video supposedly showing a P320 going off when dropped have been thoroughly discredited by SIG experts. I live near Dallas and subscribe to the Dallas Morning News, and I've seen nothing about this in any local media. However this story refuses to go away, as it is being picked up and repeated by other online sources. Here is my earlier post about this from our "Other Brands" section:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139692056-post3.html
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Old 08-03-2017, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsig View Post
Pure garbage started by a troll on the SIG Talk Forum. He has since been banned and his thread taken down. The original post and a video supposedly showing a P320 going off when dropped have been thoroughly discredited by SIG experts. I live near Dallas and subscribe to the Dallas Morning News, and I've seen nothing about this in any local media. However this story refuses to go away, as it is being picked up and repeated by other online sources. Here is my earlier post about this from our "Other Brands" section:

http://smith-wessonforum.com/139692056-post3.html
But, but, but.....it's on the Internet, it must be true.
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Old 08-03-2017, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
But, but, but.....it's on the Internet, it must be true.
Yeah. I heard the Army didn't do a drop test on the P320 before they chose it as their combat pistol. Apparently, it never occurred to them.
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Old 08-03-2017, 08:23 PM
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I own a Sig 320RX. I increased my wifes life insurance and sent her to the basement and had her drop the gun!
Just kidding!!
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:32 PM
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Love mine. Striker-fired:

From Personal Defense World

“Disassembling most striker-fired pistols requires you to press the trigger first to release the striker. In a perfect world, this is not a problem, but any trainer knows that no such world exists. The requirement has resulted in the occasional negligent discharge. The P320 has no such requirement. Lock the slide to the rear, turn the takedown lever and remove the slide. You cannot turn the takedown lever to release the slide with a magazine in the gun (empty or not), making it very difficult for a discharge to occur."
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Old 08-03-2017, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsig View Post
Yeah. I heard the Army didn't do a drop test on the P320 before they chose it as their combat pistol. Apparently, it never occurred to them.
The Army selected the 320 not because the 320 is drop safe, its just that its better than the Glock because the Glock actually jumps out of the holster on its own and starts shooting randomly.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PPS1980 View Post
The Army selected the 320 not because the 320 is drop safe, its just that its better than the Glock because the Glock actually jumps out of the holster on its own and starts shooting randomly.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:11 PM
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More hysteria over nothing.
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Old 08-03-2017, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
More hysteria over nothing.
Exactly. So far it's been unfounded

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Old 08-03-2017, 10:26 PM
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Sounds like fake news to me.
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Old 08-03-2017, 11:48 PM
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What is true is that the manual actually does say, "If dropped, the pistol may fire. Keep the chamber empty unless actually firing."

I have the manual right in front of me and it's on-line as well.

Taurus had to recall and pay out a fortune to lawyers because their pistols discharged when dropped, but Sig skates by just putting a warning in the manual?!

Now if Sig tells us it may discharge when dropped why would anybody use that gun when so many others won't discharge?
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Old 08-04-2017, 12:30 AM
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Don't own one, don't care.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:08 AM
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I don't know a thing about this issue but I do know that certain Taurus models were discovered to have issues with being dropped after several years in the field. It was a Millennium model at the center of the controversy if that tells you anything. It was out before 2000 and it took at least 10 years for the problem to be discovered. I have one of those pistols and I have dropped it before with no problems. I keep it where it won't be dropped on anything hard now. It's too good of a pistol to let go.

I'm just saying that testing doesn't always reveal issues. It's possible the Sig was tested and not found to have issues until later. It happened with Taurus. Yes I know it's Taurus and not Sig but still. That pistol is a very good pistol. Start with 5000 rounds with no problems at all and accuracy that rivals the best Sig makes. And a Sig will cost about 3X as much for a similar pistol. I have a great Sig and I think the Taurus is great too in spite of the drop problems.
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:49 AM
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Can anyone post a picture of the Sig manual section where is says the 320 firearm may discharge if dropped? For any handgun to be sold new in the Commiewealth of Ma it must pass a bunch of inane tests and one of them is a drop test. However, the Sig 320 is currently on the approved Ma. roster.It seems very odd that Sig would admit there may be an issue on a potential discharge on a drop (in print nonetheless) and Ma would OK it for sale. Personally,it does not bother me to own a handgun that is not drop tested as I don't drop them. Kind of like crash testing airplanes..

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Old 08-04-2017, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakaway500 View Post
Can anyone post a picture of the Sig manual section where is says the 320 firearm may discharge if dropped? For any handgun to be sold new in the Commiewealth of Ma it must pass a bunch of inane tests and one of them is a drop test. However, the Sig 320 is currently on the approved Ma. roster.It seems very odd that Sig would admit there may be an issue on a potential discharge on a drop (in print nonetheless) and Ma would OK it for sale. Personally,it does not bother me to own a handgun that is not drop tested as I don't drop them. Kind of like crash testing airplanes..
I don't have the manual in front of me but I believe the warning is something like "ANY firearm may discharge if dropped" or similar legalese.
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Old 08-04-2017, 08:09 AM
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Far as I am concerned the military made a mistake changing to the Sig.

They have had the perfect combat handgun since 1911, if it isn't broken don't fix it.
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:02 AM
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To date NO p320 has had an accidental discharge when dropped . Its the fear that it might by some idiot at the dallas pd but considering the issues going at with the dallas PD it could be expected .

How about the rumor mongers try to move on to something truthfull for a change .
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlander View Post
What is true is that the manual actually does say, "If dropped, the pistol may fire. Keep the chamber empty unless actually firing."

I have the manual right in front of me and it's on-line as well.

Taurus had to recall and pay out a fortune to lawyers because their pistols discharged when dropped, but Sig skates by just putting a warning in the manual?!

Now if Sig tells us it may discharge when dropped why would anybody use that gun when so many others won't discharge?
This post folks is NOT FAKE NEWS...YOU CAN VERIFY FOR YOURSELF.......
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
This post folks is NOT FAKE NEWS...YOU CAN VERIFY FOR YOURSELF.......
Yes Taurus had a problem. However, so far this is speculation. Look around, hundreds of people doing a 320 drop test without issue. And the military does do drop tests

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Old 08-04-2017, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dben002 View Post
This post folks is NOT FAKE NEWS...YOU CAN VERIFY FOR YOURSELF.......
It sorta is. Here's the exact quote, and a link to the manual (emphasis added by the poster) . . .

"All SIG SAUER pistols incorporate effective
mechanical safeties to ensure they only fire when
the trigger is pressed. However, precautions should
always be taken to avoid dropping a loaded firearm.
Although extremely unlikely, it is still possible for
any loaded firearm to discharge when dropped
."

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/...01REV00_LR.pdf
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
It sorta is. Here's the exact quote, and a link to the manual (emphasis added by the poster) . . .

"All SIG SAUER pistols incorporate effective
mechanical safeties to ensure they only fire when
the trigger is pressed. However, precautions should
always be taken to avoid dropping a loaded firearm.
Although extremely unlikely, it is still possible for
any loaded firearm to discharge when dropped
."

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/...01REV00_LR.pdf
Looks like perfect legalese for CYA purposes.

I tend to go with those that say the alleged Dallas incident (if one ever took place) was reported in a way for somebody to cover up their ND.
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Breakaway500 View Post
Can anyone post a picture of the Sig manual section where is says the 320 firearm may discharge if dropped? For any handgun to be sold new in the Commiewealth of Ma it must pass a bunch of inane tests and one of them is a drop test. However, the Sig 320 is currently on the approved Ma. roster.It seems very odd that Sig would admit there may be an issue on a potential discharge on a drop (in print nonetheless) and Ma would OK it for sale. Personally,it does not bother me to own a handgun that is not drop tested as I don't drop them. Kind of like crash testing airplanes..
Here is the SIG P320 Manual. See page 25:

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/...01REV00_LR.pdf

It's the generic legalistic warning that can probably be found in every pistol's current owner's manual. The question is, did the DPD actually have a dropped P320 discharge? No one so far has presented definitive proof.
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:26 AM
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^^^
Looks like a proper warning/disclaimer
It would be irresponsible to guarantee that a cocked gun would not fire when dropped
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Old 08-04-2017, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
Looks like perfect legalese for CYA purposes.

I tend to go with those that say the alleged Dallas incident (if one ever took place) was reported in a way for somebody to cover up their ND.
My guess is the dropper grabbed it on the way down, or fired it and dropped it right after . . .
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:13 PM
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My guess is the dropper grabbed it on the way down, or fired it and dropped it right after . . .
Add "Gun Dropper" to list just before "Gun Grabber"
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Old 08-04-2017, 01:44 PM
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Like they said...

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Last edited by okiegtrider; 08-04-2017 at 01:50 PM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins View Post
It sorta is. Here's the exact quote, and a link to the manual (emphasis added by the poster) . . .

"All SIG SAUER pistols incorporate effective
mechanical safeties to ensure they only fire when
the trigger is pressed. However, precautions should
always be taken to avoid dropping a loaded firearm.
Although extremely unlikely, it is still possible for
any loaded firearm to discharge when dropped
."

https://www.sigsauer.com/wp-content/...01REV00_LR.pdf
This is interesting. The language quoted by Muss Muggins above is new language. Apparently, it has recently been edited. The language used to read precisely as follows: "If dropped, the pistol may fire. Keep the chamber empty unless actually firing." Looks like Sig corporate is doing some damage control.

The new manual is identified on its last page as P/N 8501909-01 REV00. The old manual with the original quote is identified as P/N 8501300-01 REV00.

Last edited by Ashlander; 08-04-2017 at 05:44 PM.
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Old 08-04-2017, 05:42 PM
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Damage control would be after the fact. This is written in a manual with each 320

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  #33  
Old 08-04-2017, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Damage control would be after the fact. This is written in a manual with each 320

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My point is that they have changed the language in the manual -- that's damage control.
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  #34  
Old 08-04-2017, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashlander View Post
This is interesting. The language quoted by Muss Muggins above is new language. Apparently, it has recently been edited. The language used to read precisely as follows: "If dropped, the pistol may fire. Keep the chamber empty unless actually firing." Looks like Sig corporate is doing some damage control.

The new manual is identified on its last page as P/N 8501909-01 REV00. The old manual with the original quote is identified as P/N 8501300-01 REV00.
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:52 PM
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Looks like DPD did recall the P320 at least temporarily, but not for an actual AD. It also looks like it will shortly be going back on the approved list.

Official Statement :SIG Sauer Reaffirms Safety of the P-320 pistol. - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

BREAKING: P320 Recall Issued By Dallas Police | Prohibited From Duty Till Repaired - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog
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Old 08-04-2017, 06:54 PM
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"An armorer at Dallas PD read an old outdated user manual which SIG has since edited. The language was confusing but caused this officer concern for the safety of the officers. DPD halted all officers from carrying the P-320 until they could contact the right person at SIG. Since the person at SIG was not in the office DPD issued the do not carry internal memo."

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Old 08-04-2017, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swsig View Post
Pure garbage started by a troll on the SIG Talk Forum. He has since been banned and his thread taken down.
Yep. And it was just more gun blog nonsense on the part of MagWarehouse. The Internet's crawling with gun blogs that spout fake news about this and that and the other. I'm genuinely at a loss to know why they do it. What do they have to gain?
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Old 08-04-2017, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustyt1953 View Post
Not sure how that changes my original post . . .
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  #39  
Old 08-04-2017, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchdog View Post
...The Internet's crawling with gun blogs that spout fake news about this and that and the other. I'm genuinely at a loss to know why they do it. What do they have to gain?
Look at this thread and you have your answer

Blogging is all about attention, and since very little new actually happens in the field of firearms on a daily basis, you've got to come up with something if you're trying to run a "gun blog".

I gave up on gun magazines ages ago as it became clear to me that there really wasn't even enough to justify filling a monthly magazine with substantive content and they were all copying from each other or disguising advertising as glossy articles. That's why I've retreated almost completely into historical guns and discussions.
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Old 08-04-2017, 10:42 PM
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Personally, I would NOT consider ANY firearm drop safe. It's a mechanical device made by the hands of man and Mr Murphy is always on the scene.
When handling a firearm, pay close attention to what you are doing, don't be texting, watching TV etc.

You're holding death in your hands:FOCUS!
  #41  
Old 08-04-2017, 11:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
Far as I am concerned the military made a mistake changing to the Sig.

They have had the perfect combat handgun since 1911, if it isn't broken don't fix it.
Even the designer of that pistol thought there was room for improvement. That's why he developed the Hi Power.

I have a Sig I wouldn't trade for a 1911 that cost double what I paid for the Sig.
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Old 08-05-2017, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steelslaver View Post
Far as I am concerned the military made a mistake changing to the Sig.

They have had the perfect combat handgun since 1911, if it isn't broken don't fix it.
Not sure which is the bigger anachronism, the 1911 platform or the post.
  #43  
Old 08-05-2017, 08:41 AM
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Turns out it was a simple mistake. Official Statement :SIG Sauer Reaffirms Safety of the P-320 pistol./ DPD Is In The Process Of Giving The Ok To Again Allow Officers To Carry The P-320. - The Firearm BlogThe Firearm Blog

Just goes to show what happens when someone decides to run to the net and spread rumors before the facts are known. Whoever it was that leaked this should be strung up and flogged.
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  #44  
Old 08-05-2017, 09:42 AM
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The Firearms Blog and Gun Mag warehouse blog both have a journalistic tone that I've seen somewhere before.

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  #45  
Old 08-05-2017, 09:50 AM
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BS gets half way around the world before truth can get its shoes on.

Remember Y2K?

The .22 ammo shortage?

Shame on the fools who spread alarmist gossip.
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Old 08-05-2017, 11:12 AM
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So no one at the DPD read the manual before approving it.
  #47  
Old 08-05-2017, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saudade View Post
So no one at the DPD read the manual before approving it.
I think someone just over reacted to it

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Old 08-05-2017, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
I think someone just over reacted to it
Yeah, a Glock armorer who doesn't want to retrain.
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  #49  
Old 08-08-2017, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
Looks like perfect legalese for CYA purposes.
If you wanna talk about "perfect legalese for CYA purposes", read the first 15 or 16 pages of the owner's manual for the S&W .45 Shield! S&W virtually absolves themselves of any responsibility for just about everything that could go wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
I tend to go with those that say the alleged Dallas incident (if one ever took place) was reported in a way for somebody to cover up their ND.
Agreed. Or else it was just some weird random incident that's gotten blown way out of proportion.

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Old 08-08-2017, 03:56 PM
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Once again......

You can have your own opinion about Sig's but you can't have your own facts..............................................................

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