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Old 08-06-2017, 05:14 PM
bc1023 bc1023 is offline
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Default One of the earliest Sig Sauer pistols you’ll ever see...

These days, Sig Sauer is one of the largest and most highly regarded firearms company in the world. They sell handguns and rifles in all different shapes, sizes, and calibers, with countless names and color schemes. They introduce new models on a yearly basis and sell many thousands of guns in the US every season. While I’m not a big fan of the current company or the pistols they produce, there is no denying the success they have found among the masses.

All this success started somewhere. Travel back in time to about 1970 when Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft (SIG) of Switzerland was fast advancing their manufacturing processes with new state of the art machinery. This would enable them to develop a new pistol at greatly reduced manufacturing costs. At the time, the extraordinarily accurate, tough, dependable, and super high quality P210 had been the adopted pistol of the Swiss army since replacing the Luger over two decades earlier. The drawback of the P210 was cost. It was very expensive to manufacture, resulting in sagging commercial sales and army orders. Furthermore, its single action design was aging a bit as a military sidearm. Finally, both the Swiss military and police forces all but demanded a lower cost replacement.

The P210 was the only handgun Sig had ever built and was now faced with a big challenge and needed some help. Sig wanted this new pistol to gain worldwide fanfare. Hampered by the Swiss law prohibiting exportation of firearms, Sig sought to bypass this law by joining forces with a foreign gun firm. J.P.Sauer & Sohn of Germany was just the sort of company Sig was looking to merge with. Sig wanted the new handgun to be of a double action design and configuration. During the early 1970's, double action autos were very quickly rising in popularity and preference over older single action designs. Being that Sig’s only handgun was the P210, they had very little to no experience with the double action designs. Sauer, on the other hand, had extensive experience with producing double action pistols, such as the 38H. Combining Sig’s new manufacturing technology and Sauer’s experience was a match made in heaven for both of the companies.

Once this great partnership was established, it did not take long before a new pistol was launched in 1975. It was quickly adopted by the Swiss army and called the Pistole 75 or P75. Commercially the gun was known as the Sig-Sauer P220. The chambering did not change from the P210, which was 9mm Parabellum. This pistol was wildly different from the legendary sidearm it replaced. Gone was the dense and costly forged steel slide and frame of the Sig P210. Instead the P220 had a heavy sheet metal welded stamping for a slide, coupled with a lightweight aluminum alloy frame. This greatly reduced the manufacturing cost while still giving the P220 outstanding reliability, very good accuracy, and acceptable durability.

The design of the P220 is that of the common Browning locked breech. It differed from many before it and since to include the P210, 1911, Browning Hi Power, S&W 39, CZ 75, etc. The difference was that the P220 did not have barrel lugs or matching recesses in the slide to lock the barrel and slide together. Instead it used a large section of the breech end of the barrel to lock into the ejection port. Many pistols have used this system since, to include Glock. The P220 also included a hammer drop (decocker) on the left side of the frame much like the old Sauer 38H.

This new pistol was very well received in several markets. In the United States, the P220 was imported under the name of the Browning BDA starting in 1977 and continuing until 1980. After that, Sig Sauer was finally able to import it under its own name. All of these early guns had heel mag releases. In addition to 9mm, the early heel release P220 became available in 30 Luger and 38 Super.

To follow up on the P220, Sig Sauer developed a compact version of the gun for the German police in 1978, called the P225. Germany designated this pistol the P6 and adopted it along with the Walther P5 and HK P7. During the 1980‘s, Sig Sauer introduced the double stack P226 and P228 to keep up with popular demand for higher capacity pistols. Once these were in place, the old warhorse P220 more or less became designated for the 45ACP round.

This example is very early. The date code is “HG” for 1976. With the pistol being introduced during 1975, this would be its first full year of production. This gun is even earlier than the first Browning BDA’s imported to the States in 1977. Early Sig Sauer pistols like this were all privately imported. Accompanying it is its original box and extra magazine. The early boxes are just like that of the Sig P210 of the same period, which makes perfect sense. Looks closely at this gun and you’ll notice the different shape of the early slides compared to P220’s just a newer years newer. The slide serrations are also different.

Condition is very good. The outside shows some minor handling marks. Unfortunately, the finish on the West German Sigs was notorious for clearly showing wear, dings, and scratches. However, its in great shape for 40+ years old. Internally, the gun is very clean. I honestly don’t think it was shot a whole lot over the decades in Germany. This is certainly a classic among classic 9mm Sig P220 pistols.

Anyone have an early Sig Sauer like this?

Thanks for reading and please enjoy the pics.





















Here it is with my 1983 9mm P220 so you can see the differences...









...some macro pics


[/url]






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  #2  
Old 08-06-2017, 05:23 PM
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Scorpion520AZ Scorpion520AZ is offline
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Great Post, Good Info, Awesome Pistols, Nice Pix.
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Old 08-06-2017, 06:54 PM
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SPEEDGUNNER SPEEDGUNNER is offline
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You just don't hear SIG 220 and 9mm in the same sentence very often. Great write up, very informative and excellent pictures.
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:05 PM
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I own and shoot a P-6. The date 1980 is stamped on it.Superb shape.
Single stack and the grip is perfect for my hand.
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:08 PM
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Tmnguuyen Tmnguuyen is offline
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Default Bda p220

Here are all three calibers in a same house hold. The early p220 have what is referred to as dolphine nose slide. Only the 38 super and 9mm had this type of slide. The 45acp is more square. High quality, safe and accurate.
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Last edited by Tmnguuyen; 08-06-2017 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:10 PM
Arik Arik is offline
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Nice! A few years ago I had a 1977 dated 220 9mm. Surplused by Switzerland from Geneva PD.

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Old 08-06-2017, 07:18 PM
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Thanks for sharing!
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:28 PM
sodacan sodacan is offline
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I have a West German P220 that dates to just before the wall came down, and a P6 from 1980. They are are great pistols in every aspect, except the triggers are just fair. I've learned to live with them. The early P6 imports are among the best values available for a compact single stack 9mm.
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Old 08-06-2017, 07:31 PM
bc1023 bc1023 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SPEEDGUNNER View Post
You just don't hear SIG 220 and 9mm in the same sentence very often. Great write up, very informative and excellent pictures.
That's the original caliber. That and the 30 Luger, just like the P210.
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Old 08-06-2017, 10:17 PM
C J C J is offline
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Quote:
This greatly reduced the manufacturing cost while still giving the P220 outstanding reliability, very good accuracy, and acceptable durability.
"Acceptable durability"??? The P220 is one of the most robust pistols ever made. I saw one put through an endurance test that was truly shocking. They froze it, ran over it with a big truck, dropped it from a helicopter on concrete, blew it up with the equivalent of a grenade and shot it with another pistol. It continued to function like nothing had happened to it. I've seen lots of these torture tests. None have compared to what they put that P220 through. It was just amazing how durable they were. When you shoot a pistol with another pistol and it still works you have one fine design

I have a 1990 "Made In W. Germany" model. I think the ones made there are the best quality based on what I've read about later models.

I carried mine for about a decade and during that time I dropped it on concrete a couple of times with no problems. I put about 15,000 rounds through it and I had to replace the recoil spring and that's it. Everything else still works fine.

They are very accurate pistols too. I drew a large crowd at the gun club one day when I was shooting my P220. They laughed at first when I moved a steel target back to 25 yards. They didn't laugh so much after I hit that target about 90% of the time shooting without a rest. In fact they went to get their friends to watch. They even got the rangemaster to see if he could match my shooting. He used a 629 and kept up just fine. When I ran out of .45 ammo I said I'd get another gun from the truck. When I came back with my own 629 the guy closed the range saying it was too dark and the management had complained about running the lights too much. Yeah right. That club has so much money they don't know what to do with it. They keep buying more land around the club and letting it sit idle. I had just bought the 629 though so he should have tried me on that because he would have beat me. After I learned a little about that gun he wouldn't have but that was like 2 days after I bought it. I had never shot it trying to get small groups yet.

At any rate that P220 of mine is very accurate out to 50-60 yards. Beyond that the bullets drift off. But wow is it accurate to that point.
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Old 08-06-2017, 11:43 PM
bc1023 bc1023 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C J View Post
"Acceptable durability"??? The P220 is one of the most robust pistols ever made. I saw one put through an endurance test that was truly shocking. They froze it, ran over it with a big truck, dropped it from a helicopter on concrete, blew it up with the equivalent of a grenade and shot it with another pistol. It continued to function like nothing had happened to it. I've seen lots of these torture tests. None have compared to what they put that P220 through. It was just amazing how durable they were. When you shoot a pistol with another pistol and it still works you have one fine design

I have a 1990 "Made In W. Germany" model. I think the ones made there are the best quality based on what I've read about later models.

I carried mine for about a decade and during that time I dropped it on concrete a couple of times with no problems. I put about 15,000 rounds through it and I had to replace the recoil spring and that's it. Everything else still works fine.

They are very accurate pistols too. I drew a large crowd at the gun club one day when I was shooting my P220. They laughed at first when I moved a steel target back to 25 yards. They didn't laugh so much after I hit that target about 90% of the time shooting without a rest. In fact they went to get their friends to watch. They even got the rangemaster to see if he could match my shooting. He used a 629 and kept up just fine. When I ran out of .45 ammo I said I'd get another gun from the truck. When I came back with my own 629 the guy closed the range saying it was too dark and the management had complained about running the lights too much. Yeah right. That club has so much money they don't know what to do with it. They keep buying more land around the club and letting it sit idle. I had just bought the 629 though so he should have tried me on that because he would have beat me. After I learned a little about that gun he wouldn't have but that was like 2 days after I bought it. I had never shot it trying to get small groups yet.

At any rate that P220 of mine is very accurate out to 50-60 yards. Beyond that the bullets drift off. But wow is it accurate to that point.
Yeah, its durable, but not one of the most robust pistols ever made. Its a folded stamped steel slide with an aluminum frame. Let's not get carried away. Its certainly not as robust as the pistol it replaced.

I also love the P220 and own several, including these two.
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Old 08-07-2017, 03:30 AM
Frank46 Frank46 is offline
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Think I paid $330 with tax and out the door for mine. We had a choice of holsters so I got the original AKAH police holster. While designed to be worn on a belt You can just press a button and now you have a high ride belt holster. Most of the slide wear was caused by the type of holster the P6 was carried in. The AKAH was the culprit here. The rivits are fully exposed on the inside of the holster and the slide sits in what looks like a plastic trough within the holster. I bought another AKAH holster and the rivits were flush with the leather. I qualified with it for my last two CCW courses. Probably the best used pistol I own. Frank
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Old 08-07-2017, 04:21 AM
dubtap21 dubtap21 is offline
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I own two Made in W. Germany P220's.....they are great guns.

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Old 08-07-2017, 04:36 AM
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Brian,

I remember when that gun came out and the ripples it left in the pool of the shooting community. I had shot the first ones available in Germany. While I could never really warm up to it enough to buy one, it is a very high quality firearm and the commercial success was absolutley justified. SIG Sauer in Eckernförde had been known for excellent quality and great quality control. I had the pleasure to be inside the SIG Sauer plant in Eckernförde on more than one occasion, once after the downsizing due to the export license loss.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C J View Post
"Acceptable durability"??? The P220 is one of the most robust pistols ever made. I saw one put through an endurance test that was truly shocking. They froze it, ran over it with a big truck, dropped it from a helicopter on concrete, blew it up with the equivalent of a grenade and shot it with another pistol. It continued to function like nothing had happened to it. I've seen lots of these torture tests. None have compared to what they put that P220 through. It was just amazing how durable they were. When you shoot a pistol with another pistol and it still works you have one fine design

I have a 1990 "Made In W. Germany" model. I think the ones made there are the best quality based on what I've read about later models.

I carried mine for about a decade and during that time I dropped it on concrete a couple of times with no problems. I put about 15,000 rounds through it and I had to replace the recoil spring and that's it. Everything else still works fine.

They are very accurate pistols too. I drew a large crowd at the gun club one day when I was shooting my P220. They laughed at first when I moved a steel target back to 25 yards. They didn't laugh so much after I hit that target about 90% of the time shooting without a rest. In fact they went to get their friends to watch. They even got the rangemaster to see if he could match my shooting. He used a 629 and kept up just fine. When I ran out of .45 ammo I said I'd get another gun from the truck. When I came back with my own 629 the guy closed the range saying it was too dark and the management had complained about running the lights too much. Yeah right. That club has so much money they don't know what to do with it. They keep buying more land around the club and letting it sit idle. I had just bought the 629 though so he should have tried me on that because he would have beat me. After I learned a little about that gun he wouldn't have but that was like 2 days after I bought it. I had never shot it trying to get small groups yet.

At any rate that P220 of mine is very accurate out to 50-60 yards. Beyond that the bullets drift off. But wow is it accurate to that point.
While a good pistol they weren't without their problems. Mags were re designed more than a few times due to problem feeding. The gun itself is dated by todays standards. Roll pins, especially the ones holding the breech should be changed every 5k rounds. The fact that they can go longer is great but also not a good idea. Which is why that design was dropped later.

Most combat handguns should be able to take that torture test. And if a gun....any gun can't hit steel plates at 25 yards there's something wrong with that gun. It either has to go back to the factory or the manufacturer has a serious design problem

Here's a 25 yard target. Head shots with a G23


Another 25 yard target shooting G19 and Sig 2022

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Last edited by Arik; 08-07-2017 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:28 AM
Ross3914 Ross3914 is offline
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I had a Browning imported "BDA" in .45 I bought used. It shot just like all the other P220's I've owned. Because the heel mag release worked on the floorplate, you could use the factory mags from the "American" mag release P220 with the zipper back. They were the same mag, with the push-button versions just having a hole punched in them.

It was a good shooting gun. I always kinda wanted a .38 Super version.
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:39 AM
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Never a real fan of carrying "cocked & locked" ....I transitioned from a 1911 to a W. German 220 to meet my .45 caliber needs once they got the magazine release properly placed!

Mine will shoot cloverleafs at 50 ft........ the only thing better than a 220 in .45acp IMHO is a Sig 245!
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Old 08-07-2017, 08:58 AM
Bakebfr480 Bakebfr480 is offline
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A local pawn shop has a dozen of them!
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Old 08-07-2017, 09:25 AM
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A local pawn shop has a dozen of them!
A dozen from 1976?
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Old 08-07-2017, 11:57 AM
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Most combat handguns should be able to take that torture test. And if a gun....any gun can't hit steel plates at 25 yards there's something wrong with that gun. It either has to go back to the factory or the manufacturer has a serious design problem
I wasn't the one all that impressed with hitting those targets at 25 yards. I was amazed at the people that were to be honest. I have no trouble hitting a target that size at that distance with any gun I own. But for some reason the people at my gun club freaked. Don't ask me why. I once put 11 rounds into a target the same size as the one at the gun range at 20 yards in 10 seconds. And it was a Taurus PT-145 which is by far the best pistol I ever shot for follow up shots. It recoils straight back into your hand and with a little bend in the elbow you can make it get right back on target practically as part of the recoil.

As for the pistol not being as robust as the torture test indicated I can't get past the part where they shot it with another pistol and it still worked. That's not something I would expect of most guns. And the fact it has an aluminum frame doesn't mean it won't endure whatever you use it for. I've put 15,000 rounds through mine and I bought it used. It was likely a duty pistol and had at least a few rounds though it when I bought it. As for the roll pins all I can say is it's still in one piece and I see no signs of stress anywhere. I keep an eye on things as much as possible. I rarely shoot it now because I've moved on to higher capacity pistols but I still believe it's a very robust design. If I was going to continue carrying it I probably would do all the maintenance stuff but it gets shot maybe once every two years now and then it's only 10-15 rounds or so. It was likely serviced by the LGS where I bought it. And it did make it through 15,000 rounds after that.
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Old 08-07-2017, 12:11 PM
dubtap21 dubtap21 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross3914 View Post
I had a Browning imported "BDA" in .45 I bought used. It shot just like all the other P220's I've owned. Because the heel mag release worked on the floorplate, you could use the factory mags from the "American" mag release P220 with the zipper back. They were the same mag, with the push-button versions just having a hole punched in them.

It was a good shooting gun. I always kinda wanted a .38 Super version.
I also have a BDA! It's been dead nuts accurate since the day I got it.

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Old 08-07-2017, 07:06 PM
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Enjoyed your post BC. I've owned P220s in several variations, and two of the calibers. I never torture tested any of them, but they were all fine pistols. Still have one, a KF dated 9MM. Going to try to hang on to this one
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