My new favorite carry pistol is the CZ 75B. I know that the 1911 is perfectly good to go cocked and locked (condition 1). That's how I carry and keep my 1911's.

What about the CZ 75B? It doesn't have a grip safety, just a thumb safety. It also has DA/SA mode capability, which requires the user to decock the hammer on a loaded chamber by pulling the trigger and carefully lowering the hammer.

Question: was this pistol designed with condition 1 in mind, or was it designed with DA/SA being the default mode of carry?

I know it's a choice. But I can't help but think that since the DA trigger reach is so darned long, maybe it was meant for condition 1?

I also know that European guns were typically carried by soldiers and police condition 3 back when this gun was designed.

Any thoughts on this?

(I've been carrying mine DA. After charging the pistol, I carefully decock the hammer down to full resting position.)

Even though I practice lowering the hammer when it's unloaded, I'm not crazy about doing it loaded because of the proximity of neighbors.

If I had more property, I'd point it in a safe direction and lower it to half-cock. It's a three position hammer and half-cock is how I'd prefer to carry it. It's the same position as the decocker models place the hammer.

It's safe to carry cocked and locked or hammer down. I don't think lowering a hammer safely is that big of a deal you just have to point the gun in a safe direction and really concentrate and be careful. I'd be much more nervous handling a striker fired gun with no safety and a modified or light trigger pull.

I don't have any experience with the CZ75B, but everything I've read about it says it's ok to carry cocked-and-locked. Personally, if I had one as a carry gun, that's the only way I'd carry it. I'm not entirely comfortable with manually decocking a cocked hammer (as opposed to using a decocking lever/safety), but that's just me. I wouldn't worry about the lack of a grip safety. As you probably know, the "B" means it has a firing pin safety (which is deactivated by pulling the trigger, such as when decocking the hammer). The Hi-Power doesn't have a grip safety and people have carried those in Condition 1. People also used to pin the grip safeties on 1911s. Just my opinion, but I think the grip safety is one of the negative aspects of the 1911 design.

The CZ75 was designed to be carried cocked and locked or hammer down for a da first shot.

The fact it could be carried cocked and locked was what endeared it to Jeff Cooper. This was the only 'wonder nine' Cooper admired. The Bren Ten was inspired by the CZ.

If I'm carrying my CZ 75B, I'll carry with the hammer in the 1/4 cock position for a DA first shot. Manually lowering the hammer on a live round isn't something I would ever advise for the inexperienced.

1. I have a clearing bucket in my basement. It's a 5 Gallon bucket with lid filled with sand. I make sure the muzzle is pointed into the bucket.

2. I put my thumb across the rear slide of the pistol to totally block the hammer.

3. I will ride my thumb on the hammer. I will press and release the trigger. I can feel the hammer release. I slowly release the hammer to 1/4 cock position.

If for some reason I cause a negligent discharge, the bucket will catch the projectile. Otherwise, carrying cocked and locked is perfectly fine given:

• Your CZ 75B's safety is in perfect working order.
• Your safety isn't easy to unintentionally disengage.
• Your holster's design won't unintentionally disengage the safety.

I do not carry the CZ 75B full size often. When I do carry a CZ, I carry a CZ 75D PCR. Compact CZ with a decocker. Chamber a round, depress the decocker, holster up and I'm good to go.

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-John

I liked mine very much, but did have qualms about lowering the hammer on a live round, just as I did with a Colt .45 Govt. Model.

I carried in DA mode,but would have left it cocked with safety on had I become engaged in a gunfight and moving from one position to another or holding a prisoner at gunpoint.

I think I did cock the hammer and leave my finger off the trigger when checking rooms where I'd heard sounds that shouldn't have occurred. But I was anticipating immediate use of the gun.

I always carried hammer down and safety off,as I do with all DA auto pistols. I carried Colts and Brownings cocked and locked. By bedside, chamber loaded and hammer down.

Disclaimer: these are personal experiences and not intended as advice to the public.

There is a CZ-75BD, which has a hammer-lowering lever. But I don't think it can be carried cocked and locked. I was used to the Colt, and wanted that feature.

This thread is very timely for me as I have my first "safety" (i.e., "non-decocker") CZ pistol on its way to me as we speak. It's a RAMI safety/dual mode model and it was the only RAMI I could get my hands on... plus street price is somewhat lower on the safety model. It's unlikely that I will carry this particular pistol very often, but if/when I do, it will be carried hammer down or at the half-cock position. I may change my mind in time about that, but that's my intent.

If I eventually decide that manual decocking poses an unacceptable safety risk, I'll sell the gun and either try to obtain a RAMI decocker model or give it up entirely and move on to something else.

It has been my understanding the CZ was meant to be carried cocked and locked. The DA was a back up if there was a failure to fire you could pull the trigger before doing action clearing drills. Col. Cooper trained a S. American protection detail that carried Hi-Powers cocked on a loaded chamber without safety engaged. They said it was faster. Each of us has to work out our own salvation.

They carried a SA only pistol cocked without engaging the safety? Do you have a source for that information?

If decocking a pistol with a round in the chamber while at home, you should build yourself a decocking station. Basically, somewhere to point the gun in a safe direction--for example a large bucket filled with sand (edit--as was mentioned above). When decocking the pistol, keep it pointed in the barrel, if you have an accidental discharge, the bullet will be trapped without causing damage except to your hearing. I have heard some people use stacked books.

I'd like to see a thread on your range impressions when you get it. Good luck.

Even the legendary Colonel Jeff Cooper had at least one (and I'm guessing many more than one) negligent discharge in his day. Doesn't sound like a good idea to me to be carrying a Hi-Power cocked and unlocked even with a ****** stiff trigger.

Back in the good old days, I never had an issue carrying a 1911 cocked and locked, but I always pointed to the grip safety when folks questioned my carry mode. But I'm much older now and grip safeties haven't caught on so much... ... plus I pocket carry more than anything else these days.

Bottom line is that I wouldn't look good walking around with an extra limp that I really don't need. I've been spoiled by DA/SA pistols with decockers and DAO pistols. The RAMI safety model is a little out of character for me, but my PCR was something of a disappointment with its weird long reach (for me) and its razor-sharp serrated trigger. The RAMI is my second attempt at a truly likeable compact CZ.

One of the main reasons I like the CZ75 family of pistols is the DA/SA. My SP01 Shadow is a safety model and I keep it in the nightstand with a loaded chamber , hammer at 1/4 cock. I have been lowering hammers on many different kinds of pistols and revolvers all my adult life. Follow your basic firearms rules and concentrate, no problems. I do prefer rowel hammers on pistols as they make it easier to safely lower the hammer.

I have a CZ 75 and a PO1 Shadow. The later is a range only competition gun, the former is an early 75. The Shadow is cocked, safety on for match or practice. The 75 is a gun I got from my Dad and during the time that I carried it off duty, it was hammer down loaded. The decision is yours to make, I don't think that consciously lowering the hammer (safe direction) is an issue. If it is carry it Israeli style, loaded mag, empty chamber, jack a round as you draw.

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Made it, Ma! Top of the world!

There is a tip I picked up from a CZ forum for dry-fire practice, that would also work as a barrier to accidental discharge when manually lowering the hammer.

I put an o-ring used for faucet repair in the hammer notch at the rear of the slide for dry-fire, surrounding the firing pin.

I once forgot to take it out at the range, and the chambered round was untouched.

Can't find the PCR anywhere, there's a looooong list for them at all lgs"s.
I had a like new one in my hands a few weeks back and stupidly left it in the store. I went back a week later....gone.

I left a NYSP 681 in a gun shop a couple months back also, cause I have one. Called a week later, gone.

I'm trying not to impulse buy but it hasn't worked out so well lately.

I have read that U.S. Army Special Forces soldiers in Vietnam would carry their 1911s chamber loaded, hammer cocked, manual safety off, and the grip safety taped or strapped down. I don't know if that's true or, if true, how prevalent it was. If true, keep in mind this was also before 1911s came with firing pin safeties.

I've also seen a picture of a soldier carrying a 1911 in a thigh holster in Iraq, and it looked like the grip safety was taped down. IIRC, it was presumed he was either Special Forces or Delta Force.

I'm not advocating or recommending either approach, and it's not something I would do even though I don't like the grip safety on 1911s, but these things have been done.

I would chalk that up to soldiers fighting in a warzone. It's not something for an old fart like me who is more likely to win the lottery than come up against a violent armed predator in my usual daily activities and travels.

Good point.

Just remember that razor-sharp serrated trigger issue. I recommend getting one with the smooth black trigger... but even better, try both before buying. Some folks like the serrated trigger for when it's cold or wet outside or if your hands tend to get real sweaty. For me it's just too uncomfortable... and I plan to change it first opportunity I get.

Yes, I remember that conversation about the trigger. I have to say, the CZ's, well at least the PCR from what I've handled, has the most perfect grip, for me, of any gun out there.
The only rival, again for me, are Spegels on revolvers, they just fit so perfect.

I probably should have added that some folks prefer the serrated trigger but file down the sharp edges so that they don't draw so much blood!

Those sticky, aggressively-checkered rubber grips do give the gun a tight and solid hold for sure. Once again, it has taken a lot for me to get used to them simply because they are so different from what I am used to. If they work well for you, that's a huge plus.

1776, I'm not sure of the original design intent, but clearly it is a choice whether to carry cocked and locked, or DA. I like that the platform gives the flexibility to choose either option.

I've got four CZs, a couple have the decocker and a couple have the safety. I prefer to carry in 1/4 cock DA. Personally, I've found the safeties on the CZs to not have the most secure engagement. I've had one of mine disengage in the holster when trying cocked and lock carry with it. I've carried quite a bit with Colt 1911s and those safeties have a much more secure engagement.

Anyway, DA carry is a great option and my CZs have very good DA triggers. In a real world situation DA is a fast-fire option, just pull the trigger, no safety to think about/fiddle with. And, if you have time, you can always cock the hammer for a lighter trigger pull. Win/win...

Also, I really don't understand all of the drama surrounding manually decocking a loaded gun. Point the muzzle in a safe direction and use some deliberate care in the process. Been doing it safely for many years...

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NRA Life Member

Some gun owners don't control enough property to have a safe direction for muzzle orientation when pulling the trigger on a loaded chamber. I do it flawlessly all the time on an empty chamber, but there is Murphy's law to consider when loaded.

JaPes's clearing bucket (Post 6) is a good solution.

I am not familiar with the firing pin system on the CZ 75 - if the half-cock notch shears from a blow (such as being dropped), will the hammer have enough momentum to fire it? If so, wouldn't it be safer to carry it with the hammer fully down?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

This is where my CZ "expertise" abruptly ends and I have to rely on others. I note that at least some alleged CZ Gurus insist that you are better off (safer from dropping, impacts) carrying at half-cock than carrying hammer down.

That said, I'm more than happy to stand corrected and delete this post if others here know better.

Since we are talking about the CZ-75B, the firing pin safety would take care of things if the half cock notch gave way on impact. On a vintage pre-block 75 or 85 this is not the case.

The advantage of using the half cock is a shorter DA pull in addition to the comments above.

There is a model 75, and one of it's successors since the early 90's, the 75B. The 75B has the firing pin safety. This is from the CZ75B owners manual. The Decocking section is for decocker equipped models, though applicable to manual decocking.

Thanks for posting. So, from this I gather when the hammer is fully forward the firing pin block is working, but if at half-cock it is not? Or if it slips forward from half-cock the firing pin block will prevent a discharge?

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

The firing pin block is engaged in all three hammer positions on the 75B model. It will not fire unless the trigger is pulled.

The firing pin block on the CZ is a vertical plunger in the slide spring loaded downward,
When it is down it blocks the firing pin from moving forward enough to strike a primer, but there is a small amount of movement.
There is a lever in the sear cage that presses the plunger upward only when the trigger is pulled.
As the plunger moves up it allows the firing pin full movement. It can now strike the primer.

The half-cocked position created by the safety stop on the hammer, will stop the hammer falling if you are manually decocking with a pull and release of the the trigger, once the hammer starts moving forward.

BTW: The thumb safety on the 75B is only able to be engaged in the fully cocked hammer position.

Which is interesting to me. On my SP01 Shadow the safety can be engaged on 1/4 or full cock.

Hmmm Abby normal.

Yes, that model is known for that.

I'll pass this tidbit on as a rumor I know nothing factual about. There are a couple of models like your SP that the safety engages in multiple hammer positions. The "Rumor" is that in those other safe positions, a heavy pull of the trigger can damage internal parts causing a malfunction. Like I said, that's just something I read on a CZ forum.

I was watching a movie the other day which was dated 1930..... The folks using auto pistols had them loaded with a round in the chamber.

Why have an auto pistol if it is not as ready to go as a revolver?

They knew it 75 years ago .. why do we not know it today???.....

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A Snider squibbed n the Jungle

I'm confused. What does that have to do with this thread?

I have an EAA Witness in 10mm(I'd have a CZ but they don't offer 10mm)

The operation of the Witness is the same as a 75B.. I practice drawing from concealed on a regular basis.

I draw and pull trigger from DA then lower hammer to 1/4 cock and repeat.

My gun is holstered ONLY in 1/4 cock. As noted just be careful. 100's of times so far and all good.

That has to do with the depth of the hammer hooks and their relation to the sear, and the sear/safety relation. The 75B models have more sear engagement so the safety can only engaged fully cocked. The Shadows has less sear engagement (for a better trigger) so often the safety can be engaged at the 1/2 cock notch. I have three B models with a CZ Custom Competition hammer (which require fitting of the safety for correct function), and all three I can engage the safety decocked, 1/2 cock or fully.

I carry my Rami hammer down on a loaded chamber. I sometimes pocket carry it, and I'm not comfortable with cocked and locked in my pocket. So I carry it the same way all the time even when not pocket carrying. I don't want to have to remember which way it's being carried today if I ever need it (God forbid).

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Or something like that . . .

Please excuse my OT post, but I have a chance to get a like new 75B, with an extra mag and box. They want $450. Is that a good price?

I have no problem lowering the hammer on a loaded chamber. Been doing it all my life with single shot shotguns and the like. Don't recall ever having an AD.

If you don't have to drive far, that's a good price. BD's bring more.

It's right here in town, at my club. I'm wanting something I can shoot 50-100 rounds. I'm getting to where I don't want to do that with my 1911.
I saw where Bud's is asking around $600 for a new one.

Never owned a 75B with its firing pin safety. All mine have been preB models. Still carry my 86' model cocked and locked or hammer down DA in a Bruce Nelson Summer Special that I had made in 88'.

CD

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De Oppresso Liber

I've no comment on the price being asked, but if your looking for a comfortable shooting range gun that rewards your efforts, a 75B is a good option. In all likelihood, the stock sights will be insufficient. Some paint or nail polish can help, if you don't want to replace them.

For those wanting to carry cocked and locked there is the recently discontinued 75B-SA which is single action only like a BHP or 1911. I am looking at one right now for possible purchase. I have a very hard to find and popular P-01 Omega. It is a compact with full dust cover single/double action or can be changed to a safety and carried cocked and locked.

Here is my old 86' dated pre B in Bruce Nelson Summer Special. Carried it in North Dakota down to -50 degrees. Have also used them in Iraq at 130 degrees. Have carried this gun on and off since 88'.


CD

Attached Images

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	CZ75 left side Bruce Nelson rig.jpeg (35.9 KB, 31 views)
	CZ75 right side Bruce Nelson rig.jpeg (28.5 KB, 32 views)

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De Oppresso Liber

I had a Cz-75 Omega and I really liked it but the double action trigger pull felt like 20 lbs! My old, cheap clone 1992 EAA Witness .40 had about a 10lb double action pull and nice crisp single action pull and was extremely accurate so I sold the Omega and later bought a Tri Star clone. The Tri Star had about a 13lb trigger pull and I was frustrated and bought a Cajun Gunworks mainspring for $11 and it made the DA pull around 8lbs which was great! I'm very happy with my Tri Star S-120 clone and it is quite accurate and perfectly reliable but a bit heavy, I wish EAA still made their old small frame Witness pistol it was almost exactly the size and weight of a Browing High Power.

Condition One / Cocked & Locked, as JMB and Jeff Cooper intended.

The grip safety on the 1911 is a "nice to have" especially if you have the 1911 attached to your belt via a lanyard loop and you are riding a horse while using your 1911--and may have to drop it in favor of your Model 1913 Cavalry Saber.

Point being, there are plenty of pistols other than the CZ75 capable and perfectly safe to carry C&L...that do not sport a grip safety. And that the grip safety was a product of US Army cavalry requirements.

Off the top of my head, other non-grip-safety C&L capable semi-autos:
Browning High Power
SIG P220 SAO
Several H&K models
CZ-75 SA

The CZ-75B is a great design with arguably better ergonomics than the 1911 Colt. Whereas the 1911 tends to be muzzle heavy and bit square in the grip feel, the CZ has full grips that match the hand contours well, with a front like a Browning Hi-Power. When loaded the bulk of the pistol's weight sits inside the circle of the grip hand. Despite being all-steel, and 35 ounces, the pistol feels surprisingly light in the hand thanks to how that weight is distributed.

[The Czech people have been building forward-thinking and innovative weapons for a long time and many popular military weapons from around the world began in the mind of a CZ design. In fact, all the elements present in modern light machineguns began with the ZB-26 - Britain copied it under license as the BREN, and later adaptations used belt feed. Despite excellent designs of their own, it wasn't the German barrel design that we prefer today, it was the ZB with integral handle, 90 deg throw release, and bipod affixed to the receiver extension versus the early M60 where they had on the barrel!]

On the other side of the world the CZ design has inspired its own share of manufacturers who reproduce the design almost unchanged from the original - even those with polymer lowers!

Unfortunately, the CZ has a rather long, heavy trigger pull. This can be mitigated by placing the hammer on the "safety notch" which makes the first 3rd or so of the trigger's movement simple slack take-up, with actual cocking force appearing when the index finger has much better leverage. But clearly CZ must have decided the option of a thumb safety for C&L carry was desirable, and so added it. With the hammer back, safety on, the trigger is retracted most of the way back with short pull - not as crisp as a 1911, but plenty crisp for a combat gun and then some.

In "condition one" the CZ fits the hand perfectly! The trigger is where it needs to be and the grip feels great. Being located with its hinge-point forward, the thumb tends to land directly on the safety. IMO the CZ safety is better located the 1911, though having said that there have been many modifications along the way that reduces the difference to preference. I've got a Rock Island with a wonderful dual safety with just the right size and shape, AND resistance going up and down! The CZ has the same feel...the safety goes or off easily, but with a positive resistance that denotes surety.

So, with that said, I view the CZ's DA feature as more of a "second strike" capability rather than primary capability. For those uncomfortable with an applied external safety under pressure, the CZ offers that safety notch carry with a sort of "mid-point" pull that will get the first shot off. Since the CZ-75B has a firing pin block safety that demands the trigger be held back during hammer fall, there there is no risk in having the gun on the safety notch - if the parts snapped (HIGHLY NEVER LIKELY), the firing pin would remain locked, and at that point in the hammer's arc, it lacks sufficient force to detonate a cartridge - if it COULD, we just do away with all that needless cocking arc!

The CZ-75B is made better by the use of polymer frames, though there is a lot of comfort in steel...

The only way I know of to make the CZ-75B "better" is to fit an Armscor .22 TCM9R barrel intended for their RIA branded MAPP FS with polymer frame, yet a near "drop-in" fit for the "old original" CZ!
The target in this video was a wedge-shaped section of poured concrete. Shooting was done holding the pistol in one hand and an iPhone in the other to capture the shooter's view which made accuracy a challenge.

Attached Images

	CZ75B 556x24 safety on.jpg (157.7 KB, 23 views)
	CZ75B556x24 mag out.jpg (149.0 KB, 22 views)