An additional new-to-me find today at the local gun show. One table had several Government Model .45 ACP clones, new in plastic boxes - all boxes and guns marked "Llama". They looked very good, not like GI versions from Rock Island, etc. Priced at $429. My first thought was "did Llama start making guns again?" When I picked one up for a better look, they were frame-stamped "Made in the Philippines." Has anyone else seen these?

I had a Llama 22lr . . . ugggh, worse $120 I've ever spent. It looked nice. . .

I have a Llama 45 that my father in law gave me, he carried it in WW2, had it on Iwo Jima. He was there on that famous day, but was not part of the flag raising that went down in history.
My Llama functions perfectly with the original mag., but will not work with any other I've tried. I'd have to re-check but I thought mine was made in Argentina, I'd need to look at the gun again to verify. My ser# is 9793xx

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Certified NRA rifle instructor

Never heard of the Philippines one but it could just be that the name Llama remained. Like Springfield Armory is just a name and not related to the original Springfield Armory Arsenal.

My experience with Spanish guns is I avoid them. There was such a difference from gun to gun that they have nothing I would want to spend actual green money on. Even $100 I wouldn't take a chance. No point when a $100 will also get you 500 rounds of ammo or a nice bottle of liquor

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At the Tyler, TX gun show today, a LLama 45 auto sold for 450 Dollars.
xlnt condition.

As a previous owner of an original Spanish Llama Large Frame Automatic (which is what Llama called it) .45, I had no complaints whatsoever about its quality and finish. Except that most of its parts were not interchangeable with Colts or Colt clones, and Colt-type magazines did not work so well in it. I had two correct Llama .45 magazines, and they functioned correctly. I also was a previous owner of a pre-WWII Llama "Extra" in 9mm Largo (in which I used mostly .38 Super), and that's another of those guns I am sorry I sold. I also had a Llama 2" revolver in .38 Special I could add to my list of good Spanish guns. Pretty much a clone of the S&W K-frame. It would be difficult to convince me that Spanish Llamas are junk given my personal experience to the contrary.

The "new" Llamas are most definitely not Spanish. I think the reputable Spanish handgun makers such as Llama, Star, and Astra have been out of the gun manufacturing business for a long time. That is why I was surprised to see the old Llama name on a Philippine-made pistol.

My LGS owner back in 1976 wouldn't sell me a Llama 22 1911 because he said I wouldn't be satisfied with it. He told me I wanted a gun that shoots, not repairable. Glad he did that for me.

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S&WHF 366

Spanish guns makers outsourced to many smaller companies. Some were good, some not so much and some should never have been in the gun business. Ebar had a whole cottage industry around Llama, Astra and Star. Depending on how you shoot you may never know the difference. Some companies didn't bother with heat treating while others used poor raw materials. It just depended on the 3 main companies and what they needed/how much they tried to save.

It's the equivalent of Spanish and Belgian copies of old S&W revolvers. Made by many companies, some better than others but no one will claim they're good
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Llama & Llama...Spanish ones though

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C & L

This is the website of the new Llama importer, Eagle Imports: Home Page - Llama Firearms by Eagle Imports, Inc. - Eagle Imports, Inc.
I also found this: "Now manufactured by Metro Arms in the Philippines, the old classic Llama designs are being built with improved materials, quality and workmanship." Except I know nothing about Metro Arms. Does anyone?

Years ago my brother bought a new Llama .45. We had a heck of a time getting it to chamber a round but it finally did. The expended fired case looked like a bugle! One shot gun. He got his money back. Wish I would have kept that case. When I hear the word "Llama" my thoughts always go back to that case.

How'd he get a Llama .45 back then?

I'd like to see the gun. If it is really marked Llama, it isn't from Argentina, which made better copies of the Colt, under license, and a spin-off, called the Ballester-Molina, more like a Star design.

NONE of these guns would have likely been available to an American soldier in WW II, unless Stoeger was already importing Llama guns, and in .45 caliber.

I'd certainly like to see this gun, including sharp pics of the markings.

Did your FIL come from outside the USA, from some country where he might have acquired such a gun before his US military service?

I think that there wasn't much civilian gun manufacturing of any kind being done in Spain from the period from the Spanish Civil War through WWII. And I don't know of any .45 pistols being made in Spain or being imported into the USA until the early 1960s (Star and Llama).

Interesting. They all look like they have grip safeties. I wonder if it's not another Rock Island rebranded with the Llama name. This would be easy to do.....Or if it's actually a Llama reborn

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I had a Llama in .38 Super many years ago. Three rounds into the first magazine I put through it, the slide stop flew off into the grass at the range. I finally found it,reassembled the pistol..... & traded it away.

Best,
Charles

I've seen pics of Star .45's issued to Buenos Aires police, made the late 1940's. They probably supplemented the actual Colt and license-built Colts from Domingo Mathieu Arsenal in Rosario.

They 'd have ordered from Star in .45, as that was the Argentine police and military caliber then. I never saw Star .45's in the US until the 1960's. When Llama guns appeared here in the 1950's, I think only .22's and .380's were offered for some years.

How could that happen?

Llama brought out their Model IX (9) in 1936..large frame semiauto in 45acp caliber.
They mfg'd and sold them to anyone who would buy them.

A large number of LLama pistols went to Asia & China in the years just before WW2 thru a retailer named Jose Mugica.
Based in Eibar, he had Llama build pistols with his name (Mugica) on them and he exported them to those areas and any where else he could make a peso.
He sold contracts to Siam's govt starting in the early 30's but that all ended when the Japanese invaded there in '41. He continued to export to China and where ever else he could sell.
Another large retailer of LLama pistols at that time was 'Tauler' (also Eibar based company) with the pistols marked as such on the slides. These were imported into the US as well as other places around the world. Tauler pistols were all marked in English, not Spanish. They do have the Spanish triade proof marks though
There's also a couple Tauler designs that don't appear 'LLama',,but rather more Beretta. Don't know about those, who made them, ect.

Tauler was gone from the scene once the Spanish Civil War was under way (35 or 36?)
(Mr Tauler was said to be a (former) secret police official of some sort in a former life. Maybe not so secret.)

So it's possible he/they didn't even get in on the LLama Model IX 45acp cal pistol to export any around the globe.


Just some info...

To say that all Spanish made pistols are junk is, well, to put it politely, ludicrous. For the most part, those who make these kind of statements usually have no, or very little, experience with them. As with any manufacturer, there have been poor designs and/or poor workmanship. (Ever see any complaints about new S&Ws, hmmm?)

I've owned and shot quite a few Astras, Llamas and Stars. Some were chunks, but most were/are fine handguns. And don't forget that Star pretty much started the modern trend of mass-produced, large caliber semi-autos for concealed carry with their Firestar line. They are of very high quality and received much praise by all the gun mags in the early '90s. There was also the Star PD in .45 ACP. Just TRY to talk someone who owns a Firestar, or a PD, out of them, including me! Good luck on that, brother.

As for the "new" Llamas by Metro Arms, I would not hesitate to give them a whirl. I've shot a few 1911 clones made in the Philippines and have had no problems with them. They certainly are more reliable than an old Essex I used to own.

I have to agree with ExcitableBoy when it comes to Spanish pistols. I currently own an Astra Constable in 22LR (pictured below) and it is a wonderful pistol. Very accurate and a joy to shoot. In the past I also owned a Star PD which was a great little pistol in 45ACP. The only reason I sold it was because spare parts are pretty much nonexistent and I wanted to shoot it, but didn't want to break it. The Star was very well made and the fit and finish on both are/were great.

Llama is the worst when it comes to in spec parts compatibility so good luck

Gotta call ya out on this one...

Parts compatibility to and from what?

Of course, I am sure that you have personally mic'ed, retro-fitted and thoroughly tested all components concerned... with whatever pistols you are slamming???

Nothing personal... it's just an egregious statement, like saying all S&W revolvers ever produced are just piles because some putz assembler didn't clock a barrel properly on a new 629, or Gramps' old Victory shaves lead, so they're all junk.

Declaring absolutes about anything is an iffy undertaking.

I suspect it is just the Llama name that has been revived to go on new CNC produced 1911s in the Philippines. Can't see any parts issues with that plan.

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Release the Kraken

METROARMS (sometimes appearing as "Metro Arms") Distributes a nice line of 1911 pistols which they call American Classic II. These are made in Manila, Philippines. The one I have (very well made .38 Super) is marked "IMPORTED BY RSA ENTERPRISES, INC, OCEAN, N.J.". Nothing in the meager paperwork that came with it mentions anything about a line of LLAMA pistols.

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Saying that no Llama parts are interchangeable is an absolute, and obviously false. Saying that Llama is the worst [manufacturer] for interchangeability of parts is a comparison of manufacturers, and, since some manufacturer has to be the worst, is possibly true.

I had a Metro Arms, 1911 in 9mm for a short time. That thing was as slick a 1911 as I've ever seen. The slide felt like it was on ball bearings or something. With the features it had, (extended slide release, oversized safety, beavertail grip safety, beveled magazine well, three dot sights, skeletonized trigger and hammer, and some really nice wood grips, I felt like it was a steal for less than $400.00 (used but pretty much like new).

I kept it for while, no problems at all with it. Shot well, no malfunctions. I saw some other bright shiny thing and sold it off to finance that.

Metro Arms is a different company than Rock Island, but is also located in the Philippines.

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John 3:16 .

Regarding the Spanish large frame .45 Llama, there is probably little parts interchangeability between it and a Colt or Colt clone. For sure, the slides, barrels, and grips will not interchange, and the Llama .45 magazines are tight in a Colt frame. I tried that so I know it to be true. I know nothing regarding parts interchangeability with other Llama revolvers of the same type.

I had mentioned earlier about my Llama .38 snubby revolver similar to the K-frame. I remember that the revolver was stamped Llama, but the original box was labeled "Ruby". The Llama manufacturer was Gabilondo y Cia in Eibar, and I believe that they also used the trade name Ruby at one time for their products. Llama, Star, and Astra were all pretty much history by the late 1990s. But it seems that at least the Llama brand may be making a comeback via Manila. As I said, the new Llama .45s by Metro I saw struck me as being fairly neat pistols at a not-terrible price.

"Ruby" was a trademarked name used by Gabilondo y Cia early on. They first used it when they submitted a small frame 32 auto to the French during WW1 for adoption. The French liked it and orderd a crazy # or them, even named it 'Type Ruby Pistol'. Most were made by other Spanish companies though Gabilondo y Cia made plenty of them themselves.
The Ruby name stuck with the 32 pistols in general, and many were of low quality from the long list of other mfg'rs. G y Cia continued to malke and market Ruby pistols into the 1930's including the somewhat popular Ruby Plus Ultra,,a high cap and avail in select fire pistol. This one sold pretty well in the Asia markets.

Gabilondo y Cia didn't trademark the name 'LLama' till the very early 1930's. They kept the Ruby trademark but favored the LLama mark as a restart in marketing their firearms.

Most Eibar made Ruby marked offerings for US import were gone from catalogs by the late 50's.

They did start again making 'Ruby' trademarked revolvers in the later 1950's, but these were mfg'd in the Phillipines.
Called 'Ruby Extra Revolvers'. Close copys of the K Smith but a coil main spring and some other internal differences. The factory was run by Gabilondo y Cia. Lasted to around early 70's.

I don't recall them making any semiautos at the Phillipine factory in that 1950/70 time period,,but,,

I stand behind my statements and llama is a blight on the 1911 itself. You can do no worse. It is the Jennings of 1911's

I had an uncle that flew P-40s with the Flying Tigers for slightly less than 2 years before coming back to America and joining the Army Air Corps. He had an Astra 600 and a LLama 45 cal he carried and brought back with him from Asia. How do I know this....my cousin has, and still shoots 2 rounds out of each of these guns on his dad's birthday.....one for him and one for his deceased brother.

Impossible considering the cottage industry around the Spanish guns. Like I said earlier.... there were many small gun shops that the big 3 outsourced parts to. Some shops made really good parts, some not so much. Some didn't bother year treating. All these parts went to the manufacturer for final assembly. Which one you got was luck of the draw. That is not good odds. At best 50/50. If the gun you carry is the one you ALWAYS practice with you'll find problems. If you shoot a few rounds every now and then it may take a long long time. Longevity isn't counted by years, it's counted by rounds

Now I'm talking about the Llamo, Astra and Star post WW2. I don't know how they were before.

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