|
|
09-22-2017, 08:31 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 272
Likes: 391
Liked 837 Times in 145 Posts
|
|
Winchester Model 12 Riot Gun
Hello all
Just picked this gun up from LGS. I know very little about Model 12s, but thought is was a cool gun, and did a little research before buying.
This one was a Tacoma, PD gun and dates to 1959. There were two on the rack, but this one was in far better condition. The forend is chipped, but I found one on ebay for 40 bucks, so it is on the way.
I got the gun for $249.99 before tax. Don't know if that was a good price, but I saw that the riot length (20") was a bit more difficult to find, so I grabbed it.
How'd I do? Anyone have one of these, or use one in their LEO days?
-lc
Last edited by lowercase; 09-22-2017 at 09:57 PM.
|
The Following 29 Users Like Post:
|
.455_Hunter, 2ndshift, 6518John, Ashlander, Bill Bates, Blademan, Bosquebass, Collo Rosso, CZU, diegobxr, Inusuit, JayCeeNC, JohnRippert, kwselke, lawandorder, Lee's Landing Billy, LoadedRound, model70hunter, Ole Joe Clark, Papaw, richcory, RTILSON, shouldazagged, sigp220.45, Tadeus67, TAROMAN, Texas Star, Watchdog, wundudnee |
09-22-2017, 08:35 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: DFW Texas
Posts: 190
Likes: 1,006
Liked 145 Times in 84 Posts
|
|
From a novice; you did great, I had a Mod 12 with 20 inch barrel and had a blast.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-22-2017, 08:46 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ellis County, Texas
Posts: 510
Likes: 2,218
Liked 941 Times in 281 Posts
|
|
I couldn't tell you what it's worth but a lot of people including myself think that the 12 is the best pump shotgun ever made. I'd have paid $250 in a heartbeat.
__________________
"I gots to know"
|
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-22-2017, 08:54 PM
|
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: PA.
Posts: 9,773
Likes: 50,901
Liked 44,476 Times in 8,620 Posts
|
|
Looks like you got a good deal and they are great shotguns!
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-22-2017, 09:03 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,469
Likes: 271
Liked 1,207 Times in 659 Posts
|
|
A LGS has one in better condition for $750.00!
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-22-2017, 09:24 PM
|
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: The Flint Hills - Kansas
Posts: 1,027
Likes: 2,348
Liked 3,294 Times in 676 Posts
|
|
The ultimate irony!! Stealing former police property!!!!
Ya' done good!
__________________
SWCA 3297 SWHF 583
|
The Following 6 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 08:37 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: DUNNELLON, FLORIDA USA
Posts: 11,102
Likes: 1,690
Liked 16,300 Times in 4,231 Posts
|
|
Over my LEO career I was issued Winchesters Models 97, 10 and 12, Ithaca Model 37s, Remington Models 870 and 1100, and finally Mossberg Model 590. The Winchesters and Ithaca were responsible for many ADs as they did not have automatic disconnects and could be "Slam Fired"
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 09:51 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Hills of North Georgia
Posts: 5,118
Likes: 1,850
Liked 12,440 Times in 3,403 Posts
|
|
After thievery like that I hope you can sleep well tonight.
__________________
LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE
|
09-23-2017, 09:59 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SE Wyoming
Posts: 2,982
Likes: 4,748
Liked 4,788 Times in 1,677 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj
Over my LEO career I was issued Winchesters Models 97, 10 and 12, Ithaca Model 37s, Remington Models 870 and 1100, and finally Mossberg Model 590. The Winchesters and Ithaca were responsible for many ADs as they did not have automatic disconnects and could be "Slam Fired"
|
I suggest the operators were responsible for the Negligent Discharges (ADs), not the firearm.
OP, I own a couple of Model 12s and lust for an Ithaca 37. You did very good with your purchase
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 10:10 AM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
|
|
You got a 58-year-old shotgun that will last another 58 years for only $250?!? That's simply outstanding, period.
Around here, I haven't seen a Model 12 factory riot gun sell for that price since the early 90s. I bought one in 1990-something for $300 and thought I got a bargain. I actually did get a bargain, because I couldn't buy one like that around here for twice that price...and that's if I could find one.
There's one for sale now at an LGS for $850...and the serial numbers don't even match! And as far as I can tell, it's the only one in town for sale.
I'm a big Model 12 fan. My thinking is that they weren't called "The Perfect Repeater" for nothing.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 10:20 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Richmond, Virginia
Posts: 4,011
Likes: 3,225
Liked 3,837 Times in 1,955 Posts
|
|
You stole it at that price- congrats! Love the classic Model 12 in any configuration!
|
09-23-2017, 10:32 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,307
Likes: 1,623
Liked 3,795 Times in 877 Posts
|
|
I would make sure that I go back to that LGS, either they are really hard up for sales or they have no idea how to price firearms, also they must not have internet to look up prices, you sir got a great deal!
__________________
Life NRA, Life TSRA, C&R FFL
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 10:58 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,421
Likes: 995
Liked 3,595 Times in 1,521 Posts
|
|
I've got my grandfather's old Model 12, with a barrel long enough to reach into the next county. I'd love a 20" riot model.
|
09-23-2017, 11:02 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,705
Likes: 1,049
Liked 3,510 Times in 957 Posts
|
|
I'd go back and get the other one too. If not in ad good of shape maybe you could get it for $200
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 12:46 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: VA
Posts: 1,918
Likes: 8,064
Liked 2,994 Times in 883 Posts
|
|
Congrats to the OP. Was looking at one myself but it's an odd duck. It's got the U.S. Stamp and flaming bomb on the receiver with a 20" vent rib barrel with cutts compensator. Pretty sure the military used some models for aerial training that had standard length barrels and maybe a cutts installed but a vent rib at 20"?
__________________
BCCI Life Member #2068
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 01:34 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Simmons
Congrats to the OP. Was looking at one myself but it's an odd duck. It's got the U.S. Stamp and flaming bomb on the receiver with a 20" vent rib barrel with cutts compensator. Pretty sure the military used some models for aerial training that had standard length barrels and maybe a cutts installed...
|
To the best of my knowledge, the most frequently used shotgun with long barrels and compensators was the Remington Model 11. Semi-autos were much better suited for aerial gunnery training than pump shotguns.
Here's a photo of a Model 11 set up for gunnery training.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 01:52 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Auburn, Kansas
Posts: 1,287
Likes: 4,481
Liked 4,758 Times in 875 Posts
|
|
As you can see from the above posts, you got a deal. I would have bought them both in a minute. However I got mine cheaper, $55.00 in Montgomery Wards in 1954. It is flaming bomb and U.S. marked and has been seriously bubbed up. I've hunted with it all my life.
You couldn't find a better home defense shotgun, especially for the price.
|
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 05:29 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by wundudnee
As you can see from the above posts, you got a deal. I would have bought them both in a minute. However I got mine cheaper, $55.00 in Montgomery Wards in 1954. It is flaming bomb and U.S. marked and has been seriously bubbed up. I've hunted with it all my life.
You couldn't find a better home defense shotgun, especially for the price.
|
Not being funny here...I'm not familiar with the term "bubbed up". What does that mean?
Have you done a serial number search to see when your gun was made? It almost has to be from 1941-1944... possibly 1945, but I kinda doubt it. At least the receiver does. Do the serial numbers on the receiver and the barrel assembly match? Just curious.
|
09-23-2017, 06:39 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Arizona
Posts: 3,222
Likes: 2,905
Liked 5,333 Times in 1,869 Posts
|
|
I agree with the other posters that you got a great deal on your Model 12. Keep one thing in mind here that Winchester will never be able to make them again for anything approaching a reasonable price anymore then Colt or S&W could produce hand assembled and tuned revolvers for a reasonable price. Enjoy your Model 12 as these are great shotguns.
Jim
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-23-2017, 06:40 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Monroe cnty. Ohio
Posts: 6,923
Likes: 4,410
Liked 10,022 Times in 3,676 Posts
|
|
I think you did well on your buy. The price of M12s has been
coming down on good used field guns $350-$400. How ever the
Riot Guns are selling higher, I would say $500 around here. The
long barrel guns 32" are also bringing premium money.
They make good slug guns also. The best pump shotgun that
was ever made. Heavier than new guns, that's because they are
made of all milled steel parts. It is a gun that survives being
passed down through generations.
|
09-23-2017, 07:56 PM
|
Banned
|
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 12,572
Likes: 21,054
Liked 32,463 Times in 7,773 Posts
|
|
I'll add to my earlier comment.
If you plan on keeping the gun, I'd start investing in some of the more inexpensive small parts, before they become expensive small parts in the years to come.
You won't miss a few dollars here and there, and it might benefit you in the long run.
The value of a factory Model 12 riot gun may be location-based. I see people saying they're x-hundreds of dollars where they are, but I know for a fact you can't find one around here for $500, not even a beat up one at a flea market gun show. I know this because I look for the things at every show I attend in this area. I'm still looking.
|
09-23-2017, 07:59 PM
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
|
|
I was sometimes issued one as an Air Force cop in the 1960's. My father had a 3"Magnum Duck Gun. I've handled the repros from Miroku in Japan and been impressed. Both Browning and Winchester have imported these.
If I had the money, I'd buy one of those high grade Japanese repros.
I was also privileged to handle a very ornate Model 12 that belonged to oilman/hunter/Weatherby rifle partner Herb Klein.
I talked with him extensively in his office in the Vaughn Building in Dallas and after his passing, examined his guns, left to the Dallas Museum of Natural History. That was to prepare an article. Alas, the intended editor wasn't interested. But I much enjoyed handling those rifles and shotguns.
Shotgun authority Don Zutz told me that he preferred the Remington M-31,but most agree that the M-12 was an outstanding shotgun.
What you have is an excellent defense shotgun. You'll have to shoot it to see how far out it may pattern well with modern shells with shot collars. I asked Jack O' Conner how far out he felt I could take pheasants and other game birds with a Rem. M-1100 skeet gun. He said maybe to 30 yards, and that he'd killed many more pheasants under 30 yds. than over.
You could kill bunnies in the brush with it. I'd want a longer barrel and more choke for squirrels,but prefer .22's for them, anyway.
You could easily blast a snake that got too close. Hmmm..you could even leave it by your cot in camp and blow away a hyena that entered your tent.
One of the really nice things about it is how the action sounds when cycled. That steel on steel SNICK-SNACK sound is classy, and just cocking the gun will cause most burglars to bolt.
People post here a lot, bragging about gun bargains. You got one of the best I've seen here.
Oh: collectors will cringe, but if you're going to use the gun, a good recoil pad is in order. With slugs or heavy buckshot, it does kick!
Last edited by Texas Star; 09-23-2017 at 08:25 PM.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
09-26-2017, 03:01 AM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: IL
Posts: 1,064
Likes: 1,986
Liked 2,356 Times in 560 Posts
|
|
OP, did you get that from Welcher’s? I looked at 2 of them there last week.
Cory
__________________
Cory
SWCA #3015 SWHF #465
|
09-26-2017, 07:27 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,724
Likes: 1,633
Liked 9,091 Times in 3,362 Posts
|
|
Very nice,,excellent find!
Study the disassembly of the magazine cap & lock assembly before taking it apart to replace the forend wood.You have to remove the band, the lock 'pin' assembly & screws ect.
The forend wood still attached to the slide comes off with the mag tube still inside of it.
Then you need to unscrew the end-cap on the forend with a spanner wrench, remove the endcap and slide the old wood off.
The spanner can be bought from places like Brownells,,or you can make the spanner from a suitable piece of thin walled pipe as I do for the necessary jobs. The 'pipe' style spanners lock in the bench vise and you turn the forend assembly to unscrew the cap.
The spanners are off-set teeth and though they work, I always found them more liable to skip out of the slots on the end cap.
Either works though.
Some wood will interchange w/o any fitting. Sometimes you have to trim it just a bit to be able to re-install the endcap with the spanner to tighten it and get the bbl cut-out on the cap lined up OK.
There's 12ga forend size,,,and then there's a 16/20 size.
If the wood won't slide easily onto the sheetmetal pump slide assembly, you have to enlarge the inside of the forend just a bit. Since it's simply round, a coarse sandpaper on a mandrel using a drill to spin it cuts quickly and cleanly to do the job. Don't over do it and watch that you don't funnel out the ends oversize.
Sometimes it's just plain easier with a small crack or missing piece such as on yours to repair the original if much fitting is demanded by the replacement..
Just some thoughts.
|
09-27-2017, 03:18 PM
|
US Veteran Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 20,362
Likes: 24,260
Liked 16,154 Times in 7,408 Posts
|
|
What;s the barrel length on this particular gun? It looks a bit short in photos.
|
09-27-2017, 04:45 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Sante Fe Trail, Kansas
Posts: 5,350
Likes: 14,441
Liked 6,562 Times in 2,597 Posts
|
|
Ive owned many a Model 12, including a US Army riot,
at the price of plain M-12s you stole it.
I think the FBI, after getting college Basketball fixed, may talk to you.
You did good.
Someone here, if close to your LGS, may want the other one.
|
09-29-2017, 08:28 AM
|
|
Absent Comrade
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Alabama
Posts: 4,091
Likes: 9,379
Liked 12,841 Times in 2,905 Posts
|
|
Nice looking Model 12! I bought a 16 gauge here at a LGS last year for $214.00 out the door. It is in good shape and a perfect match for my 20 gauge that I bought in 1963. I would love to have a 12 gauge and a model 42. The model 42 was the .410 ga model.
Have a blessed day,
Leon
|
|
Thread Tools |
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|