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Old 09-22-2017, 08:31 PM
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Default Winchester Model 12 Riot Gun

Hello all

Just picked this gun up from LGS. I know very little about Model 12s, but thought is was a cool gun, and did a little research before buying.

This one was a Tacoma, PD gun and dates to 1959. There were two on the rack, but this one was in far better condition. The forend is chipped, but I found one on ebay for 40 bucks, so it is on the way.

I got the gun for $249.99 before tax. Don't know if that was a good price, but I saw that the riot length (20") was a bit more difficult to find, so I grabbed it.

How'd I do? Anyone have one of these, or use one in their LEO days?

-lc








Last edited by lowercase; 09-22-2017 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:35 PM
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From a novice; you did great, I had a Mod 12 with 20 inch barrel and had a blast.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:46 PM
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I couldn't tell you what it's worth but a lot of people including myself think that the 12 is the best pump shotgun ever made. I'd have paid $250 in a heartbeat.
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Old 09-22-2017, 08:54 PM
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Looks like you got a good deal and they are great shotguns!
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:03 PM
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A LGS has one in better condition for $750.00!
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Old 09-22-2017, 09:24 PM
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The ultimate irony!! Stealing former police property!!!!

Ya' done good!
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Old 09-23-2017, 08:37 AM
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Over my LEO career I was issued Winchesters Models 97, 10 and 12, Ithaca Model 37s, Remington Models 870 and 1100, and finally Mossberg Model 590. The Winchesters and Ithaca were responsible for many ADs as they did not have automatic disconnects and could be "Slam Fired"
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:51 AM
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After thievery like that I hope you can sleep well tonight.
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj View Post
Over my LEO career I was issued Winchesters Models 97, 10 and 12, Ithaca Model 37s, Remington Models 870 and 1100, and finally Mossberg Model 590. The Winchesters and Ithaca were responsible for many ADs as they did not have automatic disconnects and could be "Slam Fired"
I suggest the operators were responsible for the Negligent Discharges (ADs), not the firearm.

OP, I own a couple of Model 12s and lust for an Ithaca 37. You did very good with your purchase
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:10 AM
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You got a 58-year-old shotgun that will last another 58 years for only $250?!? That's simply outstanding, period.

Around here, I haven't seen a Model 12 factory riot gun sell for that price since the early 90s. I bought one in 1990-something for $300 and thought I got a bargain. I actually did get a bargain, because I couldn't buy one like that around here for twice that price...and that's if I could find one.

There's one for sale now at an LGS for $850...and the serial numbers don't even match! And as far as I can tell, it's the only one in town for sale.

I'm a big Model 12 fan. My thinking is that they weren't called "The Perfect Repeater" for nothing.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:20 AM
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You stole it at that price- congrats! Love the classic Model 12 in any configuration!
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:32 AM
Glashaus Glashaus is offline
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I would make sure that I go back to that LGS, either they are really hard up for sales or they have no idea how to price firearms, also they must not have internet to look up prices, you sir got a great deal!
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:58 AM
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I've got my grandfather's old Model 12, with a barrel long enough to reach into the next county. I'd love a 20" riot model.
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Old 09-23-2017, 11:02 AM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
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I'd go back and get the other one too. If not in ad good of shape maybe you could get it for $200
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:46 PM
Richard Simmons Richard Simmons is offline
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Congrats to the OP. Was looking at one myself but it's an odd duck. It's got the U.S. Stamp and flaming bomb on the receiver with a 20" vent rib barrel with cutts compensator. Pretty sure the military used some models for aerial training that had standard length barrels and maybe a cutts installed but a vent rib at 20"?
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Simmons View Post
Congrats to the OP. Was looking at one myself but it's an odd duck. It's got the U.S. Stamp and flaming bomb on the receiver with a 20" vent rib barrel with cutts compensator. Pretty sure the military used some models for aerial training that had standard length barrels and maybe a cutts installed...
To the best of my knowledge, the most frequently used shotgun with long barrels and compensators was the Remington Model 11. Semi-autos were much better suited for aerial gunnery training than pump shotguns.

Here's a photo of a Model 11 set up for gunnery training.

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Old 09-23-2017, 01:52 PM
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As you can see from the above posts, you got a deal. I would have bought them both in a minute. However I got mine cheaper, $55.00 in Montgomery Wards in 1954. It is flaming bomb and U.S. marked and has been seriously bubbed up. I've hunted with it all my life.

You couldn't find a better home defense shotgun, especially for the price.

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Old 09-23-2017, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wundudnee View Post
As you can see from the above posts, you got a deal. I would have bought them both in a minute. However I got mine cheaper, $55.00 in Montgomery Wards in 1954. It is flaming bomb and U.S. marked and has been seriously bubbed up. I've hunted with it all my life.

You couldn't find a better home defense shotgun, especially for the price.

Not being funny here...I'm not familiar with the term "bubbed up". What does that mean?

Have you done a serial number search to see when your gun was made? It almost has to be from 1941-1944...possibly 1945, but I kinda doubt it. At least the receiver does. Do the serial numbers on the receiver and the barrel assembly match? Just curious.
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:39 PM
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I agree with the other posters that you got a great deal on your Model 12. Keep one thing in mind here that Winchester will never be able to make them again for anything approaching a reasonable price anymore then Colt or S&W could produce hand assembled and tuned revolvers for a reasonable price. Enjoy your Model 12 as these are great shotguns.
Jim
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Old 09-23-2017, 06:40 PM
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I think you did well on your buy. The price of M12s has been
coming down on good used field guns $350-$400. How ever the
Riot Guns are selling higher, I would say $500 around here. The
long barrel guns 32" are also bringing premium money.
They make good slug guns also. The best pump shotgun that
was ever made. Heavier than new guns, that's because they are
made of all milled steel parts. It is a gun that survives being
passed down through generations.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:56 PM
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I'll add to my earlier comment.

If you plan on keeping the gun, I'd start investing in some of the more inexpensive small parts, before they become expensive small parts in the years to come.

You won't miss a few dollars here and there, and it might benefit you in the long run.

The value of a factory Model 12 riot gun may be location-based. I see people saying they're x-hundreds of dollars where they are, but I know for a fact you can't find one around here for $500, not even a beat up one at a flea market gun show. I know this because I look for the things at every show I attend in this area. I'm still looking.
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Old 09-23-2017, 07:59 PM
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I was sometimes issued one as an Air Force cop in the 1960's. My father had a 3"Magnum Duck Gun. I've handled the repros from Miroku in Japan and been impressed. Both Browning and Winchester have imported these.

If I had the money, I'd buy one of those high grade Japanese repros.

I was also privileged to handle a very ornate Model 12 that belonged to oilman/hunter/Weatherby rifle partner Herb Klein.
I talked with him extensively in his office in the Vaughn Building in Dallas and after his passing, examined his guns, left to the Dallas Museum of Natural History. That was to prepare an article. Alas, the intended editor wasn't interested. But I much enjoyed handling those rifles and shotguns.

Shotgun authority Don Zutz told me that he preferred the Remington M-31,but most agree that the M-12 was an outstanding shotgun.

What you have is an excellent defense shotgun. You'll have to shoot it to see how far out it may pattern well with modern shells with shot collars. I asked Jack O' Conner how far out he felt I could take pheasants and other game birds with a Rem. M-1100 skeet gun. He said maybe to 30 yards, and that he'd killed many more pheasants under 30 yds. than over.

You could kill bunnies in the brush with it. I'd want a longer barrel and more choke for squirrels,but prefer .22's for them, anyway.

You could easily blast a snake that got too close. Hmmm..you could even leave it by your cot in camp and blow away a hyena that entered your tent.

One of the really nice things about it is how the action sounds when cycled. That steel on steel SNICK-SNACK sound is classy, and just cocking the gun will cause most burglars to bolt.

People post here a lot, bragging about gun bargains. You got one of the best I've seen here.

Oh: collectors will cringe, but if you're going to use the gun, a good recoil pad is in order. With slugs or heavy buckshot, it does kick!

Last edited by Texas Star; 09-23-2017 at 08:25 PM.
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Old 09-26-2017, 03:01 AM
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OP, did you get that from Welcher’s? I looked at 2 of them there last week.

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Old 09-26-2017, 07:27 AM
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Very nice,,excellent find!

Study the disassembly of the magazine cap & lock assembly before taking it apart to replace the forend wood.You have to remove the band, the lock 'pin' assembly & screws ect.
The forend wood still attached to the slide comes off with the mag tube still inside of it.
Then you need to unscrew the end-cap on the forend with a spanner wrench, remove the endcap and slide the old wood off.
The spanner can be bought from places like Brownells,,or you can make the spanner from a suitable piece of thin walled pipe as I do for the necessary jobs. The 'pipe' style spanners lock in the bench vise and you turn the forend assembly to unscrew the cap.
The spanners are off-set teeth and though they work, I always found them more liable to skip out of the slots on the end cap.
Either works though.

Some wood will interchange w/o any fitting. Sometimes you have to trim it just a bit to be able to re-install the endcap with the spanner to tighten it and get the bbl cut-out on the cap lined up OK.

There's 12ga forend size,,,and then there's a 16/20 size.

If the wood won't slide easily onto the sheetmetal pump slide assembly, you have to enlarge the inside of the forend just a bit. Since it's simply round, a coarse sandpaper on a mandrel using a drill to spin it cuts quickly and cleanly to do the job. Don't over do it and watch that you don't funnel out the ends oversize.

Sometimes it's just plain easier with a small crack or missing piece such as on yours to repair the original if much fitting is demanded by the replacement..

Just some thoughts.
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Old 09-27-2017, 03:18 PM
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What;s the barrel length on this particular gun? It looks a bit short in photos.
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Old 09-27-2017, 04:45 PM
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Ive owned many a Model 12, including a US Army riot,

at the price of plain M-12s you stole it.

I think the FBI, after getting college Basketball fixed, may talk to you.

You did good.

Someone here, if close to your LGS, may want the other one.
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Old 09-29-2017, 08:28 AM
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Nice looking Model 12! I bought a 16 gauge here at a LGS last year for $214.00 out the door. It is in good shape and a perfect match for my 20 gauge that I bought in 1963. I would love to have a 12 gauge and a model 42. The model 42 was the .410 ga model.

Have a blessed day,

Leon
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