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Old 10-03-2017, 03:55 PM
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Question AK-47

Hello to all.
I am new to the civilian version of the AK-47. Back in NY where I'm from originally, I used to hear some of the club members talking about Century Arms AK's. One in particular is the one I will link below. (CENTURY ARMS GP WASR-10 BLACK / WOOD 7.62X39MM 16.25-INCH 30 ROUNDS)
I was given 4 days off of work after working almost 4.5 weeks of 7/12's. I am visiting my uncle and he wants an AK-47. Anything below $600 is ok with him. ALL advice is GREATLY appreciated!


Century Arms GP WASR-10 Black / Wood 7.62x39mm 16.25-inch 30 Rounds
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Old 10-03-2017, 04:01 PM
Bodie57 Bodie57 is offline
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The WASR is good. Avoid any made in USA AK's. Especially RAS47 and IO. They use cast bolts and trunions. Not good
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Old 10-03-2017, 06:05 PM
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WASR quality has improved recently, they are decent entry level AK's at the moment. On the other hand, a WASR still would not be my first choice- that would be a Serbian Yugo NPAP or if still available OPAP. Admittedly I'm a bit of an AK snob when it comes to former Combloc production AK's meaning I prefer most anything to Romanian production AK's. Yugo's, Bulgarian, and Polish AK's are excellent but the Yugo NPAP will best fit your price range. As stated earlier resist the temptation to buy a Century- especially a RAS-47. Sames goes for anything I/O- stay away.

There are lots of so-so to not so great American production AK's popping up everywhere including at Palmetto State Armory. Do yourself a favor and for your first AK get a real former Combloc production AK, even if that means a WASR. Start with an AK with a genuine pedigree and chances are you will really gain an appreciation for the platform.

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Old 10-03-2017, 07:38 PM
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WASR quality has improved recently, they are decent entry level AK's at the moment. On the other hand, a WASR still would not be my first choice- that would be a Serbian Yugo NPAP or if still available OPAP. Admittedly I'm a bit of an AK snob when it comes to former Combloc production AK's meaning I prefer most anything to Romanian production AK's. Yugo's, Bulgarian, and Polish AK's are excellent but the Yugo NPAP will best fit your price range. As stated earlier resist the temptation to buy a Century- especially a RAS-47. Sames goes for anything I/O- stay away.

There are lots of so-so to not so great American production AK's popping up everywhere including at Palmetto State Armory. Do yourself a favor and for your first AK get a real former Combloc production AK, even if that means a WASR. Start with an AK with a genuine pedigree and chances are you will really gain an appreciation for the platform.
I don't want the AK. My uncle does.
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Old 10-03-2017, 07:44 PM
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Under $600 is not much options now days. WASR is alright. 99% of US made AKs are junk unless your uncle only wants to pop off a few rounds every now and then. Check out the Serbian Npap. It's in that price range but they don't have chrome barrels (never did. Yugoslavia never utilized chrome) which isn't a problem unless he's shooting a lot of surplus ammo.

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Old 10-03-2017, 08:06 PM
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Under $600 is not much options now days. WASR is alright. 99% of US made AKs are junk unless your uncle only wants to pop off a few rounds every now and then. Check out the Serbian Npap. It's in that price range but they don't have chrome barrels (never did. Yugoslavia never utilized chrome) which isn't a problem unless he's shooting a lot of surplus ammo.

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Hello Arik. You seem to be a person that knows a wealth about firearms. I see your name a lot throughout the website. I think you're a great asset to this website.
Do you know much about civilian AK's? My uncle only wants to put holes in paper targets and shoot trash on his property. He has a few old junk cars and trucks that he likes to shoot at. Oh,
and an old dryer too.
Under $600 is all he can afford. After looking at AK's online myself, I'm sure there is something you can recommend. Thanks Arik.
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Old 10-03-2017, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by HelpingHarvey View Post
Hello Arik. You seem to be a person that knows a wealth about firearms. I see your name a lot throughout the website. I think you're a great asset to this website.
Do you know much about civilian AK's? My uncle only wants to put holes in paper targets and shoot trash on his property. He has a few old junk cars and trucks that he likes to shoot at. Oh,
and an old dryer too.
Under $600 is all he can afford. After looking at AK's online myself, I'm sure there is something you can recommend. Thanks Arik.
Thanks but I just have lots of down time at work! Plenty of much more knowledgeable peeps around here!

I do however know AKs.

IF your uncle doesn't plan on selling and only shoots a box of ammo every so often then American made AK SHOULD serve him fine. Lots of corners are cut for higher profits and to sell to a wider audience. Many start showing signs of early wear and breakage within the first 2000 - 5000 rounds. Doesn't mean they all will but it's not uncommon. Resale isn't great.

A WASR is a basic AKM built on the same line and using the same materials as the military rifles. It has certain idiosyncrasies. The front sight can be canted and the sight post would need to be adjusted accordingly. Sometimes mags are a little loose or little tight it is ONLY a problem if there are feeding issues. The reason is be because partially the mags are all slightly different and some heavily used and because the rifle is imported as a single stack (922r laws) and the opened wider to accept double stack mags here in the states. The Npap will be about the same.



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Old 10-03-2017, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arik View Post
Thanks but I just have lots of down time at work! Plenty of much more knowledgeable peeps around here!

I do however know AKs.

IF your uncle doesn't plan on selling and only shoots a box of ammo every so often then American made AK SHOULD serve him fine. Lots of corners are cut for higher profits and to sell to a wider audience. Many start showing signs of early wear and breakage within the first 2000 - 5000 rounds. Doesn't mean they all will but it's not uncommon. Resale isn't great.

A WASR is a basic AKM built on the same line and using the same materials as the military rifles. It has certain idiosyncrasies. The front sight can be canted and the sight post would need to be adjusted accordingly. Sometimes mags are a little loose or little tight it is ONLY a problem if there are feeding issues. The reason is be because partially the mags are all slightly different and some heavily used and because the rifle is imported as a single stack (922r laws) and the opened wider to accept double stack mags here in the states. The Npap will be about the same.



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Arik, I set my uncle up watching videos of both rifles. He prefers the WASR over the American made AK. Grab A Gun has the best deal on the WASR. He is ordering his AK and I'm ordering my Sport II from there as well.
Arik, thank you very much for your input. They should make you a MODERATOR.
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Old 10-03-2017, 10:35 PM
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Lol your welcome!

If he's definitely going to be getting one I'd recommend jumping on ammo now! Obvious reasons

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Old 10-03-2017, 11:57 PM
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Watch out for kit built AK's. They can be a real problem. A lot of kits were sold and a lot of people tried building them that didn't know what they were doing. I know something about it. I owned one of those. I didn't own it long. I sold it cheap with the full story told to the buyer.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:47 AM
amazingflapjack amazingflapjack is offline
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Yugo m-70 is as close to a Russian that can be had-is what I hear.
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Old 10-04-2017, 12:49 AM
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I bought my Norinco Mak-90 Sporter in 7.62x39mm for $240 back in 1994. Great investment and fun to shoot. Good luck.





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Old 10-04-2017, 05:30 AM
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+1 for any of the Norinco's. I have a machined receiver model and have owned 7 others in the past. The sheet metal versions are good also. The sheet metal is thicker than most use.
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Old 10-04-2017, 08:09 AM
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Yugo m-70 is as close to a Russian that can be had-is what I hear.
Neh Yugoslavia went their own way. The two are not interchangeable except for a few small parts (not counting mags. 7.62 mags are interchangeable regardless of country). Romanian are more or less but what you're thinking of is Bulgarian. Traditional Bulgarian AKM and AK74 are direct copies and often were simply Russian rifles that were bought by the Bulgarian gov. They have some new stuff where they went their own way on certain things but even then the basic rifle is still just a Russian copy.

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I bought my Norinco Mak-90 Sporter in 7.62x39mm for $240 back in 1994. Great investment and fun to shoot. Good luck.





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+1 for any of the Norinco's. I have a machined receiver model and have owned 7 others in the past. The sheet metal versions are good also. The sheet metal is thicker than most use.
Unfortunately those guns in the $1k range now.

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Old 10-05-2017, 08:51 AM
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So what I'm hearing is that my C39v2 is ****......
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Old 10-05-2017, 09:16 AM
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So what I'm hearing is that my C39v2 is ****......
Yea kinda. Sorry. They do function just not very durable. Has a lot to do with Century's continued desire to cut corners to save pennies, including to make proprietary parts. There have been a few documented going 50k rounds but far more have had serious premature wear and breakage at around the 5k round mark.

No offense to anyone here but Century knows it's US customers. The look always trumps function. If the finish looks nice and everything looks perfect no one cares that the poorly cast parts in places where they should not be cast..... break!

What are they going for now? $750ish? A Arsenal SAM7 is around $1300. Price difference is not so great considering quality is night and day.

Having said that, if you don't shoot it much it doesn't matter. If it takes you 5 years to shoot 500 rounds you'll likely never see a problem

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Old 10-05-2017, 04:47 PM
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WASR was a good choice for your uncle. I've had mine for about two years. The wood in the buttstock and handguards is a little soft, but can be changed out easily if that bothers him now or in the future.
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Old 10-06-2017, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoo2tr View Post
WASR quality has improved recently, they are decent entry level AK's at the moment. On the other hand, a WASR still would not be my first choice- that would be a Serbian Yugo NPAP or if still available OPAP. Admittedly I'm a bit of an AK snob when it comes to former Combloc production AK's meaning I prefer most anything to Romanian production AK's. Yugo's, Bulgarian, and Polish AK's are excellent but the Yugo NPAP will best fit your price range. As stated earlier resist the temptation to buy a Century- especially a RAS-47. Sames goes for anything I/O- stay away.

There are lots of so-so to not so great American production AK's popping up everywhere including at Palmetto State Armory. Do yourself a favor and for your first AK get a real former Combloc production AK, even if that means a WASR. Start with an AK with a genuine pedigree and chances are you will really gain an appreciation for the platform.
Npap is above wasr in fit and finish but below wasr in quality of parts used. Wasr is hands down best new AK one can buy under $800.

I have 800 rounds through my wasr and if you disassemble it, you would think I didn't even put one mag through it. Everything looks new still.

I currently have the following:

-Npap DF
-Mak 90 UF
-Wasr 10
-Arsenal Sam7uf

The wasr is ranked last of those in terms of beauty, but if I could only keep one it would easily be the wasr. I have had zero malfunctions with many different brands of cheap steel cased ammunition. The Mak 90 would be my second choice

In all reality, the OP needs to stay away from any "made in America" ak and he will be fine. My recommendation would be to purchase a Wasr 10 if his uncle wants new, then dump the soft wood furniture Century puts on them and add a surplus set for $30-40. Then he will have a rifle under $700 that will easily last 30,000+ rounds
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Old 10-06-2017, 09:03 AM
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So what I'm hearing is that my C39v2 is ****......
No joke there are hundreds of threads on this if not thousands. Did you do any research before you purchased it? I'm not saying watching people like Yeager who get free stuff for giving good reviews.

Century wins in the fit and finish department, but they use many cast parts and their heat treating is sub-par. AKOU is testing the C39V2 right now and after 600 rounds the internals looked worse than the Wasr did after 10,000 rounds.

So many people think any milled AK is superior to a stamped AK, but the truth is a properly heat-treated stamped receiver will outlast an improperly heat-treated milled receiver any day
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Old 10-06-2017, 10:42 AM
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The Chinese Norinco guns are quality firearms. These are a good choice for a AK47. The next choice is a brand new Russian Izmash Saiga AK/AKM sporter. She a true Russian rifle not a knockoff. There very accurate. The Russians at Izmash did admit their saiga is a tad more accurate in the American calibers of 223/308 over the Russian calibers. For an accurate rifle in 7.62x39 the Chinese norinco sks is hard to beat accuracy wise.

I never wanted a AR-15 nor a AK-47 too expensive but when I was on the way to buy a m1a at my LGS. He had a gun rack full of the new Russian Izmash saiga sporters in 308win with 16" barrels with a extra magazine for $289/$307 otd. Forget the over priced m1a. I went back to get another for the kid and the rack was empty and filled with the saiga in 223 with a 16" barrel for $259. I was never fond of the 223 round but for the low cost of the rifle I got into it cheap. With the norinco and Russian import stopping these can still be found.

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Old 10-06-2017, 12:12 PM
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I have both a Yugo M70 and M72 made By CIA. I'VE had them over 10 yearend put thousands of rounds thru them with out a single problem. The only thing you have to watch out for is a canted front sight. I was able to hand pick mine. However I wouldn't buy one unless I could see it first hand to check it out.
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Old 10-06-2017, 12:27 PM
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I have both a Yugo M70 and M72 made By CIA. I'VE had them over 10 yearend put thousands of rounds thru them with out a single problem. The only thing you have to watch out for is a canted front sight. I was able to hand pick mine. However I wouldn't buy one unless I could see it first hand to check it out.
Different rifles entirely. Back then there were still complete parts kits. Today parts kits mainly contain odds and ends

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Old 10-06-2017, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brasky View Post
No joke there are hundreds of threads on this if not thousands. Did you do any research before you purchased it? I'm not saying watching people like Yeager who get free stuff for giving good reviews.

Century wins in the fit and finish department, but they use many cast parts and their heat treating is sub-par. AKOU is testing the C39V2 right now and after 600 rounds the internals looked worse than the Wasr did after 10,000 rounds.

So many people think any milled AK is superior to a stamped AK, but the truth is a properly heat-treated stamped receiver will outlast an improperly heat-treated milled receiver any day
SO what can I do about it. Can I change out the bolt to a more durable one
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Old 10-07-2017, 12:42 AM
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I have 3 AKs that were built from kits Two are AMD 65s and the other one is a Yugo. All three were built by a gunsmith here in Arizona named Chris Horn who had a well founded reputation for building them right. All three of mine are reliable and a joy to shoot. Unfortunately I don't believe Chris Horn is still in business. This of course was several years ago and I doubt that I had much over $300 in any of them at the time.
Jim
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Old 10-07-2017, 06:01 PM
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I have a WASR, and love it!
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Old 10-07-2017, 07:30 PM
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$600 isn't bad for a WASR. Look on the trunnion for the year it was made. They really improved them starting in 2014.

I have 3 - a WASR 10, a MAK-90, and a Bulgarian AK-74 kit build. I need to update these photos. I put Russian laminate furniture on the WASR, and I am having an original hooded front sight and underfolder spike bayonet put on the MAK-90.





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Old 10-09-2017, 02:56 PM
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SO what can I do about it. Can I change out the bolt to a more durable one
Sell it and buy a wasr
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Old 10-09-2017, 11:16 PM
Muley Gil Muley Gil is offline
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I have 3 AKs that were built from kits Two are AMD 65s and the other one is a Yugo. All three were built by a gunsmith here in Arizona named Chris Horn who had a well founded reputation for building them right. All three of mine are reliable and a joy to shoot. Unfortunately I don't believe Chris Horn is still in business. This of course was several years ago and I doubt that I had much over $300 in any of them at the time.
Jim
I once had 150 AMD 65s and 750,000 rounds of ammo to feed them.

Of course, I was in charge of training at a Afghanistan regional police academy at the time.
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