I have my shotgun. Now, what ammunition?

[Naphtali]

Moderator: If you think this query is in the wrong subforum, please put it where it belongs.
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I recently bought an IAC Model 97 shotgun - that is, a reproduction of a Winchester Model 1897 12 gauge, 2.75-inch pump action shotgun. Having bought it for self defense and vermin control on my property and surrounding meadow, a problem has arisen that I didn't consider when I bought the shotgun.

I haven't fired a shotgun in 45 years. I have no idea what factory 12 gauge, 2.75-inch ammunition I should obtain. I'm not planning to use this pump action shotgun with its 20-inch barrel for sporting purposes - no bird hunting, no cowboy action competition. I ask for assistance to identify self defense ammunition for: Violent anti-social people; large predators and omnivores which have lost fear of human presence; and smaller nuisance predators and herbivores such as coyotes, crows, skunks, et al. I do not intend to buy massive quantities of each ammunition recommended. I'll pick up a few hundred rounds and combine familiarity practice with verifying the shotgun functions properly. Following the break-in period, I would buy a couple of hundred rounds of each ammunition. I'm anticipating that "each ammunition" would be no more than four or five distinct loadings.

Okay, what ammunition?

[NYlakesider]

I have a 9 shot Mossie and I load it to first fire 5 rounds of 00 buck and then 4 slugs. I live quite rural and might have to defend against 2 and 4 legged predators (up to and including bears!) I also have a gun belt loaded with more buck and slug rounds close to the gun.

I fell very well protected with that combo of course there are a couple handguns close by also!

Be advised buckshot kicks more than conventional shot rounds and slugs kick even more than Buck.

[bigwheelzip]

Seeing your Montana locale, I'd assume that you won't be concerned with neighbors in range, then slugs or 00 Buck. The Buck from Federal with the FliteControl wad extends a tight pattern nicely.

[mgriffin]

Originally Posted by bigwheelzip

Seeing your Montana locale, I'd assume that you won't be concerned with neighbors in range, then slugs or 00 Buck. The Buck from Federal with the FliteControl wad extends a tight pattern nicely.

I use Federal FliteControl 00 buck in my Beretta 1301 Tactical. It has an 18" barrel and at 15 yards it still holds a pattern about the size of my fist.

[kraynky]

I agree with buck shot, anything 00 to four 0000 should do. See what patterns best at anticipated range and stock up. Some say #7 -#8 shot for indoors close range. Which really makes a lot of sense, since the range will be close, a lot less over penetration.

How about a photo of that shotgun? I think I'd like to pick one up. My Mossberg 500 has been standing guard for close to 30 years now, it needs company.

[Fred_G]

Another vote for 00 Flite Control. Or #1 buckshot. I would not mess with trying to load it with different ammo, unless you are hunting. Buckshot should take care of most 2 or 4 legged varmints. Might be overkill for skunks and such, but will do the job.

[MylesTN]

I understand #1 buck is probably best indoors; 00 or 000 and slugs outside.

[RV4driver]

Buck and slugs will penetrate numerous walls inside. Birdshot not so much. Outside, slugs will pack more punch at greater distances, as birdshot will disperse dramatically depending on the choke, if any.
You thought this would be easy, didn't you?!

For bear, I'd think slug. Skunks, etc., maybe buck. And distance, yeah, with skunks...distance.

[Ivan the Butcher]

All the recommendations for Buckshot and slugs are great for repelling Sasquatch and robbers hellbent on mayhem in your home. But for blasting vermin around the farmyard, $1-1.50 a round ammo is not necessary or for many applications, it is absolutely wrong! For rat sized problems at less than 30 yards (even 35 yards), I would recommend 7.5 shot Handy-cap Trap loads (1 1/8 ounce). This is good for raccoons in the gutters (second story), if the gutter means anything to you, just point about 4 inches above their heads and away from the gutter!

For most medium 4 legged problems (Like fox, coyote, and big rodents) I
would say #4 birdshot, Field or Express loads at the same distances.

If you gun has the choke of Skeet or Improved Cylinder (and sometimes no choke at all) you can engage small and medium wildlife problems out to 50 yards with Goose loads. My similar guns have no choke so Steel shot is no problem. I use #2 on many problems with pretty good success. Most waterfowl loads are engineered to spread as little as you gun can allow (that has to do with the way the shot is buffered, and the type of wad used). 2.75" shells in steel will cost a lot more that target or express loads, but nowhere like Buckshot or slugs!

The Target ammo is good for practice and sport shooting but won't prepare you for the recoil of the higher performance shells.

Ivan

[tops]

Originally Posted by Naphtali

Violent anti-social people; large predators and omnivores which have lost fear of human presence; and smaller nuisance predators and herbivores such as coyotes, crows, skunks,

Okay, what ammunition?
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00 Buck will kill them all including mice and starlings. Larry

[bushmaster1313]

Fiocchi 12LE00BK



Reduced recoil
works fine
very inexpensive

[rburg]

My first suggestion is for the OP here go to the friendly local walmart and buy a few boxes of target grade ammo. Then maybe a box of each OO and slugs. Some of them only seem to come in 5 shot boxes, so more than one of those. Then he needs to shoot the gun to see how much he really likes recoil.

As he goes along, he's going to need to test some goose loads, like #2 and maybe even in short magnums. Keep in mind you can get a slip on recoil pad...

[shouldazagged]

I've long thought that #4 buck is a versatile choice. It's what I load in my old Stevens side-by-side.

[vipermd]

If you want a single load to do it all, 00 buck is about the best you can get. Works on 2 legged predators and most 4 legged also. For small vermin # 6/7 will work just fine depending on the range. I would pick up a box of slugs, 9 pellet 00 buck, # 4 buck, #6, #7-7.5 and try them all at ranges you expect to use them. I have all listed above, plus others, different needs, distances, critters!! Try them all and find what works best for you. Be Safe,

[Rpg]

OO buck is poor bear medicine. Those in the know use slugs in a 12 ga as bear protection

For smaller predators, #4 buck can be useful, as can #2 shot (lead shot, nothing else: you’re not hunting migratory waterfowl).

You won’t need much ammo for these: 50 rounds each will last a very long time.

Lots of trap loads and some #5 shot for hunting flushing birds.

[amazingflapjack]

00 is definitely always a good defensive choice-but I read about Chief Watson (Patches) who walked point for his Seal Team in the Delta. They liked #4-27 25 caliber pellets. It pretty much covers the water IYGMD.

[ExcitableBoy]

It all depends on the range and the varmint:

--- Slugs and 00 Buck for bear and for distances greater than 35 yds on coyote, cougar, etc.
--- #4 Buck up to 35 yds on coyote, raccoon, opossum and two-legged vermin.
--- BB, #2, #4 for a punch of more pellets from 5-20 yds on smaller pests.

This year has been un-Godly with the number of raccoon and opossum here, and I've dispatched at least a dozen of each around my buildings in the last three months. I had been using 12 ga. #4 Buck in an 870 with a Streamlight. Deadly, but the balls skipping off the ground were raising Cain with the siding on the pole barns! (You usually get only one shot at the critters, and I hate to let 'em get away scot-free, so I've patched a few holes here and there. ) I rummaged through my stash of 12 ga. shells and found an old box of Federal #4 steel shot duck loads. The last five opossum expired instantaneously at 15-20 yds, and a sixth, just two nights ago, had to be kicked off the porch, literally, and bit it at 5 yds.

So, I've switched to lighter loads for shorter distances and leave the heavy stuff for longer ranges and larger vermin.

Just relating a lot of personal experience. Hope this helps you in your choices.

[FLAPJACK: Just an aside for you. Jim Watson, and most of the SEALS toting shotguns, used an Ithaca 37 with a duckbill attached to the muzzle for a WIDE horizontal spread. Quite effective, but the duckbill "choke" tended to have a fairly short life span.]

[Truckin]

90% or the time I use #4 shot but I have 00 and slug close by. Coyotes will go down with #4. 5 years ago we bought an abandon farm and I have dispatched more undesirables than any other time in my life. But the number 1 mandatory accessory is a weapon mounted light, mine is a stream light TLR-1 HL amounted on a retired Ohio Highway Patrol 870.

[BearBio]

Originally Posted by amazingflapjack

00 is definitely always a good defensive choice-but I read about Chief Watson (Patches) who walked point for his Seal Team in the Delta. They liked #4-27 25 caliber pellets. It pretty much covers the water IYGMD.

During my military time, I "worked" (talked) to a lot of "elite" Army personnel. All were Southeast Asia vets. Choice, by far, of most for shotguns was #4 buck. You might load a slug in case of a surprise bear encounter. However, that kid in Alaska recently killed a "charging" (lol) bear with birdshot.

[American1776]

For home defense, 00 buck shot is hard to beat (9 pellets of caliber 9mm, going at nearly magnum velocities).

I can also recommend number 4 buckshot.

Don't bother with 3 inch shells.

[rburg]

Originally Posted by BearBio

that kid in Alaska recently killed a "charging" (lol) bear with birdshot.

We hear a lot of repeat comments about bird shot. At very close distances it acts as a solid. Try it sometime on an old solid door. One hole, sometimes not so big even. I agree that at longer distances it lacks the cohesiveness needed for bigger critters. The advantage of lighter recoiling loads is that you might get a second shot in. Surely not a third, Yogi and his family tend to move at a pretty good clip, right at you.

[chief38]

For home defense I use #4 Buck. It has more pellets than 00 (but smaller in diameter) and will penetrate a little less presumably (which is a concern inside). Still, the #4 buck will do anything necessary to 2 legged animals within the confines of a home and is still devastating. Some use #1 buck - and that will act more towards the 00 buck performance.

At normal HD distances, we're really splitting hairs here as any 2 3/4" Buck Shot load would work just fine - I just try to fine tune. I do NOT use Magnums for HD.

[Naphtali]

For my purposes I'm sensing consensus favoring #4 buck and about #6 cartridges with the Federal buckshot load being perhaps replacement for standard #4 buck.

Questions that makes sense to ask although those who know answers may find it amusing. Are specialty shotshells available that mix buckshot and smaller standard shot available? If they are, which, if any, provide a single cartridge solution for me?

[jimmyj]

2 3/4" #4 Buckshot

[bigwheelzip]

Originally Posted by Naphtali

... large predators and omnivores

Originally Posted by Naphtali

For my purposes I'm sensing consensus favoring #4 buck .....

#4 may be fine for most things on your list, but I'd at least keep a sleeve of slugs on your stock for those large predatory omnivores.

[BearBio]

Originally Posted by rburg

We hear a lot of repeat comments about bird shot. At very close distances it acts as a solid. Try it sometime on an old solid door. One hole, sometimes not so big even. I agree that at longer distances it lacks the cohesiveness needed for bigger critters. The advantage of lighter recoiling loads is that you might get a second shot in. Surely not a third, Yogi and his family tend to move at a pretty good clip, right at you.

Capstick talked about killing a charging lion with a load of birdshot at VERY close range=basically decapitated the cat.

[Zoner]

i live in the city so the "varmints" i'm concerned about are the two-legged variety. That being said i keep 00 buck in my Mossberg. The longest shot in my house is about 30 feet so i have tested my shottie and loads at that distance at the range. 00 buck patterns about the size of a softball. No pistol grips....my gun wears wood furniture. The 18 1/2" barrel wears a Marbles tritium bead and a mag tube mounted laser zeroed at 30 feet. I keep 5 in the mag tube,chamber empty. To get into action i need to shuck in a round and simultaniously bump on the laser with my left thumb,left hand on the forend. The sound of the pump chambering a live round and the little light coming on will send most bad guys running and the ones that wouldn't run i might as well shoot....they are dumb as rocks

[Zoner]

here's my shotgun. I have changed out the syn furniture and PG to factory wood. The finish is battleship gray cerakote

[SC_Mike]

Something in the range of #4 Buck to BBs.

[ExcitableBoy]

Originally Posted by Naphtali

For my purposes I'm sensing consensus favoring #4 buck and about #6 cartridges with the Federal buckshot load being perhaps replacement for standard #4 buck.

Questions that makes sense to ask although those who know answers may find it amusing. Are specialty shotshells available that mix buckshot and smaller standard shot available? If they are, which, if any, provide a single cartridge solution for me?

There are slug and buckshot combo shells available... three 00 Buck behind a slug, I believe. Never used them, though. Otherwise, mixing the shot size per shell would pretty much be a home-brew reload. #4 Buck and BB would be quite interesting at 30-45 yds.

[peterGun]

#6 1-1/4oz, #4 and 00 buck, slugger and Brenneke clasic magnums. That’s my survival or general use 12 gauge ammo. Turkey loads and sabot slugs Are specialty loads.


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[model70hunter]

Slugs and double 00 can pent rate walls.

I've seen what number 4 buck can do to a person. It leaves them dead.

I bought a box of 25 in #4 buck and that is what I keep in my Win riot and Ithaca M37 riot.

I see you are not close to other houses. Double 00 would work. Remember the pattern does not open up immediately, one must aim up close.

[nachogrande]

#4 buck will handle most problems. Anything too big for the #4, go right to slugs. For rats/snakes & smaller stuff, a field load of #6's won't break the bank. Being able to hit your target matters more than the shot size IMO. Practice & pattern whichever you choose.

[BearBio]

Originally Posted by ExcitableBoy

There are slug and buckshot combo shells available... three 00 Buck behind a slug, I believe. Never used them, though. Otherwise, mixing the shot size per shell would pretty much be a home-brew reload. #4 Buck and BB would be quite interesting at 30-45 yds.

For a while, at least, there were turkey loads that had 2 size shot mixed. Usually a large size bird shot==maybe also some goose loads.