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  #1  
Old 10-14-2017, 11:04 PM
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Default My first vest pocket gun

Couldn’t pass up a early 1920’s German made Ortgies pocket gun in .25acp for a small price. Interesting little gun that are supposed to be surprisingly accurate. Also made in the more commonly found .32acp.




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Old 10-14-2017, 11:13 PM
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Congrats, on your Ortgies .25 acp.
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Last edited by MCorps0311; 10-14-2017 at 11:14 PM.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:49 PM
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That pistol is screaming for some penetrating oil. Nice gun.
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Old 10-14-2017, 11:55 PM
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My first vest gun is now in a ziplock bag. I fired four rounds of .25 acp through it and the barrel blew off. I was gutted

Was a Walther Model 5, here's a stock picture.

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Old 10-15-2017, 01:56 AM
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That's a 5th variation/4th address type to collectors of these.
(There are 6 variations of the design and 5 different slide address changes in the 5 or 6 yrs the pistols were in production)

The 25acp version sometimes called the small frame Ortgies didn't come out till the 4th variation/3rd address style (return of the Erfurt address)
Ser# separetely from the large frame 32 and 380 pistols. The 25acp was #'d 1 thru approx 6000 in this variation.
These had a shorter slide than later 25's and a very thin area in the slide that makes them somewhat fragile and many collectors advise these early 25's not to be fired.

The OP's 25 is a later 5th variation pistol/4th addres style . These in 25cal had a reinforced slide,,no thin fragile area and a slide that was a bit longer than the early production.
Ser#'s approx 6000 thru 48,000
The op's gun looks to have the 2nd style grip medallions. These came in during this variation. Nearly the same as the first style but w/o the double line border and stippled background.

The pistol in good mech condition should handle any standard 25acp ammunition. The grip safety operates a little different from the Colt style in that it locks down in the fire position once pushed in. No need to keep constant hand pressure on it to keep the gun off safe. To return the grip safety to the SAFE postion, press the button oon the left/rear of the frame and the grip safety pops back into the Safe position. Button also functions as the TD.
No screws in the gun,,all interlocking parts., though some very late Ortgies did use grip screws.

Wolf Gunsprings used to sell a Spring-Pak for the Ortgies,,don't know if they still do. I used them in the distant past to get a couple 380's going again.

Now you have to get a 32 and a 380 for the set..
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Old 10-15-2017, 06:27 AM
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Thank you Sir for the bounty of info. This .25 is serial number 570X, does this still have the reinforced slide area or would a pic help? It was recently fired and functioned fine.


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Old 10-15-2017, 07:04 AM
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Default Ortgies

Congrats Post # 5 summarized the Ortgies for you. Great little guns only made from ca 1918 to ca 1925, in .25acp, .32acp, and less common.380acp. Display fine early German engineering and a truly unique "blow back" design. Very accurate, and won numerous pistol competitions back in the day . My advice also is to buy a spring set from Numrichs or Wolf, and view some U-Tube videos on disassembly, and reassembly. This is my ca.1922 .25 acp. Yours, having the "two line 4th address " on the slide, and early grip medallion would be earlier, ca. 1920

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Last edited by OLDSTER; 10-15-2017 at 07:20 AM. Reason: wording
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Old 10-15-2017, 11:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revho View Post
Couldn’t pass up a early 1920’s German made Ortgies pocket gun in .25acp for a small price. Interesting little gun that are supposed to be surprisingly accurate. Also made in the more commonly found .32acp.




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That's not a vest pocket pistol. This is a vest pocket pistol.

I'm kidding the Ortgies is an excellent pistol.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:07 PM
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Nice!

But you gotta be careful of those little mouse guns.
They get to be habit forming.
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Old 10-15-2017, 01:24 PM
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I am not sure I would call that a vest pocket gun, but they are nice little weapons.
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Old 10-15-2017, 02:47 PM
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I have been very surprised and pleased on how accurate this little one has been.
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Old 10-15-2017, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revho View Post
Thank you Sir for the bounty of info. This .25 is serial number 570X, does this still have the reinforced slide area or would a pic help? It was recently fired and functioned fine.


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Your ser# put's it right at the end of the 4th variation/ beginning of the 5th variation (approx #6000 was the end of 4th, beginning of 5th variation).

The 4th (first run of the 25acp Ortgies) were the ones with the thin area in the slide. It's the very back end if the slide surrounding the round cut out for the frame extension. That's the area that was thin on first production 25's.
Another clue to the early style slide is the short nose,,with more of the bbl muzzle showing than on the later production 25's.

The bbl address on your pistol shows it to be a 5th variation (block letters, 2 line w/ Ortgies Patent being the 2nd line). 5th variation pistols are where the reinforced slide and sligthly lengthend slide production began.
If I had to guess from the pic,,I'd say that your's has an earlier 4th variation production slide (short nose and probably the thin rear area).
The address is the 5th variation but the ser# being so close to the approx change over point betw 4th & 5th var pistols I'd guess once more that your's was one of the last of the old style, parts used up (nothing wasted), marked with the 5th style address early on in that period of mfg'r.

All that being said and the cautionary tale of the thin area of the slide and collectors advice of non-firing, ect,,,I have never personally seen any 25acp Ortgies w/a damaged slide.,,and I've been doing repair and restoration of this type of stuff for 45+ years now.
I've seen a lot of them, fixed them, rebuilt some, handled and shot many.
Personally,,I'd check it over, clean and lube it, feed it w/ over the counter FMJ 25acp ammunition. Nothing fancy, no HS special stuff,

Shoot it and enjoy it.
These Ortgies are going on 95+ yrs old now, with unkn historys and you have respect the age, designs and metalurgy.
Yes they can break, so can an out of the box Smith or Remington.
It's not like a range day is generally a couple 100rds out of one of these.
A few shots to satisfy curiosity usually does it and no harm to the gun.

JMO

Last edited by 2152hq; 10-15-2017 at 08:57 PM.
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  #13  
Old 10-16-2017, 12:23 PM
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Nice find.

I'm starting to explore reasonably priced old .32 acp pistols, as I've accumulated about as many interesting 9mm pistols as I can find.

I've picked up both a Savage 1907, and a CZ 27. Those are unique, well-made little shooters, and the price was right.
I've seen the Ortgies in that price range, too; and then the prices start to jump for other makes.
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Old 10-16-2017, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobysnacker View Post
Nice find.

I'm starting to explore reasonably priced old .32 acp pistols, as I've accumulated about as many interesting 9mm pistols as I can find.

I've picked up both a Savage 1907, and a CZ 27. Those are unique, well-made little shooters, and the price was right.
I've seen the Ortgies in that price range, too; and then the prices start to jump for other makes.
And if you happen to be a JMB fan...
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Old 10-16-2017, 06:39 PM
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I wasn't familiar with this firearm and appreciate you taking the time to post it. Best, TH
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Old 10-16-2017, 07:52 PM
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And this "striker-fired pistol" beat out Gaston Glock by many decades.
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Old 10-16-2017, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irn-Bru View Post
My first vest gun is now in a ziplock bag. I fired four rounds of .25 acp through it and the barrel blew off. I was gutted
Excuse me, but what do you mean that you were "gutted"?
It physically hit you? How bad were you hurt?
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Old 10-18-2017, 12:26 AM
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And if you happen to be a JMB fan...
I'm keeping an eye peeled for one of them

I seem to have stumbled onto a Mauser 1914 for not so much. Should be in shortly. Will post photos when it comes!
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Old 10-18-2017, 06:37 AM
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I'm keeping an eye peeled for one of them

I seem to have stumbled onto a Mauser 1914 for not so much. Should be in shortly. Will post photos when it comes!
Me, I'm still missing the 1903 in the Colt pocket version (hard to come by my side of the pond), in the meanwhile I have to make do with the FN/Husqvarna full size version of the 1903.

Mine is an Husqvarna made in the first production year (1917).

Edit. Like the little Mausers too but haven't got one. Have to remedy that someday.
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Old 10-19-2017, 10:46 PM
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When I was a kid my Dad owned two of them. One in .32 acp and the other in .25 acp. He sold them both when I was in HS and so I never had the opportunity to shoot them. I remember he always thought highly of them and why he sold them is beyond me.
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Old 10-19-2017, 11:19 PM
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I just got my first.

Bauer 25. A stainless steel rendition of H Richard's Baby Browning.
Here are a couple of auction photos - it hasn't even arrived at my FFL yet.

Gotta find a magazine for it...
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Old 10-26-2017, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
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I'm keeping an eye peeled for one of them

I seem to have stumbled onto a Mauser 1914 for not so much. Should be in shortly. Will post photos when it comes!
As promised



It's way too big for a vest pocket, though.

Last edited by scoobysnacker; 10-26-2017 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 10-27-2017, 03:21 AM
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As promised



It's way too big for a vest pocket, though.
None of my Mauser made pistols fit in a vest pocket.

2 Lugers and a C96.
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Old 10-27-2017, 11:07 PM
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I picked mine up at my FFL today. I've got a magazine on the way so I'm really looking forward to shooting it. But here's the rub.

This little dude has got some really sharp hard edges on it! I guess the same is true of the baby Brownings, 'cause looking at H Richard's picture the two look virtually identical except for the finish.

Has anybody ever polished and rounded the edges on one of these to make them more pocket-friendly? Even with a pocket holster the edges on this baby look like they'd wear holes right through the cloth of a pocket - or even a holster for that matter...

Last edited by BC38; 10-27-2017 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 10-28-2017, 09:46 AM
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Solid stainless,,so file and polish away.
Just knock off the sharp corners and edges, polish up with 400 or 600 backed with a file, no need to make it look like a bad buffing job!
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Old 10-28-2017, 10:09 AM
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Solid stainless,,so file and polish away.
Just knock off the sharp corners and edges, polish up with 400 or 600 backed with a file, no need to make it look like a bad buffing job!
That's pretty much what I was thinking. I mean, it isn't a classic Browning or anything - though I was reading last night that that they ARE a licensed copy (and therefore virtually identical).

So seeing as how its a $200 gun to start with, I figure there's not that much to lose by modifying it.

Last edited by BC38; 10-29-2017 at 01:29 PM.
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