I have decided to buy a custom 1911 (.45 acp) next spring. Having looked at several different makers, it come down to Les Baer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, or Ed Brown. I'm leaning toward an Ed Brown but wanted to get some input from forum members on your experiences.

I don't think any choice will be a "bad one", but I want to make the "best one".

Thanks guys and gals!

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Which one has the features/options you want? The 1911 itself should feel the same since the frame isn't any different in size or shape. Some offer other enhancements that you might like.

I'm not as much of a 1911 aficionado as many here, but I would agree that it would be hard to make a "wrong" choice.

Of your choices, I would narrow it down to Wilson vs. Brown.

Les Baer's always seemed to border on "too tight" for me (but they may be just fine for everybody else). Plus, if I'm not mistaken, they're set up in such a way that you can't slingshot their slides (I'd like to have that option); I hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong.

I don't actually know much about the Nighthawks, but from what I've seen they don't seem to offer anything that really appeals to me, usually too much of something or not enough of something else...I can't remember, exactly...it's been a while since I've looked at their offerings. [Sidenote: I am intrigued by their Hi-Power, though.]

I like the fact that both Wilson and Brown give customers a variety of options. Personally, I went with Ed Brown for the vote. I've even played with the customization page on his website. I particularly like that I could select a 4.5-5lb trigger option as I prefer a heavier trigger on 1911s. I'm rather fond of the two-tone Special Forces Carry Bobtail model, with some VZ Tactical Carry grips (it's not like I've given it much thought, or anything... ).

However, if I were going to spend that much money on a 1911, I would most likely have one custom built by JD Harrison as I'm rather fond of his retro options.

Thanks for the comments. I too was intrigued enough with their Hi Power offering that I considered getting one, but already having a Hi Power I decided to go a different route. BUT THAT IS ONE SHARP GUN! ...and from what I've read the performance matches the looks!

The Ed Brown Special Forces model is nice, but the Executive Carry Model is the one that has my eye. Wilson has a couple that are making it a difficult decision. That's why I'm not rushing into this choice.

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Always dreamed of owning a Wilson Combat. A while back I got the opportunity to shoot two new ones, 45ACP and 9mm. Great guns in all respects, particularly frame/slide fit... really feel the difference compared to an off the shelf example. But... no magic. Kinda wish I never handled one and still had the dream.

Me too! In Arizona last year I got to handle a couple of Wilson Combats and an Ed Brown model. The frame/slide fit is incredible, and then there's the other special touches that make them what they are.

My motto use to be - "I have the simplest of taste...I only want the best". Haven't always been able to meet that goal, but, God willing next spring I can do so with a handgun.

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Why not go to some gun shows and handle a few. You can buy a used one like new for less than 1/2 the price. Most good 1911 shooters can feel of a gun and tell if it will do good. Most will not function with a lot of different ammo. If you are looking for a carry gun I would lean to Kimber. There are lots of Wilsons and Clarks in my area. You cant wear them out. $1200 should get one 90% or better that will hit the 10 ring. Let us know what you end up with. I like photos. I get to shoot a lot of custom guns each week.

I voted Brown because I have a Kobra carry. Very smooth and accurate.
The only other I had any experience with is Baer. But for the money, Glad I went with Brown.

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Some men, you just can't reach

To each his own, but for the kind of money all of these guys charge you might think that each pistol is built solely by the guy whose name is on the slide, and, that each pistol can put 10 consecutive rounds into a 2 inch center to center group at 50 yards out of a Ransom Rest.

Yes, you might think that.

On the other hand, there are pistolsmiths around like Alex Hamilton and Robert Garrett whose 1911s meet those qualifications.

Your title says "Custom"

Do you really mean "Custom" or are you looking at one of their standard off the shelf configurations?

It is VERY hard to be dissatisfied with any of those selections be it a "Custom" project or one of their standard off the shelf models.

I went with Les Baer since he already had a start on what I wanted and was easy to work with. I began with a Long Slide
The oversize mag release, smooth laser logo grips and Baer coat were added at the request for the build. Most of the other features were things that he put on his off the shelf models already,

The guns show near me has never had a vendor with ANY of the gun makes that I mention, which is surprising considering there are 600+ tables! If I could find a 90% for a substantially lower price I would sacrifice having one custom made for me.

As to KIMBER. A good friend has one that he cherishes, and when I finally got him to bring it to the range so I could shoot it, well, lets just say that we couldn't get a full magazine through it without a failure of one type or another. Thus, for me, Kimber is a no go.

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Stay protected my friends.

Have you considered Guncrafter?

I looked at the options you mentioned and was really leaning towards an Ed Brown Classic Custom, but then I looked into Guncrafter, and I really fell in love with the simple configuration of the No Name Government (not that you can't customize the heck out of it). I just put a two tone model (melonite upper and hard chrome lower) on their one year layaway with a $500 deposit, and I can't wait! They don't have the name recognition of the bigger custom shops, but they have an excellent reputation.

Wilson for the win.

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Dave Ramsey Cultist

I did not talk about Kimber because it was not in your list.

To stereotype an entire company because of one example that is not 100% is not fair.

Kimber makes some very nice pistols on their upper end. I have been shooting a Polymer framed Kimber Gold Match (14+1 rounds) for many years now and The Gold Match is a spectacular pistol for the money in either the single stack or double stack configurations.
Then there is the Kimber Super Match
I removed the magazine funnel on mine, but this firearm is the equal of most all examples of the four manufacturers that you mentioned that I have had the pleasure to shoot

My Les Baer Long Slide out shoots it, but not by much and the Kimber Super Match shoots better than my Les Baer Concept VII
The only other two 1911s that turn in better performance than my Kimber Super Match are my Ted Yost Signature model and my Forrest Special
It is a shame you are not in Florida, I would gladly meet you at the range to shoot one day. I can not tell you how many fellow Forum members I have corrupted over the years letting them shoot firearms the had not had a chance to handle before

Perhaps one of the other folks in this thread is close to you and willing to make the same offer.

Other than replacing Les Baer with Rock River, I think you are on the right track. Rock River pistols are superior to Les Baer, IMHO. The only custom 1911 pistols I own are from Clark Custom, but I've some experience with Rock River and like them more. I don't carry a 1911, but I have a Springfield Armory Match Trophy that has a fitted barrel bushing and Cylinder & Slide hammer, sear, etc. It is very shootable, accurate and reliable. Spending one or more thousand bucks wouldn't get me anything better, IMHO.

Ooh...Guncrafter...forgot about them. I like their no-frills No Name.

Aren't they the ones that make the .50GI?

I want a Ed Brown,for a safe queen!

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Life is short,live it fully.

I got my Wilson 1911's used for a great price, even got to shoot them before buying them. I like them a lot, but If I were in your shoes, I might go for the Brown, and have a little change left over, depending on the model you are looking at.

Can't really go wrong with any on your list. Do any of them make the exact gun you want? Another option is to buy a good base gun, like a Colt or Springfield, shoot it, and send it off for custom work later.

Also, you might want to look around in some of the gun forums, I often see some pretty good deals on lightly used semi custom 1911's.

Have fun picking one out.

So did John Giles (RIP). There's a guy who built the gun start to finish by himself. Any one of my Giles .45s or .38 Mid Range 1911s will still do that closer to 1.5 inches at 50 yards on a Ransom Rest. Ask anyone that owns one. Better yet find an old time that still has the test targets. My newest Giles is 1972, 70 series, then 3 Colt 1911 Kits (built on Colt 1911 gunsmith Kits), one 38 Mid Range and two .45 ACPs from the 1960s.

Heck, I've got a George Madore customized .45 Springfield that can do 2 inch groups at 50 yards.

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ANTIQUESMITHS
LM1300 SWHF425

I have owned all 4 of your choices:




I never warmed up to the Les Baer Monolith so I traded it off.

The Nighthawk was nice but I liked the other two better


I traded the Nighthawk Bob Marvel for this:


The Wilson Combat is my carry gun and I will NEVER sell it.

The Ed Brown is as nice as the Wilson Combat but I hate to holster it, the finish is AMAZING!

You can't go wrong with any of them but my fav's out of those 4 is Wilson or Brown

I think you should be asking yourself "Am I a good enough shooter to wring the most out of a custom gun and justify the extra expense?"
Maybe when I was younger, but now I know I'm not.
I do own a Clark Longslide. Great gun, but I'm well aware that I can't shoot it to its full potential.
Frankly, any good quality standard production 1911 will serve my needs and abilities without costing a fortune.

Excellent, excellent point. I am afraid I can’t wring the full accuracy out of a Hi-Point any more, much less an Ed Brown or Wilson!

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Possum—The other white meat!

On the other side of your argument, when you have a custom pistol, it is made with the highest quality parts (durable) and if you aren't hitting your target, you know that it is you and not the equipment that is the weak link. That means a lot to a lot of folks.

My response to that would be, "So?" Increased performance isn't the only reason to get a custom gun. Some people appreciate the craftsmanship and quality. Some people may have more confidence in such a gun. Some people admire the work of a particular gunsmith (or manufacturer, in the case of the previously mentioned makers). Some people simply want one because they want one. Of course, there can also be a lot of overlap with these reasons, too.

Now, if one's reason for getting a custom gun is increased performance, then I would agree there's a point of diminishing returns. For example, one of the items on my "bucket list" is to get a Series 70 Colt Government Model and have JD Harrison do a retro package on it. However, seeing as how I'm not an expert marksman, I would probably skip most of the accuracy enhancements (match barrel, slide-to-frame tightening, etc.). But there are a lot of other reasons why I'd want a custom 1911 (see above).

If you want a true custom made gun, you might contact Terry Tussey in Carson City

Take a look at Fusion Arms.

1911 Parts & Pistols | Fusion Firearms

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Eccentric old coot

I've shot Wilson and Ed Brown. Both fine guns. Can't go wrong with either but I prefer Wilson.

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I'm not a 1911 guy, and I don't own ANY 1911s currently.

I do appreciate the history of them, and respect the proven design. One day I plan to own one, but am in no hurry as semi-autos just don't interest me.

My first choice was a Colt, after all. However, I know the real quality of mass produced items. So a production gun probably just won't be good enough for me, unless I buy old and then the price doesn't work anymore.

My new plans are to buy a decent quality model 1911 for a decent price, will probably still be a Colt but who knows, then use that as a "base" to tune and customize myself.

I strive to do ALL of my gunsmithing and have become proficient with revolvers. So I would then study my Kuhnhausen 1911 manual, along with Wilson videos, and build my own match target.

In fact, the whole reason for ending up with a 1911 will probably be more for the exercise of learning to smith them, more than it is wanting or needing one for a real purpose.

I vote build your own, although you will most likely get better overall tolerances by buying from one of the above firms. Does that equate to be worth the higher price though? Everyone will think differently, so do what you like.

I've never owned a Kimber, but a friend of mine who is a savy and prolific shooter has owned several. He has nothing good to say about them. Just sayin' that this apparently isn't the only example that is problematic.

With the plethora of quality upgrade parts available for 1911's and the forged slides and frames having such close tolerances, it is relatively easy to assemble a good 1911. It is mostly parts assembly, if quality parts are purchased to begin with. Trigger jobs and fitting of the grip safety are the most tedious and is still a little of an art, rather than kitchen table assembly. It was much harder in the old days and required special skills and equipment. The problem is that when you get done, your gun isn't worth the total of all of the quality parts. A custom pistol retains much more value.

FWIW, I've spoken with Tussey and have handled his guns. I also had the opportunity to shoot one of his guns during a course I attended (it was the instructor's gun). Very nice work. However, I wasn't sure he was still working after his accident. I'm glad to see he's still at it.

I went thru this process several years ago. I had owned 5 or 6 Colt 1911's. But none were set up just the way I wanted. I finally decided on a Les Bear. I got the Premier ll with the 50 yard guarantee and a few minor changes. I am very happy with it. I have handled and shot a bunch of different other brands of 1911. I think you would probably be able to live with any on your list. I would look at price, features, delivery times and how easy the company is to deal with. I was very happy with Les Baer. I talked to him a NRA Convention. He spent a good bit of time with me, answering questions and explaining his gun's features to me.

Many years ago I sent a Colt Combat Elite to Wilson Combat for custom work and it came back a piece of junk. That gun wouldn't feed properly--even hard ball--had a terrible trigger pull and shot all over the place. While I was deciding whether to send the gun back to Wilson, or sell it, someone stole the thing.

I have no experience with Ed Brown or Nighthawk.

I do own a Les Baer and love it. It does seem to be "too tight", but runs great. I even called the factory once to order a Les Baer t-shirt, and had a long, pleasant conversation with the man who answered the phone--Les Baer himself.

I have wanted an Ed Brown for years. I spent a lot of money buying, selling, and trading other guns, and I could have/should have bought one...but, I didn't, and now that I'm retired, it just doesn't make any sense to spend that much money on a single gun. My sons have no interest in guns ( ) so there's no point in buying an heirloom gun to pass down. Besides, my Ruger SR1911 CMD is all the 1911 I need. Still, an Ed Brown is a beautiful gun...that would be my choice if I was going to get one.

I would go with the ED BROWN with the choices you have made.I have an early Kimber Custom Royal Blue that is my only gun in that class.Have a couple of Kimbers only change I made was mags,Guns run perfect.Guess I'm the lone wolf with Kimber Cust.Service.Had a problem called they were as nice as can be .IF...I was to get a true custom,I would have Russell at AWA do it.
Jim

Being a mechanical device, any handgun is capable of malfunctioning. That is a fact of life. However, having talked with numbers of people about 1911's and hearing others talk on them I came to realize that the number of people having experienced problems with Kimbers was large. Top that off with the only personal experience I had with them being a negative one and it should make my "reservations" be easy to understand. The only complaint I've heard about Wilson Combat or Ed Brown is the price.

Naturally, I like the price point on Kimbers better, but if I'm going to spend over a thousand dollars on a handgun it makes sense to me to get one with a stellar reputation, even though it cost me more.

I wish I did live in Florida. The opportunity to join the ranks of those you've "corrupted" would be fun.

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As has been said before, Dan Wesson makes the best production 1911 available. Companies such as Kimber don’t even come close.

The only reason to buy a custom 1911 is the prestige of owning one and the appreciation of what you consider to be the best.

If it were me, and I have. I would spend $1500 on a Dan Wesson and another $200 or so on a trigger job. Not that the trigger is bad. But it can be better.

Unless you intend on bench resting your new gun, you won’t be able to see a major difference between them.

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LOL.... always thought it would be cooool to own one of the above............. but alas...... I'm not a "Cocked and Locked" (carry) kind of guy..............

but; if I was it would be a Novak Browning HP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I've got a W. Ger. Sig 220 that will do cloverleafs at 50' and some really cool Performance Center S&Ws.........

...... so ya.... coool .45s but what am I really getting for three grand.........

bragging rights????????????????????????


Wait; no one ever sees my carry guns anyway.................

All that said everyone should have at least one "dream gun" ...... good luck!

Have NEVER seen one of the high-end guns at a gun show - they never make it to a table; and finding a 90% Wilson or similar is going to cost a LOT more than $1200 - new they run closer to $4K

I'm sitting here wondering what to do with a "custom" 1911, when my <$500 ones hit what I want them to, when I want them to! Obviously I don't shoot at matches or even "gentleman" bets at the range! The only gun I keep safe from all harm is a K22 Masterpiece that was my Dad's that he bought after WWII. It is mechanically flawless with very little holster wear at the muzzle. When you decide and buy the 1911 you choose, please post a picture so I know what mine is missing. I suppose a smith could smooth out the action on mine, but it's only a shooter of defenseless paper & cans! (I hope I don't need to awaken to a need for it's main purpose!) I would like to see what you decide on. The pics above are very beautiful. Maybe someday I'll purchase a safe queen. 1911s are great guns. Good luck. Jeff T., Pgh PA

The short answer is, "Nothing."

You can think of a custom versus a production 1911 sort of like a Porche vs a Mustang...although there isn't all that much difference in the two 1911s. A custom 1911 might have (and should have for the price difference) better materials, tighter tolerances, better finish, and better accuracy (though the accuracy also depends on the shooter.) A custom 1911 will give you more bragging rights, if that's important to you...and who doesn't like to have a beautiful firearm to brag about?

There's nothing at all wrong with wanting a custom 1911 instead of a production model, if you can afford it. A custom 1911 won't make you a bulls-eye shooter, though, if you don't already have the ability. A better tool can help, but you can't suddenly carve the Mona Lisa just because you bought a more expensive knife.

Kimbers aren't in the same league as the others on your list. They are pretty and once had a great reputation, but those days are long gone. I really like Springfield Armory 1911's, but unless one comes from their custom shop (even the Match Trophy), it isn't to be considered either.

"I went with Les Baer since he already had a start on what I wanted and was easy to work with."
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Now there's something you don't hear everyday.

One question I have is with all these accuracy guarantees, has anyone independently verified the claims with their own machine rest tests at 50 yards? I know a fellow who bought a Rock River 1911 and it shot a sub 1" ten shot group at 50 yards. I saw the group and was amazed.

It may or may not matter, but I still find it to be an interesting tidbit about Les Baer pistols and the 1.5" at 50 yards accuracy guarantee...

It's not that Baer does anything different (at all, in any way) with these guns. It's quite simply that after the pistol has been built and tested, some of them print a slightly tighter group from the machine rest at 50 yards, and when that pistol can do it every time when tested, that pistol becomes a pistol offered with the 1.5"/50yd guarantee, with a couple hundred added to the price.

My best shooting bro has four Baer pistols, I had one a couple years back but due to life situations, I couldn't afford to keep it. Another close friend has two Baer pistols. I currently have a Les Baer-era Springfield Custom pistol that was made back in 1991 when Springfield hired him to open their custom shop.

All of these pistols are elite and they lay down the kinds of tight groups that many folks simply couldn't see with their "one box of ammo twice a year" shooting skills. I believe the kinds of guys who eat, sleep and poop shooting would EASILY notice the kind of accuracy that I am 100% certain a Les Baer 1911 can lay down (the kinds of folks on this and other gun forums!) and if you are one of the folks who has been shooting for a long time and you have never shot a Baer, Brown or Wilson and you think that your Ruger or Kimber or Rock Island or Remington R1 can do exactly the same thing, I believe that:

1) you are selling your own ability short, and -YOU- would see the difference if you tried

2) I can assure you that there are plenty of folks who don't need anyone else's stamp of approval as to what a $2,000 pistol gets you or why they wanted to own one.

At the same time, it should be said...

A) If you have a $600 pistol and you love it, you are doing absolutely EVERYTHING right, I firmly believe this. You are living the dream UNTIL you try to convince the world (or yourself) that nothing is to be gained from a $1,400 Dan Wesson or a $1,900 Les Baer or a $2,400 Ed Brown or a $3,200 Wilson. Until you have walked a mile in those shoes, please don't pretend you know what these guns are like.

B) Serious Bullseye competition shooters, the shooters with other worldly skill sets and years of dedicated practice shoot one-handed at distances that most of us look absolutely foolish at, and these folks would never climb the ranks of the finest Bullseye shooters in history with Baer, Brown and Wilson guns. No. These guys have elite craftsmen build competition-specific handguns at similar cost from the ground-up. This is NOT to say that Baer, Brown and Wilson aren't "worth the price", but it's simply for some levity.

There is plenty of room in our hobby for the Ruger, Kimber, Rock Island, Remington, Dan Wesson, Baer, Brown, Wilson and all of them. Until you have experienced these different 1911 pistols hands-on, I'm not sure you actually know how you will ultimately think about them.

Me? Well I like a 1911 pistol for many reasons, but when the rubber meets the road, I feel more comfortable with other pistols that aren't 1911's. I can shoot a 1911 and I can enjoy one, but handgun nirvana for me comes from a Smith & Wesson Performance Center Limited target gun. If money is not part of the equation, I would NOT accept any 1911 from anyone in trade for my S&W 845, and if I had a one-target showdown against anyone with any gun in my safe, it's the 845 that I choose. The 845 is no "low cost" handgun and there are (arguably) less than 600 in existence, but if you want a pistol that can do what the elite 1911 pistols can do AND you want exclusivity and ultimate "cool", chase down an 845.

People often say "I've ridden in a Cadillac before, and a Benz S-Class is no better for the money". While I'd agree that on a trip around the block they may not see the difference, I challenge them to take a 100 mile ride in a Cadillac, and the return trip in the Benz...then talk to me.

I view handguns much the same way.

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I'd buy the Wilson Combat, specifically a Super Grade, if I could swing it. I've looked at a lot of expensive 1911s over a lot of years. For me, what separates them is looks and feel. Nighthawks and Browns are doubtless great guns and if they appeal to you, wonderful! - but they look and feel like a machine made them. (JMHO, of course.) Baers are the Chevrolets of the lot. Great guns for the money. The Wilson Super Grade always gave me the impression that they are made by gunsmiths who think about 1911s the same way I do. They look like and feel like they are "made by men, not by machines," so to speak.

As for shooting qualities, any properly fitted 1911 with a good quality barrel, proper trigger, and good ammunition is going to "outshoot" 98%+ of those who pick it up. I'd advise you to pick the gun you buy based on looks and feel. If you are one of the very best shooters in the 99+ percentile, you probably need a pure target gun individually built for you by one of the handful of the best .45 pistolsmiths out there. For the rest of us, any one of the semi-custom guns like those you mention will shoot way better than we can.

Is that guarantee with 3 shot groups, 5 shot groups or (highly unlikely) 10 shot groups? Are the groups really shot at 50 yards? If one were to challenge the 1.5" guarantee with their own machine rest groups, what would Les Baer say? My point is that the guarantee is simply taking the word of the manufacturer. The vast majority of customers would never challenge it. Groups also depend on the ammo used. I would be very hesitant to pay hundreds more for the 1.5" "guarantee".

I have to admit, I've always wondered about that, but Baer claims that is not the case. I asked them about the manufacturing differences and they provided answers without hesitation.

I'm always a skeptic when it comes to things like this, but I tend to believe them. They claim the 1.5-inch guns are built to be 1.5-inch guns, not "selected" from normal production. I can't prove it either way, but looking at two examples side by side, I can see some evidence of what they told me. Maybe I am just imagining... and it's only two guns.

Either way, both versions of the Premier II are nice guns, and I think reasonably good value for the money spent. Incidentally, of the two, I prefer my Illinois-made "3-inch gun". I don't put either of them in the same class with the Wilson Classic Super Grades I've seen, but then you can buy three Baers, or close to it, for what one will pay for the Wilson.

I also agree with the comment about the shooter not selling himself short when considering a better gun. Anyone absolutely WILL shoot better with a better gun, in my experience the quality of the trigger being the most important factor. Of course whether the individual improvement justifies the cost of the better gun is purely a personal judgment.

I have a Rock River but I've never tested it myself. I use mine for shooting hardball at 50 yds (I got the DCM legal model). I got mine in 2008, just before they quit. I've heard they started up again, no idea how the new ones compare.

Mine was perfect out of the box. Absolutely no play in the slide, barrel, or frame fit. Not so tight you couldn't rack the slide - it was perfectly smooth out of the box. It has never malfunctioned in 9 years now.

The test target was about a 2" 10 shot target at 50 yds, federal match hardball ammo.

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