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  #51  
Old 03-01-2018, 09:50 AM
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Uh, wait a second, are you sure they weren't fakes? Was this Leroy Brown a big guy - say about 6 foot 4? Was he hunting trouble? Did he pull the revolver from his pocket? Was the razor in his shoe? You really have to do your homework and ask good questions, check provenance and buy the gun and/or razor, not the story.

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Dave
I don't know about that, but it all happened in the baddest part of south Chicago.
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  #52  
Old 03-01-2018, 10:35 AM
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I don't know about that, but it all happened in the baddest part of south Chicago.
There used to be a Japanese band from, well, Japan who specialized in classic country songs. The only English they spoke were the song lyrics, and they worked hard to learn to sing classics like "Green Grow the Violets", "Red River Valley", "Streets of Laredo", "Shenandoah", etc. They played their own instruments and wore classic western clothing - pearl snap shirts, jeans, boots, Stetsons - the whole 9 yards. The group was very good, and came to the USA every few years to buy new clothing, pick-up ideas for new songs to add to their repertoire, and just sight see. The last time I saw them, the last song in their set was "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown". They did a good job of it, but that just ruined the performance for me. Haven't seen or heard of them since.

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  #53  
Old 03-01-2018, 12:47 PM
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There are more than a few Japanese C&W and bluegrass performance groups. But I haven't heard of any American groups doing Japanese songs.

Some might remember the movie "Bridges at Toko-Ri" and the Tokyo nightclub scene where a Japanese group is playing "I've got spurs that jingle jangle jingle."
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Old 03-01-2018, 12:54 PM
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Not quite the character of Poncho Villa but I do have a .44 magnum owned by Mexicos former Head of State, Jose Lopez Portillo.. Apparently he liked guns too. (-:}
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Old 03-01-2018, 01:22 PM
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So how did you come by it? No one else in Mexico can own anything larger than .38 Special, and not very many Mexicans have enough pull to "Legally" own any handgun.

BTW, I have lived in Midland twice. 77-79 and 84-91.
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Old 03-01-2018, 01:27 PM
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Some years ago now, I bought this .32 caliber revolver and razor in Chicago from a man named Leroy Brown.
Have you considered having them lettered? I ask because this lady named Doris (a real looker for her years) tried to sell me "Jim's gun and razor" years ago, but I found her story that her old man just took them away from Leroy pretty hard to belive.
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:06 PM
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Some years ago now, I bought this .32 caliber revolver and razor in Chicago from a man named Leroy Brown.
What the heck were you doing on the Southside of Chicago, in the meanest part of town?
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:19 PM
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Have you considered having them lettered? I ask because this lady named Doris (a real looker for her years) tried to sell me "Jim's gun and razor" years ago, but I found her story that her old man just took them away from Leroy pretty hard to belive.
Doris? From the south side of old Chicago? If it's the same Doris, she was also trying to sell a custom (Lincoln) Continental and a (Cadillac) El Dorado too a few years ago. I don't know if she was successful or not - hope so as she still owes me money.

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Dave
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Old 03-01-2018, 05:32 PM
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What the heck were you doing on the Southside of Chicago, in the meanest part of town?
IIRC, he had a job selling "Custom Two Piece Pool Cues".
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  #60  
Old 03-01-2018, 09:24 PM
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So how did you come by it? No one else in Mexico can own anything larger than .38 Special, and not very many Mexicans have enough pull to "Legally" own any handgun.

BTW, I have lived in Midland twice. 77-79 and 84-91.
Collectors Firearms in Houston had exported it to him and when I got the gun they had imported it back an were in the process of liquidating his collection. It's a .44 magnum Thompson Contender 10" barrel. Hadn't been shot much. Still hasn't (not with the .44 barrel anyway). Came with his registration card.
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  #61  
Old 03-02-2018, 09:20 AM
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^^Its good to be king. (Or El Presedente.)^^
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Old 03-03-2018, 11:57 PM
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There used to be a Japanese band from, well, Japan who specialized in classic country songs. The only English they spoke were the song lyrics, and they worked hard to learn to sing classics like "Green Grow the Violets", "Red River Valley", "Streets of Laredo", "Shenandoah", etc. They played their own instruments and wore classic western clothing - pearl snap shirts, jeans, boots, Stetsons - the whole 9 yards. The group was very good, and came to the USA every few years to buy new clothing, pick-up ideas for new songs to add to their repertoire, and just sight see. The last time I saw them, the last song in their set was "Bad, Bad, Leroy Brown". They did a good job of it, but that just ruined the performance for me. Haven't seen or heard of them since.

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Dave
Here is one of them...
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Old 03-04-2018, 12:00 AM
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Uh, wait a second, are you sure they weren't fakes? Was this Leroy Brown a big guy - say about 6 foot 4? Was he hunting trouble? Did he pull the revolver from his pocket? Was the razor in his shoe? You really have to do your homework and ask good questions, check provenance and buy the gun and/or razor, not the story.

Regards,

Dave


Did you happen to acquire it from a pool-shootin boy named Willie McCoy?
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  #64  
Old 03-04-2018, 12:13 AM
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Did you happen to acquire it from a pool-shootin boy named Willie McCoy?
Yeah, I think that was the guy; he told me to just call him "Slim".
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Old 03-06-2018, 02:37 PM
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Yeah, I think that was the guy; he told me to just call him "Slim".
When I encountered him, he claimed to be looking for "the King of 42nd Street" who was allegedly driving a "drop-top Cadillac". He seemed to be in bad spirits saying that the King of 42nd Street had taken all of his money, and he (Slim) had come to get his money back. I later heard that a huge fight had occurred between the combatants, and that the "King", aka "Big Jim Walker", had not faired well ("cut in about a hundred places and shot in a couple more"). Of course, these were stories I heard second hand, so who knows if they're true or not.

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Old 03-06-2018, 02:43 PM
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I have seen many of Pancho's guns during the 35 years of guns shows while in ARIZONA. Also met a many a man who's Grandfather rode with Pancho.
Pancho was very busy.
Bill@Yuma
We lived in El Paso for a number of years, and an old member of the congregation at our church told of being a boy and sitting on Pancho's lap at an ice cream parlor in El Paso. Said he seemed a nice enough fellow at the time...

John
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Old 03-06-2018, 03:47 PM
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When I encountered him, he claimed to be looking for "the King of 42nd Street" who was allegedly driving a "drop-top Cadillac". He seemed to be in bad spirits saying that the King of 42nd Street had taken all of his money, and he (Slim) had come to get his money back. I later heard that a huge fight had occurred between the combatants, and that the "King", aka "Big Jim Walker", had not faired well ("cut in about a hundred places and shot in a couple more"). Of course, these were stories I heard second hand, so who knows if they're true or not.

Regards,

Dave
That's the guy!!!

I have a friend whose wife's cousin's boyfriend saw the whole thing go down, so it has to be true!
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Old 03-08-2018, 09:26 AM
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Marshwheeling,

Yep, there were Jewish.
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Old 04-12-2018, 11:46 PM
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Some years ago now, I bought this .32 caliber revolver and razor in Chicago from a man named Leroy Brown.
I'll bet he was Bad.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:54 AM
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A few more pictures from the Punitive Expedition period. The last one shows Pershing's Apache scouts in Mexico with their M1911s.
Considering the ancient animosities between the Apache and Mexicans, I often thought that we should have made more effort to recruit Apaches into the Border Patrol.

I still like the idea. Diversity and all that.
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Old 04-13-2018, 02:16 AM
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We nearly bought a skull that was offered as Francisco Villas, except it was rather small. The seller allowed as how it was Panchos skull “when he was a leetle boy”.
Note to self be careful not to read such things when you have just took a drink of your favorite bourbon.
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:08 PM
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Considering the ancient animosities between the Apache and Mexicans, I often thought that we should have made more effort to recruit Apaches into the Border Patrol.

I still like the idea. Diversity and all that.
The Apache scouts were indeed out after Mexican scalps. They took the point at the battle of Ojos Azules on May 5 1916 (Major Howze commanding) which resulted in 61 dead Villistas. Most of those were attributed to the Apache scouts using their .45s. Not a single American casualty resulted from that skirmish.
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Old 04-13-2018, 07:27 PM
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I'll bet he was Bad.
Baddest man in the whole damned town.
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:57 AM
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Really?

Badder than ole King Kong?
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:42 AM
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Oh, yeah, even badder than a junkyard dog.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:48 AM
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Oh, yeah, even badder than a junkyard dog.
Junkyard dogs aren't bad.

The junkyard owners on the other hand...
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:37 AM
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Junkyard dogs aren't bad.

The junkyard owners on the other hand...
I don't know which was worse. The junkyard dogs (and they were real bad) or the billy goats they kept in there to keep the grass down. They put the dogs up during the day but the goats were always there. Leaning over the fender to pull a part was always an invitation to them.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:53 AM
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I dug this out, it's from 1960 article. This is the Colt Panco Villa
was carrying when killed by opposing gang in 1923. Grips inset
with Rubies and Gold. I have another article from later, early 70s
I think, that has the mate to this gun found in wall of hotel bath
room in El Paso. Where he is thought to have stashed it to avoid
arrest with weapon by the Feds who were after him at the time
for smuggling and bootlegging on the Tex/ Mex border.
I will post the other article when I find it.




Back in the last century....


A close personal friend came into possession of a Colt found in a wall.........


My friend had a small gun smithin' business, building bench rest rifles and such.
He tells me of two boys coming into his shop one Friday afternoon with an old pistol they wanted to sell for beer money.


My friend told me when they handed him the big pistol...

He had to prop his arms up on the workbench to keep from shaking some much.


He ask the boys where they had gotten the gun. They told him they were helping tear down an old house
in Portland, TN for the popular lumber and found it in one of the walls.



The man they were working for told the boys they could have it.


My friend bought their story and the big Colt.


I have saw the revolver, it is marked Co. D sn 125 and it's in purty darn good shape for an old Walker.


That I am certain did not belong to Pancho.




*As a side note, Turner Kirkland tried to get my friend to declare he had it........I don't believe he ever did.




.
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Old 04-14-2018, 02:30 PM
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I was once asked if I knew Pancho Villa.

Do I know Pancho Villa?

One day, I was riding my horse, and Pancho Villa came up to me, pulled his Colt Single Action Army revolver, pointed it at my head and said:

"Meester, give my you gun."

What could I do? I did not want to die! I gave Pancho Villa my factory engraved pinch frame Colt Single Action Army in 44-40 cal., with carved steer head ivory stocks.

Then, Pancho says to me: "Meester, give me you money. Give me all you money."

What could I do? I did not want to die! I gave Pancho Villa my money.

Then Pancho says to me: "See that horse sheet? Eat that horse sheet!"

What could I do? I did not want to die! I ate the horse sheet.

Next, Pancho says to me: "Meester, nice horse. Give me you horse!"

What could I do? I still did not want to die that day! I gave Pancho Villa my horse.

Good horse that he is, my horse bucked Pancho Villa off his back, and upon falling, Pancho dropped both my Colt revolver and his own. I picked up Pancho's plain Colt SAA, and my beautifully modified Colt SAA, pointed them both at Pancho Villa's head as he lay in the dirt and I said:

"Pancho, I am taking back my Colt revolver. I am also taking your Colt."

Pancho looked at me, shrugged, thought "What could I do? I did not want to die!," and sadly said "I give my Colt to Collects."

I grabbed my good horse, named Pistola, and said to Pancho, "Pancho, I have the Colts, so I am taking my horse back from you."

Pancho still did not want to die, so he shrugged and said: "Collects, I think you deserve this magnificent horse," with both Colts still pointed at Pancho's head.

Then I said, "Pancho, give me back my money!"

Pancho shrugged, handed me my money as he thought "What could I do? I did not want to die!" I took my money back from Pancho.

There was still some horse sheet on the street, so I cocked both Colt SAAs, kept them pointed at Pancho Villa's head, and said to Pancho: "You see that horse sheet? Eat that horse sheet!"

What could Pancho do? He still did not want to die that day! Pancho Villa shrugged, then picked up and ate a huge, stinking pile of horse sheet.

You ask me if I know Pancho Villa!

I had loonch with Pancho Villa!
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:23 PM
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I remember the Cadillac Bar and went there many times. Working for DPS years ago it was common to go across the border. Many of the locals would go across to eat. The margaritas were sure strong. Stayed in the Posada Hotel near the river as well. It was a shame things got so ugly down there.
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Old 08-24-2018, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by 1-1917 View Post
Collectors Firearms in Houston had exported it to him and when I got the gun they had imported it back an were in the process of liquidating his collection. It's a .44 magnum Thompson Contender 10" barrel. Hadn't been shot much. Still hasn't (not with the .44 barrel anyway). Came with his registration card.
He was a Gun Buff, and one of the worst "heads of state" this country ever had. I remember that president Reagan gave him a Winchester Bolt Action rifle as a present in a meeting they held in the early 80´s. The photo appear in all the news papers of the time. He also had a Ruger Mini-14, at that particular time this rifle was a NO NO for civilians.
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:41 AM
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The Colt 1860 Army that I am now the family care taker of has family lore attributed back to it being carried by Jesse James. We have a notarized letter stating it from past family member telling the story to the best of her recollection. Too bad names are not present and that a "friend of a friend" or something worded like that got it from James and then "gave" it to a family member who gave to to a family member and so forth.

The current generation of my family all understand there is no added value to the gun and that like Pancho Villa, Jesse James also has hundreds of guns attributed to him through family lore and legend.
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Old 08-24-2018, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by RdrBill View Post
I have seen many of Pancho's guns during the 35 years of guns shows while in ARIZONA. Also met a many a man who's Grandfather rode with Pancho.
Pancho was very busy.
Bill@Yuma
My grandfather rode against pancho. His only regret was not being able to catch up to him so they could give him a dirt nap.

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Old 08-24-2018, 12:56 PM
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I had a client, now deceased, that was born very close to the border with mexico. His mother had a shack, dirt floors, and use to trade with the indians. He had a irish name but mostly mexican. I asked him how they got to arizona. He said it was around 1915, and his father was prospecting for gold in sonora, and came across villa's men. He jumped in a ditch, as they were shooting at him. After a while of this, he stood up, and shouted to them that they were real brave mother fu*kers shooting at an unarmed man. This surprised them so much, that he must be very brave so go on your way. He said the next day his father decided to move them to arizona thinking they may change their mind.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:12 PM
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Recently spent a few days in Candelaria, TX. It was the site of an Army/National Guard cavalry post from 1916 to 1919 that supported the search for Pancho. In anticipation of his capture the Army imported this custom jail cell. At least that is the story I got after an afternoon of cactus juice and beer.
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Old 08-24-2018, 01:17 PM
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What gun did the other Pancho carry ?
You know The Cisco Kid's side kick , had a horse named Loco !
Did you know that was the first TV show filmed in color and the first to have a Hispanic in a costarring role ? It predated Ricky Ricardo on I Love Lucy show by one year!
Gary

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Old 08-24-2018, 01:35 PM
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What gun did the other Pancho carry ?
You know The Cisco Kid's side kick , had a horse named Loco !
Did you know that was the first TV show filmed in color and the first to have a Hispanic in a costarring role ? It predated Ricky Ricardo on I Love Lucy show by one year!
Gary
take a wild guess.

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Old 08-24-2018, 02:19 PM
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My dad was born in Larado (or so he claims) in 1921 and he adored Villa. Just sayin'.
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Old 08-24-2018, 02:48 PM
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For quite a while, a museum to the south of El Paso had Pancho Villa's death mask on display. Looked like it would have fit his face pretty well. He had a rather small head, evidently. Sic Semper Ladrones.

John
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