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  #51  
Old 03-22-2018, 07:16 PM
murdock23 murdock23 is offline
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Default 1st Impressions and range report

Comfortable, loud and more kick than expected; I'm used to 9mm in a Beretta 92FS. Accuracy up close with both is about equal, further out I shoot the Beretta better.
I was shooting 22 for about 2 hours when I switched to the GP101. 1st group of 5 was about 12". Each successive group was smaller down to 3" with the 6th group.
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  #52  
Old 03-22-2018, 09:06 PM
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Never met a gun I didn't like.
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  #53  
Old 03-23-2018, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by fiasconva View Post
I have a question for you 9 mm revolver owners. How accurate is your revolver compared to a semi 9 mm? More, less, or about the same?
My recollection is that my 940 (it's been quite a while) shot about like any J-frame. I generally am able to shoot the tiney Nineys (made that up today! - edited: a friend showed me someone else using it in 2012, so I guess I didn't!) like the Kahr PM-9/Glock 43/Beretta Nano more accurately than I am able to shoot a J-frame and there is no question that I am able to shoot a larger 9mm (say the Glock 19/Beretta 92/BHP) significantly more accurately than I am a J-frame.

This probably has more to do with the way the guns fit my hand's grip and length of pull than any inherent accuracy of the guns themselves.
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  #54  
Old 03-26-2018, 07:39 AM
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Erich, is there any accuracy advantage between your semi auto handguns and a j at about a yard or so away?

Shooting Illustrated | Clearing Handgun Malfunctions
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  #55  
Old 03-26-2018, 07:57 AM
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rock, how often will the -average- civilian take his/her .357 to the range and train with .357 ammo?

Or, how often CAN the -average- civilian AFFORD to take his/her .357 to the range and train with .357 ammo??

OR OR-how often can the -average- civilian TOLERATE firing .357 ammo at the range for practice???
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  #56  
Old 03-26-2018, 11:11 AM
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Erich, is there any accuracy advantage between your semi auto handguns and a j at about a yard or so away?
This sounds like it's a sarcastic question, but I'll treat it as if it's not.

I can't say: I've never shot any of my micro-nines in that close and have only shot J-frames that close in extremely rare CQB classes. In all honesty, how a gun points (what's crucial at that distance) will vary from individual to individual and gun to gun. And can be varied even then: the Delta Grip from Ergo Grips makes my 640-1 point perfectly for me. My Glock 43 doesn't point well (it's high, as most Glocks are for me) for me, but my Beretta Nano is right on.

For handloaders, there is no notable difference in the price of .357 Magnum ammo and .38 Special ammo.
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  #57  
Old 03-27-2018, 08:15 PM
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Question was sincere.

Do you recommend buying a semi as the first handgun-to be used for personal protection- for the average civilian ?
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  #58  
Old 03-28-2018, 02:14 AM
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fiasconova, I can only say that I cannot shoot the little 9MM revolvers as accurately as I can shoot full size 9MM pistols. I can't say it's the revolver's fault. They may be just as accurate as the average full size pistol in a better shooter's hands.....
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  #59  
Old 03-28-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn View Post
Question was sincere.

Do you recommend buying a semi as the first handgun-to be used for personal protection- for the average civilian ?
Thanks for replying.

Honestly, based on my experiences taking first-timers to the range for thirty years now (sheesh, it's been over 30 years since I got my instructor's cert - man, I'm old), I'd say that it depends on the individual. There's no reason a person shouldn't use a semiauto . . . and I've introduced many men and women (I'm immediately thinking of a beloved colleague and a beloved neighbor) to guns who preferred them. I've also introduced many men and women (my wife, for instance) to guns who preferred revolvers.

It's just going to depend on individual preference and individual need. I hear people explaining their preference for semiautos by saying that revolvers are slow to load, seem to transmit more recoil and seem to be more difficult to shoot accurately. I hear people explaining their preference for revolvers by saying they prefer the simplicity of the action, the triggers, the ease of ensuring the gun is safe/secure. One woman's absurdly long fingernails prevented her from being able to use a semiauto efficiently - but that's what she preferred. Some carry methods seem to be easier with a semiauto (the full-figured gal who carries AIWB beneath a blouse), and others a revolver (the myriad dudes I know with a J-frame in their front pocket right now) - but that's just on average (I know a guy who carried a SIG-Sauer P220 in his pants pocket).

I personally like both, but find myself carrying a semiauto somewhat more often.
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  #60  
Old 03-28-2018, 10:11 PM
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wc, with regard to the -use- of a .357 snub in a civilian self defense shooting; I am of the opinion that a prosecutor would have little difficulty in convincing a jury that one who used this gun/caliber was reckless for the reasons anyone who has shot this platform with the magnum ammo is aware of.

The platform that is chosen, the caliber of the handgun and the amount of ammo that one has available show intent-mindset, I am convinced of this.

Should you prefer the .357 then good for you-I think you're nuts and really hope that you don't need that second shot especially if it is a very quickly needed second shot.

The Mrs. left today with her .22 wmr and there is no doubt in my mind that she has all the bases covered.

I fully support the right of anyone to legally carry any gun they wish regardless of how over gunned and over ammo capacity I think they are.

Remember 'we' will require less than 2 at about arms length away and that is IF simply showing the wheelie doesn't take care of the problem.
You make a lot of statements without any supporting evidence.
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  #61  
Old 03-29-2018, 05:36 PM
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Erich, I will cede that you are vastly more experienced than I; it is my contention that civilians encounter a vastly different situation in a hand gun self defense situation than a LEO.

The oft cited average distance of 21' was stated by the FBI for either law enforcement gun fights/gun battles which is far far greater than what civilians can expect.

We civilians can expect: that should a shot/s be fired (in the vast majority of situations showing the gun will end the the threat) the number of rounds will be far less than any wheel full, that the distance will be very very close, either touching distance or just outside touching distance, and that the incident will be over in just a few seconds.

Thoughts appreciated.
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  #62  
Old 03-30-2018, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gsn View Post
Erich, I will cede that you are vastly more experienced than I; it is my contention that civilians encounter a vastly different situation in a hand gun self defense situation than a LEO.

The oft cited average distance of 21' was stated by the FBI for either law enforcement gun fights/gun battles which is far far greater than what civilians can expect.

We civilians can expect: that should a shot/s be fired (in the vast majority of situations showing the gun will end the the threat) the number of rounds will be far less than any wheel full, that the distance will be very very close, either touching distance or just outside touching distance, and that the incident will be over in just a few seconds.

Thoughts appreciated.
I really appreciate folks who post their experiences, whether or not they are highly experienced or novices, many times I learn something. I don't get much from folks who just regurgitate things they've seen in gun mags, internet videos or statistics from official websites.
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  #63  
Old 04-02-2018, 08:46 AM
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So the U.S. civilian population face the same threats under the same situations as the Police and thus require the same tools ?
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  #64  
Old 04-02-2018, 09:12 AM
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Revolver vs. Auto
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  #65  
Old 04-02-2018, 09:41 AM
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8 rounds of the hottest .22 lr anyone

At about arms length away
Having chronographed. 22 long rifle loads of standard, high, super and hyper velocity, the faster rounds create noise and flash, but proportionally less velocity out of a snubbie. I would therefore use the heaviest standard velocity lead round that will stabilize out of your particular gun. All but one of mine will stabilize the 60 grain Aguila SSS.
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  #66  
Old 04-02-2018, 05:17 PM
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Says most semi autos are easier to shoot well, but compares a 7.5" long 4.5" barrel 30 ounce Commander to a 5.5" long 1.875" barrel 22 ounce J frame, uh huh.

Then goes on to list all the reasons revolvers are more practical for civilians, more tolerant of neglect, easier to carry and conceal, not ammo dependent, fire contact, ECQ or from pocket, simpler.
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  #67  
Old 04-02-2018, 08:52 PM
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Big brother, .40S&W.

(Edit: Senility has set in, meant to put this in CA 9mm thread. Oh well, if you can't laugh at yourself, who can you laugh at?)
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  #68  
Old 04-04-2018, 07:59 AM
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sure hope that the kid at Smith wakes up soon
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  #69  
Old 04-08-2018, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
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From a snub the 9mm gives at least .357 energy at about half the cost and probably half the recoil, blast/flame with fewer legal implications from what I can discover.

GSN:

The issue I keep seeing from you is "legal implications"

The Legal Implications of shooting someone are IDENTICAL regardless of caliber.

However, in the case of civil court possibly your choice of gun might come into play however a 38 special versus a 357 magnum... Come on... Both are revolvers. If your shot placement is good and not 'downrange' I don't see the difference in legal implications for any gun.
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  #70  
Old 04-12-2018, 09:38 AM
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practical-does distance make a difference?
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  #71  
Old 04-27-2018, 10:21 AM
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My dealer showed me a SP101 9mm two days ago, and it looks pretty good.

I have a 4" Blackhawk Convertable that I like. However, beyond 10 yards the .38 & .357 clearly outshine the 9mm in accuracy. The "internet" says it's because the gun was designed for .38 & .357.

If I buy the SP101, should I expect it to shoot as well as a J-Frame .38 Special at say 15-20 yards?
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  #72  
Old 04-27-2018, 11:20 AM
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Nice pick up. It's too bad Sturm Ruger doesn't still make this one:





It is a Speed Six with 2 3/4" barrel in 9mm. Here it is with Pachmayr compac grips:

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  #73  
Old 04-27-2018, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Loyaljeeper View Post
I canít confirm that it can be fired without moonclips but when a revolver can it is because the case spaces off the case mouth.
For some reason, I want to say it needs them to function. I made a thread about this one a few weeks ago, I was comparing it to the Charter Arms Pitbull, which does not use moon clips.

Either way...one way or another, I'm going to get my hands on a 9mm SP101 sooner or later...
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  #74  
Old 04-27-2018, 04:49 PM
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If I buy the SP101, should I expect it to shoot as well as a J-Frame .38 Special at say 15-20 yards?
Better, in my hands. The length of pull suits my hands better than on a J. Don't know how it would fit you, but out of a Ransom Rest, I'd suspect the classes of guns would be essentially identical in accuracy.
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