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Old 04-01-2018, 07:13 PM
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I went to a local gun show for the purpose of buying a Rock Island Armory officer size 1911 that I'd seen there at the last show. On my way to the vendors table I spotted this ATI "Titan" (their officer size model), and decided I needed to do a comparison. The ATI won out!

It has a dovetailed white dot front sight (RIA does not)
It has a novak rear sight (RIA does not)
It has better grip panels, a skeletonized trigger, and I'm told that they are made on the same equipment. And finally...it cost $90 less!!!

Picked up a couple of Wilson combat mags and some ammo for next weeks shooting session.
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Old 04-01-2018, 07:16 PM
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Nice looking 1911!
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Old 04-01-2018, 08:56 PM
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Hard to believe that such a small chunk of ''artillerie'' can launch such a large chunk of lead!
Congrats for your purchase!
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:25 PM
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Nice score,congrats.
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Old 04-03-2018, 05:44 PM
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Good choice IMHO. Friend has the compact RIA with those really tiny sights. He would like to have more usable sights.
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Old 04-03-2018, 06:05 PM
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RIA makes two versions of the Officer's. My RIA is identical to your ATI, except for the brand name.
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock185 View Post
Good choice IMHO. Friend has the compact RIA with those really tiny sights. He would like to have more usable sights.
The sights were kinda the "selling point" because I would have to mill the RIA for a dovetailed front sight, and that would have added even more cost. Now, all I have to do is decide which night sights I want to use and have them installed.

If I had bought the RIA the grip panels would have been replaced, but these I like just fine. The gun feels sooo good in hand. I'm really looking forward to shooting it this weekend!
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Old 04-04-2018, 08:36 AM
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ATI 1911's are made by Shooters arms mfg. in the Philippines. A competitor to Armscor, RIA's parent company. Both make a very good 1911 that you hear very little to complain about.
RIA makes a double stack 9mm 1911 in government and commander size. First time I get to handle one I think I'm going to be in trouble with the wife.
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Old 04-04-2018, 07:29 PM
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I went to the range for an hour today. Got to put 170 rounds through it: 100 Fiochi FMJ, 50 Federal 230gr +p HST & 20 Hornady Critical Defense.

I only shot out to 10 yards, but it was very accurate at that distance. It doesn't seem to like +P ammo. I had a few ftf and a stovepipe. The Critical Defense did better but wasn't perfect either. Next trip I will try two different JHP's and a different fmj.

I'm looking forward to finding what rounds perform best in this gun. It's a pleasure to shoot.
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Old 04-04-2018, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
I went to the range for an hour today. Got to put 170 rounds through it: 100 Fiochi FMJ, 50 Federal 147gr +p HST & 20 Hornady Critical Defense.

I only shot out to 10 yards, but it was very accurate at that distance. It doesn't seem to like +P ammo. I had a few ftf and a stovepipe. The Critical Defense did better but wasn't perfect either. Next trip I will try two different JHP's and a different fmj.

I'm looking forward to finding what rounds perform best in this gun. It's a pleasure to shoot.
Hmm. Either it does not like the gaping maw of the 147gr JHP ammo or it is under sprung.
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Old 04-04-2018, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
I went to the range for an hour today. Got to put 170 rounds through it: 100 Fiochi FMJ, 50 Federal 147gr +p HST & 20 Hornady Critical Defense.

I only shot out to 10 yards, but it was very accurate at that distance. It doesn't seem to like +P ammo. I had a few ftf and a stovepipe. The Critical Defense did better but wasn't perfect either. Next trip I will try two different JHP's and a different fmj.

I'm looking forward to finding what rounds perform best in this gun. It's a pleasure to shoot.
You can't go wrong with 230gr hardball.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:26 PM
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I've got a couple of RIA's and my dad has that same ATI Titan. They definitely aren't the same. I love my Rocks, but the trigger guards are not spec, they just look a little off, always have. The ATI even with it's undercut has the correct "Colt" profile. Both companies are making good 1911's, but the ATI's look better in my opinion. That said, my 2011 in 10mm with the full length rail looks pretty sweet.
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Old 04-04-2018, 11:35 PM
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You can't go wrong with 230gr hardball.
I agree with Ken, I'd run some good ole hardball before worrying about the hollow point stuff.
Fine looking pistol.
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Old 04-05-2018, 06:51 AM
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Yes, that Titan is nice looking. About 2 months ago I bought the ATI military model 1911 and I've been pleasantly surprised with it. I've run nothing but reloads through mine with 230 hardball and I've run around 600 rounds through it since new. Last time out with it I had a total of 1 FTF (out of 200 rounds), which actually was a failure to chamber with the extractor engaged. That could have been the fault of the round itself and not a real misfeed. And it's surprisingly accurate too and hits point of aim. Reloading makes it fairly cheap to shoot also, around 18 cents a round using the Zero 230 grain FMJ bullets. I think ATI is selling a lot of gun for the money it sells for.
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Old 04-05-2018, 07:47 AM
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Without 100% reliability, accuracy means absolutely nothing.

When they first came out I bought a Colt Officer's Model. It would not function reliably. Then I learned that this is a common problem with short 45s. Then I learned the same regarding short 9mms.

I sold the Colt with no regrets. My two full-sized Colts are reliable.

I have two S&W M457's and an old 469 that are completely reliable.

Again, "accuracy" is of very little concern to me, but I won't have a gun that is not completely relaible

BTW "FTF" can mean at least three different things. Please spell it out for clarity.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:02 PM
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Hmm. Either it does not like the gaping maw of the 147gr JHP ammo or it is under sprung.
Turns out it WAS under sprung! I did some research and found out that the recoil spring assembly is commonly an issue. I replaced it with a Kimber ultra carry II recoil spring and took it to the range today.

I shot 118 rounds of a mixture of 230gr ball ammo, Winchester "Defend" JHP, American Handgunner JHP and a box of hand loads purchased at the range. The gun performed flawlessly except for (1)squib round and (1)stove pipe - BOTH with the reloads. I was happy the squib didn't get caught in my barrel, and I've decided NOT TO USE HAND LOADS ANYMORE in ANY of my guns!

I am very happy with this purchase, but I want to put another 300-400 "failure-free" rounds through it before I will consider it reliable and worked in.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:20 PM
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I am not aware of a 147gr .45acp load.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Protected One View Post
I went to the range for an hour today. Got to put 170 rounds through it: 100 Fiochi FMJ, 50 Federal 147gr +p HST & 20 Hornady Critical Defense.

I only shot out to 10 yards, but it was very accurate at that distance. It doesn't seem to like +P ammo. I had a few ftf and a stovepipe. The Critical Defense did better but wasn't perfect either. Next trip I will try two different JHP's and a different fmj.

I'm looking forward to finding what rounds perform best in this gun. It's a pleasure to shoot.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:23 PM
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I am not aware of a 147gr .45acp load.
Correction: It was the Federal HST 230gr JHP, as pictured in my original post.
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Old 04-14-2018, 11:55 PM
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I recently picked up the 9mm ATI Commander 1911. Look forward to taking it to the range.
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Old 04-15-2018, 01:14 AM
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I have the ATI FX45 Military. It is a wonderful shooter, hits the part of the paper I aim at, and haven't had any failures. Best 4
$400 I ever spent, gun wise! That price included an extra mag and the background check. The grips were maybe 3/8 - 1/4 inch too wide. Bought a new set and that's all I need to spend on it. Not an every day carry, but a good vehicle pistol. Have fun!
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:09 PM
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I have the ATI FX45 Military. It is a wonderful shooter, hits the part of the paper I aim at, and haven't had any failures. Best 4
$400 I ever spent, gun wise! That price included an extra mag and the background check. The grips were maybe 3/8 - 1/4 inch too wide. Bought a new set and that's all I need to spend on it. Not an every day carry, but a good vehicle pistol. Have fun!
Do you say it's not an everyday carry because something else better meets the need, or because you don't trust it?
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:32 PM
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Nice looking 1911. I have heard good things about the ATI Philippine import. My full size RIA 1911 is a great shooter, especially for the money spent. The problem with these shorty 1911's is higher slide velocity, and less time for an empty to eject, and a fresh round to feed. A strong magazine spring, along with a stronger recoil spring usually makes the difference in reliability. The recoil spring in these short 1911's does not last as long as a full size will, and some manufacturers recommend replacement every 600 rounds or so. From what I have read, dual recoil spring set ups in these short 1911's seem to work better than single spring set ups.

I replaced the recoil spring in my Kimber Ultra Carry at about 600 rounds, and have a total of about 1000 thru it now with complete reliability. I would like to leave the spring in, and see how many rounds before I started having issues, but I carry this gun often, so need reliability.

I read Wilson Custom recommends lighter weight bullets in a 3 inch 1911 for improved reliability, but I have mostly used various 230 grain loads with no reliability issues in mine.

Larry
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:47 PM
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Protected One.
Give it a few hundred rounds before judging reliability or changing things around. My last new 1911 did not function reliably until it was well broken in.
Nice gun for sure. Filipino workmanship is mostly excellent.
Jim
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:53 PM
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I gotta tell you I have looked at these and the fit is superb. I thought about buying one and putting an Ed Brown and bushing in it just cuz. But, I dont need another 1911.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:06 PM
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Nice looking 1911. I have heard good things about the ATI Philippine import. My full size RIA 1911 is a great shooter, especially for the money spent. The problem with these shorty 1911's is higher slide velocity, and less time for an empty to eject, and a fresh round to feed. A strong magazine spring, along with a stronger recoil spring usually makes the difference in reliability. The recoil spring in these short 1911's does not last as long as a full size will, and some manufacturers recommend replacement every 600 rounds or so. From what I have read, dual recoil spring set ups in these short 1911's seem to work better than single spring set ups.

I replaced the recoil spring in my Kimber Ultra Carry at about 600 rounds, and have a total of about 1000 thru it now with complete reliability. I would like to leave the spring in, and see how many rounds before I started having issues, but I carry this gun often, so need reliability.

I read Wilson Custom recommends lighter weight bullets in a 3 inch 1911 for improved reliability, but I have mostly used various 230 grain loads with no reliability issues in mine.

Larry
Your comments are right in line with what I was experiencing during my initial shooting with the gun; slide speed was way off for proper feeding and ejections. A youtube video pointed me in the direction of the Kimber Ultra Carry II recoil spring assembly, which, as YOU know is a dual-spring system. So far, it seems to have solved the problem, but I'm going to do a lot more shooting with it before declaring it reliable.

I'm surprised at the recommendation to change the recoil spring every 600 rounds. That's only about 4-6 months worth of shooting before incurring an additional $55 expense for the spring. Since this is not a carry gun I think I'm going to conduct that little experiment for BOTH of us and see how many rounds it last before problems. Hopefully it will last AT LEAST 1000 ROUNDS...2000 would be even better! I'll keep you posted.

Thanks for the (Wilson) tip on using lighter ammunition. I'll give it a try.

Even with spending another $55 for the recoil spring I consider this gun a steal for the $369 I paid. The fit and finish are beautiful, and I couldn't ask for more from an "entry level" 1911.
Going back to the range this weekend.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:36 PM
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I have owned a fair number of 45 autos, and the only one I ever bothered with as far as changing springs was the first one (a Colt Government Model Series 70). I had read a lot of information (and now find it on line too) about needing to do this, but since have learned that it is a bad idea. I had (should have kept) a Colt 1911 GI that was made in the 1920s (IIRC), As far as I know, it still had all the original springs, and it never failed to function 100%.

The problem is not the springs. I never change them. I never change them because they do not wear out.

I have never been satisfied with Government Model pistols with less than 5" barrels. None of them worked reliably in my experience. I learned a long time ago to stick with ammo loaded with 230 grain bullets (any type or shape, as long as they feed reliably). I generally do not expect much bullet expansion from a 45 ACP anyway, especially when the barrel is less than 5" long.

There is a very delicate balancing act with short barreled Government Model pistols regarding slide AND frame mass, bullet mass, the power and pressure of the ammo, The way the shooter grips the pistol, and of course, recoil spring weight and construction (assuming the pistol chamber, throat, feed ramp, etc. are within spec.). If any of these are not perfect you have a non-reliable pistol.

For some reason, the shorter S&W autos do not have this problem. If you leave the factory springs in them, they are reliable. I offer no explanation, but only relate my 35 years of experience shooting 45 autos of various kinds.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:30 PM
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I have owned a fair number of 45 autos, and the only one I ever bothered with as far as changing springs was the first one (a Colt Government Model Series 70). I had read a lot of information (and now find it on line too) about needing to do this, but since have learned that it is a bad idea. I had (should have kept) a Colt 1911 GI that was made in the 1920s (IIRC), As far as I know, it still had all the original springs, and it never failed to function 100%.

The problem is not the springs. I never change them. I never change them because they do not wear out.

I have never been satisfied with Government Model pistols with less than 5" barrels. None of them worked reliably in my experience. I learned a long time ago to stick with ammo loaded with 230 grain bullets (any type or shape, as long as they feed reliably). I generally do not expect much bullet expansion from a 45 ACP anyway, especially when the barrel is less than 5" long.

There is a very delicate balancing act with short barreled Government Model pistols regarding slide AND frame mass, bullet mass, the power and pressure of the ammo, The way the shooter grips the pistol, and of course, recoil spring weight and construction (assuming the pistol chamber, throat, feed ramp, etc. are within spec.). If any of these are not perfect you have a non-reliable pistol.

For some reason, the shorter S&W autos do not have this problem. If you leave the factory springs in them, they are reliable. I offer no explanation, but only relate my 35 years of experience shooting 45 autos of various kinds.
There are thousands of people (if not more) that have reliable government model 1911's with less than 5" barrels. So someone has found a way to either modify them or been fortunate in their "luck of the draw".

I can't speak for everyone but I can say for a fact that changing the spring in mine made all the difference in the world. The stiffer spring appears to be EXACTLY what it needed.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:22 AM
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I agree, and your post supports my contention about the careful balancing act. I'm glad you got it working.
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Old 04-28-2018, 08:40 PM
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I shot another 50 rounds of hardball today, without a single failure of any type! More evidence that the recoil spring was the culprit. Very accurate and I'm enjoying shooting it.
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Old 04-29-2018, 09:45 AM
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I bought a Rock Island 4.25" GI commander about a year ago brand new for under $345 shipped. The gun is very accurate, has a great trigger and controls, and has been 100% reliable with 500 rounds of every kind of ammo. I put some $18 checkered walnut grips on it and am thinking about better sights, I love fiber optic sights at my age but I hate to spoil the "GI" looks.
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Old 04-29-2018, 01:26 PM
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I have not owned either brand so take my commentary as FWIW... I have heard nothing but good things on both mfg's side for a budget 1911. Would I expect it to be an Ed Brown, no. Hence the price difference. Good functional gun for self defense or just plinking at the range from what I hear by owners.
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Last edited by TheHobbyist; 04-29-2018 at 01:26 PM. Reason: Plinking not pinking...typo
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Old 04-29-2018, 02:25 PM
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I bought a Rock Island 4.25" GI commander about a year ago brand new for under $345 shipped. The gun is very accurate, has a great trigger and controls, and has been 100% reliable with 500 rounds of every kind of ammo. I put some $18 checkered walnut grips on it and am thinking about better sights, I love fiber optic sights at my age but I hate to spoil the "GI" looks.
$345 is an OUTSTANDING price for that gun!
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Old 08-14-2018, 08:18 PM
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Well, I have put 725 rounds through the gun now, and since installing a stronger recoil spring the last 550 have been problem free!

I'm thinking after another 75 rounds I may carry this from time to time.
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Old 08-14-2018, 09:55 PM
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Do you say it's not an everyday carry because something else better meets the need, or because you don't trust it?
The pistol is too heavy for me to carry concealed. (OK, I'm a wimp!) Since then, I gave it to my son. He really likes it!
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Old 08-15-2018, 11:19 AM
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You may have been looking at the wrong model of RIA. This one is in 9mm, (but the grips are aftermarket).
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:15 PM
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You may have been looking at the wrong model of RIA. This one is in 9mm, (but the grips are aftermarket).
Nah. I specifically wanted a .45acp.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:24 PM
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You may have been looking at the wrong model of RIA. This one is in 9mm, (but the grips are aftermarket).
Nah. I specifically wanted a .45acp.
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Old 08-16-2018, 09:42 AM
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That RIA is also available in 45 and (I believe) 22TCM.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:12 PM
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Got my Titan 2 weeks ago.
First 100 rounds of 230gr ball, had the last round of first mag hang up on on feeding, and 2 lock open fails on last round.
Very happy with results so far. Haven't changed the recoil assm. yet, but have a Kimber for backup just in case.
I did put on new Pachmayr grips, Wilson Combat extended mag and slide release and a strip of sandpaper grip tape on front strap to make everything work to my liking.
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