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Old 04-13-2018, 11:16 PM
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In general, do you like the firearms of today? In general, do you like the firearms of today? In general, do you like the firearms of today? In general, do you like the firearms of today? In general, do you like the firearms of today?  
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In general, no I don't like the newer ones. I bought a few, a S&W Pro Model 60, had to send it back as the POA and POI were in different zip codes. They fixed it, "adjusted the barrel". A Dan Wesson PM7, a good 1911A1, I like that one. A CZ .40 S&W RAMI, my CCW. I really like this one, accurate and reliable over 500 rounds no issues factory or hand loads. I don't like the Glock's, M&P, XD, and polymer pistols. I have shot them but not for me.
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Old 04-13-2018, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM View Post
I like Stainless!
Dont really like to carry those Blue Beauties out in the wild world!
Especially when I have a Stainless Stand in ready to go.
Same feelings on the grips.
Hate to expose an older, expensive and beautiful set to the wilds.
So my Go To Guns all have after market usually rubber grips.
I HAVE TO ROLL WITH THE PILGRIM, ON THIS. I HATE TO EXPOSE MY BEAUTIFUL OLDER GUNS TO THE ELEMENTS, AND THE RIGORS OF THE HUNTING ENVIRONMENT---IF THERE IS A VIABLE ALTERNATIVE.....

I BUY NOTHING BUT STAINLESS REVOLVERS, AND I LOVE MY BUSHMASTER AR RIFLES, AND MY MOSSBERG PUMP SHOTGUN. IN BOLT ACTION RIFLES, I FAVOR THE SAVAGE TACTICAL STYLE RIFLES WITH ACCU-TRIGGERS......
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:45 AM
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I do prefer older S&W handguns, 1930-1960, because there is real quality in these handguns and NO LOCKS!! I remember butter smooth actions and the kind of factory finish that takes your breath away. This type of quality will cost several thousands of dollars. Yeah, I do miss the good old days.
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Old 04-14-2018, 01:11 AM
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Last weekend I held an I-frame .32 in my hand for the very first time.
It was like a piece of jewelry. So much smaller than my Model 60.
I've overlooked them in the past but I picked this one up and held it.

What I know about an I-frame and a .32 you could engrave on the head of a pin. But I felt myself getting that feeling I get right before I buy a "new" old gun. Man, it was beautiful.

I handed it back to the owner and ran, not walked, away as quickly as I could.

Tomorrow I'm going over to a pal's place to shoot my son-in-laws Beretta 92. We tore it down, cleaned and lubed it earlier this evening. Yeah, it is a beautiful pistol. The fit and finish is great and how can you argue with 16 rounds of 9mm? I had never held one before.

But guess what gun I had on my mind?
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:46 AM
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Wow, this has been an interesting post. It is great to hear the different opinions, and that is all there is here. There is no right or wrong, although I think the love for classic design, blued steel, craftsmanship and wood seems to be winning out.

What have I gotten from this? Well, in all honesty I do have a new pistol that I want to look at. A Springfield armory Range Officer. I like the 45acp. I see a confidence in Springfields and a new firearm.

My pistols range from a 1927SAA in 45 Colt to a 1992 M29 Classic DX. I do have one Glock 36. As for rifles, a Ruger 77 I bought when they first came out, a couple Browning Safaris, and a Sako Mauser built in 1954. Mostly older stuff. I have a 1968 Model 10-5, 4" on its' way to my FFL now. It will be there when I get home from Vacation. I still want a 19, 27 and 28. I have a 1968 17-3. Along with the Range officer, that will about do it for me.

I do like and have made some creations. For example , back in 1979. I took a 15-3 combat masterpiece, and had a 6", 1.2" dia Douglas premium bbl installed with a full length Bomar rib, and the action polished out to a mirror finish, along with a coil spring. Slickest action I have ever seen. Not to mention accuracy. Just a paper puncher.

I did a custom conversion of a 700Bdl 30-06, to a superlight all day carry gun for hunting, and I have a 45 made from a Para frame, Ithica slide, and a Wilson BBl with Bomar sights. Again a paper puncher.



I am kind of done with conversions now and just want to focus on a few nice old pieces from S&W.

Shotguns are another world, but nothing newer than 1991, nothing adjustable, and no screw in chokes.

Thanks for the great input......Pete
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:01 AM
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Default In general, do you like the firearms of today?

It speaks volumes that of all the guns I added to the collection in the last 12 months, all were all-metal (zero modern plastic wonder guns) and all except two of them (both all-metal CZ's) were used. The oldest guns added were from the 50's. The newest of the used guns added were at least 10-15 years old.

The firearms of today? Forget about plastic. I've done my plastic thing and have no use for "Bic lighter" guns anymore.

What "firearms of today" might I actually want to purchase? I like the Sig P227, in particular the SAS Gen 2 version. And not sure if it counts, but if/when those Turkish Hi-Power clones become available in stainless steel (sorry, no Cerakote for moi!), I'll probably try to obtain one of them.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:36 AM
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I just like guns. They all have their place and purpose . . .
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:44 AM
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The short answer.

No.
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Old 04-14-2018, 12:38 PM
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I read lots of comments about the good old guns from the past yet I never really see anyone talk about the truly fantastic guns from those old days. Sure I like the looks of walnut and blued steel. I always have. But the guns I see mentioned are far from the really good looking stuff I've seen.

I grew up with a trap range literally in my back yard. It was pretty much the only trap range within 100 miles in any direction too. People came from cities and towns far and wide to shoot there. Some of them brought their really nice shotguns (and ridiculously expensive). They didn't shoot them. They brought them to show them off and they left them lying on the kitchen table in my house while they shot cheaper guns at clays.

I spent a lot of my time drooling over those beauties. These were Italian, British and Spanish made shotguns and stuff from other European countries also. They cost between $2000-$3000 and that was in the late 50's and early 60's. They would cost $20 grand or more today. At least. I've seen some of those old shotguns in the gun library section of Cabela's once in a while. Some are over $30,000. I saw one that was $35,000.

If you want to talk beautiful guns I've never seen anything that compares except maybe a Browning Hi-Power with custom engraving and an occasional Schuetzen rifle. And I've never really seen either of those that truly compared to those Italian beauties.

Quality wood costs money. And I hate to say it but the real quality stuff isn't available on 99% of the guns I've mentioned here. Sorry but that's what I've seen.

As for which I prefer I'm one of those guys who likes almost every gun he sees. But I saw some real pieces of junk in the 60's too. El cheapo .25's, derringers that would almost certainly blow your hand off if you fired them or at least break a few bones, and shotguns that were held together with Elmer's glue and baling wire (seemed that way anyhow). It wasn't all great way back when. Same as today some guns are great and others not so much.

I love my modern rifles. They do the job in a ridiculously fantastic way. You just couldn't go into a gun shop and buy a lot of rifles that would shoot 5" groups at 500 yards way back when. You were lucky to get guns that shot those groups at 100 yards. And some of those guns weren't cheap. Like a Holland and Holland rifle. They would kill an elephant but it's not hard to hit an elephant. You'd have a hard time killing a squirrel.

There were cheap guns back then that didn't have walnut, were single shot, and had what seemed to be cheap bluing (they actually held up well though) that could be bought for not much at all. And they were very accurate and reliable. But no one ever talks about those guns because they didn't look great. But the people I knew mostly had those guns. The person that owned a Winchester was considered well to do. You could buy a Stevens rifle that would shoot just as well but didn't look nearly as good.

I think we all remember the guns that have survived until today and are still highly valued. I still have a Stevens from the 50's that will shoot with anything I own now. But it has a birch stock on it I think. I don't even know for sure. I just know it isn't walnut. We tend to glamorize the past when the truth is the common gun wasn't much better looking then than it is now. And then as well as now you could buy stuff to get the job done without spending a fortune. And I always cared more about function than I did beauty mainly because I couldn't afford the beautiful stuff anyway and that's still true when I think about those old Italian shotguns.

I thought I would tack on an example of the kind of shotgun I used to see. I saw some that looked as good as this Italian made Bertuzzi. It's listed for $145,500 on Armslist.


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Old 04-14-2018, 03:02 PM
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Old ones, new ones, in between ones; I like them all. Well, mostly - I'm not fond of Glocks.
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:35 PM
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The firearms themselves? No. Most are cheaply made with little to no QC. My last two brand new guns are an Adams Arms AR10 that required a new BHO to lock the mag to the rear, and a Ruger American .450 with a stock that probably cost $5 to make.

Now, accessories and optics are way ahead of what we've seen in the past for a similar inflation-adjusted cost.

I am aware that cheap guns of questionable quality are nothing new, but it's bad when S&W, Ruger, Remington, etc are in that category.
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:48 PM
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I do not like plastic, MIM, ILs I prefer the polished blue finish of earlier guns, obviously today's custom 1911 s are the exception

life is too short to spend it with an ugly gun.
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Old 04-14-2018, 04:59 PM
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I like my pistols like this which is custom

and my rifles like this
Savage Model 114 with a great factory stock

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Old 04-14-2018, 06:37 PM
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In general , NO . In some rather rare cases , yes . I like my new .44 Special Flattop Ruger Blackhawk , I would like it even better if it was built like my 1955 Blackhawk . I like a half cock notch and do not care for the loading gate setup on the newer Rugers .

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Old 04-14-2018, 08:08 PM
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Quote:
and my rifles like this
Savage Model 114 with a great factory stock
IMO Savage makes some great guns these days including blued and wood and stainless and plastic. They make some cheaper guns too but that one you posted is beautiful.

Lots of companies make decent guns now IMO. CZ, Sako, Tikka, and a long list of others are still making great guns that don't cost any more to buy than the beautiful guns of the old days did when you adjust for inflation.

I still say the truly gorgeous stuff rarely gets mentioned here though.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:11 PM
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Other than 1911s, there’s not many new handguns that interest me.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:27 PM
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I do not like the Tupperware guns. Stainless is ok for certain applications.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:39 PM
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My guns date from 1844 (a 1842 Harpers Ferry musket) to 2017 ( a Remington bolt M770 in .30-06. Like most here, I prefer the older guns made from carbon steel and walnut. But, it is nice to be able to afford a new .30-06 without taking out a bank loan.

I bought the Remington because I haven't had a .30-06 for a number of years. I have dies, brass and a fair amount of loaded ammo.
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Old 04-14-2018, 10:44 PM
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Plastic is for knobs .
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Old 04-15-2018, 02:02 PM
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Honestly, no. Don't get me wrong, modern firearms are excellent tools which obviously have surpassed classic firearms, but that's just it, they're tools, and as such, very little attention to detail is devoted towards the design of tools to give them any sort of distinctive style or aesthetic appeal because in all honesty, such things are superfluous towards their intended purpose.
However, having grown up during a time in which firearms manufacturers devoted time and effort into the design of their firearms to give them at least a touch of style, not to mention my exposure to firearms from long before my time in an era in which firearms manufacturers clearly put a lot of effort into the design of their firearms from an aesthetic standpoint because they were most often open carried and therefore their appearance was more important since it was a part of your everyday attire, I obviously prefer the look of older firearms.

Personally, my all-time favorite firearms are the Walther PPK/S and Smith & Wesson Model 29, and while there are obviously modern firearms which have improved on these designs, nothing can match their raw aesthetic appeal in my opinion, and even when the chips are down, I would trust my life to either.
In fact, in spite of all the superior options available today as far as .380 pistols go, my EDC is a Smith & Wesson manufactured PPK/S. Sure, it's awfully big and heavy compared to modern .380 pistols, but I like the size since it's big enough to get a full grip on and the weight isn't generally enough to make it feel cumbersome, so it makes no difference to me. Maybe someday I'll replace it with something smaller and lighter, (namely if Walther ever makes their own lightweight .380 pocket pistol with similar aesthetics) but for right now I'm satisfied with the PPK/S.
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Old 04-17-2018, 12:41 AM
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I like my 1911's custom also as this Norinco was a full custom built by Ikey Starks in Denver
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Old 04-17-2018, 01:12 AM
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When I was a little boy my Dad used to take me to his friends gun shop in New Rochelle, NY. I often think of the dark wood and the deep blue/black of the steel on the firearms I saw in the shop. The fit and finish was impeccable and they all seemed a work of art. Im afraid that artistic quality has been lost on the guns produced today, except on the very high end custom shops. The labor costs and environmental issues are partly to blame, bean counters and lawyers probably make up the rest of the problem.
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Old 04-17-2018, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
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When I was a little boy my Dad used to take me to his friends gun shop in New Rochelle, NY..
John Palmieri of John’s Gun and Tackle? He was a great guy, always helpful.
He was killed right in his shop by two guys he was helping out with a question about a scope. He turned his back, they shot him. They found the killers in Puerto Rico.
The neighborhood/city never allowed another gun shop to take it’s place after that.
I bought my first handgun there, a M66, and lived in the city.

Here’s the story:
Gun shop killers arrested in Puerto Rico. - Free Online Library

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Old 04-17-2018, 09:03 AM
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What is a firearm of today? I own two handguns that were made since 2000 and one(Blackhawk) has been made the same for over 40 years.

Walnut and blue? Yeah from the 50’s thru the mid 60’s after that few guns were what I call good finish.

Stainless a necessity and a product of “modern” gun making.

Plastic a last ditch attempt by gun manufacturers to stay in business, but practical for the current SD crowd.


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Old 04-17-2018, 09:51 PM
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Research proves that we like what was in vogue when we were young especially music, and it goes for guns too. We have an idea of what a gun should look like. Other generations have different ideas. I prefer wood and steel, for many, I suspect that a Glock is what a gun should be.
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Old 04-17-2018, 10:26 PM
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It can't be argued that new firearms are fantastic from the standpoints of accuracy, reliability, and cost.... and I find 90% of today's offerings utterly uninteresting.
In my opinion, since the introduction of the Glock the entire firearms manufacturing community has been involved in a "race to the bottom"; to the cheapest, easiest to manufacture, cheapest to market and sell firearms of all types that they can make. Note the recurrence of the word "cheap". No soul, no pride of ownership, just simple projectile launchers made out of the least expensive materials possible to do the job that have all the panache of a cordless drill.
Fortunately there are lots of old guns out there. UN-fortunately people around here are holding on to them and they rarely come up for sale... which makes my gun shop trips less interesting!
Unintended consequences.

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Old 04-18-2018, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SATX View Post
For me, guns are tools nothing more - so I’ll take a modern firearm every time.
Me too, but I only buy collectable (or potentially collectable) firearms, new or used. My EDC is a collectable, but it will always go bang when needed, I don't care if it gets taken never to be seen again if used, my family's life or my life are far more important. Somebody once told me, you either have a "collection of guns" or a "gun collection", I fall in the latter.
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:23 AM
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In general, I do NOT like today's firearms! I think they are cheaply made, use cheaper metals, less expensive and cheaper production methods, Polymers, Plastics. Aluminums, "printed" wood patterns, composite woods,
laminated woods, cast parts and cheesy instruction manuals, boxes and Magazines.

Once in a "blue moon" a manufacturer will make a firearm that meets my personal standards (yes I am tough to please when it comes to firearms and tools). There are a few examples I can think of off hand. One is a CZ 453 American .22LR made about 10 or 12 years ago (now discontinued). It came with a beautiful solid Walnut stock, ALL steel parts (including the trigger guard) that were forged, a beautifully strong Bolt, a Single Set Target Trigger, excellent instruction manual and impeccable craftsmanship, fit & finish! The whole package was about $550 and I actually bought this over the Kimber Super America I had set out to buy at 3 times the price. CZ has since cheapened up the rifle and now call it the 455 I believe. It's an OK rifle now but not even close to the 453 IMHO.

Another example that comes to mind are the SAA's Colt is currently trickling out of their Factory. They make very little these days, but IMO their SAA Revolvers are the best quality I've ever seen AND they actually work and work very well!!

Other than those two, I can't really think of any firearm I'd purchase new rather than buying a little used vintage example.

BTW, this is NOT restricted to the firearms industry. About the only industry that has stepped up to the plate (that comes to mind quickly) is the American Automobile brands. I really think they make the best cars they have ever made right now and are on a level playing field with ANY foreign made Auto, That's just my personal opinion and I am sure some may feel differently. The best cars I've ever owned in my life have been the American branded cars over the last 13 - 15 years and yes I've owned some expensive foreign cars that always get rave reviews.
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Old 04-18-2018, 10:33 AM
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Looks aside, I like 'em all. It just depends what they are intended for. For practicality and self-defense, it is hard to beat the polymer handgun offerings. The shotguns of today have so many great (user friendly) features, that the old beautiful pieces really can't compete in the userability department. Today's rifles are far more accurate (although not as pretty) as those of past days. I am old enough that I remember when MOA was almost unknown from factory rifles. Today it is pretty common. For precision (bullseye) pistol shooting, the older designs still rule (wood and steel). Today's handguns don't have the pristine accuracy of some of the handguns of the past, but they are intentionally built that way. They are built to be "down and dirty" at relatively short ranges. New shooters have it lucky these days, with such a great variety of guns and accessories. In most practical ways, the new offerings are better for what they are intended to do.
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Old 04-18-2018, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Today's handguns don't have the pristine accuracy of some of the handguns of the past
Sorry but I don't agree. I have a Taurus that will shoot insanely accurate. I have shot empty .45 casings at 20 yards with it and I hit every one I shot at first try. At 25 yards it starts to drift off a small amount. I missed at that distance by about half an inch. The further out the bullet goes the less accurate it is but out to 25 yards it will shoot with any handgun I own including a Sig P220 and a 629 with the 8 3/8" barrel.

Some modern handguns do extremely well at prices that most consider junk gun levels. They aren't junk guns. They are made for a purpose and that purpose isn't to look at. That Taurus is the most comfortable hand gun in my hand that I own. It recoils better than my Sig by a big margin. And it holds more ammo in a smaller package. The truth is the Sig P220 is not what most think of as a traditional gun. It's a more modern design and that gun is simply fantastic out to about 50 yards when it comes to accuracy.
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Old 04-18-2018, 01:19 PM
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I don't own any older guns,so yes is my answer.
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:10 PM
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Sorry but I don't agree. I have a Taurus that will shoot insanely accurate. I have shot empty .45 casings at 20 yards with it and I hit every one I shot at first try. At 25 yards it starts to drift off a small amount. I missed at that distance by about half an inch. The further out the bullet goes the less accurate it is but out to 25 yards it will shoot with any handgun I own including a Sig P220 and a 629 with the 8 3/8" barrel.

Some modern handguns do extremely well at prices that most consider junk gun levels. They aren't junk guns. They are made for a purpose and that purpose isn't to look at. That Taurus is the most comfortable hand gun in my hand that I own. It recoils better than my Sig by a big margin. And it holds more ammo in a smaller package. The truth is the Sig P220 is not what most think of as a traditional gun. It's a more modern design and that gun is simply fantastic out to about 50 yards when it comes to accuracy.
Actually the Sig P220 has been around for quite some time and certainly before C&C machining was common in the firearm's industry. Being metal, it is traditional. Glad you think your Taurus (which model?) is more accurate than your S&W 629 with 8 3/8" barrel. My S&W 629-3 with 5" barrel may be the most accurate factory centerfire production handgun that I own. That being said, since I reload, I would never consider using .45 spent brass for targets!
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Old 04-18-2018, 07:04 PM
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Actually the Sig P220 has been around for quite some time and certainly before C&C machining was common in the firearm's industry. Being metal, it is traditional. Glad you think your Taurus (which model?) is more accurate than your S&W 629 with 8 3/8" barrel. My S&W 629-3 with 5" barrel may be the most accurate factory centerfire production handgun that I own.
I know the P220 is all metal (real metal). I was thinking it hasn't been around as long as the 1911 or S&W revolvers etc.. Compared to those it's a relative newcomer.

BTW I never said the Taurus was more accurate than my 629. I said it was "as accurate" and it is out to about 25 yards. But I bounce a gallon jug around all day with my 629 at 175 yards. Probably in the hands of a better shooter it would shoot accurate farther than that. It's plenty accurate. But you have to admit shooting .45 casings at 20 yards is pretty accurate. What I really like about the Taurus is the way I can empty a mag into a 8" target at 20 yards in 10 seconds. It's a PT-145 BTW - I thought I mentioned that but obviously I didn't - I meant to put that in my post.
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Old 04-18-2018, 08:56 PM
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I know the P220 is all metal (real metal). I was thinking it hasn't been around as long as the 1911 or S&W revolvers etc.. Compared to those it's a relative newcomer.
In today's fast-moving modern age, when a new plastic handgun design has an average lifespan of 5 years or less before it is discontinued and replaced with something newer, a gun designed in the early 70's and first manufactured in 1975 (like the Sig P220) is damn near an antique.

But I like antiques. And the more metal, the better.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:01 PM
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.....but composites and polymers make useful weapons.
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Old 04-18-2018, 09:30 PM
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When I started up with the firearms hobby again I pretty much knew what I liked.
Old school stuff.
Some little Browning 22's designed in the early 20th century , several S&W revolvers from the mid 20th and a target pistol. I was good to go.
They are all blued guns with wooden stocks.
I kept on collecting things , an auto load pistol cal. carbine , a pocket gun, a 1911 style 9.
One of the last ones was a SS , DW and I did my home work and decided that that gun would work for me and found one used. It was the Stainless thing thats so popular , which wasn't my preference but the price was right and I bought it.
I sort of hated on it when it arrived but now that I can shoot it better that stainless don't look so bad.
The Glocks I find utterly charmless but they function and in the right hands are accurate. They are good tools , but undesirable to me.
I will say this , the modern guns I do own are excellent, accurate and trouble free.
So thats a good thing right ?
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:41 AM
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In today's fast-moving modern age, when a new plastic handgun design has an average lifespan of 5 years or less before it is discontinued and replaced with something newer, a gun designed in the early 70's and first manufactured in 1975 (like the Sig P220) is damn near an antique.
The Glock 17 came out in 1982 and is still in production. That was 36 years ago. And it is almost as old as the P220. Yes there have been modifications to the 17 and other guns designed based on it (like the 19) but S&W does the same thing. Look at all the dash number variations of the 629. Most of those didn't last 5 years.

It hasn't been just Glock that sticks with designs either. Taurus has been making the PT series polymer pistols for quite a while. They started out being called "Millennium" if that tells you anything.

There have been some models that showed up and disappeared quickly but an average of 5 years seems low to me. And again the P220 isn't really a lot older than the Glock designs. That's why I was thinking it wasn't really a traditional in the sense of a 1911 or Hi Power or the revolvers that were pretty much designed in the 19th century. Look how far back the Colt Official Police went. It was still in production when many of the guns mentioned here were being made. The P220 has no history like that.
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Old 04-19-2018, 11:27 AM
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The day will come when everybody will be longing for the "Classics" of 2018. A 50 year old Model 69 will be quite the treasure.
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:40 PM
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The Glock 17 came out in 1982 and is still in production. That was 36 years ago. And it is almost as old as the P220. Yes there have been modifications to the 17 and other guns designed based on it (like the 19) but S&W does the same thing. Look at all the dash number variations of the 629. Most of those didn't last 5 years.

It hasn't been just Glock that sticks with designs either. Taurus has been making the PT series polymer pistols for quite a while. They started out being called "Millennium" if that tells you anything.

There have been some models that showed up and disappeared quickly but an average of 5 years seems low to me. And again the P220 isn't really a lot older than the Glock designs. That's why I was thinking it wasn't really a traditional in the sense of a 1911 or Hi Power or the revolvers that were pretty much designed in the 19th century. Look how far back the Colt Official Police went. It was still in production when many of the guns mentioned here were being made. The P220 has no history like that.
Well, you've got me there. Glock is always the exception to everything. The G17Gen4 came out in 2010 and the G17Gen5 came out last year... so that's 7 years between design changes (I had said <5). We'll have to wait and see how long the Gen5 guns last. Methinks it will depend on when Glock feels it needs another sales boost.

But your point is entirely valid about traditional S&W revolver updates, even if some were ridiculously minor (and some, I'll admit, were major). I'll give you that.

But in the context of this discussion, if everything designed around WWII or thereafter is to be considered a "firearm of today", then I guess that would make me a really big fan of "firearms of today"! Problem solved!
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:54 PM
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The day will come when everybody will be longing for the "Classics" of 2018. A 50 year old Model 69 will be quite the treasure.
It saddens me to hear young folks calling LED Zepplin Classic Rock.
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Old 04-19-2018, 10:50 PM
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But in the context of this discussion, if everything designed around WWII or thereafter is to be considered a "firearm of today", then I guess that would make me a really big fan of "firearms of today"!
The dawn of the plastic age came back in the 60's with the Nylon 66. Plus Winchester made changes to their guns with the whole pre-64 thing being a big deal to a lot of people. And another time of upheaval came in the 80's with the Freedom Group pretty much mucking up Remington rifles and to an extent their shotguns.

I tend to look at those time periods as the time of the so called modern weapons. Even S&W started using MIM parts in the 80's. So that seems like the end of the classic era to me. It started going out in the 60's and by the 80's things were in full modern mode for many. Maybe the last straw was the hated internal locks on the Smiths which started in the early 90's. The AWB was a big issue too.

But in the early 90's there were tons of SKS milsurp rifles on the market dirt cheap. A lot of people got the idea that shooting didn't have to be expensive from that. The guns were dirt cheap and so was the ammo. And people bought them by the truckload. Cheap rifles have been with us since then.

I actually think that there were lots of cheap rifles in the 50's at least by the standards of many here. Walnut was a luxury many could not afford. People forget that Remington made their name as a cheap alternative to Winchester. Back then it was complaints about guns made with more assembly line parts. The craftsman was excluded from gun making. IMO there have always been curmudgeons about guns. Heck the US lagged far behind Europe in producing double action revolvers. The army was slow in adopting repeating rifles after the Civil War because someone thought long range shooting was more important than fast shooting.

I don't think it was as bad in the 60's when Winchester had to give ground to compete with Remington as some would have us think. Remington made some fine rifles. I don't think the 80's and 90's were a disaster time either. For all the cheap milsurp AK's being sold there were those who were developing the AR platform into the world leader it is now. And there is not much walnut on an AR. I think Savage makes some fine guns and there are guns made in Europe that are very nice. CZ, Tikka, Weatherby and others make excellent guns. And Sako is still in business. And IMO Anschutz makes great rifles.

Sako still makes beautiful rifles. So do companies like Cooper. They aren't cheap but that's the whole reason Winchester stopped making guns like they did in the 50's. They were expensive compared to rivals like Remington. You still have to pay for the really beautiful stuff like this Sako. I just don't think things are as bad as some seem to think. My Stevens 15-A .22 was cheap with cheap wood in the 50's. And some of the handguns I saw were worse than the Ring Of Fire pistols. It's just not all bad IMO. I'd love to have this Sako.

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Old 04-20-2018, 06:32 AM
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It depends what you are looking for. If you want art then you want the old classics. The blue fit and finish can't be beat except by very expensive gun smiths. For duty and carry guns to go into harms way today's guns are better. Reliability and durability far exceeds the guns of yesteryear.
That's it for me in a nutshell. I like the older guns, because they're the guns I wanted when I was young. If I just wanted a gun to shoot, one made today would do just as well.
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:30 PM
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The aesthetics of the newer guns plastic, stainless, rails and adjustable stocks, etc. leave me cold. I have no love for how they look and no compulsion to collect them.

From a function stand point I do appreciate them. I have some beautiful blued steel and fine walnut rifles, shotguns and revolvers that I use and love. They have a soul beyond that of just being a tool.

I also own some plastic fantastics: a couple of S&W Shields, S&W M&P 15 VTAC, a Glock, a Winchester SX3 semi auto shotgun and a Ruger American bolt rifle. They are all great tools and do their jobs superbly. Other than being cold, impersonal and lacking soul they are okay. Not a one of them are on my never sell list. If something happened to one I can walk into any gun emporium and buy another just like the last one.

So do I like the new guns, not really, but I do own a few because they do what they do so very well.

Thankfully one can buy new manufactured blued metal and fine walnut guns or plastic and coated stainless steel firearms.

Both bought new this year: both bought for less than $500 and both shoot sub MOA. We're blessed we can still have the best of both worlds, new and old.



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Old 04-21-2018, 07:27 PM
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In time any gun becomes a collectors piece.

I bought a bi centinial made in the 200th year of American liberty ruger police service six 357 #GF32 2 3/4” bbl in stainless for $145 in ‘76. It was never in the catalogue. I seen the same gf32 revolver a ‘77 recently with made in the 200th year of American liberty sell for $750 online. I’m not sure where the value on mine is but my point is we have no clue sometimes what will go up in value.

If rugers are collectable anything is.

As far as plastic gun stocks it took me many decades to accept them. Real wood surely looks good on any gun

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Old 04-21-2018, 07:31 PM
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In answer to your question,

No.

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Old 04-21-2018, 07:39 PM
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Other than 1911s, there’s not many new handguns that interest me.
Take the blinders off. Don’t do what I did. I stayed focused on a 357 ruger revolver, a Redhawk in 44mag, a 1911a1, and a few hunting rifles for most of my life I was in this rut. There are so many guns to enjoy. When I got into the military guns with the history about them plus there was a flood of surplus guns and ammo I had fun. But when the military ammo ran out and some military guns went sky high. I said to myself why not look at modern guns, with the new grandson I figured who knows by then what will be offered and what will be so expensive for him. He has a assortment of late 1800’s, & early 1900’s 22 rifles already. I purchased his first s&w k22 revolver. That got me interested in s&w firearms. I’m sorry I waited so long to get into them.
My point is don’t wait venture out now.

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Old 04-22-2018, 11:38 PM
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I'm not about to argue the fact that nowadays guns made out of stainless and plastic(call it fiberglass or composite,it just ain't wood)are more practical.I mean,you come under the tent at the end of a long,hard hunting rainy day,you don't have to lovingly lightly oil your faithful friend,give it some well deserved care and....well,let's not get carried away here!You get the point I'm sure.
What I mean is if all you want is a tool to shoot a few bullets to sight the thing in and then bang it on trees while you're after that deer(or whatever else)then a $400plastic rifle and scope combo'll do.
But if you see more than just a plain tool in a rifle,a nice piece of machinery finely tuned and precisely fitted in a selected piece of nicely figured wood,then mister you are a ''connaisseur''.Of course,your wallet will be thinned out quite a bit but you will have something that is worth its weight in gold comes reselling time.
My phylosophy is the same about handguns;I don't argue the fact that today's law enforcement personel have to carry more weight on their belt and,given those facts,I too would probably like a tupperware gun on my belt.But since I don't have to wear them,just shooting them,I guess that disqualifies me from arguing about their value.So I'll stick with walnut(or rosewood)and blue steel.

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