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06-05-2021, 04:06 AM
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Better than the S&W model 65? Say it isnt so!
IMG_0669 by Dandy Randy, on Flickr
I got tired of looking at these S&W model 65 3 inch revolvers that looked like they were found in the HMS Titanic for these absurd prices so I went with the Colt King Cobra with the 3 inch barrel instead. Looked like a good contender for a replacement for my beloved 65 and the gun was new so no more looking at used garbage. Its been a couple years now and Im at the 1000 round count mark with mostly cheap 38 special... ha ha I say cheap.. Not no more! But at least its cheaper than 357. Heck another reason to get a 9mm pistol I guess. Anyways I digress. I have to report the King Cobra lived up to its name and has a poisonous bite! I was worried that the gun wouldnt make it because of the Colt bafoonery as of late but I guess who ever put mine together had a donut and a smile that day and did a good job puttin mine together. The revolver has performed flawlessly. The double action is very nice and smooth and the timing and lock up is still like brand new. The Pachmayr Grippers came loose once but that was easily solved with a screw driver. So lets talk about some key differences between the two guns. The big difference between the S&W model 65 and the King Cobra, besides the obvious Colt and S&W differences Im not gonna waste time talking about, is the weight of the two guns. The King Cobra is lighter but I dont feel like its too light where its uncomfortable to shoot 357. The King Cobra also has a full length protected ejector rod which is a plus. The downside of the King Cobra is the amount of accessories available. The Model 65 has more grip and accessory options but its really not a big deal. Both guns could probably use the same holster anyway so who cares. Would I still buy a S&W 65 3 inch? If the prices came back to planet Earth prices instead of planet Wakkado prices than yes I would however it would have to be nice and I would send it back to S&W for a rework that would cost me a lot of money for a gun that still after all that Performance Center work and money would still not have the same comparable sweet trigger pull as my King Cobra. Ya see what Im sayin? So Im not looking for a 3 inch model 65 anymore and seeing the insane prices of a new 4 inch Colt Python I think I would rather have a 4 inch barrel model 65 instead. The prices on those havent left our solar system to coo coo land yet.
IMG_0674 by Dandy Randy, on Flickr
Last edited by dandyrandy; 06-05-2021 at 06:16 PM.
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06-05-2021, 04:15 AM
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I forgot to mention you can replace the front sight easily on the King Cobra with an Allen key. Dont get me wrong the copper dot front sight post is new to me but it works great! So I can put a fiber optic sight on the gun or a night sight. I prefer the night sight option. Just one bright night sight on the front is a great option for a self defense gun.
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06-05-2021, 04:21 AM
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taurus 856 by Dandy Randy, on Flickr
I also wanted to to give an honorable mention to another revovler which I think is an outstanding option if you have gotten tired of planet crazy land prices for the model 65 3 inch revolver. I highly recommend the drum roll please...... The Taurus! What???!!! Ya you heard me right the Taurus I didnt stutter! The model 856 in a 3 inch barrel to be exact. Its waaaaay cheaper than the two above mentioned revolvers. If you dont got the cabbage or your just a cheap skate or you just like cool guns like me than the Taurus is an outstanding deal! yes it holds 6 in the cylinder like the two above mentioned however its only in 38 special though.
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06-05-2021, 09:52 AM
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What's better than a 3" Taurus in .38 Special? A Model 64. Shown here with two other 3" friends (SP101 in .327 and K6S in .357)
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06-05-2021, 10:24 AM
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The most positive development in the revolver world in many, many years is the return of the small frame, six shot .38/.357 D frame sized revolvers. Charter Arms, Taurus, Colt, and Kimber are all making D frame size revolvers now.
I love Smiths, but in my humble opinion the D frame sized guns are the perfect carry revolvers. They are just slightly bigger than J frames, yet they are true six shooters. They are easier to shoot well than a five shot pocket rocket and they are much easier to carry than a medium frame revolver. Now if we could just convince S&W to give the Model 73/C frame another try, and Ruger to finally make the SP101 the small frame .38/.357 six shooter it should have been from the start, all would be right with the revolver world (or at least start to head in that direction).
Last edited by JWintergreen; 06-05-2021 at 10:25 AM.
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06-05-2021, 01:34 PM
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Is the 65 3" gun bringing top notch prices? I've got one and knew it is a good gun, but didn't realize it is a prized revolver.
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06-05-2021, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene L
Is the 65 3" gun bringing top notch prices? I've got one and knew it is a good gun, but didn't realize it is a prized revolver.
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You don't get out much, do you?
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06-05-2021, 02:00 PM
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I've been a hard core S&W guy most of my gun buying life, but the 2020 Python has almost got me over into the Colt camp. I've got three of them now, paid MSRP for two of them, and a a couple hundred over for the third just a month or so ago. That's one 6" and two 4" ones. Great guns.
The biggest thing I notice is the triggers. These guns just beg to be fired double action.
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06-05-2021, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene L
Is the 65 3" gun bringing top notch prices? I've got one and knew it is a good gun, but didn't realize it is a prized revolver.
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Those particular models are pushing $900-$1000 in used condition with rubber grips and no box.
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06-05-2021, 05:04 PM
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I don't, indeed, get out much. And since I've never thought about selling it or valuing it, I don't know what it's worth. It was a retirement gift from my first retirement back in 86. It was my duty revolver, but I carried a 1911 mostly so it didn't get shot much. The grips, which I replaced but still have, are like new. I put elk antler on the gun along with a Tyler T-grip. I don't think I've ever fired a .357 round through it as .38 Special was our duty load.
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06-05-2021, 05:34 PM
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People tend to have their sacred cows here, and will just never come to grips with another make of gun being better than their Golden Calf.
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06-05-2021, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by turp_dog
Those particular models are pushing $900-$1000 in used condition with rubber grips and no box.
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What!!! Even my CDNN bead blasted piece I got for $300???
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06-05-2021, 06:48 PM
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I like three inch guns.
Ruger New Model Vaqeuro in .45 ACP
Ruger Speed Six "GS33-PS" in .357 Magnum
S&W Model 65 DAO in .357 Magnum
Colt King Cobra in .357 Magnum
Ruger GP100 in .357 Magnum
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06-05-2021, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandyrandy
taurus 856 by Dandy Randy, on Flickr
I also wanted to to give an honorable mention to another revovler which I think is an outstanding option if you have gotten tired of planet crazy land prices for the model 65 3 inch revolver. I highly recommend the drum roll please...... The Taurus! What???!!! Ya you heard me right the Taurus I didnt stutter! The model 856 in a 3 inch barrel to be exact. Its waaaaay cheaper than the two above mentioned revolvers. If you dont got the cabbage or your just a cheap skate or you just like cool guns like me than the Taurus is an outstanding deal! yes it holds 6 in the cylinder like the two above mentioned however its only in 38 special though.
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I've been wanting a new Taurus. But I don't want the lock.
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06-05-2021, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13
People tend to have their sacred cows here, and will just never come to grips with another make of gun being better than their Golden Calf.
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Ignoring the lighter barelled L frames (619/620 and 686 Mountain Guns) is a good example of this when it comes to medium frame revolvers.
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06-05-2021, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami_JBT
I've been wanting a new Taurus. But I don't want the lock.
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This model is void of the lock on the hammer which is one of the reasons I got one. I got the stainless version but good luck finding one. They got some blued ones though still in stock.
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06-05-2021, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miami_JBT
I've been wanting a new Taurus. But I don't want the lock.
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I believe the only revolvers in the new 856 lineup that have the hammer lock are the CA. compliant guns. A D frame sized 856 would be a great choice for a new Taurus. D frame sized revolvers are the perfect carry revolvers in my eyes, and one of those rare revolvers that let you have your cake and eat it too. If Taurus can keep their QC in check, they have a real gem here.
Last edited by JWintergreen; 06-05-2021 at 07:45 PM.
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06-05-2021, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sistema1927
What's better than a 3" Taurus in .38 Special? A Model 64. Shown here with two other 3" friends (SP101 in .327 and K6S in .357)
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I went at length before how much I like the 327 magnum. The SP-101 is built like a German Panzer tank however the double action trigger is not so good GI.
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06-05-2021, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandyrandy
I went at length before how much I like the 327 magnum. The SP-101 is built like a German Panzer tank however the double action trigger is not so good GI.
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I have beat this dead horse for years, but it is still one worth kicking. The curse of the SP101 is that it is a D frame sized revolver with J frame capacity. It should have always been a small frame six shot .38/.357. Ruger should have went with a slightly taller frame size, and a 1.40" diameter cylinder, instead of a 1.35" diameter cylinder. Now that other companies are making small frame .38/.357 six shooters, this is the time to correct this mistake. Ruger also has the LCR lineup and a seven shot GP100, so there are no reasons not to do this.
When it comes to small frame revolvers the .327 thrives in turning a J frame sized gun into a six shooter. A new LCRX in .327 with a 3" barrel would make a lot of .327 fans happy. It would also be nice to see S&W offer steel .38 only J frames and .327 J frames again.
Last edited by JWintergreen; 06-05-2021 at 08:01 PM.
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06-05-2021, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandyrandy
I went at length before how much I like the 327 magnum. The SP-101 is built like a German Panzer tank however the double action trigger is not so good GI.
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A little bit of polishing and a couple of shims cleaned up the trigger pull so that it is acceptable now. Shouldn't be that way, but it is not just Ruger who are cutting corners these days.
However, I just purchased a Charter Arms Undercoverette in .32 H&R (2"), and the trigger is pretty good right out of the box. I just replaced the DA/SA hammer with a DAO one yesterday.
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06-06-2021, 02:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandyrandy
This model is void of the lock on the hammer which is one of the reasons I got one. I got the stainless version but good luck finding one. They got some blued ones though still in stock.
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I know they make the 3" convertible that comes with a 9mm and .357 cylinder. Is that now lock free?
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06-06-2021, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandyrandy
I forgot to mention you can replace the front sight easily on the King Cobra with an Allen key. Dont get me wrong the copper dot front sight post is new to me but it works great! So I can put a fiber optic sight on the gun or a night sight. I prefer the night sight option. Just one bright night sight on the front is a great option for a self defense gun.
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I have the new model Python and Cobra. With about 5 minutes work S&W front sights can be modified to work in the Colts.
Using the interchangeable S&W front sight just clip the wings of the base down to a post. Then shorten the post and drop it in. Works fine. I have a Patridge front sight on my Python and a red ramp on the Cobra.
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06-06-2021, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ladder13
People tend to have their sacred cows here, and will just never come to grips with another make of gun being better than their Golden Calf.
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I'm probably in that camp.
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06-06-2021, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWintergreen
I have beat this dead horse for years, but it is still one worth kicking. The curse of the SP101 is that it is a D frame sized revolver with J frame capacity. It should have always been a small frame six shot .38/.357. Ruger should have went with a slightly taller frame size, and a 1.40" diameter cylinder, instead of a 1.35" diameter cylinder. Now that other companies are making small frame .38/.357 six shooters, this is the time to correct this mistake. Ruger also has the LCR lineup and a seven shot GP100, so there are no reasons not to do this.
When it comes to small frame revolvers the .327 thrives in turning a J frame sized gun into a six shooter. A new LCRX in .327 with a 3" barrel would make a lot of .327 fans happy. It would also be nice to see S&W offer steel .38 only J frames and .327 J frames again.
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I couldn't agree more. I'd love an SP101, especially in the 3-inch model, but for its size and weight it really should have been bumped up a little more to make a six-shooter.
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06-06-2021, 07:57 PM
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My shootin' bud has a 101. It's a great little gun, but heavy for its size. He put a spring kit in it and the DA is excellent now, and reliable as well.
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06-06-2021, 09:07 PM
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Yup
I posted somewhere on this forum sometime ago that S&W was tone deaf by bringing out the new M66 with the 2.??” barrel. The adjustable sights don’t help either.
Anyway, they should have simply brought back the 65 with the new K frame updates & the ability to accept any aftermarket J frame pinned front sight. I think they would’ve had an awesome seller!
But noooo, they did not despite people clamoring for one. I think Colt nailed it with the new king cobra 3 inch. Likewise, front sight system on this new Cobra series is pretty slick!
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06-06-2021, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PR24
I posted somewhere on this forum sometime ago that S&W was tone deaf by bringing out the new M66 with the 2.??” barrel. The adjustable sights don’t help either.
Anyway, they should have simply brought back the 65 with the new K frame updates & the ability to accept any aftermarket J frame pinned front sight. I think they would’ve had an awesome seller!
But noooo, they did not despite people clamoring for one. I think Colt nailed it with the new king cobra 3 inch. Likewise, front sight system on this new Cobra series is pretty slick!
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Ya for real? What are they smokin over there? Colt Ruger Kimber and Taurus heard the call for a 3 inch revolver and they sold em like hot cakes but S&W is still Awol??? If they do bring the 65 back you know it will have that hideous Un-American Communist hippie key lock on it though you know they will! I can taste the vomit in my mouth already...
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06-06-2021, 10:54 PM
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426e9006ecd848803a4771ffef3ff5453ed4fc2c-1 by Dandy Randy, on Flickr
I mentioned the S&W Performance Center in my review of the King Cobra. I need to talk more about the place. They actually do amazing work and they are quite affordable for what they do. I had my model 640 reworked by them and got the whole shabang bamalama ding dong job to it and they turned it into some thing total different and amazing!
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06-06-2021, 11:06 PM
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Did the Pachmayrs fit the new King Cobra out of the box without any modification? That combo looks surprisingly sharp IMO, and I generally don't care for the full-underlug look on anything but the Python and the SP101.
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06-06-2021, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PR24
I posted somewhere on this forum sometime ago that S&W was tone deaf by bringing out the new M66 with the 2.??” barrel. The adjustable sights don’t help either.
Anyway, they should have simply brought back the 65 with the new K frame updates & the ability to accept any aftermarket J frame pinned front sight. I think they would’ve had an awesome seller!
But noooo, they did not despite people clamoring for one. I think Colt nailed it with the new king cobra 3 inch. Likewise, front sight system on this new Cobra series is pretty slick!
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Except you can't get parts from Colt.
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06-06-2021, 11:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY-1
Did the Pachmayrs fit the new King Cobra out of the box without any modification? That combo looks surprisingly sharp IMO, and I generally don't care for the full-underlug look on anything but the Python and the SP101.
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Yes all Colt D frame grips fit on the KC because its a d frame.
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06-06-2021, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dandyrandy
Yes all Colt D frame grips fit on the KC because its a d frame.
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Excellent. I read some sporadic complaints about the trigger guard causing a clearance issue and requiring the grip to be trimmed in the front, but I'm glad to hear that isn't the case. Might have to look into one of these in the near future!
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06-06-2021, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY-1
Excellent. I read some sporadic complaints about the trigger guard causing a clearance issue and requiring the grip to be trimmed in the front, but I'm glad to hear that isn't the case. Might have to look into one of these in the near future!
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I use the post 73 grips on the new Cobra. You'll need to get a grip frame pin to secure the bottom, the new model Colts don't have them. Easily available & cheap from Numrich.
I was originally going to use the older model grips with a BK grip adapter but a) didn't look right on the new stainless revolver and b) there's a small gap on the gun between the sideplate and the frame that shows when using them. The post 73 covers it.
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06-07-2021, 12:06 AM
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I am glad this thread is still going. As a die hard revolver guy, it warms my heart to see the D size frame comeback, folks interested in steel J frames, and lighter barrelled 3" medium frame revolvers.
I'm glad to hear that the Pachmayrs fit without modification. I have heard folks try other D frame grips with mixed success. I wish Colt had not changed the trigger guard on their new small frame guns. Also, Colt should have kept the Detective Special and Magnum Carry nameplates along with offering a .38/.357 Diamondback instead of the King Cobra Target. With that said, I am very grateful that Kimber and Colt got the ball rolling with new D frame size revolvers.
Call me crazy, but when it comes to mid size .357 Smiths, I think they should give the 619 and 620/686 Mountain Gun another chance. The lighter barrelled L frames are just about identical in weight to the K frame Magnums and you can still have a gas ring, unlike the new 19/66 models. A seven round cylinder would also be an option. A three inch 619 would make more sense than a new three inch 65. S&W should also offer a three inch, round butt model 64 and a 3" fixed sight .38 only model 60 in their "Classic Series." Three inch barrels are hot and this would be great for folks that want a nice .38 (like myself). I have never understood why S&W does not offer retro styled brushed stainless guns in their Classic Series.
As for Ruger, they need to get off the pot and finally offer that 6 shot .38/.357 SP101. People have been requesting this for years. There are so many reasons that a second SP frame revision would be worth the costs. If anyone is interested in this, use Ruger's "Tell the CEO" feature and let them know!
Last edited by JWintergreen; 06-07-2021 at 12:10 AM.
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06-07-2021, 12:22 AM
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Just to remind the uninitiated, my El Cheapo bead blasted 65 complete with Pachmayr Combats.
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06-07-2021, 12:49 AM
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I love my DS and 69 Cobra but I can’t wrap my head around the look of the new Cobra....that trigger guard shape kills it for me.
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06-07-2021, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz
I love my DS and 69 Cobra but I can’t wrap my head around the look of the new Cobra....that trigger guard shape kills it for me.
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Yes sir, that was a horrible decision on Colt's part. The DS, Diamondback, original alloy frame Cobra, PPS, SF-VI, and Magnum Carry are some of the best looking revolvers of all time. I am still in shock that Colt did this and confused the buying public by calling a new DS a "Cobra" and a new Magnum Carry a "King Cobra." That has caused some real frustration, when it comes to accessories (esp. holsters). Also, bringing out that hideous King Cobra Target instead of a new Diamondback was mind numbingly stupid. The barrel is so massive on that model that the weight was ballooned up to 36 ounces. This is medium frame territory and defeats the purpose of a small frame, 4" revolver. A "mini Python" with D frame handiness was a great idea in 1966 and it would go over even better today.
I am very glad that they brought back D frame sized revolvers. The new Cobra/King Cobras are very size efficient little guns. However, they should bring back a DS or Diamondback line that is identical in appearance to the originals. Sorry for the rant, but Colt's marketing decisions never cease to amaze me. The "gloved hand" explanation was a solution in search of a problem.
Hopefully this D frame reniassance will push Ruger and S&W in the right direction.
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06-07-2021, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz
I love my DS and 69 Cobra but I can’t wrap my head around the look of the new Cobra....that trigger guard shape kills it for me.
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For sure, it does have a touch of the Czech 98k winter triggerguard about it.
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06-07-2021, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz
I love my DS and 69 Cobra but I can’t wrap my head around the look of the new Cobra....that trigger guard shape kills it for me.
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Colt is supposedly bringing out a Diamondback. Which makes sense as it's mostly a prettied up D frame - ribbed barrel, adjustable sights and nice grips. I hope to heck they don't use the currently offered squashed trigger guard and, like the Anaconda redo, stick with the original.
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06-07-2021, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsf
Colt is supposedly bringing out a Diamondback. Which makes sense as it's mostly a prettied up D frame - ribbed barrel, adjustable sights and nice grips. I hope to heck they don't use the currently offered squashed trigger guard and, like the Anaconda redo, stick with the original.
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The Diamondback is my favorite Colt of all time. I agree with you on that god-awful triggerguard. Another fear of mine, is that the gun might be relegated to rimfire only status, due to the presence of that darn King Cobra Target. I hope that Colt offers a .38/.357 version. The King Cobra Target needs to be given the Old Yeller treatment. I sure hope Colt does not screw this up.
As I previously alluded to, you do not need an MBA in marketing to see that a "Mini Python" that is much easier to carry would be a slam dunk.
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06-07-2021, 08:17 PM
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My 4" Model 65-1 replaced my issued 4" Model 686-6 the last week before I retired. When I got it, it had bubba'ed and plastic wooded N-frame grips on it. I put some Thai grips and a BK Grip on it. Traded a KelTec P3AT with 6 magazines even up for it.
Sent from my SM-A516V using Tapatalk
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06-07-2021, 11:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JWintergreen
The Diamondback is my favorite Colt of all time. I agree with you on that god-awful triggerguard. Another fear of mine, is that the gun might be relegated to rimfire only status, due to the presence of that darn King Cobra Target. I hope that Colt offers a .38/.357 version. The King Cobra Target needs to be given the Old Yeller treatment. I sure hope Colt does not screw this up.
As I previously alluded to, you do not need an MBA in marketing to see that a "Mini Python" that is much easier to carry would be a slam dunk.
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If I had my way it would be 22 lr and 22 WMR, 327 Federal and 38 Special. I'm guessing we'll end up with 22 lr and 38 Special. Although, I never really developed a liking for the Diamondback in 38 Special. Gun seems a bit too small for it in a 6" version.
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06-07-2021, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsf
If I had my way it would be 22 lr and 22 WMR, 327 Federal and 38 Special. I'm guessing we'll end up with 22 lr and 38 Special. Although, I never really developed a liking for the Diamondback in 38 Special. Gun seems a bit too small for it in a 6" version.
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I hope it works out that way. A centerfire Diamondback line would have more appeal than the King Cobra Target. Hopefully, things improve under CZ ownership as well.
At least it is nice to see new D frame size revolvers. Revolver fans finally have new things to look foward to at long last.
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06-19-2021, 04:11 PM
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The Diamondback is my all-time favorite .38 Spl revolver... PLEASE bring it back!
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06-19-2021, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CajunBass
I've been a hard core S&W guy most of my gun buying life, but the 2020 Python has almost got me over into the Colt camp. I've got three of them now, paid MSRP for two of them, and a a couple hundred over for the third just a month or so ago. That's one 6" and two 4" ones. Great guns.
The biggest thing I notice is the triggers. These guns just beg to be fired double action.
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I was flabbergasted by the 2020 Python DA, it is incredibly smooth and light. My son got one a while back and I'm on the short list for one. Sure, it's not the original but it ain't $4000 either.
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