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Old 05-18-2018, 07:01 AM
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Default ANOTHER COMPANY FALLS

Another company has been badgered out of the firearms business. Well,sort of. Vista Outdoors will sell off it's firearm manufacturing business (Savage) in an attempt to appease it's non-firearm customers.

Trouble is that they will retain many firearm related brands in an attempt to have it both ways. Here is the link to the story:

Another Company Caves To Anti-Gun Mob, Will Stop Gun Manufacturing

Reacting against the company will present a problem for the firearms community because of the depth of Vista's involvement. Here is a link that shows their other brands:

Brands - Vista Outdoor

It'll be interesting to see how the gun-control activists and the firearms community will react to this one.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:11 AM
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They want to sell off one of their brands? Fine, it's their's to sell for whatever reason that they want to.

If, on the basis of virtue signalling, they lobbied for stricter gun control laws, or decided that they would only sell to LEO, or did did anything that reeked of "rules for thee, not for me", then that would be a different story. But simply selling off their firearms manufacturing brand doesn't seem like a threat to my rights or access to the sport I cherish. Mostly it just hurts themselves, I think, and shows how weak their management is.

As far as their other brands, well if anti-gunners are too stupid to protest those as well, let them have it both ways.
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Old 05-18-2018, 08:16 AM
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It's rather silly, since they make a lot of other firearms related items. Maybe I should say hypocritical, not silly. After all, there's nothing that they manufacture that I can't get from someone else.

I have ammunition from several of their brands. In protest, I'm going to destroy it all. At the range.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:38 AM
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Vista has one of the largest exhibits at NRAAM. I use a lot of their products.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:44 AM
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As far as I can see, Vista hasn't made any anti-gun/anti-2A statements.
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Old 05-18-2018, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GaryS View Post
It's rather silly, since they make a lot of other firearms related items. Maybe I should say hypocritical, not silly. After all, there's nothing that they manufacture that I can't get from someone else.

I have ammunition from several of their brands. In protest, I'm going to destroy it all. At the range.
It's short sighted. They don't pay attention. The mentality they are capitulating to, is never satisfied. Just selling off Savage and Stevens will not be enough for them. They WILL want more. And, once they know they can be bullied, they will ramp it up until they divest of all the ammo and glass and firearm accessory companies.

They should have sold off the lines like Bell Helmets and Camelback water packs instead, imho. Because these bully groups will now pressure them until that is ALL they have left. Blood in the water, the first capitulation is for them.
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Old 05-18-2018, 10:00 AM
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Well, it is their company to sell off I guess. But the other day when I was at the range a buddy drove up with a brand new Savage 110 Predator in 6.5 Creedmoor and while helping him sight it in, he showed me something on the gun that told me loads about the jerks that are running things there. If you have bought a Savage firearm in the past, you might remember that their logo had a big Indian on it. But the rifle he just bought has some kind of gawd-awful looking stylized "S" on it instead of the Indian dude in full headdress. So to me that tells me that the leadership of the head company (Vista Outdoors) is staffed by politically correct butt-kissers.

As for the rest of the companies under their thumb, I guess I will have to start looking for replacements for some of them as some are brands I have been buying for years and years. Where I can though, I will buy from some other company that is owned a less politically correct company that is more in tune with my beliefs and leanings. I will truly miss CCI, Hoppes, Alliant and RCBS though, unless they sell them off to some other company. The ammo thing doesn't affect me as I reload and very seldom buy any loaded ammo. And with all those, there are alternatives for me to choose from.

BTW, Vista Outdoors shows that they also own a company called "Redfield". What they own is not the optics, which are owned by Leopold & Stevens. They own the bases and scope rings only and not the optics. And there are a multitude of other base and ring choices out there besides Vista Outdoors owned Redfield bases and rings.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:16 AM
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Another take on it.

American Rifleman | The Keefe Report: Vista’s “Strategic Transformation Plan”—Remain Calm
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:21 AM
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The trustworthy and forthcoming mass media took a press release and ran with it. CNN, CNBC etc broke it as they are selling the brands as "dumping guns." More information was shared at NRA annual meetings. I am a skeptic at heart and after hearing and reading more I believe it to be a financial decision and not politically motivated.

Vista's actual release from May 1 is below:
Vista Outdoor Announces Strategic Business Transformation Plan
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Last edited by dusty3030; 05-18-2018 at 11:28 AM.
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dusty3030 View Post
The trustworthy and forthcoming mass media took a press release and ran with it. CNN, CNBC etc broke it as they are selling the brands as "dumping guns." More information was shared at NRA annual meetings. I am a skeptic at heart and after hearing and reading more I believe it to be a financial decision and not politically motivated.

Vista's actual release from May 1 is below:
Vista Outdoor Announces Strategic Business Transformation Plan
Yep, and I fell for it, doh!. Ugh, I know that Big Media = Untruths and lies.

The article on the NRA site puts it into perspective, particularly:

As a result of this evaluation, and with support from its board of directors, Vista Outdoor will focus on achieving growth through its market-leading brands in ammunition, hunting and shooting accessories, hydration bottles and packs, and outdoor cooking products."

and

The company plans to explore strategic options for assets that fall outside of these product categories, including its remaining Sports Protection brands (e.g. Bell, Giro, and Blackburn), Jimmy Styks paddle boards, and Savage and Stevens firearms.

Seems like they are in-diversifying a little, and jettisoning, product lines/companies not of the remaining core-line and/or marginal profits (like I am betting Savage is).
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:15 PM
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I would buy Savage.
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Old 05-18-2018, 12:22 PM
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"On May 1, 2018, Vista Outdoor announced that it would consider selling off its gun manufacturing subsidiaries to focus on its brands for outdoors enthusiasts. Months earlier, Vista announced that it was attempting to sell Bell, Giro, Blackburn, Jimmy Styks, Serengeti and Cebe. The company said its move out of the firearms business had nothing to do with recent boycotts. CEO Christopher Metz said the move had been planned in advance and that Savage Arms and Stevens would require too much investment to rectify their lack of handguns, which make up half the gun market in the US. Metz said he expects the asset sales to be completed by the 2020 fiscal year. Metz said the company would focus heavily on what it called its "heritage ammunition business."

Several years ago Vista took over the sporting ammunition business of ATK (Alliant).

Last edited by DWalt; 05-18-2018 at 12:39 PM.
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Old 05-18-2018, 02:03 PM
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Nice sleuthing. This makes more sense since they are keeping several other firearms related industries. I know Savage makes bolt action rifles, but I really don't know what else they make.

I see they are also divesting several none firearms related companies. I have a Bell bike helmet and Giro bike shoes. Good stuff and I hope they sell the lines and don't just close them down.

Thanks dusty3030.



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Originally Posted by dusty3030 View Post
The trustworthy and forthcoming mass media took a press release and ran with it. CNN, CNBC etc broke it as they are selling the brands as "dumping guns." More information was shared at NRA annual meetings. I am a skeptic at heart and after hearing and reading more I believe it to be a financial decision and not politically motivated.

Vista's actual release from May 1 is below:
Vista Outdoor Announces Strategic Business Transformation Plan
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Old 05-18-2018, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post

Several years ago Vista took over the sporting ammunition business of ATK (Alliant).
I don't think that is quite how it was! ATK split into 2 group-the sporting group and the defense group. The defense side was named Orbital ATK after merging with Orbital. The sporting goods side was renamed Vista Outdoors. I hope I am right!

Ed

Last edited by nedlate; 05-18-2018 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:03 PM
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Typical MSM spin.

They'll take anything they can get that they can twist to suit their agenda into an opportunity to scream "LOOK WE'RE WINNING! The NRA and the gun lovers are on the ropes!".

Their fondest hope is to sway the opinions of enough of the uninformed, for it to become a self-fulfilling prophesy.
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Old 05-18-2018, 11:24 PM
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I don't believe ANY business reports about large corporations or info about business put out by large corporations. They have but one purpose and that is to make money. Customer demands are but a small part of decision making. They would just as soon break up and sell off everything if it meant a large profit over a much smaller profit over passage of time. Announcements are not much more than propaganda for stock holders and wall street investors. I just hope Savage arms can continue once sold.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:27 PM
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They have but one purpose and that is to make money.
You say that like it's a bad thing. I've got news for you, EVERY company is in it to make money. Any business that says different is either lying or going to go out of business soon.
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Old 05-19-2018, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Firesticks
They have but one purpose and that is to make money.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rastoff View Post
You say that like it's a bad thing. I've got news for you, EVERY company is in it to make money. Any business that says different is either lying or going to go out of business soon.
Firesticks statement is 100% true and accurate and I don't think he was implying anything negative. Making money IS the only reason a for-profit company exists, and as you said, that isn't a bad thing. It's a fact of the capitalist economic system.

Anybody who thinks that making a profit is a negative doesn't understand the nature of our economy - and/or is deluded into thinking there is a better economic system that actually works in the real world.

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Old 05-19-2018, 08:09 PM
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Firesticks statement is 100% true and accurate and I don't think he was implying anything negative. Making money IS the only reason a for-profit company exists, and as you said, that isn't a bad thing. It's a fact of the capitalist economic system.

Anybody who thinks that making a profit is a negative doesn't understand the nature of our economy - and/or is deluded into thinking there is a better economic system that actually works in the real world.
Capitalism can be both good and bad. Depends on what and how you use profit. Right now it is in a generally bad mode. It is used to satisfy the greedy. I do not believe anything a company says, announces or advertises. It is best to observe and be extremely cautious in where money is spent, invested or saved no matter what your economic status is. Fully trusting any business as they operate in today's economy is fool hardy at best. We'll wait and see how the sale of Savage arms plays out with Vista.
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Old 05-19-2018, 08:43 PM
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I didn't know Vista owned RCBS. I have been told by others that RCBS Customer Service is not what it used to be. I guess I know why. So far I have never had a problem with any RCBS product, and I will continue to buy RCBS products from Vusta.
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Old 05-20-2018, 12:15 AM
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Capitalism can be both good and bad. Depends on what and how you use profit. Right now it is in a generally bad mode. It is used to satisfy the greedy. I do not believe anything a company says, announces or advertises. It is best to observe and be extremely cautious in where money is spent, invested or saved no matter what your economic status is. Fully trusting any business as they operate in today's economy is fool hardy at best. We'll wait and see how the sale of Savage arms plays out with Vista.
I disagree. Capitalism isn't perfect, and abuses happen, but as Sir Winston said, it is better than any other system ever devised or tried.

As for "corporate greed", that is a bunch of hooey. Who owns a corporation? The SHAREHOLDERS. Who are the shareholders? Warren Buffet and a bunch of fat cats? WRONG. The vast majority of stock in American Corporations is not held by a few fat cats - the shares are held by investment institutions, like mutual funds, and 401k's, and pension funds. Who owns those? Your average JOE - or rather a bunch of average Joes. Everyone who owns a mutual fund or has a pension, or a 401k or pretty much any other kind of investments is a shareholder - either directly or indirectly.

Are they being "greedy" to expect a return on their investment? Are you planning on retirement someday and expecting your retirement investments to grow? If so then you are one of those GREEDY capitalists.

American capitalism has resulted in more wealth accumulation by the common man than any other economic system ever devised. It gives us average Joes more opportunity to amass personal wealth than any other system that is currently in place or has ever been in place anywhere - EVER.

ANYBODY who is willing to 1) work hard 2) get some education and/or marketable skills 3) live BELOW their income level and 4) invest the difference between what they earn and what they spend can become a millionaire in this country.

Too many who aren't willing to do all of that - and you have to do all 4 things, you can't just do 2 or 3 of the steps - want to scream that the game is rigged and they can't win, and therefore capitalism is evil. HORSE-HOCKEY!

They won't make sacrifices to get ahead, or delay gratification. Instead they have to "have it all" right now - on credit of course - and end up a slave to their creditors. But of course it isn't THEIR fault, it is the crooked capitalistic system that is cheating them. BULL-SCAT!

Is everything fair and equitable in a capitalistic system. NOPE. But expecting life to be fair is a childish pipe-dream. Bad news, LIFE AIN"T FAIR FOLKS! But you have a better chance at success under our capitalist system than in any other system anywhere else on earth.

So don't tell me that capitalism is BAD. It ain't perfect, nothing is. But it is the best there is.

Last edited by BC38; 05-20-2018 at 12:17 AM.
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
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Capitalism can be both good and bad.
Capitalism is neither good or bad, it just is. It is an economic structure. It has no morality in and of its own.

If the profits are used in an illegal manner, then I agree with you that those profits can be used in a bad way. However, just amassing wealth is not bad and being poor or shunning wealth doesn't equal good. There is no morality here.

Vista selling off some gun related assets is a business decision. They're afraid of the negative public opinion associated with guns due to what the press is telling them. Again, not a morality issue, a strength of the company issue.

If Savage is making mad profits, then this is a bad decision. However, if Savage is just holding its own, maybe it's a good decision for Vista. Like I said, I'd love to buy Savage. I feel it's a money making company that can do well if run properly.
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Old 05-20-2018, 03:45 PM
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Guess the "ban all guns"," boycott all gun makers", Don't lend them money or buy their stock" crowd..... don't realize those same companies make guns for the US Military, Police, Fed. Agencies.............oh well;

we can always defend this country with our "finger guns" ...............

oh wait.... they're bad too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Old 05-20-2018, 04:15 PM
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I wouldn't miss Savage!
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