Any M1 Carbine stories, experiences, uses, thoughts, or preferred manufacturers? Let's hear'em

Ken Hackathorn on the M1 Carbine: Reputation vs Reality

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Ad Astra Per Aspera

I love the M1 Carbine and have two of them.
Until just recently when I finally gave in and bought an AR, the M1 Carbine was my chosen home defense rifle. Frankly, I still haven't decided if the AR will replace it in that role.
The only malfunctions I've ever had could be traced to bad ammo, usually that Wolf junk. With good ammo mine are not only totally reliable, but quite accurate as well.
Short, light, fast handling, low recoil and accurate out to 100 yards or more. what more could you want?

My grandfather had one with a folding stock under his truck seat for many years. Took it out once a blue moon shot it, cleaned it, and put it back.

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Expert at not being an Expert.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, I think called Staten Island, NY, but one of the NYC boroughs for sure, a man held up a store. Liquor store, jewelry store, I cannot recall. But it was a headline story.

The perp ran out to his car. The store owner followed and unleashed a barrage from his M-1 carbine. As I recall, through the windshield of the thief's car, etc. The perp was DRT.

I remember thinking, "HOLY JUMPING BATFISH!!!!" Or something like that. I was very impressed at the time.

I wish I could recall what happened to the store owner.

It was a very different time, I assure you.

My wife has limited reach strength, and has trouble shoulder firing a full size AR or wooden stocked main battle rifle (or full size bolt gun) The M-1 Carbine, Model 92 Carbine in 357 and a SKS are 3 rifles she can handle, and handle them well she does!

I like the mag pouch on the butt stock. This allows 45 rounds of ammo at the ready. If 45 rounds won't cure whatever ails you, you bit off far more than you could chew!

Ivan

I have shot a Universal M1 Carbine that works.
Works as long as the ammo is strong enough.
It does not like reloads that are marginal in power.

Shot a couple of NRA Highpower Rifle Matches with it.
The bullets took a while to reach the targets at 200 yards
but all went through point first. My scores were about the
same as with an M1 Garand too. The cases mostly landed
in the middle of my back in the prone stages. Felt sort of
odd but wasn't a problem.

How does she do with the M4 with the adjustable stock?

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Never tried an M4 configuration for her. She prefers her shotgun (391 20 gauge)! "In an End Of The World" situation, we will either be dead, or I will just pick one up for her, from someone who doesn't need it anymore!

But that brings us back to the M-1 Carbine, unlike most people I have a number of very good 15 round mags. I've owned 40 or 50 of the 30 rounders and don't like them! They interfere with prone shooting, especially when being a Low Down Rifleman, is a good thing! Carbine ammo is a little harder to come by, but I have enough to get started! (I know, I know, you can never have too much ammo!)

Ivan

70s, American Rifleman Armed Citizen.

Guy comes home to to see a couple of people run out of his house, jump in a car and drive off.

He's just been burgled.

He told the cops the car should be easy to spot. It had thirty .30 caliber bullet holes in the back end of it.

I presume he had an M1 Carbine in his vehicle.

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I always take precautions

"It's old, but so am I. Never underestimate the M1 Carbine."
Clint Smith

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Ad Astra Per Aspera

I remember my dad owning one.

He traded it to have a custom .243 built on a 98 Mauser for my older brother, a move he later regretted.

I wish he’d kept it, too.

My brother occasionally whines about my getting dad’s Remington Rand 1911-A1. Next time I’ll tell him HE got the M1 Carbine.

Problem is the ammo is expensive compared to the .223. I wish they made an M1 in .223 caliber. Now THAT would be perfect.

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Forum consigliere

They're perty enough to just look at though. I no longer purchase guns I have to shoot to enjoy.

I got this one last Saturday at the Denver Collectors show. I am nearly totally ignorant on M-1 carbines, but with a little help from a friend I jumped in. It is a 1945 Winchester and has been rehabbed at least once. It has an AA stamped lightly is the stock and a deeper AN stamp. I just got it yesterday, so don't know how well it'll shoot. All the extras were a gift from my friend. I needed one more caliber to feed.

My uncles and dad have always loved handling and shooting my M1 Carbines. I only have 1 uncle left that was in the tail end of WW2. The two that were in Korea are gone. My dad was in just before Vietnam. He was a radio operator so he was issued a Carbine instead of an M14.

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Chris
SWCA #2243 SWHF #292

The 180 and early 181 series Mini 14s come very close to that.

I bought my first M1 Carbine because I had a service rifle match on SUnday, but an open morning at a range where they were also having a tactical rifle match on Saturday. They had a "battle rifle" class as well as a light rifle class, and I had the battle rifle covered with my M1A, but I needed a light rifle.

Consequently, I bought a Inland M1 Carbine in excellent condition (you could still find them in that condition in the late 1980s for about $200) at a local gun shop along with the only two boxes of M1 carbine ammo he had - 50 round boxes of surplus Lake City GI ammo ($5 each) - and three new in the wrapper surplus 30 round magazines.

I used 10 rounds to zero the rifle and check the sights out to 200 yards and then loaded the other 90 rounds for the match. I got some very derisive looks from most of the other 20 or so shooters at the match. Most of them had AR-15 carbines or rifles, one had an HK93, and a few had SKSs - which were available for about $80 at the time with a case of ammo selling for the same $80. Many of the AR-15 shooters were sporting muzzle brakes and other gadgets, even before that became the norm on an AR-15 and they regarded them selves as the serious contenders.

The target ranges varied from close quarter combat out to 250 yards - which is almost perfect for the M1 Carbine. I ended up winning the battle rifle class and I placed second to the guy with the HK-93 in the light rifle division - beating each and every one of the AR-15s. That was very satisfying all by itself.

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Currently I prefer the 15 round magazines and I think they are both more durable and more reliable than the average 30 round magazine.

I have owned several, and still keep 3 on hand. My personal favorite is an early Winchester with the simple rear sight and push-button safety. For general utility use as a car gun (a purpose served for a couple of decades in law enforcement) my 1944 Inland Division carbine serves very well, with a 30-round Korean War-era Seymour mag in place and 2 Inland 15-rounders in the stock pouch.

Never experienced a M1 Carbine that was more than functionally accurate. Groups of 4" or so at 100 yards are pretty good, and some carbines won't even do that. Have to keep in mind that the design specs were for an alternative to pistols for support troops, capable of more accurate aimed fire at modest ranges than a handgun, and that is what to expect.

Another thing to keep in mind for defensive use is that the original 15-round mags do not provide a bolt hold-open function when emptied. The 30-round mags do so, but not always reliably.

The "paratrooper" folding stocks are cool looking, and handy for storage or transport in a vehicle, but they are not really conducive to best accurate shooting or comfort in use. Probably best suited for displays of WW2 weapons innovation for special purposes.

Very capable for short and mid-range defensive use, but not what anyone would describe as high-tech weapons. Simple, rugged, reliable for the original intended purposes.

My high wood Underwood-Elliot-Fisher. Also have a Quality Hardware and an IBM. I shoot cast bullets in all 3 with ZERO gas port problems. Reloading for your carbine saves lots of $$$.

Attached Images

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S&W Accumulator

SWEeet Mini......

Always wanted a M-1 carbine...... but also settled for a Mini-14.

Mine's the new heavy 16" barreled NRA model.,,,,, hogue stock and 10/20 rd mags.

hummm...wouldn't that describe a ruger mini-14...?

Pretty much........See posts 16 and 20.................

Not to hi-jack the thread...... but IMO the .30 M-1 is a pistol caliber carbine..Which "many" dismiss as having no purpose given modern 5.56 AR rifles..........I disagree and would point to the M-1 Carbine and H&K MP-9........

If like me you can't/haven't gotten an M-1 carbine......other options to consider ( I have all three) are the Beretta CX-4, Ruger 77/357 and Winchester Trapper..........the first is available in 9mm,.40 or .45 and is a semiauto... I have the 9mm which uses Beretta 92 magazines(15-30 rds) the others are very handy but more PC...... there's also the new Ruger carbine that uses Ruger or Glock mags.

I'll add agreement that a 9mm carbine is a good proxy for an M1 carbine as well.

I have a 16 inch "AR-9" carbine. It'll launch 115 gr HAPs or XTPS at 1500-1600 fps. At 1500 fps it has a 3" point blank range of 150 yards. Mine uses a ballistic advantage barrel and it's 2 MOA accurate at 100 yards. Like the M1 carbine it has a useful range out to around 200 yards.



I also have a "10 inch" (actually 11.5") AR-9 pistol with a brace that has the advantage of being shorter and handier, without suffering the restrictions some states place on SBRs. It gives up very little in velocity and nothing in accuracy.



I built both of them for a lot less than the price of a new Mini 14, or a M1 carbine in very good condition.

Getting back to the original subject and since we're showing off a bit, here's my two.
First is a 1943 Inland I bought a few years ago from CMP. Pictured here with a few fellow veterans.



Then there's another 1943, this one is a Standard Products. It was in kinda rough shape when I got it. So I decided to make it a bit more "sporty" for defensive use.

Have to add my M2 carbine story. We had a company commander in Viet Nam that had acquired an M2 carbine. Most of the time, he stayed mounted on his ACAV, but on the odd occasion he would dismount and accompany the scout platoon. On just such an occasion near Xuan Loc, while moving through some triple canopy, contact was made. In the ensuing firefight, he fired his carbine. Since it didn't sound like an an AK-74, an M16 or an M60, he drew return fire from both sides. He did not carry it dismounted again.

I always thought the carbine had the most distinctive sound on the battlefield. All weapons were distinct and you soon came to know what was being fired but the very high pitched “pop” “pop” really stood out and could be heard over everything else.

I wish I had one now. I'm crazy about carbines and the way they handle. I like shooting them more than any rifle. And the power is right for me in home defense use. I don't need to break concrete blocks or shoot a mile away. I don't live in Michigan where people wear big parkas. Which wouldn't matter anyway, because a carbine bullet is more powerful than any handgun commonly used for self defense.

And they are great plinking guns. they carry easily through undergrowth. They are light and carrying one around isn't as tiring as a full rifle.

I don't shoot past 100 yards anyway. Anything beyond that range doesn't exist because I can't see it, unless it's awfully big and prominent. Usually derelict refrigerators are right by the road, not 300 yards away.

They are also cheap to reload and don't require expensive bullets. Which is good because if I have a carbine I shoot it....a LOT.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

In '68 or 69 I remember sitting at the kitchen table and listening to my dad and brother-in-law discuss the M1 carbine. Dad had been in the Pacific during WW2 and felt the M1 was just too little gun. Said he eventually traded around until he ended up with a M3.

My BIL had recently returned from Vietnam where he had served as a RTO for an infantry company. He had carried a folding stocked, select fire carbine that had been assembled by the unit armorer. Not that unusual really. Dad asked "Didn't you find it under powered for jungle fighting?", to which Joe replied "I was a the radio operator, when the times came that I was shooting the targets were plenty close and I found the carbine to have enough power."

There seems to be no middle ground on M1 carbines, you either love them or hate them.

Mini 14! Love mine

Caj, isn't that a Mini 14?

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

If I were on the battlefield, I'd much rather have something bigger, too, and if I were issued one, I'd think that the higher ups were trying to get me killed. But for rear duty or house and fun duty the carbine is perfect.

So to be fair. Let's put rifles in two categories. Long range and short range. If somebody still hates carbines as short range weapons, then they just plain don't like carbines.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I'll dust off this hoary old narrative and post it. Eleven years ago I wrote this up as a topic starter for another forum. The .30 Carbine cartridge should have a mention on Smith & Wesson Forum as it makes a pretty cool cartridge. I confess to championing the good ol' .30 Carbine.

A Sixty-Year (now 70+) Family History With the .30 Carbine

A tall, tanned, young sailor was playing football dockside with some buddies at Pearl Harbor late one Sunday afternoon in early summer of 1945 where Patrol Craft Escort 845 was moored. The small ship was being refitted for the proposed invasion of Tokyo. He’d been transferred to the PCE from his former ship, Patrol Craft 598 when it caught fire while in port at Pearl Harbor, and was severely damaged. He’d assisted in extinguishing the blaze after several of the crew had abandoned ship. It was pretty exciting. An oil fire had spread from the ship to the surface of the harbor but he didn’t see any need to abandon his post. After all, the ship was tied up and if things had gotten too hot he could just step ashore across the low railing of the ship. He made friends readily, with his open honest personality developed in rural Texas during his Depression era childhood, so easily made the transition to his new ship and was now enjoying some free time, tossing a football with new friends on the asphalt dock.

As the afternoon wore on a Marine joined the group of sailors horsing around with the football. He announced that he had a rifle and ammunition he might be willing to sell if anyone was interested. He got the rifle out of a canvas case and it proved to be an MI Carbine. He allowed that he’d take twenty dollars for it. The sailor from Texas was interested in this new weapon which was almost never seen by civilians. It was such a compact handy little rifle and he thought it would be a lot of fun to show his brothers and friends back home. He liked guns and shooting and thought the little rifle would be a nice self defense weapon for civilians and handy for hunting game up to deer. He’d never hunted deer and knew nothing of ballistics. His hunting uncle had a Winchester Model 1894 rifle in .30 WCF with a red-painted stock and fore end. If one .30 would take deer any .30 would do. He was not apt to squander his pay, generally sending most of it back to his parents in Texas, and he had plenty saved up. He paid the twenty bucks to the Marine who told a story of the rifle being a battlefield pick-up on some far away island. The ship’s captain, a lieutenant in rank, was accommodating and gave him permission to bring the little carbine aboard ship and stow it in the ship’s armory along side of the 1903 Springfield rifles with which the ship was equipped.

Once at sea, the M1 Carbine was broken out and proved to be a hit with the crew. They shot at seagulls, sharks, and once brought down an albatross. The carbine stayed topside most of the time, even getting some gray naval paint on its stamped steel butt plate from a spill during a painting detail.

PCE’s were small ships. Displacing 903 tons, 184 feet long, with a beam of 33 feet it was no match for the Japanese submarines that preyed on the convoys the PCE was assigned to protect. Everyone on board knew the hull could be pierced with a .30-06. With its screws configured for tug duty, in the event that it had to be called upon to tow a much larger ship to safety, it was no match for a surfaced Jap sub in speed. Its 3-inch main gun was inferior to the larger 5.5-inch deck gun with which most Jap subs were fitted. The sub could simply shell the PCE to pieces from out of range. It was equipped with torpedoes and depth charges, and with these it could give a submerged Jap sub a measure of grief.

Big bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, the Tokyo invasion was off, and surrender documents were signed aboard the battleship Missouri on September 2, 1945. After a short refit in Pearl Harbor, the PCE was sent to the Aleutians for an assignment as a weather ship, this being the days before satellite weather observation. The sailor with the carbine spent some months serving as coxswain, enduring the boredom of patrolling within a few square miles of sea while the ship radioed back weather information.

Mustering out came in late summer of 1946. Happily the sailor broke the carbine down and packed it in his sea bag, tagging it for 3224 Avenue J Fort Worth, Texas and sent it home ahead of his own arrival. No one disturbed the contents of that sea bag and it arrived in time for the sailor’s older brother to assemble the carbine, and shoot up some of the ammo before his brother arrived home.


Pearl Harbor summer of 1945

The sailor was my father, and he’s now had that carbine for 60 years. It’s still in outstanding condition, having all early features excepting for the I-cut stock. It’s a dead stock Quality Hardware & Machine Company contract rifle. Well, dead stock except it still has that gray paint on its butt plate. Quality HMC used supplies of parts made by other prime contractors so this one wears a Rock-Ola barrel, which is common with the Quality HMC guns.



One of my earliest memories of firearms is connected with the .30 Carbine and is not a good one. In 1960 I was three years old when I got a whipping for sneaking a peek at the M1 Carbine standing in the corner of my father’s bedroom closet. In the summer of 1963 while at the lake cabin on Lake Leon my dad allowed me to shoot the rifle for the first time, the first center fire rifle I ever fired. It seemed huge, was very loud, and I needed help to hold it, but I was hooked on Carbines ever after.

Ten years later I was roaming the wilds of Lake Leon, having become old enough to drive myself out there. My dad’s carbine tagged along, and with it I discovered the joys of “campaign firing”. My cousin (who also had one of his dad’s carbines) and I burned up a lot of ammo on that first trip we made out there after we got our driver’s licenses. Trees, rocks, cactus, armadillos, and bunny rabbits all received a hail of carbine fire. The .30 Carbine cases may still be found scattered all over the home place from that trip long ago.



Origin, Purpose, and Military Use Of the .30 Carbine

The .30 carbine was developed on the eve of World War II by Winchester at the request of the War Department. The original 1938 US Army request for such an arm was shelved for a couple of years. It was originally though the light rifle would be preferable as an alternative to the handgun to arm rear echelon troops or personnel who, because of their duties found it inconvenient to carry the issue rifle. Several designs were considered with Winchester producing the most viable weapon. Their weapon utilized a gas tappet developed by Winchester employee David (Carbine) Williams. Their design went from a hand made prototype to an improved model suitable for testing in just 34 days. This improved design proved to be overwhelmingly superior to other designs and was adopted as Carbine, Caliber .30 M1 on September 25, 1941. The Ordnance Department had set the parameters for the type of cartridge before any rifle designs were reviewed. The cartridge has been said to have been developed from the .32 Winchester Self Loading round of 1905 but I can’t see that the .30 Carbine round and the .32 WSL are similar ballistically, nor are the case dimensions similar.

The carbine was produced in huge quantities and saw much wider service then originally envisioned. It found its way to the front line and assumed the role that properly belonged to the M1 Garand. It became popular with paratroopers and a folding stock version, the M1A1, was developed. The paratroopers made use of both versions of the M1 Carbine. Later in the War, an automatic version of the carbine was developed, designated the M2. A bayonet with attachment was added to the barrel of the M1 Carbine just before war’s end. Hostilities on the Korean peninsula called the carbine back to service in 1950 were it served, again along beside the M1 Garand. Carbines armed many airbases into the 1960’s and military advisors toted them in Southeast Asia in the early stages of our involvement there. They were provided to the Vietnamese whose small stature made it an appropriately convenient weapon.

The cartridge has been embraced and vilified since day One. Some soldiers loved the rifle and even lauded the performance of the round. Some rued the day they took up with the Carbine and found it to be unacceptably lacking in stopping power against a determined enemy. Like many military cartridges the truth probably lies somewhere in the middle.

The .30 Carbine “Mustered Out”

I’ve always had a high regard for the .30 Carbine round and have good luck with it. As a field cartridge it has proved adequate for critters up to 40-50 lbs. in weight. My dad never took his gun deer hunting when I was a kid because he never felt that he had the time or spare funds. He did lend his Carbine out to several friends who took deer with it. My brother-in-law Bo has taken five head of big game with his commercial Iver Johnson Plainfield .30 Carbine and experienced good performance with the cartridge. All but one were Texas whitetail deer and one was a aoudad ram. One of the deer struggled for 50 yards before expiring, but the rest pretty well dropped in their tracks. Bo is an excellent shot and these animals were properly hit, which perhaps says more about accurate shot placement than the .30 Carbine’s capabilities. It’s a bit of a stunt to take deer sized animals with a carbine.

As a kid I recall a time when my father was making war against a pack of feral dogs that was hanging around our place. One night he got after them with the M1 Carbine rather than a shotgun. I ran out of the house behind him in order to “see the show”. He ran down the hill a little ways from the house with the rifle and a dodgy D-cell flashlight. He stopped and raised the rifle with the flashlight held against the forearm. The carbine cracked and a feral dog was laid low from about 30 yards away, shot through the head with some Korean War Lake City ‘52 surplus ball ammo. I had not even seen the dog. I recall the crunching sound the dog’s shattered skull made when my dad rolled it beneath his foot. I supposed those FMJ’s hit pretty hard at that range to have shattered the dog’s skull like that.

I like the .30 Carbine so well that it represents my weapon of choice for my household defense. A Carbine loaded with a 15-round magazine of factory hollowpoints stands ready for instant use. Very maneuverable in hallways or stairwells, it provides plenty of short range punch in a compact, user-friendly package. I have a number of the 30 round “banana clip” magazines but consider them unwieldy, making the Carbine feel clumsy. Also, the 15-round magazine has the proper “look”.

After marriage, I bummed my dad’s Carbine for a few years but eventually obtained a carbine of my own, a worn but correct Underwood with a 10-43 barrel date. The finish may be worn but it is in good mechanical condition and so reliable it’s boring. That is another feature that makes me trust the Carbine for “repelling boarders” in my home. I’ve had the opportunity to shoot a number of carbines and they function dependably. Most Carbines are found with good bores unless they are re-imported weapons. U. S. Military ammunition was always loaded with noncorrosive primers, which helped preserve their bores to our benefit today. For the Carbine owner who intends to make serious use of his weapon, it is advised to function test it with any type of bullet other than the original full metal jacketed round nose load. My Underwood likes anything I feed it but my dad’s Quality HMC balks if fed anything but FMJ round nosed bullets. His Carbine feeds soft nose bullets fairly well but I wouldn’t depend on it for defense as occasional jams occur. Hollowpoints or flatnose bullets in his carbine? Don’t even go there! With FMJ it just will not jam. I’ve seen other carbines that displayed preferences and some that fed anything.

I handload for the .30 Carbine and have for many years. A limited range of powders is suitable for it. I’ve not revisited any propellants introduced since the late 70’s so can’t say how well they perform. Some look quite suitable and I hope a forum reader will share his experience with some of them. My favorite .30 carbine powder is H110, which I believe was originally designed for it. I’ve seen a cousin crack the gas tappet on a DCM Winchester produced carbine with hot handloads of 2400 so don’t push loads beyond prudence. The carbine is not an expensive gun to shoot if one handloads for it. I always find handloading rewarding anyway.

Carbine accuracy is as variable as Carbine preference for bullet styles. My carbine is capable of 1 1/2-inch, 5-shot groups at 100 yards from the bench while my dad’s will only print about 4 inch groups. Back when the Blue Sky imports were coming into the country for cheap, I was able to shoot an import carbine manufactured by IBM. It was funky looking with its light gray finish and was externally rough as a cob, but I shot a 1-inch group with it at 100 yards. I know this was a fluke because I couldn’t duplicate it with several other five shot groups fired that afternoon, but all were inch and a half if I did my part. The detachable top tang and the tightness of its retaining screw seem to have some bearing on the accuracy of the weapon. Some carbine stocks seem to be amply inletted yet perhaps due to usage and stock swapping both within and without of the military, carbines will be found that fit loosely in their stocks. These MAY exhibit less accuracy if this screw is tightened excessively to compensate for that looseness. This is only my personal theory. If a person can obtain 2 ½ inch groups at 100 yards he’s got an outstanding carbine.

I have shot the M1 Carbine in high-power competition on a couple of occasions just for fun. All shooting was done at 100 yards using reduction targets. One occasion was for a special Carbine match in which my wife also competed. 19 shooters fired their M1 Carbines. My wife placed 3rd. She was vexed at me as she would have placed 2nd except for the fact that I also entered the match and took first place with a score of 440/500. I was pleased as I had only made use of the thin issue web sling and the rifle is very light and whippy when fired offhand.

The M1 Carbine is the .30 Carbine cartridge’s reason for being but the round has been utilized in a few commercial designs that have been manufactured in quantity in some cases. Universal carbines were made for some years in good numbers to help keep up with demand for rifles of this type. Universal also marketed a short-barreled, pistol gripped variation called the Enforcer which was sold as a handgun. The Universal carbines, while externally resembling the “real deal” military original, differed internally. Conventional wisdom of the era considered these guns to be inferior to the original. Iver Johnson also marketed a replica carbine called the Plainfield. I’m uncertain if this was built on the old Universal design but was fairly popular in the mid 1980’s. My brother-in-law has one of these, which has been serviceable for him for 20 years now. Marlin produced its scarce Model 62 Lever action rifle in .30 Carbine (also in .256 Winchester Magnum) from 1962 To 1965. These have a bit of a cult following among Marlin collectors. One of the presidents of the Cleburne Gun Club had one of these little rifles and I fired it on one occasion. It was well made and accurate. I’ve always wondered if the Model 62’s chambering in .30 Carbine was a design outgrowth of an early 60’s military contract for Marlin to produce replacement barrels for M1 Carbines. There was an Auto Mag .30 Carbine auto pistol produced for a few years though I never saw one. Thompson Center Contender fans can purchase used .30 Carbine barrels for their handguns.

The most popular commercial .30 Carbine firearm has to be the Ruger Blackhawk so chambered. These have been available for many years now. My dad bought one as a companion piece for his rifle years ago and I have the fun of playing with it on occasion. They are a worthwhile firearms investment for those who want a sturdy, low recoiling, flat shooting revolver. The single action design makes a good home for the cartridge which headspaces on the case mouth. Ejection is simple, facilitated by punching the empties out with the ejection rod a la Colt SAA. The cartridge operates at around 40,000 psi so the Blackhawk offers simplicity and strength to handle it. The .30 Carbine Blackhawk is the handloader’s friend, offering a platform for more experimentation and tinkering than the original military rifle can provide. The Blackhawk, a T/C Contender, or one of the scarce Marlin rifles would be the natural home for the cast bullet shooter who wants to mold bullets for the .30 Carbine. I’m not interested in firing cast lead bullets through my M1 Carbine due to potential fouling of the gas system.

Performance Characteristics

The .30 Carbine offers a little less than 1000 foot-pounds of muzzle energy. This would seem to place it along side of the .44 Magnum on paper. Paper ballistics don’t tell the whole story of cartridge performance and most of us would rightfully rank the .44 Magnum handgun ahead of the .30 Carbine in effectiveness. An M1 Carbine more properly could more properly be described as similar in performance to a .357 Magnum. For hunting or defense use, expanding bullets are desirable. The FMJ military loading can offer surprising penetration and is said to exhibit extremely stable characteristics in striking and traversing a target. One of the writers for the gun rags wrote up a “test” supposedly debunking the myth of brush busting a few years back. He rounded up all the usual cartridge suspects having the reputation of being brush busters along with other hunting favorites and concluded that no cartridge really effectively cuts brush. He was surprised to find that the cartridge that was most effective in traveling through his dowel rod contraption and impacting the target with some semblance of accuracy was the .30 Carbine followed by the M193 ball 5.56 NATO. His “nontest” was similar to BMc’s contrived tests so be skeptical. Side note: I strongly dislike the notion of shooting through an intervening screen of brush at game. Pass on the shot until you have a clear view of your target. Always be certain of your target. No exceptions! I will brook no argument on this point. Hunting is a sport, game animals deserve respect, and once unleashed, bullets cannot be called back. You aren’t that desperate to bag your quarry. People die each year because hunters fire at brush. ‘Nuff said.

The .30 Carbine offers good velocity and flat trajectory when fired from a revolver. My limited experience indicates that expanding bullets expressly designed for .30 Carbine don’t really open up well when launched from a handgun. A .357 Magnum revolver offers the same velocities and its bullets typically expand better. My non-tests include firing into rows of one-gallon plastic jugs full of water, dry Fort Worth phone books, and the earth of the berm behind the target board. A handloader would be free to experiment with component bullets to remedy this malady. Small game and critters still drop readily to a .30 Carbine handgun. Too much is made of bullet expansion and a .30 Carbine handgun such as the Ruger Blackhawk is a good choice for many handgunning chores.

Ballistic Chart For the .30 Carbine

Factory Loads (rifle)
Remington 110 gr. FMJ: MV 1911 fps, ME 890
PC ’43 (Kings Mills Ordnance Plant) military ball 110 gr. FMJ: MV 1980 fps, ME 956
Lake City ’52 military ball 110 gr. FMJ: MV 1952 fps, ME 928

Factory Loads (handgun)
Remington: MV 1338 fps, ME 436
PC ’43; MV 1367 fps, ME 455
Lake City ’52: MV 1409 fps, ME 483

Handloads (rifle)
Speer Plinker 100 gr. Soft Nose: H110: MV 2029 fps, ME 912
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: H110: MV 1902 fps, ME 882
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: Win 296: MV 1870 fps, ME 852
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: IMR 4227: MV 1685 fps, ME 692
Sierra FMJ RN 110 gr.: 2400: MV 1813 fps, ME 801
Sierra Flat Nose HP 125 gr.: H110: MV 1794 fps, ME 894
Sierra Flat Hose HP 125 gr.: IMR 4227: 1563 fps, ME 678

Handloads (handgun)

Speer Plinker 100 gr.: H110: MV 1416 fps, ME 444
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: H110: MV 1382 fps, ME 469
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: Win 296: MV 1358 fps, ME 449
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: IMR 4227: MV 1196 fps, ME 348
Sierra FMJ 110 gr.: 2400: MV 1334 fps, ME 434
Sierra FN HP 125 gr.: H110: MV 1424 fps, ME 563
Sierra FN HP 125 gr.: IMR 4227: MV 1237, ME 425
Cast Lyman 130 Gr. Lead RN: Unique: 1275 fps, ME 468

Velocities taken with Oehler Model 12 Chronograph
Rifle used: Underwood mfg’d M1 Carbine
Handgun used: Ruger Blackhawk with 7 ½ inch barrel


Contractors Who Produced the M1 Carbine, numbers produced by each contractor, and percentage of total production by each contractor.

Inland: 2,632,097, 43%
Winchester: 828,059, 13.5%
Underwood: 545,616 8.9%
Saginaw Steering Gear: 517,212, 8.5%
National Postal Meter: 413,017, 6.8%
Quality Hardware Machine Corp.: 359,666, 5.9%
International Business Machines: 346,500, 5.7%
Standard Products: 247,100, 4%
Rock-Ola: 228,500, 3.7%
Irwin-Pederson: approximately 1000, .00016%

I’ve heard it said that some troops burned M1 Carbines like cord wood for warmth in the cold Korean winters. I’ve not seen this validated. If true, then this use of the M1Carbine fell outside the War Department’s original intent. The M1 Carbine and its cartridge has been used and misused many times throughout its 65-year existence. Its original purpose was to provide personal defense capabilities to military personnel. For this purpose it makes a viable alternative to the handgun. As a front line battle cartridge the .30 Carbine falls short in power and range. It won the popularity contest with many rifle-carrying soldiers due to its lightweight and compact design. Its performance against enemy troops was a matter of luck, and that luck was not always good. Though it has successfully taken large game animals it is too underpowered to reliably anchor them, therefore it has no place in the big game hunter’s battery of rifles. It is still a cartridge design that can be quite useful for hunting game up to deer, informal target shooting, or personal protection, that protection being its original purpose. It is a bit of U. S. weapons history that still may be enjoyed by shooters everywhere.

Obligatory Photographs

My Dad's Quality Hardware & Machine (top)
My Underwood (bottom)


That naval paint on the butt plate.

Addendum

Last weekend of the 2015-2016 whitetail deer season here in Texas I finally got around to taking a deer with the Underwood M1 Carbine and a handload using the Sierra 110 grain soft nose bullet over H110 powder. A small buck presented a broadside shot at 49 steps. The sights settled on his left shoulder and when the Carbine barked, he collapsed hard. The bullet broke the left shoulder passed through the center of the heart leaving a silver dollar-sized hole and broke the right shoulder upon exiting. It looked for all the world like he'd been hammered with a heavy .30-06 load. Effectiveness at short range could not be questioned.

Just last month my dad sent his Quality HMC M1 Carbine along home with me along with the Ruger .30 Carbine Blackhawk, telling me that "when I was finished with it" to pass it on to my youngest son who did a 5-year stint as a machinegunner in the Marine Corps including two front line deployments to Afghanistan. Son's still serving in active reserves so it looks like the Carbine will "go back to the Marines" one day.

Shot my Quality Hardware this evening with cast and jacketed bullets. My choice of powder is #2400.

Attached Images

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S&W Accumulator

My friend got a mini 15. We went to the range and I fell in love with it. If it were .30 carbine instead of .223 I'd go get one now.

I explained above that SD in the house is a LOT different from range or field.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"