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Old 05-31-2018, 01:23 PM
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Smile looking for 1911-22cal recomendations

Hello everyone,

I am looking for thoughts, ideas and recommendations for a 1911 type, 22 caliber handgun. It would be for a 13 year old boys first handgun.

American made would be my preference but would give consideration to all.


thanks to all for your thoughts and recommendations.


Harrydale
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:40 PM
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The Browning pistol gets good reviews but it's important to know that it's about 80% reduced size. I believe it is made in USA, and it costs more than most of the lower priced clones.

The GSG 1911-22 and Sig 1911-22 (same exact pistol, made by GSG) is a decent shooter and full size, a lot of fun for the money HOWEVER please know going in that it isn't an ultra-high quality "lifetime" handgun. The slide is Zamak, an extremely light metal (basically pot metal) and the pistol is accurate "enough" for fun but this is no match pistol. It's a fun plinker that is, IMO, better than the SR-22/Walther P-22/M&P-22 types of plinker rimfire pistols.

For more money, consider a dedicated rimfire upper on a standard 1911 lower. Prices and options vary, all will cost significant money approaching entry level .45cal 1911 pistols.

Chiappa makes a .22cal 1911 lookalike. It is a complete pile of junk, a warm cow pie is a better purchase at any price.

As to the subject -- first handgun for a 13 year old boy? In my opinion, skip all the 1911 style .22 pistols and simply get a Ruger Mark pistol. The Mark IV is the current model, leaving many used Mk III pistols looking for homes, and plenty of new old stock Mk III's with lower prices. Experience tells me (for sure!) that the Mark II was the absolute pinnacle of a phenomenal design, I would pay more money for a clean Mark II then I would even consider spending on any Mk III or Mk IV.

If the lure of a 1911 is driving this, I still say get a Ruger Mark pistol and have him work toward his first ever 1911 -- in .45cal. (or 9mm)
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:46 PM
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Browning 1911-22...is the one you want......which could lead to a Browning 1911-380.....which of course will lead to a full size 1911...45acp

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Old 05-31-2018, 01:49 PM
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Uh, yeah. Sevens hit the nail. I would suggest a Mark III 22/45 instead of a IV, but really, the way to go is to get a conversion upper for a 1911 if you have a .45-caliber 1911 with a good trigger.

I haven't seen a factory .22LR 1911 that rose above the "trashy potmetal plinker" category, and if you buy one of those, you're going to lose three quarters of whatever you spend on it. A good .22 conversion, on the other hand, generally sells for 90-100% of its new price. Guys will pay new money for used just to avoid the wait times.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:58 PM
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I have not seen all of the 1911 type .22RF options, but those that I have seen and shot are not impressive.
My suggestion parallels that of Sevens above. If you want to give a gift that lasts a lifetime or three, consider ponying up the funds to procure a decent 1911 (Colt Commercial, Argentine, USGI, etc), along with a Colt .22LR conversion kit. Give the 'converted' .22 as the first gift, then follow in a few years with the .45ACP parts. You get two substantial gifts for the young man, and later on down the road he can do the same with your grandchildren..... They will not wear out, and the 'value' will always be there if they are taken care of. Oh, and the above provides a real sweet shooting .22 as well....
If looking for economy, the Ruger is an excellent alternative.

The gift that keeps on giving - (The .22 Conversion is installed in these pictures.)
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:11 PM
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I have a GSG 1911-22 and am pleased with it.....
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STCM(SW) View Post
I have a GSG 1911-22 and am pleased with it.....
I've shot the GSG 1911-22 for years and i'm happy with it. i got aftermarket magazine followers for mine and now the magazines hold 14 rds. With one in the spout that makes it a 15 shot......Compatible with most 12 rifles capacity.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:07 PM
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A Colt Service Model 22 cal.would be a nice first gun.
Dick


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Old 05-31-2018, 04:35 PM
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I have to second the Ruger 22/45. Great sights, controls and grip angle / size basically the same as the 1911. If you have or are considering a suppressor, one that is already threaded would be the way to go. The lite version comes with a rail on top that you can easily remove but gives you option of a red dot, plus it's already threaded for a can. Different colors look cool too.


Ruger(R) Mark IV™ 22/45™ Rimfire Pistol Models

Ruger(R) Mark IV™ 22/45™ Lite Rimfire Pistol Models

The Browning Buckmark's are also very good. Same basic control layout as a 1911 as well. Triggers are great out of the box, great sights like the Ruger, and plenty of options as well.

Current Production
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:45 PM
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I'll post in a little more detail on the GSG 1911-22.

I wouldn't be too quick to write it off as not being an option. When I bought mine, I knew that it wasn't a "lifetime" gun before I even took delivery as my buddy had one. It came with a 2-year warranty and my goal was to attempt to shoot it to destruction before the 2 years was up, just to see if I could. I figured that I would be able to pound a brick through it on every range trip and I was going about once a month.

I got it beyond 5,000 rounds and my quest ended. The pistol did NOT balk, but the Sandy Hook shooting happened and all rimfire ammo vanished from store shelves. What had been $16 per 525 round bulk pack became almost twice the price if you could ever find it and I couldn't find any, so my quest ended.

Things I have learned in the time I have owned the GSG:

It will run a good while without a cleaning, I once took it to 1,100 without any maintenance except lube on the contact points. A schedule of 400-500 is optimal -- I believe there are two good reasons to NOT clean more often: First is that I don't believe the soft metal parts (especially the screw on right sude of frame that secures the barrel) should be fastened/unfastened more than necessary. And secondly, this pistol needs 30-40 shots after re-assembly to "work" back in to place and hit to point of aim. I have seen this every time I've taken it apart, this is real.

The sights look good and offer a fine sight picture but they are extremely low quality. If you need to adjust them, do so and do it carefully and don't do it again.

The OEM magazine disconnect stinks but it's simple to remove, mine went away immediately. The magazines are very high quality, they did not go cheap here and that is likely a big reason why it runs so well.

The frame isn't cheap metal like the slide, it is aluminum and while it isn't absolutely a center fire 1911 frame, it's extremely close and many (most?) 1911 parts work in it, which is very nice if you are a 1911 guy and you tinker with your 1911 pistols. You can't do that with the Browning.

The finish, especially on the slide is one of the absolute cheapest that I have ever encountered. This actually gives me a grin with mine -- a good gun that is low-buck, runs good and WOW it looks like it survived WWIII. But if it's looks are going to be associated with pride in a young man's first gun, this will be a problem. I believe it is possible that the Sig version might have a tougher finish -- but I wouldn't bet on it. This helps to reiterate the point that the GSG 1911-22 is a lot of shooting fun for the money, but it is a bad choice for an heirloom "pride" piece.

Ammo is always a big question with rimfire guns across the board. In my experience, Federal bulk packs (36gr plated) and Federal AutoMatch is what I have fed it successfully.

In my opinion, with a lot of hands-on, this pistol is a Bic lighter. A Bic lighter is low cost and works EVERY time to light a camp fire, grill or a smoke. But you don't showcase your Grandfather's Bic lighter, you don't expect envy from others when it appears and you toss it when it doesn't light anymore.
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:52 PM
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Werll I've had the Chiappa a d it's just a nice looking paper weight. As an fire narm you might want to actually shoot it is a ***. Not one redeemingn quality.

I have the Sig 1911-22 and it is a good shooter. Good triger.

BUT

It is very picky on what ammo works well in it. The best seems to be the CCi Mini-mag
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Old 05-31-2018, 04:57 PM
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If money is no object, then a Colt or Kimber 1911 .22 is a good choice, as is a quality conversion kit like the Marvell, Kimber, or Ceiner on a good 1911 frame.

Bang for the buck would be a Ruger or Buckmark, though not true 1911's in style.

For a reasonable price, I agree with Sevens the GSG 1911 .22 is a lot of gun for the money. I have one with at least 3 or 4 thousand rounds thru it, and it is very decently accurate, reliable, and nicely made. Most of all, affordable. They are the same gun as the more expensive SIG version, just cost less. My only complaint with mine is the grip safety is a little stiff, requiring a firm grip to fully depress it, but not a big deal. Pic of mine shown next to a Kimber .45 for comparison. These GSG's have a good reputation among actual owners / users.

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Old 05-31-2018, 05:04 PM
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I'll second or third the advice to stay away from the Chrappa or the Citadel that's made by Chiappa. My wife bought a Citadel for my son. It looks like a gun, but that's pretty much where the resemblance ends. It has never worked reliably with any ammo.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:10 PM
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Here's my solution - a Colt .22 caliber conversion unit. The floating chamber and its seat in the barrel do need to be scrubbed thoroughly after use, but the feel and operation of the original .45 does not change.

John

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Old 05-31-2018, 05:13 PM
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I too have been running a GSG 1911 hard and with 7 magazines I shoot hundreds of rounds everytime out at the range. Over 7000 and still shooting. There a few sites offering various upgrade parts for the gun ZR tactical and CW acessories are 2 of them. This upgrade ability could be an interesting facet for younger people as most things are now modular offering young people customization and or upgrade to thier guns or objects. Just know as other people have said its not an hierloom gun its a use it up and enjoy it gun.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:24 PM
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For a match quality gun, I have a Marvel conversion on a Springfield Armory "Loaded" lower. If you go this way, you'll really have two pistols in one. It just takes a couple of minutes to change from .22 LR to .45 ACP. I ordered a threaded barrel for my Marvel and it is a host for my Silencerco Sparrow. MARVEL PRECISION All the other .22's and conversions are plinkers. If you want something that can hit at 50 yards and beyond, the Marvel is capable.
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:25 PM
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thank you all VERY much for all the words of wisdom. It has given me some great ideas! I am continually impressed with the knowledge and lack of BS on this board. Appreciated very much.


Harrydale
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Old 05-31-2018, 05:53 PM
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Having fired several bricks through my GSG 1911-22 and tearing it down completely for inspection, I'd say look for a better quality for your boy's first.

What I found with my GSG is that it will soon need a sear and hammer. They're both very worn on the contact points and the decent trigger performance it had out of the box is going down hill fast.I also noticed the sear pin hole on the right side of the frame has become elongated and the pin moves considerably when I remove and apply pressure to the hammer when cocked. This could also be what's contributing to the worn parts and trigger performance. Looks like an oversized pin will have to be fit when I replace the sear and hammer. I'm not surprised as I knew this gun was of low quality when I purchased it.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:27 PM
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Indeed if you can find a Service Model Ace or an original conversion, that’d be the ticket. Might as well buy something that can be kept with pride for a lifetime.

I just bought this one a month ago, and was fortunate to only pay $ 600



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Old 05-31-2018, 06:48 PM
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Mine is yet another vote for a "real" 1911 with a 22 conversion kit. This could be a Colt Ace, any standard centerfire 1911 with one of the quality conversions (Ceiner, Marvel, etc). You could even build something up starting with a frame (Essex, Caspian, etc.)
Whatever choice you'd make you'd get these benefits:
-quality all steel construction
- a platform that uses conventional, and universal, spare parts
-the ability to upgrade to large calibers
-a lasting investment

The various 1911 inspired. 22s such as the Browning, Chiappa, etc are all made with very cheap alloys such as zinc based Zamak, aluminum, or plastic. When something breaks, and it will, you're gonna have to send it off for warranty repair, if it's even covered. If it's out of warranty, my bet is most gunsmiths won't touch it. They're really just toys.

Get a real 1911, and your son will treasure it and use it for life.

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Old 05-31-2018, 06:48 PM
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Default I like conversions

I talked my late father into buying a Ceiner conversion so we could compete in the rimfire portion of the bowling pins we did once a week during the winter back in my 20's (now over 50)... it was functional and OK for a plinker but not very competitive as a target pistol... since then I have gotten a few more... Sig conversion for 1911 & P226 and a Marvel 1911 conversion... the Sigs are very nice and work great and uses the same magazines as my Marvel which is just amazing factory tested to 3/4" group at 50 yards... so it depends on what you want the young man to learn... happy fun time skipping pop cans or competition target shooting... both are the source of great memories... good luck
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Old 05-31-2018, 07:11 PM
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Ruger MKII will probably fit his hand ok and magazines are easy to find and reasonably priced. Teach him how to strip and clean it right and it will last him a lifetime.
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wise_A View Post
Uh, yeah. Sevens hit the nail. I would suggest a Mark III 22/45 instead of a IV, but really, the way to go is to get a conversion upper for a 1911 if you have a .45-caliber 1911 with a good trigger.

I haven't seen a factory .22LR 1911 that rose above the "trashy potmetal plinker" category, and if you buy one of those, you're going to lose three quarters of whatever you spend on it. A good .22 conversion, on the other hand, generally sells for 90-100% of its new price. Guys will pay new money for used just to avoid the wait times.
Having a handful each of mark 3's and buck marks, my favorite 22 for plinking by far is one of the 'trashy pot metal plinkers'(spot on description)....
It definitely wouldn't be one I would gift a young shooter...: but, it's my favorite and by far the highest round count point and shoot cans pistols I have. Accurate NO, provides a thrill when the cans dance... YES!
I can't explain why? Made by Walther, I'd imagine it's a Zamak slide copy of the GSG 1911 22lr.
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Old 05-31-2018, 08:47 PM
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I literally wore out a Sig (GSG) 1911-22. At about 7500 rounds the slide stop notch peened away completely. Sig replaced the slide. I've not fired it much since, as we did pass through the .22 drought about that time.

It really wants CCI MiniMag SOLID POINT. HP will tend to jam on the split ramp. Eventually it decided it liked Blazer. It generally likes Remington Golden Bullet, but the hollow point can cause issues.

It HATES Federal Automatch and Federal Champion.

I also have a 22/45 Lite MKIV. No real concerns with it.
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Old 05-31-2018, 09:18 PM
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Nobody has yet mentioned the Armscor/Rock Island XT22. It's an all steel gun, although the top of the slide is cut away to reduce mass. Should last indefinitely. You can also get it as a combo with an extra .45ACP slide and barrel. Maybe not as pretty as a Colt but a hell of a lot less expensive.


Don't confuse it with a Rock Island .22TCM. That is a centerfire round that is much more powerful and expensive to shoot.


I have no personal experience with this gun. I do have a GSG1911 .22 that I think works just fine.

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Old 05-31-2018, 09:34 PM
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Default Rock Island XT22...

I bought one of these a few years back. Sort of a cross between a 1911 & a Beretta 92. All controls are 1911, slide is open top like the Beretta.
I've not had any issues with it, even before I modified it.


I have no problem recommending this to my friends.
I'm not sure what price range they are in now. Only thing it needs are some Crimson Trace grips.

Ned
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Old 05-31-2018, 10:07 PM
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My buddy bought the Rock Island referred to in the two posts above mine. We both like the weight, feel and (apprarance of) build quality but his pistol does -- not -- run.

He's pig headed haha and refuses to contact Rock Island, to him it is a challenge he intends to beat. Problem is that it's always on the back burner and too many projects.

Bummer, because if his had ran, I may have chased one myself. It simply won't get through a magazine and we've tried maybe a dozen different varieties of rimfire ammo.

Yeah, it looks odd and the open top slide showcasing the round barrel does indeed remind you of a Beretta 92. I find it curious that I almost never hear about these pistols. I'm hoping his is merely a lemon.
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Old 06-01-2018, 04:29 AM
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Kernel Crittenden Kernel Crittenden is offline
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I have the Browning Commander style M1911-22. I can recommend it whole heartedly. It's not inexpensive, but I promise you, it's the one you want. Built like a Swiss watch. Funner than a barrel of monkeys.
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Old 06-01-2018, 09:08 AM
Dirty Harry Callahan Dirty Harry Callahan is offline
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Walther makes officially licensed Colt .22cal 1911s in multiple configurations from GI to Gold Cup, and unlike most other .22cal 1911s, the Walther 1911s have an Aluminum slide as opposed to the typical ZAMAK slide.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:56 AM
S&W629 S&W629 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6string View Post

The various 1911 inspired. 22s such as the Browning, Chiappa, etc are all made with very cheap alloys such as zinc based Zamak, aluminum, or plastic. When something breaks, and it will, you're gonna have to send it off for warranty repair, if it's even covered. If it's out of warranty, my bet is most gunsmiths won't touch it. They're really just toys.

Jim
Your opinion of the Browning line of 1911-22...is misinformed.
The Browning 1911-22 and the 1911-380...are not made with "cheap alloys" unless you believe stainless steel is a "cheap alloy"....and yes the lowers are a polymer….but so are many other "plastic" autos....that are very reputable …..certainly not "toys"....
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Old 06-02-2018, 07:49 AM
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If you buy a .22 conversion kit for a 1911, you can have the best of both worlds. I bought a Jonathan Ciener conversion second hand. Came w/2 magazines. Will fit 45 caliber guns with no alteration. Mine is on a S&W. Performs great with no issues. Changes back and forth in a "jiffy". Bob
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Old 06-02-2018, 09:01 AM
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Provided you have a 1911 on hand I agree with the suggestions to get a conversion kit for now and when he comes of age finish off with a whole gun.
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Old 06-02-2018, 10:56 AM
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Another vote for the 1911 conversion. I have a Kimber .22 Conv. on a 1911, I built,(top) on a Caspian Frame and slide. THe acxtual Ser # is "Patriot40". Btw, 2 of JMB finest...lol






Btw I also have a .22 Conversion on my DPMS Panther, .223. I use it all the time on the Homestead, to dispatch squirrels to 150lb Goats. took about 10 head shots to take down a 800lb pig. It's just a bolt change out and Black Dog makes mags that fit right in.
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Old 06-02-2018, 04:19 PM
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Back before the GSG pistols came out, I was really wanting a decent 1911 .22. Was working at an LGS that moved A LOT of Kimber products.

Ordered and received a Kimber .22 RF Target and a few extra magazines.
Holding with my current opinion of Kimber, it seemed 'OK', but even with my discount seemed awfully expensive for the actual product.

Proceeded to shoot the daylights out of it. Lost count of the round count. Extremely accurate.

Then, feeding issues started cropping up, regardless of ammo brand.

A very close examination of the slide's breechface showed the formerly round recess for the cartridge head was now becoming elliptical through the peening of the many rounds fired. Important to note the ENTIRE slide on the Kimber .22 is aluminum. And, unlike GSG, they use no steel insert for the breech face. I'm no engineer, but that seems to be a glaring difficency.

I returned the pistol to Kimber for service, and in my accompanying letter noted that GSG used a steel insert for this area, obviously to address wear issues.
They replaced the slide and a few other parts. No mention of my GSG comparison.
Really, after seeing that, kinda soured me on their design and brand in general.

Shoot, what I really want is a M41 !
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Old 06-03-2018, 06:01 PM
Qc Pistolero Qc Pistolero is offline
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I'm not saying ''you should do this or that''but have you considered a good(used)High Standard?They can be found for around $500 and are very well made.They will last way more than a lifetime if cared for properly and I know more than one young man who would be proud to own it during his whole lifetime.
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Old 06-06-2018, 12:21 AM
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If you are looking for a well made 1911 in 22LR, then the Browning 1911/22 is the one. It's made in the U.S.A. It's the only 1911 I know of that disassembles exactly like a regular 1911. It's about 80% size of a standard 1911. It is also a lot of fun to shoot!

I have a conversion kit for my Kimber and it's nice to be able to shoot 22 through it, but I like the Browning better.

And yes, a Browning 1911/22 will set you back about $550-$600.

Below is a picture of a full size Kimber on top and the Browning 1911/22 on the bottom for size comparison



Just my two cents.
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Old 06-06-2018, 08:39 AM
Dirty Harry Callahan Dirty Harry Callahan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by S&W629 View Post
Your opinion of the Browning line of 1911-22...is misinformed.
The Browning 1911-22 and the 1911-380...are not made with "cheap alloys" unless you believe stainless steel is a "cheap alloy"....and yes the lowers are a polymer….but so are many other "plastic" autos....that are very reputable …..certainly not "toys"....
I've said it before and I'll say it again, anybody who calls any firearm a "toy" (even in jest) probably shouldn't own one of have any children because they fail to understand the inherently deadly nature of firearms and therefore are a danger to both themselves and others.
I don't care if they are just making exaggerated comments about the build quality of a particular firearm either, it's just a remarkably stupid thing to say about something as harmful/potentially deadly as a firearm, and I personally feel that those who make such statements are too lacking in due respect towards the inherent danger firearms possess, ergo they shouldn't be trusted to safely handle them.
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Old 06-06-2018, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qc Pistolero View Post
I'm not saying ''you should do this or that''but have you considered a good(used)High Standard?They can be found for around $500 and are very well made.They will last way more than a lifetime if cared for properly and I know more than one young man who would be proud to own it during his whole lifetime.
+1 - I have a Citation with the 1911 style grip frame and its a tack driver. Mag feed lips are your only concern.
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Old 06-07-2018, 12:40 PM
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Again thanks for the comments. I do appreciate them. Just as a kind of an update I think I have narrowed it down to two options. A Browning 1911-22 or a 22 conversion kit for a Ruger SR1911 that I already own. I'm probably gonna let the final decision be up to my Grandson. He has already shot my SR 1911 and I am going to take him to a LGS that has a Browning 1911-22 and let him see how he likes the "feel" of the Browning.
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Old 06-07-2018, 08:51 PM
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Kernel Crittenden Kernel Crittenden is offline
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Quote:
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.... I am going to take him to a LGS that has a Browning 1911-22 and let him see how he likes the "feel" of the Browning.
Make sure he sees both the Standard gun and the Commander. I chose the Commander and am very satisfied.
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Old 06-07-2018, 09:03 PM
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I have had a GSG 1911-22 for a few years, and have never had any problem with any supersonic ammo (haven't tried mini-mags). But I don't shoot it much anymore after I got the Kadet II kit for my CZ-75. It just sits in my safe.
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