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Old 07-04-2018, 04:26 AM
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Any body out there shoot 22 LR precision or long range matches? If so what rifle do you shoot and why. The club where I shoot has started a match where they shoot up to a 100 yrds at fairly small targets. I read where some matches are shooting 22s out to 250-300 yrds . I think I want to try this but I don't have a rifle. Thanks in advance for any and all replies.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:48 AM
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I shoot a CZ 453 American with a single set trigger that wears a Leupold 3-9 x 33 Ultra-light Scope with adjustable parallax feature and mounted with Burris Signature Scope Rings. I routinely shoot it at 100 yards (+ or - a couple of yards) when up at our hunting cabin when not actually out hunting. Years ago we got bored shooting paper targets and so we now shoot coins, Cigar Butts, Golf Balls, and pencils that are too small to be useful for writing any longer. We challenge each other (all 6 of my hunting buddies have either the same rifle as I do or Cooper's or Anshutz models. There is also an Apple Tree out at about that distance (maybe a few yards closer) that we shoot the Apples off by cutting them stem (not shooting the Apple itself). That is sort of a challenge as it's just about impossible to really see the stem and a bit of guess work is also required - BUT FUN! If one hits the Apple itself - they are disqualified.

I personally use CCI high velocity 40 grain ammo but some of the others use their favorite ammo which is usually Federal blue box 40 gr.

While this is not a "real sanctioned match" and we are not shooting at bullseye targets - it's a WHOLE LOT more fun!!

PS: IMHO the CZ 453 with the scope mentioned above is as accurate and consistent as any Anshutz I've tried - at least to me and that may well be because I am so use to it. Not bad mouthing Anshutz at all and it's a fine Rifle - but in my opinion over priced and the extra money gives little to nothing extra over the CZ 453 American (single set trigger feature) which has been sadly discontinued.

NOTE: Photo was of target shot at 75 feet (25yds) NOT 100yds but that is what I had on my iPhone.
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Old 07-04-2018, 05:07 AM
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I think the last round of 22 LR I fired was in 2001. The principles remain the same for rimfire as they do centerfire in terms of rifle construction. The part that differs is the choice of ammo.
Our supersonic offerings really don't exceed the speed of sound by much. As a result, it really doesn't get all that far before the shockwave catches up with it.
After the transonic point things get a little sketchy. This issue can be avoided with subsonic ammo that avoids this entirely, but then you have a trajectory that makes the 45-70 look like a flat shooting varmint cartridge.
Not to say this isn't fun to play with, it kinda is to be honest. But after a few past ammo crunches where 22lr was hit so brutally hard, I now avoid it. I'd rather finesse cast 30 cal. out to the same effect for it's reloadability. Ammo choice gets important as range increases
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:51 AM
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I don't know about "precision" shooting 22 LR, but I do know about fun shooting. The best I've been able to do at 25 yds recently was 13 shots that a dime would cover, with my old Marlin model 80 DL bolt action. I bought it used about 50 years ago. My wife shoots one of the Ruger 10/22's very well and we have fun competitions at the range with our daughter. The Ruger is the cheapest model they make and she shoots it like a pro. Both rifles like the Federal rounds that Walmart sells.

It's all about fun.

Have a blessed day,

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Old 07-04-2018, 07:19 AM
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I have a CZ 452 American with a Weaver 6-24 mounted. I'm trying to learn rimfire bench rest technique as a local club has ARA matches and I want to enter but trying to come up to speed first indoors before going out to start doping the wind. The bench rest target is really tough. The 10 ring is just the size of the bullet. An X must be a clean 10.

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Old 07-04-2018, 09:31 AM
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I used to plink at absurdly long range with a 22. I have an extremely accurate Marlin 880 SQ (killed a fly at 50 yards when it landed on my target) with a Unertal 12x scope. The scope has precise external micrometer adjustments. That combination along with a range finder and a range card that showed scope settings in 5 yard increments out to 400 yards was enormous fun in the desert...where you could easily spot bullet strikes.

Ed
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:07 AM
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I shot in NRA smallbore competition for several years, Prone matches at 100 yards. I used an Anschutz 1407 match rifle (because I had it from years back) and mounted a Unertle 20X 1 1/2" target scope. For ammo, yo need to search out what ammo groups best from your particular gun. 22RF are finicky that way. I had a batch of Fiocchi 320SM Super Match that grouped wonderfully from my gun and I had squirreled away a quantity dedicated to just that rifle. The rifle/ammo was capable of 1/4" (5 shot) groups at 100 yards from a bench rest (with no wind). If I recall correctly my best match was 396 of a possible 400 point match. It is very demanding and you need to be able to dope the wind.

We shot the NRA 3 bull targets, top for a shghter and two bottom bulls for score. Here's a few of my prone targets.


Have fun.
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Old 07-04-2018, 10:20 AM
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22LR can be a lot of fun for plinking, buddy challenge, etc at the longer ranges. We shoot a lot of steel, just for fun at 50-200 yards. mostly 50-125 yards and have gongs at 200. Stay with the Standard velocity for better accuracy and the CCI standard velocity is a great economy brand for consistent accuracy. Wolf and SK match are great accuracy for the price and we are having great luck with Eley Club. I would recommend a 425 or 455 CZ for the accuracy level for the cost of acquisition.

Looking for a fun challenge for eliminate boredom? buy a pack of the kids multicolored balloons and pin on sticks or cheap target frames with string and cloth pins at various ranges, out as far as you desire and challenge buddies to "pop the balloon". I have competed in the registered RF matches years ago, but have way more fun now, shooting the RF at longer ranges at odd ball targets. Want to impress friends, lean the hold over for 200 yards and bust balloons at 200 yards with your guns. You will get funny looks when you start doing this with some consistence with a hand gun. I find ringing steel with a 22RF a very highly addictive activity and it gets worse if you have a suppressor when all you hear is the ding of the steel.

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Old 07-04-2018, 10:30 AM
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Winchester 52D, fixed 20X scope and Remington 22 shorts match grade .... our USAF teams favorite ...... brought home the Pewter Mug in the two man prone 50/100 yard fun day at El Monte in the late ‘60s.
Lofting lead is appropriate.
A good glove helps.
Shooting with a partner that runs a 22-250 everyday to keep some critters from digging holes and breaking the cattle/horses legs..... also helps if a beer mug is the prize.
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Old 07-04-2018, 11:14 AM
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Try that new Ruger Precision someone just posted pics of. Does look awesome.
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Old 07-04-2018, 11:49 AM
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I use a pre A Winchester Model 52 (1933 vintage) with a 20X Leupold scope in 50 yard IBS matches and 100 yard beach rest matches at my club. For serious matches use weight and rim thickness sorted Lapua Center X ammo. The sorting makes a huge difference in the IBS scores and 100 yard group size.

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Old 07-04-2018, 12:02 PM
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Some good rifles mentioned...... we shot Winchester 52s when I was on the High School rifle Team (Decades ago) and Anshutzs in College.

Today (since 2011) I've been very pleased with my CZs.... best bang for the buck in both rimfire and centerfire rifles IMHO.

If you could find a CZ 453 heavy barrel varmint (single set Trigger) in .22lr IMO it would be the best of the CZ models..... for what you want to do........ a good 16 X or better scope will be needed.

My 452 FS/mannlicher in .22 magnum will shoot under the heavy cross hairs of it's 1-4x20 Leupold scope at 100yds (off the bench)..... the best groups have been in the .8-.9 range..... it's my walking in Penn's Woods rifle.

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Old 07-04-2018, 12:42 PM
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It's a lot of fun and quite challenging to shoot 22LR at distance. My club runs long-range silhouette matches. We shoot metallic animal silhouettes at 50 m, 100 m, 150 m and 200 m. Typically the 50 m chickens are shot standing, but the longer distances are prone. With that said, this is a non-sanctioned "fun" match so some folks will shoot from the bench or use other schemes. The great thing is that it gets some of the older folks out to shoot. Some of them have trouble getting into prone position or aren't all that steady in standing anymore. No matter, they come out and shoot how they want and have fun doing so. Awards are not given, just bragging rights. And we only compete against ourselves. If I do better than last time, great! If not, I had a great time trying.

I use a CZ 452 Varmint with a Harris bipod up front and a monopod in the rear. The trigger in the 452 wasn't very good so I installed a Timney. I considered the kits to tweak the 452's trigger, but didn't mess with them. Scope is a 6.5 x 20 Leupold. The variable is nice since I can go 20x prone and dial down to 8x or so for standing. There was inadequate elevation adjustment for a 22 at 200 m so I mounted it on a 20 MOA base. The 22 slug is dropping rapidly at 200 m. For example, it drops about 18" between 200 yds and 200 m! Some of the 30 mm tube scopes have enough adjustment built in. YMMV.

Ammo is critical. I'm currently using Eley Target. It's not so much about being sub- or super-sonic, but muzzle velocity variation. I have proved with a chronograph that small velocity variations result in large vertical stringing at 200 m.

And then there's the wind. A slight puff will blow your 22 around, so you learn to keep on eye on the flags, the grass and the mirage. I'm beginning to believe that spin-drift is getting into the picture too. I have to click in windage at increasing distances - even in a dead calm. I thought my scope might have been canted, but I sure can't confirm it. So my sight settings include both windage and elevation.

I don't think you'll go wrong with a CZ. They're not hugely expensive and are very accurate. Sure, there are lots of alternatives. We had one guy come out with his 10-22 and a cheap 4x scope. He hit a few targets and got hooked. Then he said he was going rifle shopping. So my suggestion is get a bolt-action 22 that you can use a lot of different purposes. I'd advise against a plinker although some are astoundingly accurate. Get a good variable scope with repeatable adjustments.

I think you'll enjoy yourself!
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:08 PM
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One of the clubs I shot at held 100 yard .22 matches (scopes or iron sights) for a few years but its hard for us older guys to shoot a lot of prone so most of the shooters lost interest after a while. I brought out my Winchester 52B and used it with iron sights with pretty good results.

Recently I bought a Savage MkII FVT. It seems to be a real good entry level rifle. I've only shot it indoors at 30 yards with iron sights but its capable of good groups with standard velocity .22s.
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Old 07-04-2018, 01:21 PM
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Shooting a high-quality .22 rifle for accuracy is one of life's great pleasures. My favorite is the Winchester Model 52-C. To me it has all the bells and whistles. It has the micro-motion trigger, and it is the last 52 iteration made as a repeater. They are hellish accurate.

Here's a snapshot of mine at the range.





And here's one of the tiny 5 shot bughole groups I fired at 50 yards that day.






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Old 07-04-2018, 01:24 PM
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My Mod. 52 doesn't very often wear glasses, but when it does, here's how it looks:




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Old 07-04-2018, 01:44 PM
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In reality, any time a round goes bang, IT IS FUN! If you want to beat other people? That cost more money and is usually less fun!

I sold my best target rifles. One is the "affordable" Kimber Government Model in the $700 and up class. The other was a late 60's early 70's Anschutz 1903 prone rifle (Nothing like a 1903 Springfield!) off of a rest, it would hit shotgun shells in the primer 80%+ on the first shot at 200 yards using a 30 Leupold M8 target scope and Eley ammo it liked.

If you are going to compete; 1) you need to know the rules and classes. Not that you would cheat, but others will! 2) money flows like water away from your wallet! 3) There is always someone better than you are. If not this week, then Next week! 4) If you got beat, there is always next week, or year! 5) YOU CANNOT BUY ENOUGH GOOD EQUIPMENT TO WIN! YOU MUST PRACTICE AND THEN PRACTICE MORE!!!!!

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Old 07-04-2018, 02:01 PM
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While I cannot day that I compete in .22 matches, I do shoot and try to “best my last group” at 50 and 100 yards fairly regularly. Savage makes a version of their Mark II with a heavier barrel and a great set of target sights (model designation escapes me at the moment). Shoots very well and doesn’t bust the bank account.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:24 PM
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If you are not careful, you learn something everyday. At 100 yards any more, I need a scope - I see some pictures with iron sights. Sounds like fun. Thank you for posting.
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Old 07-04-2018, 04:48 PM
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Does anyone here have range time with the Ruger precision rimfire? I have several Rugers but have not been very happy with their stock triggers. I think I'm suffering from information overload there are so many CZs and Savages to chose from. The Anschutz and Winchesters seem to get out of my price range. My head hurts.
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Old 07-04-2018, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleCooner View Post
22LR can be a lot of fun for plinking, buddy challenge, etc at the longer ranges. We shoot a lot of steel, just for fun at 50-200 yards. mostly 50-125 yards and have gongs at 200. Stay with the Standard velocity for better accuracy and the CCI standard velocity is a great economy brand for consistent accuracy. Wolf and SK match are great accuracy for the price and we are having great luck with Eley Club. I would recommend a 425 or 455 CZ for the accuracy level for the cost of acquisition.

Looking for a fun challenge for eliminate boredom? buy a pack of the kids multicolored balloons and pin on sticks or cheap target frames with string and cloth pins at various ranges, out as far as you desire and challenge buddies to "pop the balloon". I have competed in the registered RF matches years ago, but have way more fun now, shooting the RF at longer ranges at odd ball targets. Want to impress friends, lean the hold over for 200 yards and bust balloons at 200 yards with your guns. You will get funny looks when you start doing this with some consistence with a hand gun. I find ringing steel with a 22RF a very highly addictive activity and it gets worse if you have a suppressor when all you hear is the ding of the steel.
The National Forest ranges that I use to not allow metal targets. I find balloons a lot of fun and a nice change up from paper targets with my .22s at 50 and 100 yards.
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:05 PM
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There was a shooting group near me (somewhere just off Cape Cod), that had rimfire matches using eggs. Ranges, from memory, went from 100 to, I believe, 200 yards.

Never participated, but was told some of the rifles used were scary accurate.

Rich
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Old 07-04-2018, 06:26 PM
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I have several extremely accurate .22's in the safe that I have shot matches out to 100 yards with. A tricked out heavy barrel Ruger 77/22, Anschutz and my personal favorite are two Remington 541 HB's. They wear Weaver 4 X 16 scopes with a special super fine cross hair and AO. One shoots Wolf Match extra the best and the other shoots Federal match the best. I really enjoy shooting the metallic silhouette matches out to 100 yards off hand. You need a very good, accurate rifle, but you also need to be very good and accurate!

That being said, I ran about 350 rounds through one of my Marlin model 39's at 100 yards last week. Made a pretty good showing of myself. That rifle wears a Lyman micro adjustable peep sight.

The most enjoyable fun game that we do with .22's is to shoot Necco wafer candy disks at 100 yards. Take a 2 X 4 and run a skil saw down it to make a slot. Stand the wafers up in it and have at it. Instant gratification when you hit them and they are bio degradable.
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Old 07-05-2018, 01:06 AM
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"I shot in NRA smallbore competition for several years, Prone matches at 100 yards. I used an Anschutz 1407 match rifle (because I had it from years back) and mounted a Unertle 20X 1 1/2" target scope. For ammo, yo need to search out what ammo groups best from your particular gun. 22RF are finicky that way. I had a batch of Fiocchi 320SM Super Match that grouped wonderfully from my gun and I had squirreled away a quantity dedicated to just that rifle. The rifle/ammo was capable of 1/4" groups at 100 yards from a bench rest (with no wind). If I recall correctly my best match was 396 of a possible 400 point match. It is very demanding and you need to be able to dope the wind."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Let's get real about 1/4" groups at 100 yards with a .22 LR. First, you do not say how many shots in your group, and that is a very, very important consideration. But let's talk facts.

Back in 1954, the Western Cartridge Co. performed extensive accuracy testing of Western Super Match ammunition using a fixed match grade barreled action (unstated, but probably a Winchester 52). The test involved firing 100 10-shot groups at 100 yards on an indoor range. The average group ES of those 100 groups was 1.031". The largest single group was 1.45", the smallest was 0.6". To convert these to 5-shot group ESs, multiply by 0.8, i.e., the average 5-shot group would be expected to be about 0.83" under the same firing conditions. All this information was presented in George Frost's book, "Making Ammunition" (unfortunately out of print). George Frost was the technical director at Western back then. Match ammunition and rifles today haven't been dramatically improved over what they were in 1954.

I have also experimented using a wide variety of cartridge makes and types in my personal Winchester Model 52B rifle with a 10X Unertl scope at both 50 and 100 yards from a sturdy bench rest. I don't remember ever getting results any better than those found in the Western tests, and for the most part, my better groups were not as good, typically 1.25"-1.50" (average ES of five 10-shot groups at 100 yards).

I would never use anything less than 10 shot groups for definitively assessing accuracy (average group ES), and even then, using the average of no fewer than 5 groups to achieve statistical reliability. Judging accuracy performance using 5-shot groups is a waste of time and ammunition unless you are prepared to fire 25-30 groups. The variation in ES of 5-shot groups is far greater than the variation of 10-shot groups.

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Old 07-05-2018, 08:09 AM
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In the year 2000 the .22LR Benchrest records were
Single 10 shot group 100 yards .598
Eight 10 shot groups 100 yards .8411

I'm having a hard time finding the current records but they are quite a bit smaller. I'll post them when I find them.

Stu
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:36 AM
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"Only" 5 shot-groups...but (IMHO / perhaps) still interesting:
http://www.accurateshooter.com/guns-...mparison-test/

Here is the "whole thing" with more pics:
Testing .22 LR ammo In A Bleiker Rifle - Updated With Targets - Topic

ELEY Ammo Test pics (from the BR 50 side):
Benchrest BR50 Schießen -ELEY-AMMO-TEST-Engand-

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but you need a ammo your weapon likes...
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Old 07-05-2018, 02:12 PM
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Interesting results above, and they are pretty much in line with Western's 1954 tests when average ES is corrected for number of shots per group. The big problem with using the average ES of five 5-shot group ESs is statistical reliability (statistical significance) - it just ain't there with such a small number of groups. Statistical significance of the average ES of five 10-shot group ESs is much greater. Twice the ammunition produces much more reliable grouping results.

Another way to look at it is this - the standard deviation (SD) of a number of average ESs of five 5-shot groups will be approximately 13% of the mean group ES (from computer statistical modeling results). For five 10-shot groups, the corresponding SD will be <5% of the mean group ES. This is because that firing a single 10 shot group is the equivalent of firing 252 5-shot groups. That is correct, 252 5-shot groups. From a single group of 10 shots, you can make 252 different possible 5-shot group combinations. This is why I said that firing a small number of 5-shot groups for accuracy testing is a waste of time and ammunition if someone is really serious about making comparisons among various guns and/or ammunition types. All it's good for is zeroing your sights.

BTW - different types/brands of ammunition may rank differently in grouping performance when fired from different guns, i.e., some guns just seem to "like" different types/brands of ammunition better than others. In Frost's book (mentioned earlier) he also discusses this. In my case, my Winchester 52B has a definite preference for CCI standard velocity, which it shoots better than any other, including all brands of match ammunition I have tried. Federal American Eagle (40 grain HV) is also a pretty decent performer in my 52B despite its economy price.

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Old 07-05-2018, 07:43 PM
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I shoot a CZ 453 American with a single set trigger that wears a Leupold 3-9 x 33 Ultra-light Scope with adjustable parallax feature and mounted with Burris Signature Scope Rings. I routinely shoot it at 100 yards (+ or - a couple of yards) when up at our hunting cabin when not actually out hunting. Years ago we got bored shooting paper targets and so we now shoot coins, Cigar Butts, Golf Balls, and pencils that are too small to be useful for writing any longer. We challenge each other (all 6 of my hunting buddies have either the same rifle as I do or Cooper's or Anshutz models. There is also an Apple Tree out at about that distance (maybe a few yards closer) that we shoot the Apples off by cutting them stem (not shooting the Apple itself). That is sort of a challenge as it's just about impossible to really see the stem and a bit of guess work is also required - BUT FUN! If one hits the Apple itself - they are disqualified.

I personally use CCI high velocity 40 grain ammo but some of the others use their favorite ammo which is usually Federal blue box 40 gr.
I also have a 453. I used it to cut the weeds on my hill about 30 yards away. I have video of cutting small blades of grass with a Marlin 60 at that distance and it is not nearly as accurate as my CZ. It's actually an accurate rifle for a semi-auto but the CZ is just something else. But it is not the most accurate rimfire I own. That would be my Savage MkIIBTV. It is just slightly more accurate but every bit counts. Once you get to a certain point a slight advantage is a big thing really.

Still I love the CZ. It's a beautiful rifle and very well made in addition to being very accurate.

I've done a good bit of competition shooting at 50 yards. Actually I won 13 of the last 15 contests I was in. The other two required off hand shooting without a scope and my eyes aren't what they once were and my back is much worse. I just can't hold a rifle steady like I could at one time.

Here's a couple of groups I shot. The first one is a 5 shot group at 50 yards with the CZ. The second is just a 4 shot group (also at 50 yards) because I ran out of ammo when I was shooting it. I shot the second one with the Savage. These are about my best groups but I've shot quite a few like these. I can post more. It's not the average group or anything. It just shows what can be done.




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Old 07-05-2018, 08:29 PM
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I have four 22 rifles. All mounted with scopes. Here is how I rank them in order of accuracy however all are better than I am probably able to shoot them. The top 2 have longer barrels than the other two.
1. 1958 Marlin Golden 39A
2. 1977 Remington 572 (pump)
3. S&W 15-22
4 Late model Marlin Model 60.

Hope to add a nice bolt action at some point.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:23 AM
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Have several CZ 452s, and they are all very accurate at fairly reasonable price. Recently bought savage Mark II with 16in threaded barrel that equals the cz's accuracy, but not overall quality, at much lower cost.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:56 AM
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OK I'm taking a hard look at the Savage Mark II BTV or BTVS with thumb hole stock. THE SS barrel IS $50 more. I prefer the look of blued steel. Other than maintenance what are some pros and cons of carbon steel vrs SS?
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Old 07-06-2018, 01:33 PM
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I haven't had any rust issues my Savage MkIIBTV. I've had it about 10 years or so.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:58 PM
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Cz 452 or Cz 455 Ultra Lux - Ultra Lux has a longer barrel and with the ammo that it likes, they're scary accurate - even with iron sites. Finding the proper ammo is key small groups. Bulk ammo is very accurate, too.
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