Sig 320 ADs: 500,000 Defective Guns Are Out There, Folks

[Bullseye 2620]

This story from CNN is worth reading in its entirety. Several LEOs have been wounded because of ADs resulting from a defective trigger group. Sig repaired the 320s that were going to the military, but apparently did nothing proactively to correct the problem in the 500,000 of these pistols destined for the civilian market. Most of them are still out there.

Gun manufacturer waited months to warn the public its pistol could fire when dropped - CNN

also see this:

YouTube

[pawngal]

I had one and sold it shortly after the upgrade was announced Was sure to tell the buyer about it.

The key is Don't drop your gun! It isn't the only one the will fire if dropped. Local gun show promoter had a Magnum Research 1911 fall out of his piece of **** holster at the gun show and it fired. Couple of people were slightly wounded.

Consider the CNN source..........

[paulh]

Mine was returned for the upgrade. They contacted me about it.

[Old_Cop]

I am sure that the number is less than 500,000 since the upgrade has been in effect for 8 or 9 months. I don't expect that Sig will release the number repaired. I am always wary when CNN is reporting on a story almost a year old.

[LoboGunLeather]

CNN is now a source we can rely upon for firearms-related reporting?

[Bullseye 2620]

Folks, the reason I posted the video clip from Omaha Outdoors was to confirm CNN's reporting from a demonstrably pro-gun source.

The story has been confirmed by many others, but there are still a lot of potentially dangerous guns out there. The goal is not to pillory Sig Arms, or CNN for that matter, but rather to encourage anyone who may have one of these guns to send it back for the repair without delay. After looking at the x-ray of that Virginia sheriff's femur, I was very much concerned and I have called two friends who I know own these guns to make sure that they know about the problem.

There is only a 6% difference in the weights of the new (safe, lighter) triggers and the old ones. What a difference a few grams makes.

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather

CNN is now a source we can rely upon for firearms-related reporting?

I actually didn’t take the whole thing seriously until I read that CNN story, which was very well researched and had a lot of first-hand information from departments actually affected. Up to then it had mostly been discussed in the firearms blogosphere which is overpopulated by people who copy rumors from each other to have enough to write about.

[JayFramer]

Well at least the slides aren't flying off and decapitation Navy SEALs like that OTHER service pistol...

[LVSteve]

Isn't this old news and Sig have the solution? So somebody managed to find an unmodified gun that still AD'd at the PERFECT angle. Big. Deal.

[Absalom]

Originally Posted by bushmaster1313

Please explain the mechanics of the problem

If you watch the video from Omaha Outdoors, the answer is not mechanics, but simple physics. It is rather flabbergasting to watch the slo-mo footage.

At the specified angle (which is not part of the official drop tests and thus was missed), the force vectors working on the trigger are such that the momentum of the trigger’s mass keeps it moving sufficiently when the gun stops. Boom.

Reduce the trigger’s mass = problem solved. Isaac Newton can go home

[TAROMAN]

CNN is the last source I would ever look to for firearms information.
Weren't they the ones pushing the "plastic Glock invisible to metal detectors" story?
Their weapons guide for accurate reporting:

[bigwheelzip]

My in-law's new neighbor in Florida mentioned he had one of those SIGs. When I told him about the problem, his response was "it works fine for me", and he had no intention of sending it in. Probably a lot of folks like that.

[Bullseye 2620]

Originally Posted by TAROMAN

CNN is the last source I would ever look to for firearms information.
Weren't they the ones pushing the "plastic Glock invisible to metal detectors" story?
Their weapons guide for accurate reporting:

Here's two pictures that tell more of the real truth than that so-called "weapons guide." They're of Deputy Sheriff Marcie Vadnais of Loudon County, Virginia and her shattered right femur which resulted from a defective SIG 320:

[Papa32129]

Only Sig has the correct number. My Fire control unit has been upgraded and my original slide and grip module. Upgraded.

Separate X change kits also have to be upgraded.


Papa

[paulh]

Did she drop it?

[Scorpion520AZ]

In 2018 it's inexcusable for any field duty-issue handgun to discharge when dropped from any height at any angle on any surface.

[Bullseye 2620]

Originally Posted by paulh

Did she drop it?

According to the Loudon County Sheriff's Office, she was merely removing the weapon from its holster when the AD occurred. There's more detail in the papers filed in the pending lawsuit.

[paulh]

That's a hard pill to swallow. Glad mine is pointing away from me in the bedpost mount

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by BlueRidgeBoy

According to the Loudon County Sheriff's Office, she was merely removing the weapon from its holster when the AD occurred. There's more detail in the papers filed in the pending lawsuit.

Well if the weapon wasn't dropped it seems to be an entirely new problem. Are we SURE it wasn't operator error or bad holster design? Lots of Youtube chatter about Serpa holsters being cursed when it comes to ADs. IIRC the shooting school out here has banned them on their courses.

[Absalom]

According to the CNN report, there are several separate cases being litigated. You can bet that both sides in each case will bring in expertise at levels way above internet forum analysis. If it is any problem besides the gun, Sig will make sure everybody hears about it.

[ladder13]

Upgrade? Is that what they call it?

[paulh]

Sorta like my line, appliance repair. Seldom a recall unless there's a fire, so it's a "rework"

[jtcarm]

Another reason to carry a DA revolver

[jlrhiner]

My best friend bought one last year. When I first heard about the issue, I brought him up to speed. He contacted SIG, They told him they were getting to them as fast as they could. Sent him a pre-paid mailer, he sent it back to them, @5 weeks turn around.

I'd say they handled it pretty well.

[Watchdog]

It amazes me that some people can't put aside their prejudices against CNN when they report on something that's obviously true, something that a lot of us have known about since last year.

The gun world was aware of this problem before Sig even acknowledged it. Sig (finally) admitted there was a problem sometime in 2017, I believe.

Do some of y'all think CNN's just making this stuff up...imagining the things that have already been verified by multiple sources?

My question to Sig has to be that if there's even the slightest bit of doubt as to the pistol's safety, why haven't they issued a recall on the unrepaired pistols, many of which are still being sold in LGSs, gun shows, and over the Internet.

This particular issue does make me a bit leery of any Sig product...with the exception of the older pistols.

[Doug M.]

The problems are old news and were well known in the serious firearms folks, but a lot of folks (including on this forum) did not want to hear about it. It was very heavily discussed in the LE subform of a restricted access forum, and some very serious and smart people were involved in trying to report this, but got ignored and abused by SIG.

Sig's history of such conduct with design and QC problems goes back well over a decade; it was heavily discussed on the old 10-8 forums IIRC.

[paulh]

I don't get it. All the digs on SIG. They contacted me to return my 320 for the rework to fix the problem. I can't complain about that.

[Farmer17]

There's a big reason that Glock, M&P, Springfield, and most other striker fired pistols, especially without thumb safety's, have that "thingy" on the trigger that prevents the trigger from moving unless it is depressed first. Sig is now installing a new trigger that is a few grams lighter in mass to prevent the trigger from moving if dropped, but this doesn't really give me a lot of confidence.

[Doug M.]

Originally Posted by paulh

I don't get it. All the digs on SIG. They contacted me to return my 320 for the rework to fix the problem. I can't complain about that.

*
The knew about it, denied it, hid it and then were allowed to fix it to continue in the DOD testing. Don't be too shocked if some O-6 or higher officers go out with really awful OERs and a demotion to O-5 if they served successfully at that rank ... if they are lucky, without being convicted of felonies. This is WAY worse than is generally known or portrayed. At best, it ranks up with the EoTech mess, for which there should have been prosecutions, not just civil settlements for the fraud.

[Texas Star]

I checked on Dallas police sidearms this week, and they have banned SIG P-320's on the force. I think they had good cause.

Other SIG items are okay there and the P-226 with rail and (I think) DAK trigger is standard. Calibers are 9mm or .357 SIG. As the 9mm ammo issued is subsonic 147 grain, I think I'd choose .357 SIG.