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07-02-2018, 12:36 AM
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Bought My First Colt
I bought my first Colt ever! A 1937 Officer's Model Target with heavy 6" barrel, to go along with my 1937 Outdoorsman. Well at least that is the only story, I can come up with, lol!
My FFL who is a Colt Cool Aid drinker, sends me an auction link and tells me it would be a great gun to start a Colt collection with, lol, again. I'm a dyed in the wool Smith guy, so there's no way after decades of Smiths will I become a "Colt Guy". Both great American guns!
Anyhow it should be interesting to compare side by side, shooting both. The Colt has the perceived advantage of the heavy (optional) barrel, hand fitted and finished action.
Whatta you guys think?
Last edited by Kingspoke; 07-02-2018 at 12:44 AM.
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07-02-2018, 12:40 AM
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Some more pics
Here's a few more pics for comparison.
Last edited by Kingspoke; 07-02-2018 at 12:46 AM.
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07-02-2018, 12:54 AM
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Shooting those will be a fun comparison, I doubt there is much difference in quality (both being top notch revolvers). Let us know how they shoot.
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07-02-2018, 01:07 AM
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Congratulations, those are both wonderful revolvers. Thank you for sharing them with us. I think that you may have to resign yourself to a new addiction. Though there are differences, both are the product of the golden age of American industrial craftsmanship. There will never be anything like them again, ever. Current production handguns are certainly adequate, and the metallurgy may even be better, but those two guns that you show are hand fitted and are like Swiss watches.
Beautiful.
Best Regards,mLes
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07-02-2018, 03:11 AM
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Good lookin' Colt!
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07-02-2018, 07:47 AM
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I like that Colt a lot, especially the checkered backstrap. I wouldn't give a lot of thought to "comparing" the Smith and the Colt. Both are excellent examples of gunmaking when true craftsmanship was the rule, rather than the exception.
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07-02-2018, 09:50 AM
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I predict you will enjoy shooting that Colt. As everyone else has said they’re both great guns.
Regards,
turnerriver
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07-02-2018, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troystat
Shooting those will be a fun comparison, I doubt there is much difference in quality (both being top notch revolvers). Let us know how they shoot.
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Thank you! Will do! I'm pretty excited to experience shooting both side by side. Of course, I'll love them both no matter what my experience is, as they both have a classy presentation and quality.
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07-02-2018, 11:03 AM
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Les, well said! The craftsmanship and history are so attractive to me, but did you have to add that part about a new addiction!
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07-02-2018, 11:08 AM
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Thanks for all the observations and comments guys! All appreciated! I will add to the thread when I take them to the range.
It's always very exciting when you get a new member to the collection, and this one will be a totally new experience. I have great appreciation for American handgun craftsmanship. I also really love these pre war revolvers.
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07-02-2018, 11:33 AM
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Les recently acquired a Colt also, that's OK. Adding a quality Colt won't erase the memory banks of your S&W knowledge.
Let us know how the range trip goes.
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07-03-2018, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bakebfr480
Good lookin' Colt!
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Thanks! The previous owners sure took great care of this one, and I will carry on that tradition for the next owner. Love these prewars!
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07-03-2018, 08:10 AM
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You have committed no sin. Although Smiths are number one in my heart, there is a place for Colts. Left to right:
.44 large frame - HE 2nd, New Service
.38 medium frame - K38, OMT
.32 medium frame - K32, OMT
.22 medium frame - K22, OMT
.32 small frame - HE, PPT
.22 small frame - HFT, PPT
Since this picture, I added a .38 Outdoorsman and a .38 Shooting Master.
Bob
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07-03-2018, 04:21 PM
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Smiths & Colts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by red9
You have committed no sin. Although Smiths are number one in my heart, there is a place for Colts. Left to right:
.44 large frame - HE 2nd, New Service
.38 medium frame - K38, OMT
.32 medium frame - K32, OMT
.22 medium frame - K22, OMT
.32 small frame - HE, PPT
.22 small frame - HFT, PPT
Since this picture, I added a .38 Outdoorsman and a .38 Shooting Master.
Bob
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Thank you for that, I've been feeling a little 2nd guessing making my 1st foray into the Colts (I passed on a 24-3 to get this one), but I was attracted to the fact that it is one of Colt's finest target guns and parallels the Outdoorsman.
Your collection is outstanding, & thank you for sharing that! A great pic as well. I have a 2nd model 44HE as well, with a lot of patina however, but like a swiss watch on the timing and lockup! It went back to the factory in '26 and they did a great job!
I found this interesting link about the Officer Model Target, Match, etc. Colt Officers Target & Match Revolvers - Pistolsmith
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07-03-2018, 08:16 PM
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S&W's are my preference but when presented with the opportunity to acquire some fine old Colts from a bygone era my resistance was futile. I have not done a side by side test of the Colt OMM and S&W K38 yet but it should prove interesting.
Last edited by Walter Rego; 07-03-2018 at 08:21 PM.
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07-04-2018, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walter Rego
S&W's are my preference but when presented with the opportunity to acquire some fine old Colts from a bygone era my resistance was futile. I have not done a side by side test of the Colt OMM and S&W K38 yet but it should prove interesting.
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Very interesting. Now in your opinion which is the more desirable or sought after caliber of the Colt Officers Target Model?
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07-04-2018, 12:32 AM
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Red 9, I keep coming back to look at photos of your collection. It is really something special, and I would imagine took a long time to assemble. It looks like something that should be in a collectors book.
If someone wanting to start a top notch collection, particularly Smiths, you will quickly learn from this site, that the bar is set pretty high.
I really appreciate you guys sharing your pre war Smiths and Colts, on this thread.
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07-20-2018, 02:28 PM
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Grasshorn Stags for Colt Officer's Model Target
I've been sent these gorgeous stags from Patrick Grasshorn. I specifically requested some that have some girth for shooting comfort, and Patrick came threw in big time on these.
Symmetry, balance, density, bark, fitment, rustic appeal yet refinement, it's all there! They really bring out the beauty of this Colt, and I can preserve the original grips from incidental damage.
Comments welcome, (aside from these are crummy cell phone, picks!) Thanks!
Last edited by Kingspoke; 07-21-2018 at 04:25 PM.
Reason: type o
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07-20-2018, 02:34 PM
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Colt (pre war) OMT
A few more ...
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07-20-2018, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingspoke
I bought my first Colt ever! A 1937 Officer's Model Target with heavy 6" barrel, to go along with my 1937 Outdoorsman. Well at least that is the only story, I can come up with, lol!
My FFL who is a Colt Cool Aid drinker, sends me an auction link and tells me it would be a great gun to start a Colt collection with, lol, again. I'm a dyed in the wool Smith guy, so there's no way after decades of Smiths will I become a "Colt Guy". Both great American guns!
Anyhow it should be interesting to compare side by side, shooting both. The Colt has the perceived advantage of the heavy (optional) barrel, hand fitted and finished action.
Whatta you guys think?
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I think the Officers Model is more akin to the K frame Target models than the Outdoorsman. The New Service Target would be more of a match frame-wise to the Outdoorsman. And shame on you for getting a Colt, who would do such a thing.... oh wait, I would. (Click on the pics for a larger version.)
As I said, more like the K frame Targets than the Outdoorsman....
Here's a Target New Service in .44 Russian.
Last edited by Tom K; 07-20-2018 at 04:15 PM.
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07-20-2018, 04:09 PM
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I still have my first Cobra, purchased new in 1968 for $85, as an off duty gun.
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07-20-2018, 05:33 PM
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It's often said that a really top-ranked competitive shooter could shoot a few points higher with a Colt than a S&W. And many old-time Bullseye shooters preferred Colt revolvers. I have both an OMT and an OMM in .38 Special. I see no detectable difference between their performances, although I like the OMT a wee bit better.
Those Bullseye competitive shooters remaining today do not use revolvers. Or at least very, very few do.
Last edited by DWalt; 07-20-2018 at 05:38 PM.
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07-20-2018, 08:02 PM
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[QUOTE=Tom K;140106956]I think the Officers Model is more akin to the K frame Target models than the Outdoorsman. The New Service Target would be more of a match frame-wise to the Outdoorsman. And shame on you for getting a Colt, who would do such a thing.... oh wait, I would. (Click on the pics for a larger version.)
As I said, more like the K frame Targets than the Outdoorsman....
If we're talking frames, I totally agree with that! You have some real beauties there, which also illustrate your point.
Overall my understanding is that the Colt OMT and the S&W were the top target models of the pre war era. You had the "McGivern like" camp and the preponderance of other target shooters preferring the Colt.
Did I get this comparison wrong? I don't know, but I have two beautiful target models from 1937. Both great representatives of American ingenuity.
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07-20-2018, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
It's often said that a really top-ranked competitive shooter could shoot a few points higher with a Colt than a S&W. And many old-time Bullseye shooters preferred Colt revolvers. I have both an OMT and an OMM in .38 Special. I see no detectable difference between their performances, although I like the OMT a wee bit better.
Those Bullseye competitive shooters remaining today do not use revolvers. Or at least very, very few do.
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You've captured my rudimentary understanding of how competitive shooting in that era developed. It's great to own a gun like the OMT, knowing it was the best that Colt had to offer for .38 target shooting.
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07-20-2018, 08:20 PM
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Tom K, I'm just getting my feet wet on this so, I'm reading more about the NST to catch up with your comments. These damn Colts!
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07-20-2018, 11:46 PM
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One reason that Colt revolver accuracy performance is considered by some to better than S&W is that the Colt cylinder is held more firmly in place when the hammer falls. That is part of the Colt's design.
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07-21-2018, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
One reason that Colt revolver accuracy performance is considered by some to better than S&W is that the Colt cylinder is held more firmly in place when the hammer falls. That is part of the Colt's design.
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Yes, the lockup on a Colt is tight. But if you slowly pull the trigger in DA, you will see the Smith lock up before the hammer falls, and the Colt while on the way down. Timing is much more critical on the (pre-Mk lll) Colt. While going through the Police Academy, I was told by the range officer that 90% of the (personally owned) guns on the line were Smiths and 90% of the malfunctions Colts.
Bob
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07-21-2018, 10:05 AM
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Looks like you found a nice one. I have have a 30s era Officers Model with the heavy barrel and a lanyard ring. I took it and my 70s era K-38 out for some comparison shooting and found little discernible difference. The advice I was given when I got mine was that the Colt can easily develop timing issues and there aren’t many Colt mechanics around anymore. Be careful with it.
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07-21-2018, 10:37 AM
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When you do your "side by side comparison", I would caution you not to expect your favorite S&W's favorite load to perform the same in your Colt.....it could be abysmal and give you the impression the Colt is inferior.
It's not uncommon for an accurate load in one gun to be not so accurate in another of the exact same model. Without saying which is "better", there are many significant differences between the S&W and Colt...bore and groove diameters, rate of twist, cone configuration, etc.
As an aside, I have a 6" OMM and 4" Model 15. When testing 7 different loads in the two revolvers I found, in every single instance, velocities were higher from the 4" Smith than the 6" Colt .... as much as 100 fps faster. I don't think anyone could have predicted that. So, is that good or bad? I'd say neither, just different and surprising.
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07-21-2018, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 27 Man
... the Colt can easily develop timing issues and there aren’t many Colt mechanics around anymore. Be careful with it.
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That is simply not true, and I would like that internet legend would go away.
Here are two Colts of mine...
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07-21-2018, 10:52 AM
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S&W did not have a frame size similar to the Colt E/I frame until S&W came out with the L frame in the 80's.
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07-21-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike campbell
When you do your "side by side comparison", I would caution you not to expect your favorite S&W's favorite load to perform the same in your Colt.....it could be abysmal and give you the impression the Colt is inferior.
It's not uncommon for an accurate load in one gun to be not so accurate in another of the exact same model. Without saying which is "better", there are many significant differences between the S&W and Colt...bore and groove diameters, rate of twist, cone configuration, etc.
As an aside, I have a 6" OMM and 4" Model 15. When testing 7 different loads in the two revolvers I found, in every single instance, velocities were higher from the 4" Smith than the 6" Colt .... as much as 100 fps faster. I don't think anyone could have predicted that. So, is that good or bad? I'd say neither, just different and surprising.
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There have been similar discussions here before. When it comes to muzzle velocities in a revolver, even those having the same barrel length, every one is a law unto its own. And that's not just comparing a Colt to a S&W. Citing the foregoing, I can state the reverse. Some time ago I was comparing .38 Special wadcutter MVs fired from a Colt .357 with a 6" barrel against a S&W Model 14, same barrel length. With the exact same loads, the average MV from the Colt was about 80 ft/sec greater than from the S&W. Why? I don't know, but most probably slight dimensional differences, especially in the cylinder-barrel gap. One of the Speer reloading manuals discusses this same phenomena in some detail. Moral - don't believe MVs given in any reloading data sources regarding revolvers.
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07-21-2018, 01:37 PM
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^^^ I have two S&W Model 28 revolvers, a 4" and a 6". The muzzle velocities are nearly identical. They were made within a few years of each other.
Hmmmmmm...
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07-21-2018, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
S&W did not have a frame size similar to the Colt E/I frame until S&W came out with the L frame in the 80's.
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Interesting, and good to know that. Thanks!
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07-21-2018, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old cop
I still have my first Cobra, purchased new in 1968 for $85, as an off duty gun.
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Very nice! Obviously that lil Colt was not only practical but something that endeared itself to you.
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07-21-2018, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
One reason that Colt revolver accuracy performance is considered by some to better than S&W is that the Colt cylinder is held more firmly in place when the hammer falls. That is part of the Colt's design.
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This is echoed by my FFL who is a big Colt collector, as many here are also.
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07-21-2018, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear
That is simply not true, and I would like that internet legend would go away.
Here are two Colts of mine...
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There is just something classy about the bottom one, which I would guess is a Police Positive(?), but it has that 38/44 HD (underlug aside) working gun charm, to it.
Thanks for sharing those two beauties!
Last edited by Kingspoke; 07-21-2018 at 04:50 PM.
Reason: clarification
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07-21-2018, 05:20 PM
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That is a Colt Army Special, inherited from my dad. It was made in 1927 (the same year as him!). It is built on the same frame size as the Officer's Model and later Python. These were all basically the same guns except for sights, and the Python's frame mounted firing pin and the dude finish on the Python.
The one above it is an Officer's Model, which was also made in 1927. Both revolvers are in .38 Special.
Last edited by Warren Sear; 07-21-2018 at 05:22 PM.
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07-22-2018, 10:39 AM
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The Colt Army Special is, except for a few minor cosmetic changes, identical to the later Colt Official Police. Colt merely changed the name in 1927 for marketing purposes. It was easier to sell a revolver named the "Official Police" to police departments. Colt made a lot of hay in the 1930s by advertising that the OP was capable of firing the more powerful .38-44 round used by the S&W N-frame HD. In fact, most any .38 Special revolver could fire the .38-44 round safely also, but Colt didn't mention that.
The Colt E-frame is slightly larger than the S&W K-frame because Colt's frame design was to accommodate the larger diameter .41 Long Colt round, whereas the S&W K-frame was designed around the smaller diameter .38 Special. All things exist for some reason.
Last edited by DWalt; 07-22-2018 at 10:54 AM.
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07-22-2018, 11:12 AM
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Member
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Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Kommiefornia
Posts: 848
Likes: 2,216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt
The Colt Army Special is, except for a few minor cosmetic changes, identical to the later Colt Official Police. Colt merely changed the name in 1927 for marketing purposes. It was easier to sell a revolver named the "Official Police" to police departments. Colt made a lot of hay in the 1930s by advertising that the OP was capable of firing the more powerful .38-44 round used by the S&W N-frame HD. In fact, most any .38 Special revolver could fire the .38-44 round safely also, but Colt didn't mention that.
The Colt E-frame is slightly larger than the S&W K-frame because Colt's frame design was to accommodate the larger diameter .41 Long Colt round, whereas the S&W K-frame was designed around the smaller diameter .38 Special. All things exist for some reason.
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Awesome information! You've distilled a volume of information that would have taken me some time to realize. Another reason I love this site.
Very interesting Colt history (including 41 LC), & also somewhat explains my mis-identification.
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07-22-2018, 05:25 PM
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US Veteran
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Derby City,Ky.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red9
You have committed no sin. Although Smiths are number one in my heart, there is a place for Colts. Left to right:
.44 large frame - HE 2nd, New Service
.38 medium frame - K38, OMT
.32 medium frame - K32, OMT
.22 medium frame - K22, OMT
.32 small frame - HE, PPT
.22 small frame - HFT, PPT
Since this picture, I added a .38 Outdoorsman and a .38 Shooting Master.
Bob
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Wow red9 that some family you have there,awesome!
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