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Old 07-02-2018, 08:06 PM
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Default Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1903

Does anyone have a Mannlicher Schoenauer Model 1903 carbine.
I won a nice one on GunBroker last week. in 6.5x54. I've been hunting a nice example for a couple of years now, and considered myself lucky to get this one. No one else bid it..., this is something of a grail rifle for me.

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Old 07-02-2018, 08:10 PM
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Very nice looking rifle. I just love those full length stocks.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:13 PM
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Very nice looking rifle. I just love those full length stocks.
Thanks, I need to find a front sight hood for it, anyone know a source?
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:17 PM
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Mannlichers are exotic rifles and were especially in demand in the post war years. Ruger made their international carbine which was popular for a number of years before being discontinued. Mannlichers are characterized by butter-smooth actions and bolt travel.

Your rifle has quite a bit of drop at the heel, typical of Mannlichers. Also, they usually require the services of a Mannlicher-skilled gunsmith to get them to group.

Ammunition is available and the cartridge would be ideal for North American big game without also half-killing the guy behind the rifle. The rifle may be convertible to 6.5 Swede, a much more popular chambering.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:37 PM
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I have one. It's a safe queen.



Love them!

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Old 07-02-2018, 08:44 PM
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Great looking rifles.
Just to compare. My Ruger M77 International in .243.
Drops a whitetail right now.
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:46 PM
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I have one. It's a safe queen.



Love them!

Curl
Is that also in 6.5?
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Old 07-02-2018, 08:54 PM
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Yes. Every rifle designated a Model 1903 was originally chambered in 6.5x54.



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Old 07-02-2018, 09:55 PM
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I have my Grandfather’s M.1910 he picked up post-War in Austria. Elegance in steel and wood.
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Old 07-02-2018, 09:57 PM
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I have it's twin.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:10 AM
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Perfect example of way cool! Wish they came Left handed. If custom stocks made out of good walnut werent horribly expensive i would have a left hand rifle cut down and restocked w a manlicher style stock w a good receiver sight.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:47 AM
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I HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE, BUT THE BEDDING ISSUE OF A BARREL IN A FULL LENGTH STOCK, ALWAYS LED ME TO QUESTION THE ACCURACY OF SUCH A DESIGN.....

THIS THINKING APPEARS TO BE VALIDATED BY POST #4 ABOVE, BY federali, THAT EXPRESSED THE NEED FOR A MANNLICHER SKILLED GUNSMITH, TO GET THESE RIFLES TO GROUP. INACCURATE FIREARMS, NO MATTER HOW PLEASING TO THE EYE, DO NOT INTEREST ME......
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:20 AM
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My Steyr Mannlicher SL Fullstock just found a new home and nothing touching the barrel works for one ragged hole groups.
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
I HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE, BUT THE BEDDING ISSUE OF A BARREL IN A FULL LENGTH STOCK, ALWAYS LED ME TO QUESTION THE ACCURACY OF SUCH A DESIGN.....

THIS THINKING APPEARS TO BE VALIDATED BY POST #4 ABOVE, BY federali, THAT EXPRESSED THE NEED FOR A MANNLICHER SKILLED GUNSMITH, TO GET THESE RIFLES TO GROUP. INACCURATE FIREARMS, NO MATTER HOW PLEASING TO THE EYE, DO NOT INTEREST ME......
I haven't had a chance to shoot the rifle yet, so no report on the accuracy. I'm not worried about it, if it's a problem, I'll find a way to address it.
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:28 AM
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CZ has solved the problem, their full stock 452 will shoot lights out.
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:34 AM
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My Steyr Mannlicher SL Fullstock just found a new home and nothing touching the barrel works for one ragged hole groups.
I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE THAT NOTHING TOUCHING THE BARREL WOULD HELP.....

I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THE STOCK COULD BE RELIEVED TO FREE FLOAT THE BARREL, FROM THE RECEIVER ON FOWARD---BUT, NEVER HAVING EXAMINED ONE OF THESE BEAUTIES UP CLOSE---ITS HARD FOR ME TO ENVISION, HOW OR IF, THERE IS NO BARREL TO STOCK CONTACT AT THE MUZZLE, TO INTERFERE WITH THE NATURAL HARMONICS OF THE BARREL......
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:41 AM
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I haven't had a chance to shoot the rifle yet, so no report on the accuracy. I'm not worried about it, if it's a problem, I'll find a way to address it.
THAT'S THE SPIRIT, Muddyboot. EVIDENTLY, FREE FLOATING THE BARREL HAS WORKED OUT FOR Imissedagain.....
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Old 07-03-2018, 05:56 AM
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CZ has solved the problem, their full stock 452 will shoot lights out.
VERY INTERESTING, crsides. IMHO, CZ HAS INCREASINGLY GAINED A REPUTATION, FOR MAKING SOME EXCELLENT RIFLES AND SEMI-AUTO PISTOLS......
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:14 AM
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I like the BRNO 21 and 22 as a successor to MS carbines. Maybe not quite as high brow, but still very elegant. The Czechs must have been borrowing some of the style and character of their rifles from MS. And they are easy to work on, just plain ol mausers really.
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:38 AM
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I haven't shot my M1903 (safe queen), but I am confident that any Mannlicher Shoenauer in good condition will return good accuracy. They were precision made and carried an excellent reputation back in the day when available. If they were hopelessly inaccurate the hunters of that day and time would not have bought them.

I do have a M-S Model MCA carbine chambered in .358 Win. (very rare). I can report that it shoots quite well without any fiddling or tinkering. They were top quality rifles.

Those of you who shun them for lack of bench-rest accuracy can please send them my way.

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Old 07-03-2018, 08:18 AM
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I love the look and have had a Ruger International in .243 since about 1982...... discovered the CZ FS models in 2011 and have CZ 'mannlicher/full stocks in .22lr ,.22 magnum and .223..... they make me and all three can shoot MOA........ well..... the .22lr will shoot one hole (1/2") groups at 50yds.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:44 AM
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I owned a Ruger International in .243 that was capable of placing three shots under a nickel on the 100 yard bench. My rifle was tuned by George Beitzinger, whose work often graced the cover of the Leopold catalogs. George said that among other things, the wood to metal contact and pressure at the for-end tip must be relieved.
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Old 07-03-2018, 09:55 AM
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VERY INTERESTING, crsides. IMHO, CZ HAS INCREASINGLY GAINED A REPUTATION, FOR MAKING SOME EXCELLENT RIFLES AND SEMI-AUTO PISTOLS......
Before them Anschutz was doing it.
I have a 1418 that produces ragged holes if your close by in NE your welcome to try it.
Wouldn't own it if it didn't.
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Old 07-03-2018, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
I WOULD HAVE TO AGREE THAT NOTHING TOUCHING THE BARREL WOULD HELP.....

I CAN UNDERSTAND HOW THE STOCK COULD BE RELIEVED TO FREE FLOAT THE BARREL, FROM THE RECEIVER ON FOWARD---BUT, NEVER HAVING EXAMINED ONE OF THESE BEAUTIES UP CLOSE---ITS HARD FOR ME TO ENVISION, HOW OR IF, THERE IS NO BARREL TO STOCK CONTACT AT THE MUZZLE, TO INTERFERE WITH THE NATURAL HARMONICS OF THE BARREL......
I’ll retract the “nothing” part and change it to “almost nothing” as the wood’s tip is held by a lower band/screw arrangement.
Will post pictures tomorrow, hear that King George!!!!
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Old 07-03-2018, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CptCurl View Post
I haven't shot my M1903 (safe queen), but I am confident that any Mannlicher Shoenauer in good condition will return good accuracy. They were precision made and carried an excellent reputation back in the day when available. If they were hopelessly inaccurate the hunters of that day and time would not have bought them.
....
Exactly. The full stock could lead to accuracy issues as the barrel heats up, if you took it out for an all-day plinking session, American style. But that would not occur to your typical European hunter.

We had a MS 1903 “Stutzen” (the German term for the full stock shorty) in the family for generations. It got buried rather than turned in at the end of WW II, and was exhumed around 1950 when it was safe again. My dad shot his first roe buck with it, although he only borrowed the rifle, and I don’t know where it ended up.

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I like the BRNO 21 and 22 as a successor to MS carbines. Maybe not quite as high brow, but still very elegant. The Czechs must have been borrowing some of the style and character of their rifles from MS....
More than borrow. The Brno arms factory that nowadays is CZ was a licensed manufacturer of Mannlicher design military rifles.
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Old 07-03-2018, 01:15 PM
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I get a kick out of all the 6.5 MM Cartridges that have come out in the last few years. But 6.5X50, 6.5X52, 6.5X54, 6.5X53R, 6.5X55, all were around from the late 1800s till after WW2 and guns were available to hunters at very cheap prices after WW2. My late brother swore by his 6.5X55MM Swedish Mauser. Winchester & Remington both tried 6.5 with limited success now there seems like the 6.5 MM is the cartridge that everyone wants now. I would love to have a 6.5X54 Mannlicher Shoenauer 1903 Carbine. I remember talking with an old Maine hunter over 50 years a go and he was telling me how wonderfully his 1903 M S Carbine killed deer for him.
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Old 07-03-2018, 06:27 PM
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I've got a couple 6.5 M/S 1903's, one in the restocking phase as it was only the metal parts when I got it.

Another is a Greek M1903 done over by Geo Gibbs of Bristol, England to a sporter. It's chambered in their 256 Gibbs Magnum. I make brass from 8mm Mauser with 303Brit and shortened 6.5Swede dies.
Complete w/Aldis Bros scope in detachable mounts.

A Sporter built on a Romanian M93 Mannlicher in 6.5x53R is a nice carbine and shoots very well. 5-shot en-bloc magazine fed,,not the rotary magazine version. Brass made from 303Brit on 6.5M/S dies.

A near handfull of Model 1908 and 1910 M/S complete the bunch.
No safe queens in the lot, a couple with cut full length stocks, ect.
I like 'em!
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:18 PM
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No gun but have ammo if one ever shows up.
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:43 PM
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No gun but have ammo if one ever shows up.
I've been buying ammo for the last two or three years knowing I would find the right rifle sometime. PPU still makes 6.5x54. Also have found a fair amount of ammo at OGCA...
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Old 07-03-2018, 07:50 PM
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Beautiful rifle!

The only Mannlicher rifles that I have are the ratty Sako brand.
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Old 07-03-2018, 08:34 PM
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I once owned an M/S Model 1905 in 9x56mm caliber. It was a half stock British takedown rifle instead of the usual Mannlicher full length stock. I want to say the barrel was 22" or 24". It still had the cleaning rod in the butt trap, a spare front sight blade in a pistol grip cap trap and a cool flip up aperture rear sight in the wrist. I was never able to find ammo, dies were very expensive and most importantly the correct diameter and weight bullets were like unicorns. I ended up selling it. Wish I could have been able to fire it, it was a beauty.
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Old 07-04-2018, 12:26 AM
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I enjoy mine. 308 MCA that shoots well under moa.


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Old 07-04-2018, 07:46 AM
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Yes, my MCA carbine in .358 Win. shoots just fine even though it hasn't had the latest whizbang touch-up to its bedding.

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Old 07-04-2018, 08:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by one eye joe View Post
I HAVE NEVER OWNED ONE, BUT THE BEDDING ISSUE OF A BARREL IN A FULL LENGTH STOCK, ALWAYS LED ME TO QUESTION THE ACCURACY OF SUCH A DESIGN.....

THIS THINKING APPEARS TO BE VALIDATED BY POST #4 ABOVE, BY federali, THAT EXPRESSED THE NEED FOR A MANNLICHER SKILLED GUNSMITH, TO GET THESE RIFLES TO GROUP. INACCURATE FIREARMS, NO MATTER HOW PLEASING TO THE EYE, DO NOT INTEREST ME......
I'm a fan of accurate rifles. For quite a few years I went even further and became fanatical about accurate rifles. I have single-shot rifles and bolt action rifles that will easily shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards, and game animals can be taken at 1/4 mile without too much difficulty.

After hunting the Colorado high country for many years, usually keeping the freezer stocked with deer and elk, it occurred to me just how seldom I have ever taken a game animal at more than 80 or 90 yards. I remember a mule deer buck at about 400 yards once, standing perfectly still while I had a good rest to shoot from, and it took 3 rounds (.30-06, 165BTSP) in the boiler works before he went down. I remember an elk at about 250 yards, grazing peacefully while I had a good rest to shoot from; easy meat. But all the rest were taken at under 100 yards, sometimes under 50 yards, usually offhand or prone shooting with trees and brush in the way to make it a challenge, sometimes moving uphill or downhill; not easy shots for a careful hunter who wants to put the critter down properly.

So, the old Winchester .30-30 with receiver sight, or the Savage 99 with Weaver 3X, even an as-issued 03-A3 Springfield, any of those would have served me just as well while being easier to carry all day in the mountains, even though none of them are particularly accurate when compared to a 10-12 lb. tack-driving rifle/scope combo that shreds the X-ring on the range.

I think that gorgeous Mannlicher 1903 would make a great hunting rifle, even if it prints 3" or 4" groups at 100 yards. Lightweight, compact, plenty of power for typical game and hunting conditions. It should be a joy to carry and shoot!
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  #35  
Old 07-04-2018, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather View Post
I'm a fan of accurate rifles. For quite a few years I went even further and became fanatical about accurate rifles. I have single-shot rifles and bolt action rifles that will easily shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards, and game animals can be taken at 1/4 mile without too much difficulty.

After hunting the Colorado high country for many years, usually keeping the freezer stocked with deer and elk, it occurred to me just how seldom I have ever taken a game animal at more than 80 or 90 yards. I remember a mule deer buck at about 400 yards once, standing perfectly still while I had a good rest to shoot from, and it took 3 rounds (.30-06, 165BTSP) in the boiler works before he went down. I remember an elk at about 250 yards, grazing peacefully while I had a good rest to shoot from; easy meat. But all the rest were taken at under 100 yards, sometimes under 50 yards, usually offhand or prone shooting with trees and brush in the way to make it a challenge, sometimes moving uphill or downhill; not easy shots for a careful hunter who wants to put the critter down properly.

So, the old Winchester .30-30 with receiver sight, or the Savage 99 with Weaver 3X, even an as-issued 03-A3 Springfield, any of those would have served me just as well while being easier to carry all day in the mountains, even though none of them are particularly accurate when compared to a 10-12 lb. tack-driving rifle/scope combo that shreds the X-ring on the range.

I think that gorgeous Mannlicher 1903 would make a great hunting rifle, even if it prints 3" or 4" groups at 100 yards. Lightweight, compact, plenty of power for typical game and hunting conditions. It should be a joy to carry and shoot!

Great comments from someone who has real life experience in the field with various rifles. Though my rifle will not be used to hunt game with ( not legal in Ohio except for wild boar and coyotes) I appreciate the experience of someone who uses them the field.
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  #36  
Old 07-09-2018, 06:15 PM
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Gorgeous rifle. I have a Steyr M1895 carbine, but I don't know much about it. It doesn't look that handsome though.
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  #37  
Old 07-09-2018, 08:43 PM
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Default Hemmingway

Hemmingway had one and used it in Africa. He also wrote about it in a couple of his stories. As one writer said he called it a "very good rifle" and knew the difference between good and very good. A guy I knew had one in 270 and it would keep 5 shots in a playing card at 200 meters. He bought it in Germany in the service. I would shoot it and see what it does before worrying about things that might be wrong. Trust the craftsmen who built it, they maybe knew what they were doing. By the way the people who bought these in Austria used them for hunting not group shooting.
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:18 PM
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Default gun digest

Check out gun digest 2014 and 2016. Both have good articles
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Old 07-17-2018, 05:30 PM
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I had a military MS with Greek Crest /1903 I'm not
sure of the cartridge, but 6.5 of some type, in fact
I still have partial box of military for it. I think they
Are 40 or 50rd Boxes.


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