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Old 07-05-2018, 07:01 PM
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Default I bought a .25 Raven today

Yes, I spent good money on one of the maligned guns ever made. I have no excuse, $75.00 made it mine. I had one 30 years ago, ( one of my first semi auto pistols) and it worked just fine. I didn't need it, I'm not sure what I'll do with it, so let the mocking begin.....


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Old 07-05-2018, 07:06 PM
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No mocking here. I own one too.
Yep, they're cheap and poorly made. The quintessential saturday night special. But the darned things work and just keep working.
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:10 PM
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Neat, there's no shame in owning a Raven Arms, especially considering it's more of a "just because" thing than anything else, and it was cheap too.
Folks collect all sorts of firearms, including infamous Saturday Night Specials like that Raven.

There's a (sick?) part of me that has been repeatedly tempted to buy a Remington R51, which is an infamously low quality pistol in its own right, plus it's extremely difficult to disassemble/reasonable, most likely even LESS reliable than your Raven, and it costs upwards of $250!
So yeah, you could do worse.
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:27 PM
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Nice. And if I'm not mistaken, it is the target model.
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:29 PM
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Cute little bugger!
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:29 PM
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Made in U.S.A. too!
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:30 PM
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Nice. And if I'm not mistaken, it is the target model.
They made a target model?
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Old 07-05-2018, 07:33 PM
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"There's a (sick?) part of me that has been repeatedly tempted to buy a Remington R51, which is an infamously low quality pistol in its own right, plus it's extremely difficult to disassemble/reasonable, most likely even LESS reliable than your Raven, and it costs upwards of $250!"

My experience with the R51 is somewhat different. It seems dependable and it is not that difficult to disassemble if you practice a bit. But again, I am very partial to the original Remington Model 51 of the early 20th Century and the Model 51 and the R51 disassemble in much the same manner.

There are collectors of the Saturday Night Specials (and quite a few of them) just as there are collectors of other types of handguns. They do serve a purpose for those of limited means, but they are probably best if they don't get much use as many don't have long lifespans. I have a .380 Jennings which performed quite well during firing of the first box of ammunition I fired through it. Then the problems began. Die castings don't hold up very long.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:50 PM
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My experience with the R51 is somewhat different. It seems dependable and it is not that difficult to disassemble if you practice a bit. But again, I am very partial to the original Remington Model 51 of the early 20th Century and the Model 51 and the R51 disassemble in much the same manner.

There are collectors of the Saturday Night Specials (and quite a few of them) just as there are collectors of other types of handguns. They do serve a purpose for those of limited means, but they are probably best if they don't get much use as many don't have long lifespans. I have a .380 Jennings which performed quite well during firing of the first box of ammunition I fired through it. Then the problems began. Die castings don't hold up very long.
Maybe Remington finally managed to hammer out all the kinks by now, a shame that it is likely already too late, if such is the case. I would actually prioritize buying one if they came in .40 S&W or .45 ACP. If nothing else, it's a unique-looking firearm with its retro meets modern aesthetic.

Nowadays Hi-Point seems like the go-to brand for bottom-dollar, budget-priced firearms, although personally I'm the sort who would prefer to spend a bit more for a Taurus, Bersa, or Rock Island Armory firearm than settle for a Hi-Point. The only firearms I'm comfortable with using die cast components are chambered in .22LR, modern die casting with high purity alloys like ZAMAK seem to at least be suitable for that much without having to be made absurdly thick/heavy.
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Old 07-05-2018, 08:59 PM
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friend had one. found a box of ball ammo for it that had a small ball bearing in the ball bullet. actually saw a box at walmart, same ammo w/ ball bearing in the bullet several weeks ago. made by Remington.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:05 PM
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I've never seen a Raven in that good condition. It'll make a good throw down gun.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:13 PM
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The city that I worked for had an auction and among the things sold were the found, confiscated and seized weapons the PD had accumulated over the years. A number of folks developed "auction fever" and were bidding prices around $50 for .25 Ravens that had been tossed from cars, found in the street, etc. This was when new Ravens sold for $29.95!!
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:14 PM
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I've never seen a Raven in that good condition. It'll make a good throw down gun.
Condition was one reason I got it. My guess is I'll put a box or two of ammo through it to make sure it works, then use it as a hideaway gun around the house.
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Old 07-05-2018, 09:18 PM
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The “original” Saturday Night Special
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:15 PM
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I would gently disagree on the Raven being the original Saturday Night Special.

The RG revolvers might hold that distinction.

I do recall a saying “Hotter than a $2 pistol on a Saturday night.” that was way before my time.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:28 PM
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[B][I]
My experience with the R51 is somewhat different. It seems dependable and it is not that difficult to disassemble if you practice a bit. But again, I am very partial to the original Remington Model 51 of the early 20th Century and the Model 51 and the R51 disassemble in much the same manner.
I picked one up for $279 when the rebate was on, so my all-in cost was $179. I had problems that were attributable to the magazines, which Remington replaced without question. So far it has not run 200 rounds trouble free, but the only hitch in the last 200 was a single lock-back with one round in the mag. The least objectionable bottom-feeder fail, IMHO. Will I put it in the carry rotation? Not yet. Is it a POJ? Not hardly.

I worked with officers who carried Ravens as "Onion Field" guns. Mine was a High Standard .22 Mag derringer. They may not have been elegant, but they were functional and they were always there.
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:33 PM
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Condition was one reason I got it. My guess is I'll put a box or two of ammo through it to make sure it works, then use it as a hideaway gun around the house.

a cheap gun thats going to be really expensive to shoot
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:45 PM
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Better than throwing rocks...
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Old 07-05-2018, 10:49 PM
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I had a pair of them ,one blue and one chrome. A little on the big size for 25 acp but fun too have.
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:11 AM
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You can make a small profit at a gun buy-back.
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:34 AM
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Mine isn't near as pretty as your's, but here it is along with a couple of other mousers.



Mine has a bit of a story attached to it. A couple of years ago I saw an local ad for this gun. The owner said there was something wrong with it, it wouldn't work and to make an offer. Just for S&G, I bought it for $20. I took it home, examined it, turned the firing pin around the way its supposed to go and it worked like a charm.
My best friend dropped by a few days latter and I showed it to him. He got all excited and said "I WANT IT!" So I sold it to him for what I had in it, $20.
Last year my friend passed away. While helping his wife go through his safe, I stumbled across it again. Without so much as a pause, I gave his wife $20 and took it back home.
Piece of junk it may be, I'll never sell it again because it reminds me of my friend.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:09 AM
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Nothing to mock. Neat little .25; those little mouse guns are fun to shoot occasionally. And oh, BTW, there are hundreds of thousands of cadavers buried around the globe that would disagree that the little .25 is inadequate. This is my .25; a German Ortgies from ca. 1922.


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Old 07-06-2018, 06:25 AM
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Really nice example you have there. This gun might be poked fun at, but it's part of American gun history. If I remember correctly, the Raven was devised by a man who wanted to provide a reliable small semi for self defense. It was NOT designed to be a criminal's favorite! Back in the 1970's, anti gun rhetoric was aimed at this gun similar to how the AR 15 is targeted today.

I have my father's Raven in its original box with the price tag showing $34.00 from the early 1970's. My dad was ill due to kidney disease. He was head-of-sales for a West Philadelphia kitchen design company. Often, he needed to visit areas at night in high crime areas and he was able to demonstrate his need carry a gun. PA was not a "shall-issue" State back then so the process to obtain a carry permit was difficult. I have his carry permit. I can remember standing out in our back yard watching my dad fire the first test shots at a piece of plywood leaning against our brick house and getting "bit" by the slide.

I bought a box of 25 ACP (expensive stuff!). I will say that the humble made-in-America "Saturday Night Special" shot pleasantly, reliably and POA-POI- PERFECT!

So anyway, thanks again for this topic and sharing pics of your your Raven. I think I'll go into the safe and pull out that box with my Dad's Raven just to look it over and maybe read up on the Raven's interesting history. I'll never part with it!

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Old 07-06-2018, 07:43 AM
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Neat, there's no shame in owning a Raven Arms, ....
While there might be no shame in owning one, pride of ownership is somewhat limited. I know, I had bought one for $25 just for the experience. The gun actually worked.
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:28 AM
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Nice looking Raven Muddyboot; here is a picture of mine. It came with several other guns purchased as a lot. Some of the others, from more reputable/desirable manufacturers, have found other homes. This one, I cant seem to let go of. Its just a neat little unappreciated gun. It came with the original purchase receipt from a long ago closed local gun shop in town.

They are neat little guns. You did good on your much maligned purchase. Enjoy it!
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:49 AM
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That's funny. My son's wife sold me one for $35 about 10 years ago. She got it to carry off to college. I didn't really want it, but she wanted the money. Still have it. Don't know why.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:03 AM
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I had a Beretta in 22 SHORT! Reliable=considered it my "get away from someone wrestling with me" gun!
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:25 AM
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I kept an old .25 auto, purchased in a Western Auto Store, laced in the top of my combat boot until I could afford a J frame as a back-up. It never malfunctioned.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:37 AM
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Your post got me thinking, my wife and I purchased a pair of Tanfoglio GT 27 in 25 ACP,in 1990?? Consecutive SN#. Why? Because we did not own any 25 autos! So they have sat in the safe for the last 28 years in the boxes. Local gun shop had a sale going- about 75$ otd- I just checked a few sites that are offering used GT-27's for $175. For some reason I do not believe that my wife is going to switch from her Colt officer's with frame melt, night sights, Action done, Cerakote. I bought a pair of Short forties, consecutive back in 1993, ( 0573,0574) which they remain in the box, unfired, next to a consecutive pair of SS speed sixes, consecutive of course, NIB, of course- she said that she would not switch from a 45 ACP, and they looked nice and should remain unfired. So I bought a custom speed six, & a Shorty forty to carry. We tend to have 2 or more of everything since we have been together since 1986, married in 1991, we always bought a pair of what ever we were buying. Our only discrepancy was when she bought a Ruger Redhawk 44 5.5 for wet days, and a scoped 7.5 for sunny days, while I stayed with 629's. Still carry a 20 year old Sigma F and a pair of compact Sigma 40's that were prepared by a Smith armorer when I got them. I keep trying different MP's 9,40,357,45 but have not spent enough time to get the same skill level. She has tried them also but still goes back to the Colt. Just reminiscing, sorry for the departure. Be Safe,
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:44 AM
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RG actually made a 25 auto too. Check this "Limited Edition" out.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:04 AM
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I had one many, many years ago. At the time I was on the Security Police Rifle/Pistol team at my base. One day during practice I got a wild hair and gave it a try on the 25 yard B27. Due to the risk of being called a bald faced liar I won't report my grouping but suffice to say that it surprised the heck out of me.
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
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You can make a small profit at a gun buy-back.
Correct!

Yes, I know there are two almost diametrically opposed views on how we should deal with gun buy-backs. One camp says we are best to ignore them and they will go away. The other camp says we are best to use them to the max for getting rid of junk and using the $$$ proceeds to upgrade! I'll admit that I am in the latter camp, although I have yet to seize on a good opportunity.

The closest I ever came was when I found a pair of Ravens in a local shop for a total of $130 out the door. Those would have been worth $200 each in a Boston buy-back at the time. Total profit: $270.00

Awful damn tempting!
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:37 AM
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Well to be a contrarian here let me say I would have a hard time even accepting one of those as a gift. (thought it might make me a little money at a buy-back if it was a gift.)

Due to my states ridiculous laws and the time and effort required to register and the fee a FFL would charge ($25 and up) to "legalize" my possession it realy is just not worth it.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:23 AM
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Back when I was much younger, I wanted a handgun, but didn't have any money. I finally found a place that sold RG 22 revolvers, and Raven 25 Semi's. As best I remember they each sold for about $29.95.

But then I didn't have $29.95.

So I never got one.

If I ever see one like that, I might spring for it, just for old times sake.
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Old 07-06-2018, 01:21 PM
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There have been Saturday Night Specials around for almost as long as there have been handguns, but not by that name. For the last 50 or so years, a SNS is considered to be low in cost and made predominately from zinc alloy die castings, and by reputation, made mainly for sale to the criminal class.

I have owned two Jennings pistols. The first one I had was a .22 I bought on sale at some discount store back in the early 1980s. I don't remember the price, but I think about $50. I found it to be highly unreliable with any type or brand of .22 ammunition. It jammed more than it fired. I sold it shortly thereafter for about what I paid for it. The second Jennings was a .380 which I bought back in the early 2000s. I bought it from a neighbor who had never fired it. It came with two new full boxes of Winchester .380 ammunition. I gave him $75. As I stated earlier, it worked fine for firing the first box. After that, strange things started happening. After some looking, I found the problem. The firing pin hole had been peened down preventing the firing pin from protruding. There was a depression the diameter of the primer around the firing pin hole in breech face of the alloy slide. I drilled out the hole, but that turned out to be only a temporary solution, and I soon gave up on a fix. The slide alloy is just too soft to handle the .380 cartridge. I still have it somewhere as I couldn't bring myself to throw it away. It would have been a good personal protection gun if it had never been fired for practice. 50 rounds is a fairly short lifespan for any handgun. I think the Jennings was later sold under the Bryco and Jiminez brand names, no idea if they are still made.

I once had a neighbor who offered to give me his .25 Raven. I declined but wish I hadn't. I am sort of fond of .25 pistols. My normal carry gun is a Galesi .25 which is very reliable with CCI Blazer ammunition. I don't even know it's in my pants pocket.

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Old 07-06-2018, 01:49 PM
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I've no doubt an FMJ shot to the "electrical grid" will shut down the "power plant".


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Old 07-06-2018, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdgeargrndrr View Post

a cheap gun thats going to be really expensive to shoot
My friend reloads, and casts, 25 acp.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:14 PM
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good to know a .25 will penetrate 1-1/2” of plywood.

I always admired the small size but never thought they were very lethal.

Anyone know which brands are dependable?
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:29 PM
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Nothing to be ashamed of here - the gun you pack will beat the one left at home, even if that one is a .45!

I own only one .25 auto, but only because it's a John Browning-designed collectable.



On the other side of the coin, I believe it was Jeff Cooper who opined that if you actually have to shoot a bad guy with a .25 and he finds out about it, it may prompt him to do you harm...

John
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:36 PM
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Muddyboot there's no need to worry about me mocking you. Nothing wrong with buying a cheapie, pocket pistol. I've recently considered buying some sort of small caliber semi-auto just for the Hell of it. Was looking at a Beretta Tomcat .32 acp a while back, also found the Seecamp interesting. It would just be for fun as a "pea shooter" and obviously not something I'd use for serious work. Those little guns would work great with a suppressor.

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Old 07-06-2018, 02:39 PM
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My 1908 is my favorite mouse gun to fondle.

LOL, cause "it's a John Browning-designed collectable. "

That was funny John.
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Old 07-06-2018, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danwin22 View Post
good to know a .25 will penetrate 1-1/2” of plywood.
I always admired the small size but never thought they were very lethal.
Anyone know which brands are dependable?
Prvi and Remington FMJ tend to get good reviews for functioning reliability.

25 auto ammo - MidwayUSA
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:25 PM
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A Raven .25 rode in the pocket of my BDUs for quite a few years. The gun always went bang, hit what I aimed it at, and I never thought it was a *** since the internet was not around to tell me it was. I wish I had it back. Traded it for a pair of roper boots when I was about to get out of the USMC. It is kind of my "Rosebud" of firearms. A memory of a simpler time and place.


They are surprisingly dependable. Mine was black with black plastic grips. I bought it at a Holiday Inn gun show in Midland Texas in 1989.Pretty sure I paid about $45 for it.
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Old 07-06-2018, 03:46 PM
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I can't throw any rocks , One of my first was a 25 acp that cost brand new $35.00 . I wanted something small and cheap to go into a my jean's pocket. F.I.E. Titan , it did the job and I will never forget it .
An old girl friend took a liking to it...she left me and took my little F.I.E. with her. She was something else !! Will never forget the great times we had together.
Gary

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Old 07-06-2018, 04:05 PM
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Several years back, I walked into my LGS... owner says, “ This came in on trade, but I’m not putting in the showcase. Gimme 10 bucks and it’s yours.”... Paperwork done and $10 later it was mine... Took it to the range and it was surprisingly accurate at 20 feet and never hiccuped even once... I keep it in the safe just for the story to tell...
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:06 PM
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That would be 3/4" of plywood and not 1 1/2". Those were 1/4" thick pieces. I have serious doubts it will penetrate 1 1/2" of even CDX plywood. Maybe there is some hotrod 25 ACP FMJ that would. Who knows.
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:15 PM
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Now I'm starting to feel left out... The closest thing I own to one of these Saturday Night Specials is a Walther PPK/S .22 which is made of some mystery alloy. (Walther Arms USA vaguely identifies it as "zinc diecast" but according to Walther Germany it's some proprietary alloy which is "much stronger than ZAMAK" but they wouldn't go into detail regarding its composition.)
Sadly, it wasn't quite as cheap as some of the other firearms here at $375, but it would seem to at least be more durable, seeing as I've yet to read any reports of them failing.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:05 PM
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I have a chrome Raven that I got for $65 back around '99. I also have 4 (FOUR!) Bauers that I got for around $40 apiece in the early '90s.
All of them have been reliable over the years.

BTW: Try finding a genuine Bauer magazine today (I've tried).
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:22 PM
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Nothing to mock. Neat little .25; those little mouse guns are fun to shoot occasionally. And oh, BTW, there are hundreds of thousands of cadavers buried around the globe that would disagree that the little .25 is inadequate. This is my .25; a German Ortgies from ca. 1922.


That must beone of the best .25 out there.

I tried one of Ortgies in .32 (almost the same gun but bigger) some time ago and it is very good and very accurate.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PALADIN85020 View Post
Nothing to be ashamed of here - the gun you pack will beat the one left at home, even if that one is a .45!

I own only one .25 auto, but only because it's a John Browning-designed collectable.



On the other side of the coin, I believe it was Jeff Cooper who opined that if you actually have to shoot a bad guy with a .25 and he finds out about it, it may prompt him to do you harm...

John
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I bought a .25 Raven today-20171015_163348-jpg



And, I disagree with Jeff Cooper on this one. You can eliminate a threat with a .25. You only need to use it according to it's limitations. You cannot expect good performance with center of mass shots.

PS. My backup CCW is a .25 Walther TPH.
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