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Old 07-09-2018, 06:17 PM
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Default Johnny Reb would be Proud, Box of Guns=$200

Picked these up from my local shop. 2 Brass frame 1858's and a single shot BP Derringer. All three for $200.

1 ASM dates to 1994
1 ARMI San Paolo from 82 or 83 (can't tell if it's an I or L in the date code).

Single shot marked "Jurka" and "Spain". And "Derringer / Philadelphia". Any one know anything about this one? I see a patch as I look down the barrel, so it might even be loaded? Safe way to unload?

Thanks.



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Old 07-09-2018, 06:48 PM
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Don't shoot it! It might have been loaded with smokeless powder.

You can either buy a ball puller or you can make one. Basically, a ball puller is a wood/sheet metal screw that attaches to the threaded end of a ram rod. With that short barrel, you may be able to use a pair needle nose pliers.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:05 PM
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I have used an air compressor and a nozzle such as you would use to blow dust off of a project. Remove the nipple, put the nozzle up to the nipple hole, squirt some air in -- be sure no one is standing on front of the gun, because that ball will fly out at high speed.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:06 PM
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Don't shoot it! It might have been loaded with smokeless powder.

You can either buy a ball puller or you can make one. Basically, a ball puller is a wood/sheet metal screw that attaches to the threaded end of a ram rod. With that short barrel, you may be able to use a pair needle nose pliers.
Thanks. There was no ball. Just two clothes wrapped up with powder. A dental pick did the job. Now the cleaning begins.
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Old 07-09-2018, 08:52 PM
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The 'Jukar' brand muzzle loader rifles, pistols and some shotguns were imported from Spain and sold in quantity in the 60's thru the 80's.
Lots of companys got into the BP craze by importing and selling them at very low prices. Kits were available too.
'Dikar' was another Spanish mfg name often seen on those guns and kits though Jukar was more common it seems.

They worked and filled a need at a price some people could afford. I'd bet they allowed an awful lot of people to get into BP shooting at the time.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:13 PM
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Thanks for the info. I did a little more research. One of the Revolvers (ASP) is a copy of the original 1861 Remington Beals. The ASM is a copy of the New Model Army.

The Remington Pistols - Traditional Muzzleloading Forum - Muzzleloader Flintlock Black Powder

Who knew.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:22 PM
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...little one looks like a John Wilkes Booth pistol...

...the real one below...

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Old 07-09-2018, 10:17 PM
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In High School History Class, I did a Civil War presentation.
One of my 'props' was a real Deringer.
It had been carried my a local lady's Grandfather.
He was a Confederate Army Surgeon [Doctor].
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:24 PM
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Johnny Reb would be puzzled by the brass framed Army New Models, since they were never made until more than100 years after the War Of Southern Treason.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
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Johnny Reb would be puzzled by the brass framed Army New Models, since they were never made until more than100 years after the War Of Southern Treason.
That's not a nice thing to say.
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Old 07-09-2018, 10:57 PM
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OK; Johnny Rebel then.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:05 PM
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The cap n' ball revolvers are an entire world unto themselves. Great fun.

I've been pining for either one of Remington's New Army pistols or a Col. Colt's revolving holster pistol of naval caliber.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:25 PM
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That's not a nice thing to say.
...Warren's got a problem with people who's ancestors are buried in the South...seems to have a real hate going...this isn't the first time it has come up...
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:41 PM
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Many, many years ago I had one of those little derringers. My friend Kip and I took a 1/2" drill bit to it and turned it into a .50 caliber smoothbore. It wasn't any less accurate after the conversion, but perhaps not quite as safe. Hey, we were in our early 20's! If that was the extent of the unsafe things we did, we'd have been doing well. But it wasn't.
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Old 07-09-2018, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
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Johnny Reb would be puzzled by the brass framed Army New Models, since they were never made until more than100 years after the War Of Southern Treason.
I assume you mean the War of Northern Aggression.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:05 AM
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I assume you mean the War of Northern Aggression.
Typical Yankee confusion!
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:14 AM
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So let me see, the major battle was This week was the anniversary of Lee going into the small market town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. It began as a skirmish but by its end involved 160,000 Americans.

I don't think Pennsylvania is south of the Mason Dixon line.....
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:38 AM
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Gentlemen! We're all on the same side now!
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:42 AM
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So let me see, the major battle was This week was the anniversary of Lee going into the small market town of Gettysburg, Pennsylvania. It began as a skirmish but by its end involved 160,000 Americans.

I don't think Pennsylvania is south of the Mason Dixon line.....
...the southern border of Pennsylvania IS the Mason Dixon line...

...Gettysburg is about ten miles north of the line...

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Old 07-10-2018, 02:00 AM
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Gentlemen! We're all on the same side now!
When did this happen?!!
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:46 AM
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...Warren's got a problem with people who's ancestors are buried in the South...seems to have a real hate going...this isn't the first time it has come up...
Hahhahahhaaa!!! Warren Sear has a problem with anyone who would bring war against his country, the United States of America.
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:10 AM
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Still waiting for the OP to explain why us Johnny Rebs would be proud?
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Old 07-10-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
Johnny Reb would be puzzled by the brass framed Army New Models, since they were never made until more than100 years after the War Of Southern Treason.
Warren, I didn't throw any stones, call any names, or even parse your comment to indicate what I was referring to. So from your responses it obvious you wanted to insult someone and/or their ancestors. Since we are nearly 160 years removed from the event I have to assume you meant their descendants.

For some reason it is a very fresh wound for you. I'm really sorry you have to deal with this every day of your life. Maybe it's time for you to just let it go. Go shooting or fishing or to a movie. Have a little fun.
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Old 07-10-2018, 10:58 AM
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Warren, I didn't throw any stones, call any names, or even parse your comment to indicate what I was referring to. So from your responses it obvious you wanted to insult someone and/or their ancestors. Since we are nearly 160 years removed from the event I have to assume you meant their descendants.

For some reason it is a very fresh wound for you. I'm really sorry you have to deal with this every day of your life. Maybe it's time for you to just let it go. Go shooting or fishing or to a movie. Have a little fun.
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Old 07-10-2018, 12:18 PM
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Still waiting for the OP to explain why us Johnny Rebs would be proud?
Wow, I didn't know I would stir-up so much emotion.

Traditionally (true or false?) guns with brass frames are often referred to as Southern guns due to lack of war time materials.

The tongue in cheek "Johnny Reb would be proud" comment refers to the excellent price I got on these 3 guns.

I assumed most everyone here would already know this? But I apologize if anyone took offense.
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Old 07-10-2018, 01:52 PM
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Thanks for the info. I did a little more research. One of the Revolvers (ASP) is a copy of the original 1861 Remington Beals. The ASM is a copy of the New Model Army.

The Remington Pistols - Traditional Muzzleloading Forum - Muzzleloader Flintlock Black Powder

Who knew.
You might want to check out the differences in the "Beals" Model Remington and the "New Model Army" Several that come to mind are: Brass CONE front sight. (It was not a brass blade like the one pictured.) The Beals loading lever was shaped differently than the later New Model. The Beals cylinder axle was slotted so it could be withdrawn easily. So easy, in fact, it sometimes withdrew itself as the revolver was fired. This could be very embarrassing, especially if you were participating in mortal combat at very close quarters. There was more barrel threads exposed at the end where it exited the frame.
I was very active in both BP shooting and Civil War reenacting in the late '60s and through the early 2000s' (It was actually politically correct. We even gave talks in schools when they actually studied the American Civil War....with an (unloaded) Reproduction or original Rifled Musket! Imagine..) I was appointed an officer on one of the more active Reenacting General's Staff. We did early war to the end, so a "New Model" would not be correct for very early events. I re-did a New Model so it would externally resemble a Beals. Here it is. The grip has some of the 125th and 150th events I attended. You have a great opportunity to get in some great fun shooting at very low cost. Suggestion: Change the percussion nipples out for some good AMPCO ones. Check out Dixie Gun Works on-line catalogue. If in doubt, call DGW and ask for "Jamie" .He's their gunsmith and can tell you exactly the sizes (all metric) of replacement you will need. They have the balls already cast, too.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:15 PM
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Wow, I didn't know I would stir-up so much emotion.

Traditionally (true or false?) guns with brass frames are often referred to as Southern guns due to lack of war time materials.

The tongue in cheek "Johnny Reb would be proud" comment refers to the excellent price I got on these 3 guns.

I assumed most everyone here would already know this? But I apologize if anyone took offense.
I doubt anyone took offense at anything your wrote.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:39 PM
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Spiller & Burr (Richmond, Virginia) made a brass frame revolver, which looked very much like the Remington Model 1858 Army revolver. These were produced for the Confederacy.
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Old 07-10-2018, 08:32 PM
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OK, back onto the topic of brass framed BP revolvers, here's a Spiller & Burr replica I own and a holster I made for it...
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Old 07-10-2018, 11:51 PM
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OK, back onto the topic of brass framed BP revolvers, here's a Spiller & Burr replica I own and a holster I made for it...
Well done!
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Old 07-18-2018, 08:33 PM
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Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warren Sear View Post
Johnny Reb would be puzzled by the brass framed Army New Models, since they were never made until more than100 years after the War Of Southern Treason.
Suah.....Are you 'referrin to the Wawh of Nawthern Agression?

(I had a GGGreat Uncle that helped burn Harrisburg, PA. He fell at Gettysburg.)
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  #32  
Old 07-18-2018, 08:46 PM
campchair campchair is offline
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Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0  
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Originally Posted by jhnttrpp View Post
I doubt anyone took offense at anything your wrote.
Hey, according to some original letters written home by some of my Johnny Reb ancestors talking about the poor quality and type of obsolete equipment they were issued, I'd say most would have been very proud to have what you have. (Just for the record, I had ancestors on both sides. I'm from North Alabama. It was very divided (as was my family) in their sentiments. BTW....none owned slaves although some were fairly well off........till the end of the war. The horrible after effects of the ACW seemed to affect Alabama vets equally no matter which side they chose. ) Absolutely no offense taken; Just thought you might like to know what a "Beals" looked like. Some of the first BP revolvers and pistols that hit this country in the early to middle 1969s' were sort of "creative" in their authenticity. But, they got a lot of folks into black powder and into shooting in general. Just replace the nipples, single shot and revolvers. Above all, be safe and have fun!!
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  #33  
Old 07-18-2018, 10:09 PM
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Warren Sear Warren Sear is offline
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Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0  
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^^^ Yay-uh; the Wah o'Nawthun Gresheon they-at the Say-outh a-Stawted.
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  #34  
Old 07-19-2018, 12:33 AM
snowman.45 snowman.45 is offline
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Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0  
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Might be a good time to study up on the background causes of the War Between the States. And feel free to respond in your native dialect. I think many of us can understand a Canadian accent.
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Last edited by snowman.45; 07-19-2018 at 08:09 AM.
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  #35  
Old 07-19-2018, 02:48 PM
campchair campchair is offline
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Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM View Post
In High School History Class, I did a Civil War presentation.
One of my 'props' was a real Deringer.
It had been carried my a local lady's Grandfather.
He was a Confederate Army Surgeon [Doctor].

That was back in the day. I did the same thing. Now, that'd get you body slammed by a SWAT member, charged with (and probably convicted of) a felony...That's what "Zero Tolerance" brings you. I can see what they want to prevent. Modern guns without special permission, yes. ...but, a single-shot muzzle-loader with an empty cartridge box and cap pouch, vetted by a responsible person prior to entering the school grounds?? That's what I offered to do in response to an invitation. The mantra of "We practice Zero Tolerance policies"was simply repeated to each accommodation I offered. Can't bring a gun; can't bring a knife. Can't MENTION a gun, can't MENTION a knife on school grounds. ???????
Of course, it also limits the study of the American Civil War to "The South was guilty, They Lost, and that was a long time ago". I understand that's about as much time given that subject, too.
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  #36  
Old 07-19-2018, 03:18 PM
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Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0 Johnny Reb would be Proud,  Box of Guns=0  
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The little one looks a lot like a kit built Dixie Gun Works black powder single shot, inaccurate small pistol.
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