A friend that I have known since the late 1970's recently sent me a package. These two knives were inside. He has apparently been buying knives he likes when he finds the right deal and decided to share these with me. I had not heard of either knife until now. In the small amount of research I have done, I have learned that they are both WWII vintage knives that were possibly military issue.

The Cattaraugus 225Q is commonly called the Quartermaster Knife, but there is little evidence that it was issued to the Quartermaster Corps. I have found a number of photos showing WWII soldiers carrying them. It has a very stout blade and is clearly a more heavy duty knife than the PAL RH36. The 225Q has a great heft and feel to it.

The PAL RH36 is a much lighter knife and I doubt it could hold up to hard use as well as the 225Q. It is still a very good knife and it seems to have a good reputation.

Anyway, my friend is having heart surgery next week and the outlook is good. I hope to visit with him in a month or so and talk more about these interesting knives.

I can't tell you anything about them,I do wish they were mine!

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Life is short,live it fully.

Cool enough to make me log in and give you a like.

I would like to find the right sheaths for them, but I think that will be tough. They are the first things to wear out and get trashed.

I had a later, commercially produced version of the smaller knife when I was a kid. Don't know what happened to it.

I have my father's PAL 36 and he was a bosuns mate during WWII and he used his all the time. It seems to have held up okay.

Nice knives. I have a Cattaraugus 225Q and a WWII Camillus Kbar.

My 225Q, I found in an antique shop about 15 years ago and paid $30.00 for it. The blade has some pitting on it from being left in the sheath, but other than that it is new. The sheath is in great condition too.

The Camillus Kbar was a gift from a patients husband. He had been in the Corps during Korea and wanted me to have the knife. Tried to tell him it should go to a family member, but he said no he wanted it to go to a Marine. I will give it to my Grandson someday as he is a L/Cpl now. This Kbar is in nice condition for having been used for a number of years in the field as it was intended to be used.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I have a Cattaraugus 225Q with the sheath. My father brought it back from the Pacific in WWII. It had belonged to a buddy who was killed. It is missing some of the leather pieces in the grip. I was thinking of sending it off to get it restored, but it would cost more than the knife is worth.

Get it restored. It came from your Father and it belonged to a friend of his who was killed (possibly a KIA). Sentiments and items of sentimental value have more value than money. Get it fixed for future generations to enjoy along with the stories that go with it. JMHO

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I've considered having it restored and putting it, as well as, the pilot survival knife that I carried, in a case with an explanation. I just don't know if any family members would appreciate them. At this point, I kind of doubt it.

If you watch, The Bridges at Toko-Ri or the clips on YouTube, look at the CAG's knife on his survival vest. It's a PAL RH-36.

Lt. Brubaker (Wm. Holden) has a Western shark knife.


Movie clip added. Has very dramatic action scenes of attack on enemy target, F-9F Panther jets. Look at the knives on the men's vests.

It's a real pity that those in the above posts were so mistreated.

The knives are very much what such pilots would have carried, whether Navy-issued or private purchase.
With those models, it could go either way, as the Navy did buy some of each.

The revolvers are S&W Victory Models. At that time, they were only a decade or less old.

That is too bad that no one in your family would appreciate them. That is a real shame. I have one Grandson that is in the Corps. He will get all my USMC marked and related items. My other Grandson will get whatever else he wants if anything. Hopefully, some has an interest.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

Had a leather wrapped handle Camillus from WW 2 that had a plastic or metal sheath way back when. Would serve as a bayonet I believe. Still got the NSKK dagger dad brought back. Quite the treasures these days.

Do not get it restored! The missing pieces may well be from when the origional owner was killed. They could be part of its history. I remember reading about some history majors restoring a helmet and breastplate in england. They took out all the dents made by french swords from the battle of Waterloo!!! Enjoy it for the history that goes with it. Write a little tag to hang on it with what you do know.

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Well done > well said

Did the History Majors know the helmet & breastplate were from the Battle of Waterloo? If so they were incredibly stupid and lacked common sense.

If the knife in question was used in a battle then leave it alone. If it was used by a named individual and damaged then, then leave it alone. If no significant history can be attributed to it, then restore it.

Look at all the rifles collectors on both sides of the pond restore. Is his history being lost or preserved? Some of the firearms were probably used and damaged in battle, but which battle? Or were they damaged in training or everyday use? If there is no way to answer the question then restore(preserve) the item. By restoring (preserving) people will want to have a nice looking specimen rather than some old beat up piece of junk. JMHO

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I agree most modern US military items are hard to trace but the knife has a story albeit not a complete one. Therefore I would document what I know and leave it alone as more info may show up one day. Maybe an old letter with a name? Maybe a picture with a name in some old photo's? Other knives are around to show what a better one looks like.

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Well done > well said

If you have a story to document and no one in either family wants it, then donate it to a museum connected with that branch of service.

I would think some British weapons would be just as hard to figure out what battles they were used in. The Brown Bess was in service from 1722 - 1838. Yes, most have a date on them, but what battles if any were they used in and how long were they actually in service? Go to the British Arms Forums and see the amount of restorations going on over there. Needham conversion of 1865 Bridesburg Contract rifle-musket - British Militaria Forums

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

No matter what side of the conflict we're on, these items represent real history, good and bad. But all worth remembering. I worked closely with German soldiers in Kosovo and I felt we had a real respect for each other. Great people. Times change, but history doesn't.

This is why folks collect things. Sometimes from both sides of a conflict.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

The Cattaraugus knives were actually used by quartermasters in the Navy. Beyond that, I don't know. There were a lot of them left over at the end of the war that were sold in the civilian market resulting in a lot of brand new knives in the hands of non-military civilians. The last one I had, I gave to my son when he left for his first tour in Iraq.

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Dr. B

I really can't comment on WW2 knives, wish I could I love knives. I have a case Cheetah I bought new in the 60's, but my prized possessions are 2 Kabar( Cammilus)knives in VF+ condition. My father ( an NCIS agent) got me the first one and it has a leather sheah stamped USN. I brought it home for me in the mid 50's, but I could not have it till I was older. The second is Cammilus USN MK 2 composite gray sheath. Both in wonderful condition. I did see a MK2 at aa LGS in horrible shape for 240.00. I need to research them. Thanks for the prompting to do that

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

There are reproduction RH36 sheaths, but I don't think there are any for 222Qs. I seriously doubt you'll find a period sheaths, by themselves, for either one.

I don't know if you're local to ABQ, but I've been collecting for years and live in ABQ. I've seen a number of RH36 knives around town, but I've only seen one 225Q in all the places that regularly frequent - I bought it and the Case 337XX twin that came in with it. That was 15+ years ago. I've nt seen one since.

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Thread Killer.

During WWII, as in previous and subsequent wars, and lulls between wars, servicemen in most armies were and have been allowed to purchase non-issue knives for use; especially during wartime when some rules governing or prohibitting possesion of non-issue equipment were relaxed, or ignored all together.

Those are great knives!! Thanks for sharing with us!! I love these older knives almost as much as older firearms!!

I don't know much about older service knives, but found this USN marked Ka-Bar at a gun show up in Pennsylvania last year. Appears to be around 1942 manufacture, based on some internet research, but I'm no expert....everyone knows that the Marine Corps have used the Ka-Bars since at least WWII, and it is almost synonymous with the Corps, but lesser known is that the Navy also were issued USN marked Ka-Bars very early in WWII:



It's hard to tell in my poor iPhone photo, but it has the USN marking just in front of the Gaurd. The sheath is a 1943 Boyt USN marked sheath.

The other side:



This is supposed to be how you can date these: the round tang is peened here. Later in the war they were peened in different fashion, and later still, had a cross pin through the plate.



I'm sure that we can find research material for the OP's knives.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Any hope of pictures?

I like WWII Ka-Bars. The handles seem slimmer than on new ones.

I read that most M-3's were given to France after WW II, the M-4 carbine bayonet replacing them in US service.

Cutlery Shoppe has sold a Gryphon M-30A1 that I think is a superb combat knife. It was designed by Robert Terzuola, who told me that he based it on the M-3. But it's considerably refined.

Here are the two I picked up all those years ago - the 337 is on the top:

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Thread Killer.

Les-

Contact, Knife World. They ran a series of articles by Frank Tzraska (sp?) a few years ago that gave a very close study of the Ka-Bar type knives, which were actually developed by Camillus.

I don't seem to have saved those, but editor Mark Zalesky will recall them and may have back issues for sale. These articles were VERY detailed and covered all contractors

Ka-bar makes a nice reproduction of the USN "Mark I" with a 5" blade that makes a great utility knife. IIRC I've seen some references to the Mark I as a "Deck Knife"

While I have a couple of 7" Ka-bars I find the 5" Mark I much handier and less tacticoooool! I use an aftermarket sheath made by "Savage Sheaths" out of Va.

The sheath on the Cattaraugus 225Q that my father brought back from the war in the Pacific, has the name of the previous owner scratched into it. Before my father's death, he told me that the name was his buddy who was killed. He gave me no other information.

BAM-BAM:

Thanks for the heads up!! We must have some tastes in common, as the last time that I was at the "Smoky Mountain Knife Works", down in Tennessee, I picked up that very same knife (along with a bunch of other edged weapons). But I was so disappointed in the poorly made sheath that it has stayed in the box that I brought it home in. I just checked out Savage Sheaths, and am going to order a new sheath for it. They seem to have some very good quality sheaths available.

Best Regards, Les

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SWCA 3084, SWHF 495, PGCA 3064

Back to restoration - seldom a good idea to restore any historic military weapons. I remember reading a story by a somewhat advanced military collector. Early in his collecting career he had found a British musket from the Crimean War (1853-56) era. But it was painted black. He removed all the paint thinking it had been added somewhat later by a previous owner. After some subsequent research, he found that many British muskets in the Crimea had been painted black in the field so they would not make such good targets for the Russians to aim at. At that time, many muskets were left "in the White" (polished bare steel). Sun on shiny muskets make good aiming points.

Concur.
Restoration of knives is seldom if ever a good idea.
Here’s a guy ready to strap on a Corsair.

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