Weird guns

Patbar · #1 07-17-2018, 11:26 AM

I know that this forum is dedicated to Smith & Wesson, but the guns pictured below, although not being S&W’s, are strongly related to this company because of the Rollin White patent which prevented to produce guns with bored through cylinders like S&W did with their 1, 1 ½ et 2 models between 1857 and 1872.

I collect S&W’s because I love them, but I also like weird guns and this is why I thought it could interest some members of this forum by presenting four of the most popular guns among those who tried to produce metallic cartridge guns without transgressing the White patent.

1 - The "Moore teatfire" : produced from 1864 to 1870 in a quantity of around 30,000, this revolver was loaded by the front of the cylinder with a 32 caliber “teatfire” cartridge.

2 - The "Plant cupfire" : produced from about 1865 to ? in a quantity of around 28,000 in caliber 30 et 42, this revolver was also loaded by the front of the cylinder with a “cupfire” cartridge. The case extractor can be seen at the rear of the cylinder.

3 - The "Slocum" and its sliding chambers in 32 RF caliber, produced from 1863 to 1864 in a quantity of more than 10 000. Besides offering the benefit of using standard cartridges, the chamber when it slid on the affixed case extractor, permitted at the same time to expel the spent case while loading a new cartridge

4 - The "Lucius Pond" and its removable chambers in 32 RF caliber, produced from 1863 to 1870 in a quantity of several thousands. It was the least practical of all because it was necessary to take the cylinder out and remove the chambers to load a cartridge in each, and put everything back before being able to fire it.

As a matter of fact, before this removable chambers gun, Pond had produced a 32 RF revolver with a classical bored through cylinder. But to avoid a trial with S&W, he had to sell them the 3,000 guns he had in stock for $7.50 each, and S&W in turn sold them in the public for $14.50 each with the marking « made for Smith & Wesson added on the barrel.

6518John · #2 07-17-2018, 11:43 AM

I have a hard time envisioning Dirty Harry saying “this is a Moore Teatfire and it will blow your head clean off!”

Beautiful guns and thanks for posting.

deadin · #3 07-17-2018, 12:27 PM

Amazing with what they came up with to avoid the Rollin White patent.

Jtown · #4 07-17-2018, 03:43 PM

Excellent, very interesting.
Walt

shouldazagged · #5 07-17-2018, 11:48 PM

Splendid selection of really unusual guns. I had never heard of any of them.

Thank you.

first-model · #6 07-18-2018, 10:16 AM

Excellent collection! I also collect Rollin White patent evasions.

I've long thought that the Lucius Pond belt revolver was one of the best made guns of that era. The hinge is very solid and the machining is second-to-none. I encourage you to find one (if you haven't already).

Mike

500SNW · #7 07-18-2018, 10:53 AM

That first revolver has a horrible grip design...more like a finger groove than a grip. Thankfully, those small calibers had very little recoil.

Thuer · #8 07-18-2018, 11:13 AM

I love those revolvers. I do have the Made for Smith and Wesson Lucius Pond revolver. In the picture you see the Small cupfire and the 3e model Plant cupfire revolver. The nice thing about this revolver is that you can put a percussion cilinder in it as well.

Patbar · #9 07-18-2018, 11:40 AM

Boy, I really envy you, Thuer. I'd really love to have the 3rd model Plant cupfire revolver and the Lucius Pond Belt revolver !

As Mike wrote, this Pond revolver was even better designed than the S&W No.2, especially because the hinge was placed at the rear of the frame, which provided a rigid alignment of the cylinder and barrel.

model3sw · #10 07-19-2018, 11:40 AM

I started collecting Rollin White patent infringement gun years ago along side the S&W models. I have just about every model produced, pre-1900, save very few, and multiples of some. You know how that goes, you start collecting then you find similar and / or next revision of the same models of find one you have in a higher conditions. In short, they just "accumulate"

Of those you show I have the Brooklyn Arms Slocum .32, and the Moore both in upper condition ranges, like yours. Also have a National, a Rollin White, a Marlin, and a few others. I don't have a Pond or a Plant.

I've seen more than the usual amount come up for sale lately but none that were in higher grade or preservation enough to excite me.

nutsforsmiths · #11 07-28-2018, 01:36 AM

I'm familiar with three of them but had never heard of a Slocom sliding chamber. That one is pretty ingenious if you ask me. I might have to look for one of those.

Thanks for posting.

S&WsRsweet · #12 07-28-2018, 05:04 AM

Thanks for the interesting posts and information. Being relativly new to the forum I haven't seen or even heard of a couple of those before.

steelslaver · #13 07-28-2018, 06:41 AM

It always amazes me what kind of ideas were tried in the early development of devices. Some of them showed ingenuity and some of them hair brained. Stuff like this done in the days when it took a real clever machinist just to make anything. Every cutter hand made, reamers and drills etc.

Though interesting some of the designs using modern loads would result in "This is a Slocum 44 mag and it might blow my hand plum off"

Mrnurse · #14 07-28-2018, 07:08 AM

Thanks for posting.... Learning is a life long endeavor.

Breakaway500 · #15 07-28-2018, 08:17 AM

Cool revolvers. My Slocomb was an impulse buy at a gun show many years ago. It was so innovative, I had to have it. Nobody wants those old bones anyways...so it was cheap...

mrcvs · #16 07-28-2018, 08:32 PM

Thank you for posting this. I wasn't aware of the Slocum and have decided this is a neat little toy I'll have to try and acquire. I should add that I did acquire a Moore's teatfire years ago because it had condition and the "wow, this is neat" factor was there, especially given the low sale price for that one.