Came across this yesterday.
My question are:

1. What is it ?
2. Can it be sold ?
3. What's it worth ?

I am a realtor and you never know what you might find.
This man's father ( Who is in Nursing home )had it with other WW11 militaria memorabilia and they are looking to sell.

mscook

Attached Images

	IMG_4268.jpg (99.9 KB, 448 views)
	IMG_4283.jpg (71.3 KB, 415 views)

It looks like one is a German MG34 (machine gun, hopefully legal or can be made legal by deactivating) and the other is a German G43 (semi automatic), both 8mm and both used during the war. Prices for these are all over the place based upon originality, markings, condition and how many people are looking at them. If you look at the site where people auction guns you will observe many examples of these great firearms.

It would be great to obtain the history of how the owner obtained these guns to pass along to the next caretaker.

If you are trying to assist the family and the original owner in the nursing home has this from his WWII service, then I would approach one of the class 3 FFL holders in the proper procedure to apply for that $200 stamp that makes this legal to own and legal to sell to a buyer. I am speaking of the first one that does appear to be a MG34 German machine gun used in WWII. Google does produce several different values, but even at the lower part, this is a very valuable piece of history and can be conveyed to others thru property Class 3 FFL and a $ 200 tax stamp. This gun alone could pay for several months in the nursing home for our old vet. I do not have a clue about the second one, but I would wager another "several 4 figures" value when it is identified.

Wow, You’ve got to be kidding. If that MG34 in the first pic is automatic, and not square with the ATF, its a serious felony with time in federal prison. Proceed at Your own risk.

AFAIK, there is no legal way to sell it. If converted to semi, the reciever is considered a machine-gun by the ATF, and there are no “amnesty periods” to register it. I would torch-cut it personally. Worry about pic 2 after You get rid of pic 1.

I'm not a Class III, or any level, dealer and perhaps one will chime in, but I don't think any machine gun not registered as of 1986(?) can be registered and is essentially contraband. That's what I remember anyway.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

There are many MG34s that have been made into display guns (deactivated) or made into semi automatics.

TNW firearms builds a receiver and uses it with MG34 parts kits to make semiautomatic MG34s. There are also many people that reweld destroyed automatic receivers into a semi automatic receiver for their MG34 builds, it is not necessarily an operable machine gun.

MSCook, ask Yourself who else is reading this thread.

I hope all who read this understand
I sell homes and farms
During the inspection period you come across
a lot of different items that people collect.

This man is a WW2 vet in a nursing home and I might add on a very limited
income. I have been assured that all his collection is legal.

However that is always those that are quick to point out every fault they find and work quickly to make corrections.


I posted this picture to gather information, not to list something to sell.

Thanks' to all for the help I will pass it along.

mscook

"Substantial" value there. The substance of which depends upon the condition of the pieces. From the looks of them, they are not in very bad shape. They should be evaluated by a Class III expert and likely auctioned off after being well advertised. Just my opinion and two cents....

If the MG34 is live and "legal", there's paperwork, somewhere. It would be in the person's best interest who has possession of that to find it immediately, if not sooner. Simple possession is a crime and will cost that person lots of time and money - and possible prison time, especially, now, that's it's been posted online with questions about its legality.

The feds actually have people who browse firearm forums... Just a suggestion, but maybe asking a moderator to delete this thread would be best for everyone involved.

__________________
Thread Killer.

The G43 is a nice piece, but as others have said, the precise status of the MG34 needs to be determined before somebody finds themselves shacked up in Club Fed with Bubba.

__________________
Release the Kraken

What paperwork? This stuff probably came back as a souvenir in a couple duffel bags. My secretary had a 30 cal luger her father brought back from the war. I remember everybody looking at it, and waving it around. I grabbed it and asked if anybody ever checked it. Nope, nobody. There was no round in the chamber, but the mag was full

__________________
Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

There are several possibilities on the first item, a MG34 machine gun.

1. If it has been registered there will be paperwork on it. Possibly a ATF Form 4 or a Form 4467. If so the firearm is legal and considered transferable to an individual and will have a substantial value. Could be in the $25K or above range.

2. The firearm has been registered as a "sample", that is to say it can be possessed by a licensed dealer. Depending upon when preregistered before or after May 1986 it could be possesed by the individual that was a dealer and owned it, value would be about $10-15K. If it is after May 1986 only and active dealer can own it and value would be around $2-5K.

3. The item was never registered. In which case it is considered an illegal firearm and the penalties for possession can be quite stiff (up to 10 years and up to $10K fine). If unregistered there is currently no legal way to register it and make it legal to possess. One could strip all the parts off it and keep them and surrender the receiver (legally the firearm) to the BATF.

Please keep in mind that in most all cases only the person the firearm is registered to can possess it. In other words, even if registered your being in possession of it would be, technically, a violation.

As much as it pains me to see such a valuable item, with tremendous sentimental and historical value, be lost to bureaucracy, my suggestion is that you contact your local BATF and surrender the item to them. They will be able to determine the legality of the item. If legal it may be able to be sold for the gentleman through a local machine gun dealer.

Good luck.

Second that motion

Any class 3 weapon prior to 1986 is transferable. You most definitely will have to go through a class 3 dealer for any sale. The value of these type weapons are in the 4 and possibly 5 digit category. Be careful and stay within the laws for this WWII veteran.

Actually automatic weapons imported between 1968 and 1986 are considered pre-May dealer samples and thus have limitations on how and to whom they may be transferred.

Gee! Didn’t that get lost when you had that boating accident?

__________________
I told you not to use Lifebuoy

its been de activated I checked It will not shoot
Also it has no barrel

Lack of a barrel will not constitute a dewat and a dewat still needs to be registered

See page 68
https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/at...er-10/download

Capture papers have sometimes been accepted as registration, or
so I've heard. Something to check up on.

Simple,,,,,,,It has to be in the NFA registry(registered) to be legal for any one to possess or for it to be sold as part of the estate.
Registration papers should be with the gun if it is so registered. If the papers are not found, a search of the NFA registry by the BATF will show that if is (or not). If it is regsistered, a duplicate set of registration papers can be issued.

If the gun is not registered,,it is Contraband. Period.
It can not be registered at this time.
It cannot be made in to an 'Unserviceable' machinegun and kept as some kind of curio or keepsake.
Possession is a felony, plain and simple.

At one time weapons like this were imported and sold as 'DEWATS" (Deactivated War Trophys). They had their bbls plugged, breech welded shut or the breech face welded over. It satisfied the requirements of ownership of an unserviceable machinegun at the time.
No more.
Since 1968,, DEWATS must be registered the same as a live machinegun. The $200 tax fee was waived on them upon registration and during any transfer. That was all the difference.

Missing a bbl?,,That's just a piece of steel and no different than a bbl from a kids .22 single shot rifle. A gun part you can sell and send through the mail. An expensive and valuable part though.
There are a bunch of very valuable parts on these guns that carry no legal issues with them. They are just that,,parts.
But there are others, like the recv'r and some small parts that when possessed together are considered a 'machinegun' even though it's just a part or parts.
These must be registered as well,,and as above,,there is no path to doing that anymore.
The last time an amnesty to register any of this stuff was allowed was the month of Nov in 1968.

No sane gun dealer and certainly no one who cherishes their 09 or 10 class FFL would dare get involved with an unregistered full auto weapon.

If you can't produce the Fed registration for the weapon, then contact the BATF to see if it may be registered.
It may very well be. If it is, a dupl set of papers will come your way.
The gun will be taken for safe keeping till that fact is satisfied I would assume.
IF the gun IS NOT registered,,it will be confiscated and will not be coming back.
That's just the way it is.
You do NOT want to mess around with NFA and especially contraband full auto weapons.
From the BATF NFA Handbook;

'Section 3.3 Status of unregistered firearms
Firearms not lawfully registered as required by the NFA may not be registered and legitimized by their
possessors. They are contraband and unlawful to possess.49 However, see Section 2.4 for information
on removing NFA firearms from the scope of the NFA because of their status as collectors’ items,
modification, or elimination of certain component parts. '

Download full NFA Handbook here:
National Firearms Act Handbook | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Here's a link to a BATF NFA / informational letter concerning the transfer of an NFA weapon from an estate you might find helpful.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/tr...tates/download

Hope these help..Stay out of trouble!

There was a case not too long ago (I think in Massachusetts) where a WWI Maxim MG-08 with carriage was discovered in a museum storage warehouse. It was operable, and had never been registered. The museum wanted to keep it due to its historic significance and tried to work something out with BATFE, and I think their local congressman was involved. Nothing helped, and I seem to remember BATFE eventually destroyed it. Maybe someone else knows more of the details.