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Old 08-06-2018, 06:19 AM
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Default I've been thinking about an idea for a collection....

...I've just gotten into surplus rifles. I started loading for a friend's 7.7mm Arisaka, then I got a Mosin for myself, and now I have an Norinco SKS. I was thinking that if I got an .303 Enfield SMLE and an Arisaka for myself, I would have four surplus rifles that use the same bullet, if not the same cartridge. Since neither rifle would break the bank, it's possible of even someone broke like me to have a 'thematic' collection. I wouldn't mind having a Mauser, but the bullet is 8mm.

It sounds like an attainable goal, for me anyway.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:50 AM
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You'll need one of each variation of Lee-Enfield...and Arisaka...and maybe SKS...and the AK series uses the same bullet diameter. Sounds like the beginning of a long, slippery slope, enjoy the plunge .
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Old 08-06-2018, 08:04 AM
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The Argentine's used the same diameter bullet in their Mausers (along with Belgium).

The Brits were very unhappy about that cartridge (7.65x53) during the Falkland Island War. (ca.1982)

Belgium went with the NATO rounds a long time ago, but the Argentinians can't afford to re-equip their military. (I think they are still paying off all the fighter jets they borrowed during that war!)

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Old 08-06-2018, 09:08 AM
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Back in the late 1970's through early 1980's I had no money, so I started buying military surplus rifles. . .WWII and earlier. Most were in the $30 range. I remember the British rifles were higher going for around $45 for nice ones. Got most all of them, but stayed away from American rifles because they were just too costly for me. Getting the bayonets later was a much more difficult task. I finally had more money, and was able to afford them. The French and Russian bayonets from WWI were the most difficult to locate. It was a fun hobby and resulted in about 25 different rifles.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:42 AM
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Actually, the .303 Enfields, M-Ns, and 7.7 Arisakas generally shoot OK with .308" bullets even though they are a little smaller. I no longer have any of those rifles, but at one time I did, and loaded for them.
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Old 08-06-2018, 10:58 AM
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When it comes to Arisaka Rifles, beware the replica training Rifles. Sometimes folks who don't know what they have sell replicas of Arisaka Rifles which are smoothbore and made of alloy rather than steel which were intended to be used as training Rifles by the Japanese Military during the war. Said replicas can/will chamber real cartridges, but will most likely explode if fired, and even if you don't intend to fire them, said replicas don't have the same collector's value as genuine Arisaka Rifles, but may be sold for the same price as a real one if the seller doesn't know any better.

The easiest way to spot a trainer is the bore, since all of them were smoothbore with no rifling.
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Old 08-06-2018, 11:02 AM
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Boy this thread brings back the memories of the cheap milsurp days of the early 70s. Even the chain department stores had a stack on the floor in the sporting goods section. My friend picked up a 7.7 Type 99 for $25. Not going to mention 98ks even with bolt m/m prices these days.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
The Argentine's used the same diameter bullet in their Mausers (along with Belgium).

The Brits were very unhappy about that cartridge (7.65x53) during the Falkland Island War. (ca.1982)

Belgium went with the NATO rounds a long time ago, but the Argentinians can't afford to re-equip their military. (I think they are still paying off all the fighter jets they borrowed during that war!)

Ivan
Are you saying the Argentine army was using 7.65 Mausers during that war? If so, I would bet they were only issued to snipers.

IIRC the gag with that war was that both sides used versions of the FAL in 7.62 NATO, Brits semi only and the Argies had select fire. I recall seeing film of the British troops taking weapons from prisoners in Port Stanley and making a huge stack of them. They all looked like FALs to me.
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Old 08-06-2018, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by rwsmith View Post
...I've just gotten into surplus rifles. I started loading for a friend's 7.7mm Arisaka, then I got a Mosin for myself, and now I have an Norinco SKS. I was thinking that if I got an .303 Enfield SMLE and an Arisaka for myself, I would have four surplus rifles that use the same bullet, if not the same cartridge. Since neither rifle would break the bank, it's possible of even someone broke like me to have a 'thematic' collection. I wouldn't mind having a Mauser, but the bullet is 8mm.

It sounds like an attainable goal, for me anyway.
7.65 Mauser and .303 British use the same diameter bullet, .312". That's a bit beefy for some variants of Mosin, especially Finn rebuilds.
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Old 08-06-2018, 02:40 PM
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Been there, Done that! I had quite a collection of milsurp rifles in the early '70's when the going price was $25 to $50 each and the bayonets were usually a toss in to complete the deal. Now the bayonets cost at least two to three as much as the rifles did then.
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:14 PM
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Default Uh Oh.....

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Originally Posted by murphydog View Post
You'll need one of each variation of Lee-Enfield...and Arisaka...and maybe SKS...and the AK series uses the same bullet diameter. Sounds like the beginning of a long, slippery slope, enjoy the plunge .
Wow. A challenge. Fortunately I just plain won't be able to do that, And I like the SKS much better than the AK. But it's a nice dream. And how many Enfield models were there?????
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Old 08-06-2018, 07:15 PM
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Default Ok, another one....

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Originally Posted by LVSteve View Post
7.65 Mauser and .303 British use the same diameter bullet, .312". That's a bit beefy for some variants of Mosin, especially Finn rebuilds.
I thought the Mauser bullet was bigger. Oh well, another challenge.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:50 AM
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I thought the Mauser bullet was bigger. Oh well, another challenge.

You're right, 7.65 is larger, but by less than .001" if you use metric measure and don't round up too much.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:25 AM
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#1mkIII, #4MKI*,#4MK1/2,#4MKII, #5 aka jungle carbine. Those are the ones that I can remember at 71 and a bit I think that's doing great. I have a #4MKI* made by Long Branch in Canada 1942. Then after the war the British had so many enfields that Parker Hale bought a bunch and made sporters out of them. They made I believe 3 or 4 different sporters based on the #4 rifles. I have the cheapest grade. Chopped the barrel back to about 22", cut the forend back, installed a Parker Hale front sight ramp cut for the #4 sight blade/insert. they also did the #1MKIII,and both models P13 in 303 British and U.S.Model of 1917 in 30-06. Some would argue that collecting just the Parker hale sporters would be a good start in any English rifle themed collection. I've accumulated a few mil surps over the years starting about 1968 or so. Used to be a rifle of the month club member. Would swap or trade plus some money to get something that I thought I couldn't live without. Best part is that even after all these years the barrels on mine look way better than some of the mil surps some dealers sell today. not many mil surps coming into the country now so those that are already here do command and get somewhat high prices. Most of the 303 British made during WWII and later are well past their best use by date. 8mm mauser is hard to find, with the sanctions against Russia even 7.62x54r is getting hard to find. Couple factoids regarding British Enfields. During WWII they relaxed their barrel specs regarding bore diameters. .312 is what it is supposed to be or close to it. Oversized bore diameters were the rule. Supposedly after the war those specs were reinstated. Good luck on your themed collection. Hornady does still make their .312 bullets in both 150 and 180 grains. Frank
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Old 08-07-2018, 10:01 PM
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Default I read something that said....

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Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Actually, the .303 Enfields, M-Ns, and 7.7 Arisakas generally shoot OK with .308" bullets even though they are a little smaller. I no longer have any of those rifles, but at one time I did, and loaded for them.
...that you could shoot .308 bullets out of Russian rifles, I have enough bullets that I could experiment with.
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Old 08-07-2018, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirty Harry Callahan View Post
When it comes to Arisaka Rifles, beware the replica training Rifles. Sometimes folks who don't know what they have sell replicas of Arisaka Rifles which are smoothbore and made of alloy rather than steel which were intended to be used as training Rifles by the Japanese Military during the war. Said replicas can/will chamber real cartridges, but will most likely explode if fired, and even if you don't intend to fire them, said replicas don't have the same collector's value as genuine Arisaka Rifles, but may be sold for the same price as a real one if the seller doesn't know any better.

The easiest way to spot a trainer is the bore, since all of them were smoothbore with no rifling.
I have one of them. Mine is the so-called "Izawa" style, somewhat resembling the Type 99, and it couldn't fire anything, as it has a fairly small diameter chamber. Perhaps there may have been some blank round made for it, but I have not been able to find anything about it if it exists. Mine has no Mum on the front receiver ring, and no indication that it ever did. I believe all combat rifles had the Mum. There were several other types of training rifles used, but I have never seen any of them. They are very unusual, as I have understood almost all of them were destroyed during the occupation period. They were used for military indoctrination and training of students in Japan's equivalent of High School.


Last edited by DWalt; 08-07-2018 at 11:52 PM.
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