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Old 08-09-2018, 09:30 AM
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Hi:
Were Luger P-08s still being manufactured during WWII even when P-38s became the standard German sidearm ?

Thanks,
Jimmy
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:38 AM
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The Walther P38 started production in 1940. (There were some developmental models prior to this) . Mauser produced P08's up until 1942 or so, so yes there was an overlap.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:43 AM
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If you can find a P-08 for a reasonable price grab it as very often fetching big money these days.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:56 AM
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My P-08 has a "41" on the top.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:00 AM
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Krieghoff made Lugers well into 1944.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by sheepdawg View Post
Krieghoff made Lugers well into 1944.
Krieghoff in Suhl is an interesting case. According to various sources, like the “Standard Catalog of Luger” by Davis, they got a Luftwaffe (air force) contract in 1934, and produced the parts for all 13,590 Luger pistols they eventually made by the end of 1937. Then they finished and delivered batches through 1944.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:52 AM
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Here you go.
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Old 08-09-2018, 01:03 PM
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Always keeping an eye out for an Artillery Luger, doesn't have to match, just shoot so I can then get an aftermarket stock to snap on it! I wonder why the BATF allows aftermarket stocks for lugers, but it has to be a period correct stock for the Inglis HP?
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Old 08-09-2018, 01:46 PM
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Yes, I confess, I want a rugged shooter Luger. No practical reason. Enjoy yours!
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Old 08-09-2018, 02:43 PM
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I think Mauser filled a 1943 order from Portugal. Maybe Kurusu knows the date for sure.

They were able to do so without disturbing delivery schedules for Germany, so maybe the Germans weren't acccepting more Lugers by then. Mauser was also making P-38's, and those were probably preferred.

Later, Portugal also used P-38's, but I don't know when they were acquired. Again, Kurusu is probably our best source, as he is Portuguese.

Last edited by Texas Star; 08-09-2018 at 02:45 PM.
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:00 PM
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I think Mauser filled a 1943 order from Portugal. Maybe Kurusu knows the date for sure.

They were able to d so without disturbing delivery schedules for Germany, so maybe the Germans weren't accepting more Lugers by then. Mauser was also making P-38's, and those were probably preferred.

Later, Portugal also used P-38's, but I don't know when they were acquired. Again, Kurusu is probably our best source, as he is Portuguese.
The Portuguese contract was fulfilled with byf 42 Lugers from Mauser that were initially destined to the German Army, they can only be distinguished as Portuguese by the serial number and suffix block letter (m ). They are marked P.08 on the left side just like the German ones, but for us are the M943. 1942 was the last year of Luger production for Mauser. It was also the first year Mauser produced the P.38.

It was only because we insisted on the Luger, even after being told by Mauser that production was ending, that arrangements were made to deliver P.38s instead of P.08s to the German Army. But the lvery ast ones m and n sufix block letter went to Hungary.

We only adopted the P.38 in 1961. They are technically of the P1 pattern (alloy frame) but are marked P.38 on the slide.
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Old 08-09-2018, 03:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Kurusu View Post
The Portuguese contract was fulfilled with byf 42 Lugers from Mauser that were initially destined to the German Army, they can only be distinguished as Portuguese by the serial number and suffix block letter (m ). They are marked P.08 on the left side just like the German ones, but for us are the M943. 1942 was the last year of Luger production for Mauser. It was also the first year Mauser produced the P.38.

It was only because we insisted on the Luger, even after being told by Mauser that production was ending, that arrangements were made to deliver P.38s instead of P.08s. But the very ast ones m and n sufix block letter went to Hungary.

We only adopted the P.38 in 1961. They are technically of the P1 pattern (alloy frame) but are marked P.38 on the slide.
Mario-

Look at the highlighted part of your post. I'm confused. Did Portugal accept some P-38's to fill that order? But not officially adopt the P-38/P-1 until 1961? How many P-08's were received in 1943, made from parts presumably left over in 1942?

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Old 08-09-2018, 04:27 PM
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Mario-

Look at the highlighted part of your post. I'm confused. Did Portugal accept some P-38's to fill that order? But not officially adopt the P-38/P-1 until 1961? How many P-08's were received in 1943, made from parts presumably left over in 1942?
It was not us but the German Army that received the P.38s early. Sorry for the mess. I went back and edited it (should have proofread it before posting but was late for dinner)

The Lugers weren't made from leftover parts. They were officially accepted only in 1943. Those pistols were ready to deliver to the German Army but diverted to us. They were about 5000. Started early in the m series (140 something) to the fulfillement of the contract. It must be kept in mind that the numbers are not linear. There would be gaps in it, mostly, I believe, because some already numbered guns would fail trials.

I will add that it took some time and redtape to allow the delivery of the pistols to Portugal. But, we were good Mauser clients, and strategicaly important suppliers of Tungsten (a.k.a. Wolfram) to Germany(and to the allies for that matter) during the war.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:10 PM
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The so called Luger pistols were even manufactured in East Germany well after the war with all newly made parts under the notorious 1001 designation. Plenty of magazines with that designation were made at Haenel in East Germany but just a few P.08s.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:10 PM
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The so called Luger pistols.....
Interesting point, by the way.

Poor Georg Luger, an Austrian, who developed the original design and the cartridge, didn’t get any respect in the country where most of the pistols were built.

Basically, nobody in Germany called the pistol a “Luger” until long after WW II, when English-language gun books were translated into German. It was the Parabellum pistol, Luger’s original name for it, and later simply the “Null-Acht” or zero-eight after its P-08 military designation.

But from early on, the Luger name became associated with the gun in the United States, and it was marketed as such.

Attached: Catalogs from 1910 (US; Abercrombie & Fitch) and 1912 (Germany; Stukenbrok).
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:48 PM
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Mauser was still making P08 pistols when I visited the factory in 1988, and I would imagine they still are.

WTH is this "Luger" of which is being spoken??? What is written on the side of yours?
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:19 PM
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Mauser was still making P08 pistols when I visited the factory in 1988,...
Not STILL, they were making them AGAIN

They started manufacturing various batches and special/commemorative editions sometime in the 1970s.
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Old 08-09-2018, 11:34 PM
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Always keeping an eye out for an Artillery Luger, doesn't have to match, just shoot so I can then get an aftermarket stock to snap on it! I wonder why the BATF allows aftermarket stocks for lugers, but it has to be a period correct stock for the Inglis HP?
Have this 1916 DWM Artillery. They are really a nice piece of machinery. I have enjoyed owning it for a number of years.

enjoy,
bdGreen



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Old 08-10-2018, 01:40 AM
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My wife’s Uncle Dale grew up in Elberton, Ga and as a kid would stop by a pawn shop on his way home from school several times a week. One day in 1955 he found this 1916 Luger and a long barreled Artilley Luger. He had the money saved up and asked his dad to go with him to purchase it and he left with the Luger, 1917 dated holster, tool, and two magazines and $25 less in his account. He now wishes he had gotten the Artilley Model. I think he said it was the same price. This one was issued during WWI to 2.M.C. R.158 or 2nd Machine Gun Company, Regiment No. 158. This was a Prussian regiment, originally, “7.Lothringisches Infanterie Regiment, established on 31 March 1897 in Paderborn, Germany. At the outbreak of the Great War, the 158th was assigned to the 13th Infantry Division, VII Corps, 2nd Army. In March, 1915 the 158th was transferred to the 50th Division and remained with them until the end of the war. The combat record of the 158th is very interesting. It was part of the Imperial German element that invaded Belgium fighting in both Champagne and Artois prior to its transfer to the 50th Infantry Division. After joining the 50th, the 158th fought in Verdun-Vaux, Argonne, Aisne, St. Quentin, Aisne, Rheims, Meuse and was in the Meuse area at the Armistice. I am now the proud owner of this one.



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Old 08-10-2018, 03:52 AM
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Default To me the Luger.....

...still looks like a futuristic gun, almost like a 'ray gun' from the old comics. I have really crummy vision but I can recognize a Luger from a mile away.

Besides the fact that they have "Pistol for the Master Race" written all over them, my jaw drops at how clever the intertial toggle is.
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Old 08-10-2018, 06:22 AM
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Have this 1916 DWM Artillery. They are really a nice piece of machinery. I have enjoyed owning it for a number of years.



enjoy,

bdGreen








Very nice. Have you shot it ?

This whole thread and your artillery model in particular made me want to buy this one, which just popped up locally at what seems to be a very reasonable price. (Sorry for crappy pics, taken from the classified website).





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Old 08-10-2018, 08:26 AM
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No handgun sits in your hand quite like a Luger.

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Old 08-10-2018, 06:00 PM
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Very nice. Have you shot it ?
I have not shot this one.
I had a nice 'shooter' many years ago and did shoot it. I traded it off for no particular reason.

I have since purchased this one and a nice Mauser Banner and have chosen to not shoot them.

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Old 08-10-2018, 06:42 PM
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You know the ONE gun you most regret selling or trading away? Well, my example is this one. It's an absolutely MINT P.08/14 Artillery Luger, DWM, produced in 1917. I apologize for the quality of this picture, but it was taken with a cheap Polaroid camera around 1975 before I got much better photo gear. It's shown in a custom case with a German WWI Iron Cross for an accent.

A REALLY serious Luger collector managed to talk me into trading it straight across for an AR-180 with scope and another artillery Luger of lesser quality. Like a dumb-***, I finally caved.

I'm still kicking myself for ever letting it go...

John

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Old 08-10-2018, 10:14 PM
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Always keeping an eye out for an Artillery Luger, doesn't have to match, just shoot so I can then get an aftermarket stock to snap on it! I wonder why the BATF allows aftermarket stocks for lugers, but it has to be a period correct stock for the Inglis HP?
I think the BATF has changed the rules again, and you now have to have an original shoulder stock for the Luger pistol for it to be excluded from NFA rules. Plus not just any original mfg Luger pistol stock. In some instances the language on the 2018 updated C&R list Section III gives very precise model and variation (and in one case numerical dimentions) of the proper stock which may only be attached to a certain Luger pistol and not be in violation of NFA regs if not registered.

All the other shoulder stocked pistols on the list (Steyr, Inglis, Colt, Mauser ect) they all state 'original mfg' stock too. I do not see the once listed notations about repro stocks of authentic style and dimentions being acceptable any more.

I would check directly with the BATF Technology Div for an even better up to date ruling. Old letters and ruling mean nothing if they are over ruled and out dated. It's easy to get sideways of NFA.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/un...-2018/download.
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Old 08-13-2018, 10:28 AM
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I think the BATF has changed the rules again, and you now have to have an original shoulder stock for the Luger pistol for it to be excluded from NFA rules. Plus not just any original mfg Luger pistol stock. In some instances the language on the 2018 updated C&R list Section III gives very precise model and variation (and in one case numerical dimentions) of the proper stock which may only be attached to a certain Luger pistol and not be in violation of NFA regs if not registered.

All the other shoulder stocked pistols on the list (Steyr, Inglis, Colt, Mauser ect) they all state 'original mfg' stock too. I do not see the once listed notations about repro stocks of authentic style and dimentions being acceptable any more.

I would check directly with the BATF Technology Div for an even better up to date ruling. Old letters and ruling mean nothing if they are over ruled and out dated. It's easy to get sideways of NFA.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/docs/un...-2018/download.
Especially when they can write laws as they seem fit with the stroke of a pen without any due process, that's why Trump (and I'm a huge Trump supporter) and the NRA has passed the buck onto them to rule on the bumpstocks and other things so they don't have to take the heat, they just blame the ATF and their hands are clean.
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