Evenin', gents. I've been kicking around the idea of getting into riflery, mostly planning on target shooting only, 100-300 yards. Problem is, I don't know which one to get. Here's what I've been looking for:

• Budget -- ~$500-ish for the gun
• Action -- Bolt. My state neuters AR15s, and $500 buys either a terrible AR-15 or a pretty good bolt-action.
• Caliber -- .223. I can reload it economically and Wise_A Sr already has a Mini-14
• Barrel -- I'd kinda like a heavy bbl

I'm checking out the used market, but it's a little light around here. I plan on looking until Thanksgiving/Christmas, before committing to new.

I started out looking at the Remington 700 ADL or SPS Varmint, but then I heard that the 1:12 twist might be a bit marginal. Not to mention the easiest way to get an ADL would involve spending money at Dick's/F&S (ugh).

I tried out both the Tikka T3 and CZ 527 at a local shop. Super-great, but both came with $600 price tags and sporter barrels. I think that without the heavy barrel, I'd be more inclined to just grab a Savage Axis II and re-stock it.

Lately, I'm thinking that my best bet might be to suck it up and make the 200-mile drive to the nearest Cabela's/BPS for a Savage 12FV for $420.

Are there any other rifles I should consider? If I end up ordering from Cabela's, is there anything funky going on with their firearms policy? In other words, if I show up and the chamber is littered with burrs and half the rifling is missing, am I SOL?

Thanks in advance.

Ruger makes a ranch compact rifle in 223 18" short stiff barrel that will take ar mags.That should run about $450 without tax. Ammo is fairly inexpensive,available and ar mags can be had cheap.I have the compact rifle in 7.62x39 ammo is all over, takes mini 14 mags fairly cheap. this is of course no optics and no iron sights. Use the Burris weaver zee rings which mount to the picatinny rail on the receiver. I haven't decided on what scope to use right now. Hope this helps. Once you start talking long heavy barrels prices go up. Savage may offer one of their model 10's in the FCP line in 223 and the barrels have a good rep for accuracy out of the box. Frank

Don't own one, but have heard good things about the Ruger American Predator. Another option, if the heavy barrel isn't mandatory, would be the T/C Compass. Got one in 6.5 Creedmoor and love it. Needed a $20.00 trigger job, but can be found online for under $280.

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Peace was my Profession

Have to recommend saving up a bit more for a CZ Varmint in .223........ the 527 comes standard with a single set trigger. IMO the CZs are the best value going....Mauser action and good to great walnut stocks. The 527 has a mid-size action ...... sized for the .223/5.56 (CZ will shoot both) and the 7.63x39 rounds.

Great value for the $$$s..... I've accumulated 3; two very lightly used 527s Americans and a new FS/mannlicher carbine....... all were MOA at 100yds. out of the box. I also have several CZ rimfire rifles in .22lr,.22 magnum and .17hrm.

I have a RAR in .22magnum and have been looking at one of the new ones that uses ARmags in .223/5.56 ...... while nice rifles at a reasonable price.... I view them both as Utility rifles..... also shooting off a bench with the RAR with a 10rd AR mag may present issues...... I believe there is another version that uses Ruger 5round rotary magazines.

You are on the right track with your caliber choice (223), +1 for bull barrels & single shots! Strong/simple/accurate/tanks/better suited for new shooters, simply open the action & you are safe. Look for a PM.

Ruger American Predator has the heavier barrel and detachable magazine and are usually very accurate for under $400. Remington SPS makes a heavy barrel version and I really like Rem 700s, but it has a blind magazine.

Ruger American is good. Anything on the Savage classic action is good (10, 110, 12, 112 etc.) Savage is a little more versatile if you like to tinker as you can swap bolt heads and barrels easily at home with not very expensive tools to change calibers down the road.
Do you have a local FFL that doesn't charge an arm and a leg for buying over the net and doing a transfer? If so keep your eyes peeled on some of the "usuals" that will have a deal from time to time like CDNN, Palmetto, and others.

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Straight shootin'
SWCA#2439

+1 for BAM-BAM's choice of the CZ527 with set trigger. You'll get good accuracy and in my experience the advantage of the set trigger is at least as important as a good barrel. I have one in 222 Rem that is extremely accurate. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

This one is your huckleberry. Inexpensive and accurate way, way beyond its cost. Ruger hit a home run with these.

Although it isn't a heavy barrel....I REALLY like my Savage Axis in .223, mine gets shot a lot on prairie dog towns and has tremendous accuracy.

Just a thought....got mine with a Nikon 3x9 BDC scope for $275.00 in a local pawn shop.

Randy

I had a Savage 110 Heavy Varmint (happened to be in 243) but it is available in multiple calibers. It was used on Prairie Dogs out to and past 500 yards. Accuracy was up to the job. The factory trigger is adjustable and I had mine set at 1.5 lbs. A buddy bought a 223 and had the same opinion, great rifles for low price. But, don't dismiss the cost of a scope you will probably put on it, or the fine Iron sights. You will be looking at $300 to $600 for for something decent.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

HEY Wise A, YOU ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION PERFECTLY ! ! !

MAKE THE TRIP TO CABELAS AND GET ONE OF THOSE FINE SAVAGE RIFLES. JUST CALL FIRST TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE THAT MODEL IN THE STORE......

IMHO---YOU WON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH EITHER SAVAGE OR CABELAS, AS FAR AS QC AND/OR CS. A SAVAGE WOULD BE MY FIRST CHOICE, FOR A BOLT ACTION RIFLE. I HAVE DONE BUSINESS WITH CABELAS FOR OVER 30 YRS W/O A SINGLE PROBLEM. YOU DEF WON'T BE SOL ! ! !

FINALLY, THANK YOU FOR NOT DOING BUSINESS WITH DICK'S OR F&S. WE CAN'T SUPPORT ANY ENTITY THAT DOES NOT UPHOLD THE 2ND AMENDMENT ! ! !

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

This is pretty close to what you seem to be looking for.

Rem 700spsv

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Possum—The other white meat!

Howa 1500 should do the trick.

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Release the Kraken

Another one you might consider is the Mossberg MVP Predator. I haven't looked at the prices in a while, but I think it's in the $500 range. I have one with the shorter (18.5" ?) barrel, but there is also a 24" version, both "medium bull, fluted" style. It's chambered for 5.56, so might prefer heavier bullets, but mine shoots pretty darn well with Hornady's lower-priced 55gr ammunition. Also uses AR mags, if that matters.

Take a look at the Remington Mod. 700 Tactical in .223. Heavy barrel, shoots everything I reload and feed it from 55 gr. FMJ to Sierra BTHP match bullets. Mine is very capable of consistent sub MOA groups at 100 and 200 yards.

The other suggestions are very good options as well. I know nothing about the Mossberg, magazine fed .223, bolt action but, have read good reports on this firearm.

I have a 20 " Remington 700 SPS in .223, 1 in 9 twist, which i'm very happy with. Use to be able to find them on sale for around $500. Not sure now.
But by the time you get a good scope ,, trigger,, and maybe a stock that pretty much blows the budget.

Savage has a model with Accu-stock and Accu-trigger which might get you farther ahead. But will probably be over the $500 mark.
I know several folks that have Savage's and are very happy with the way they shoot.

Howa, or CZ ( which I consider the best kept secret out there) also are good bolt guns to consider / look at.

It seems like you get a lot with Savage for your buck.
Plan a road trip and make the trip fun !
Call them before you go and make sure it's in stock....driving all that way and coming home empty handed would be a bummer.
Gary

My vote goes to the CZ 527 heavy barrel Varmit. I believe it was discontinued, but are still available. I shoot a CZ 550 morning n 6.5x55 and I’m sold on their quility.

Add another vote for the Ruger American Predator. I own one in 6.5 Creedmoor and have several shooting buddies with the same rifle and nephew that has one in .243 winchester. All shoot pretty much in the 1/2MOA area if we do our part.

As to ordering through Cabela's...if you have a problem with a "new" rifle your dealing with the manufacturer warranty (btw Ruger's customer service is top notch) You will want to double check if buying a used rifles from a gun library that you are going to have shipped to your FFL. They have in the passed always allowed a three day non firing inspection period with no hassle as far as I know that is still the policy on shipments to an FFL. In store purchases are now "as is".

those groups are on targets shoot at 200 yards from the bench with my junky excuse for sand bags.

[img]http://a4.pbase.com/o10/10/209910/1/165830886.CgU8b9Pl****GER.jpg[/img]

that is a one inch orange spot

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Bill Bates

My sole remaining rifle in that category a Savage 112V, ca. 1977, in .223. It is a heavy barrel single shot, and can't be considered as being anything other than a target or varmint rifle. I have developed loads using 50-55 grain bullets which will consistently fire 10-shot groups (not 3-shot groups which are worthless for grouping performance assessment) of 1/2" or less at 100 yards. Savage currently sells updated versions of the 112V as the 12 Varmint series, but new ones are priced somewhat beyond your budget. You might look around to see if you can find a used 112V in original condition that is priced within your budget. They are not common, as those who own them are not likely to want to sell them.

Well first thing i would do is place an ad in the want to buy section of this forum. I have had great responses. My second opinion would not be the 223. i t would be the 22-250, IMHO if you want something better yet, the 6mm Remington. An older Ruger 77V is nice for a rifle. Assuming you want to go to 300 yards on a reguler basis, the 6mm hands down. Just my .02

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Some years back the NRA rated the Howa 1500 as the most accurate bolt action rifle right out of the box with no modifications. I bought one in .223 as a factory package with 4-12X scope and rings for under $400 and it did anything I asked it to do with bullets from 55-62 grains, factory or handloaded ammo. Somehow my nephew talked me out of it (always liked the boy) and he is still taking coyotes with it.

Interesting side note: The Howa 1500 is the same rifle marketed as the Weatherby Vanguard for years, and S&W also offered it as the S&W 1500.

Excellent quality.

The caliber should fit your planned application. If it is for target shooting and/or varmint hunting out to 300 yards or so, the .223 is an excellent choice which will be completely satisfactory. Loaded ammunition is also relatively cheap when compared to other calibers, as is brass. I do not shoot bullets over 55 grains in mine due to the 1:12 rifling twist in my Savage 112V, although I have fired M855 military ammunition with 63 grain bullets giving OK, but not spectacular, results at 100 yards. If you want to use it on larger animals and/or at greater distances, something heavier would be indicated. My choice would be a .270 Winchester. I have never seen a .270 Win rifle which was not a tack driver, and light .277 bullets (90 and 110 grain) are available which make the .270 a real killer on varmints well beyond 500 yards.

With a bolt-action repeater, if you only load and shoot one round at a time, it is just as safe as a single-shot.

Any of the Savage rifles would do the trick. I have had a few down through the years all shot better than I was capable of. I can see the advantage of .223 but since you are going to reload don't overlook the Win .270 probably the most versatile round there is for North America, also the .243 might be a good choice too.

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Randy

I guess i made a caliber comment relative to your 223 selection, but I think you are looking for rifle selections also. With the exception of a 1942 Remington Sportsmaster 22, I have not really been into the rifle market lately, but i did do some looking this morning. I was kind of shocked to see the prices on long guns. Especially old Sakos and Belgium Browning safari grades which I have. I do not like synthetic stocks, or AK platform guns. I am a blued steel/walnut type of guy, but that is just me. I think if you want to reach out for real accuracy you need a barrel that is a bit on the heavier side. I presume no hunting with this rifle. I do not know what to say, other than your 500.00 budget may need to be increased a bit. I would try the want to buy section of this forum, and maybe you might get what you want. Beyond that, I see the 270 was mentioned( GREAT round), and the 243 which is the same as the 6mm Remington I mentioned. I would look for an older Remington ADL, or BDL, or something built on a Mauser action, or Sako. But I would beat the bushes first. I would stay away from say the 220 swift, and the 25-06. Although good calibers, they are prone to throat erosion. All said, I think you need to increase your budget a bit

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

If you can afford it the CZ sporter is wonderful. I love mine. IT WILL BE THE LAST 223 BOLT GUN OWNED IF I HAD TO SELL MY 223s.

I'm left handed so my market is limited. I'm not up on everything in the market.

Next I like wood stocks and blued steel. If you're going for a sporter weight I have had good luck w Ruger M77s. I don't have a Ruger 77 in 223 but it is a classic sporter at less cost than the CZ. BTW I have 5 Ruger M77 rifles. I really like the looks and the feel of the 77. Mine all shoot more than good although none are half inch rifles. Worst one shoots slightly over an inch w basic factory ammo. Just never ran into a lefty Ruger 77 in 223.

A sleeper would be a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle. You can set it up w forward mounted scout scope, traditional scope, or a red dot optic and it comes w good iron sights. I don't have one in 223 but do have 2 Ruger scout rifles in 308. They are built on M77 actions modified to detachable magazines. I really like the scout concept particularly Rugers execution of it.

If you're going synthetic in a sporter on a budget I prefer the Ruger American over the Savage Axis. I like the Ruger stock better. It feels better and looks a whole lot better. While I'm more about function than looks when it comes to rifles, I pick pretty that shoots over ugly that shoots. The wrist on the Axis looks hideous to me. If more budget I'd consider a Savage M10 over the American. I have never owned a Savage rifle that wouldnt shoot in their M10 / M110 series rifles. If less budget consider Mossberg. Mossberg makes a 223 bolt gun that takes AR15 magazines if that trips your trigger. I haven't shot a Mossberg bc they don't make a lefty. I have heard good things about them.

If you're going heavy barrel Savage M10 strongly recommended. My number 1 prairie dog rifle. They may be calling it a 12 now but I'm starting to get old and a short action Savage is a 10 and a long action a M110.

I played w some Tikka rifles when they first got imported. Can't remember what I didn't like about them but there was something.

Rem M7 sporter - if you can find an old one they are nice a sporter at a good price. Have a good gunsmith safety check the trigger. While they are right hand only I have shot them. They are carbine sized so a plus over the Ruger 77 sporter although I prefer the looks and action of a Ruger 77 over a Remington.

I have 223 bolt guns as follows so I have some basis for my opinions:

CZ Sporter w double set trigger (my favorite)

Savage M10 sporter in a laminated stock - very heavy for a sporter. This was a package for Cabelas. Never seen them other than at Cabelas and limited run years ago.

Ruger American that I bought for a light weight rifle but then found the CZ. The Ruger American is going to my son as soon as he is ready for a 223 sporter. The Savage M10 Cabelas package 223 sporter is too heavy for him any time soon. I had just started playing w the Ruger American when I bought the CZ. It was coming along nicely until I dumped it for my gorgeous CZ. I like it a lot but love the CZ. The set trigger on my CZ is the closest thing to sex that I have ever found on a rifle. The action is slick too. If you do buy an American do yourself a favor. Before you shoot it clean the action well then apply grease to bolt lugs. Sit down and watch a football game and work the bolt up and down until you get tired of it. It is a 3 lug fat bolt design. Mine started out stiff but smoothed up considerably. A 3 lug design is usually a little harder to work than a 2 lug design bolt. Less bolt lift so harder to cam initially. Also lube the bolt body. Once i did that bolt ran smoothly. While I have limited experience w 3 lug bolts I think that is true across the board so not a criticism of the Ruger American.

Savage heavy barrel it needs wheels but it shoots

Remington M700 heavy barrel. Older rifle when Remington products were better IMHO. It has a 20 inch barrel so not as heavy as the Savage heavy barrel.

Finally unless you're going varmint critter shooting I would buy a sporter weight 223 over a heavy barrel. Heavy barrel only advantage is heats up slower. A heavy barrel doesnt necessarily shoot better than a sporter if you arent running it fast. They are also darn heavy to lug around. If I'm going to lug a heavy rifle it's going to be a 308. Keep in mind that my opinion is based in part on the fact that when I go stumping around in the woods when it isn't hunting season I carry a 223 rather than a 22LR. While I also love my 22LR CZ sporter I carry my 223 CZ when I'm bumming around in the woods. I handload so 223 doesn't cost much more than 22 and reaches further and hits harder.

I hope post helps.

And exactly how is someone else going to know how many rounds you loaded, or if you fired one or not?
With the bolt closed, or even open (at a quick glance) Someone may or may not have left a round in there. Safeties may or may not have been engaged. With a single shot (like double bbl shotguns) once the action is opened there is NO WAY that gun can fire, AND a live round left in the chamber is easily seen from most angles. I completely understand if you do not like single shots, (some folks can't make the first shot count) and you have my sympathy.

My suggestion is to spend time at guns shows and you may be surprised at the bargains you can find. Gently used rifles are all over the racks and sellers often don't realize what they have!

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Regards
Paul

Buy a CZ with a 20" to 26" barrel bolt action in .223.

You won't regret it. Good resale value also.

They make a shorter rifle with an 18"'or so barrel in .223 and 7.62X39, but they are kind of butt-heavy.

In your price range, my vote would be for a Savage. Great guns for the price and I haven't seen a savage yet that wasn't a shooter.

Not sure what you are getting at.
If you are saying I am one of those people who can't make the first shot count, you are barking up the wrong tree.
My preferred guns for hunting and most general shooting are flintlock smoothbores and flintlock rifles.
I have not even owned a centerfire bolt rifle for at least 15 years.
I DO have several CZ bolt rimfires, which I shoot occaisionally, using them as repeaters and single-shot both, depending on the mood I'm in.
I personally prefer single-shots for general use, in shotgun and rifle.
I have several repeating shotguns and rifles, but the single-shots are what I use 90% of the time when shooting cartridge guns.

I was at Walmart yesterday looking at the rifles and the sales clerk handed me a Weatherby Vanguard in .243. He said they were on clearance and showed me the price tag...…$269. MSRP is $600.

I have a Savage model 10, a good step up from an Axis under $500
Very solid out of the box accuracy, much better stock than the Axis.

Check the want to sell ads. What you want might be there in the first few postings in 223

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Wow, thanks guys! A lot to look over. Here's some fun stuff:

Irritating. I can see why, especially if they're trying to re-brand BPS as the Fishing Store, and Cabela's as the Hunting/Shooting Store.

It almost doubles the trip length, but the Vee-Dub sips gas on the highway. The really painful part is that I have to drive right past Springfield MA, and the factory no longer does tours.

So! Guns!

Ruger American Predator w/ AR-pattern Magazines

Alas, I really think I'm committed to the heavy barrel. Functionality aside...well, I just sorta like 'em. I'm also not crazy about the limited re-stocking options.

It's an excellent rifle, though, and something I'd think about in the future. Kinda hard to get a detachable magazine with a usable capacity without going to aftermarket bottom metal.

Howa 1500, T/C Compass, Weatherby Vanguard

These were actually the first rifles I looked at. Unfortunately, same deal as the 527--pricey, sporter barrels, and so on.

Savage 110 Varmint

I looked at this baby, as well. Local prices are around $650. For the extra $250, you get a jeweled bolt for eye candy, a DBM, and Savage's Accustock. The Accustock has a full-length aluminum block and adjustable LoP and cheek rest.

Yes, there's way more than $250 worth of stuff there, especially with the slightly limited selection of stocks for the Savage action.

I'll probably have to think on it, and do some arm-twisting at my favorite LGS.

Gun Shows

They don't make them 'round here. Well, there's one. It happens once a year, and the city council (city owns the venue) doesn't let them have guns, or ammo for "assault weapons".

Lots of people still show up to sprinkle salt on the anti-gunners, even if there's nothing to look at or buy.

Weight and Caliber

This gun is probably going to live on a bench, so hauling it around won't be a big thing. I might try out hunting woodchuck, but that's a big maybe and if I got serious about it, I'd probably use it as an excuse to buy another rifle.

As for .223--yeah, I'm set on it. I can reload it within my budget, and it does all the things I need a rifle to do.

Thanks guys!

CZ makes a heavy barrel varmint 527 w/ a single set trigger...... buy once and be happy.

$200 spread over the next 20-30 years......is about $7-10 or two Starbucks coffees a year. (SKU 03072)

Savage- Great shooters for the money.

CZ- a little more money for a MUCH nicer gun.

If it were me I would be looking for a Smith and Wesson Mod 1500 Deluxe
bull barrel .223 They are still out there.

The quality of the stock and the finish compared to the rest, S&W has them beat.

They are like fine wine and this 82 83 vintage can't be beat.

IF the big grin & winkie icons didn't occur to you, I was just messing with you.