Anybody ever seen one?

There is a commercial one (model 1921?) for sale by a local guy, and I'm interested in it. I've always wanted a Luger, but I'm not sure what this one might be worth. First one I've seen with a nickel finish. Gunbroker has a few completed auctions for blued versions, but none that are nickel. Is that because it is an aftermarket finish? Or did DWM actually sell them that way?

So what do the resident experts say about the ballpark value of an all numbers matching 9mm Luger with a nickel finish?

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I can't give a value, but this was almost certainly a job by a local gunsmith in the USA. I've seen a few.

Pawn shops sometimes got them in when I was a kid. I think some veterans wanted them finished in nickel, then pawned or sold them. They have no collector value, of course.

I wouldn't buy one. If I wanted a rust-resistant Luger, I'd find a US-made Mitchell version. These are stainless.

Nice looking Luger. I have a couple of WWII Lugers but I'm by no means
an expert on Lugers. After looking at your pics I'd vote for the nickel
being aftermarket.

Hi,

DWM never used any finish except rust blue, with strawed small parts. You might find a tool room prototype "in the white" (maybe), but nothing with nickel plating.
Too bad this finish was done to a matching numbers post war P08. The collector value is gone. Price and value would be the same if it was a non-matching shooter.

Have you consulted on the Luger forum?

Jim

It was a Weimar era new manufacture Police model as evidenced by the sear safety(thin spring steel bar riveted to upper). All that is left that appears to be original are the grips and magazine. It's a shooter now and commands a shooter price. Matching or not, because of the refinish I wouldn't pay any more than 5-6 hundred.

I came across a nickel Luger in Iraq. When I got back to Germany, I asked Walter Brucke, the local tailor, who was in 22nd Luftlande Division and invaded Poland in 1939, what the heck a Luger (and so many other German weapons) was doing in in Iraq. Walters educated guess was that the allies gave that stuff over to Iraq as foreign aid over the years. His guess on the nickel finish was done in Europe.

Now, too your question about your nickel Luger. Lots of vet bring back guns were nickeled, most likely in Europe. Guys wanted to jazz up their trophy, and there was a cottage industry of platers in France and Belgium.

Every now and then you'll see GI 1911's nickeled as well as small autos of the era.

Nickel comes off easy enough if you want it blued. $700.00 is the max I would pay for it. Another thing to consider, the Luger having tight tolerances, that plating may make it a jam-o-matic due to the tighter tolerances.

I'd pass. Do you have another 9mm? Buy ammo instead and go shoot.

ITS ACTUALLY A SHAME THAT SOMEONE HAD THIS NUMBERS MATCHING LUGER REFINISHED IN NICKEL......

I WOULD PASS ON THIS ONE, EVEN IF YOU ARE JUST LOOKING FOR A SHOOTER. IT JUST SCREAMS JUNK, FROM VERY FAR AWAY......

IMHO, TO RESTORE IT TO ITS ORIGINAL APPEARANCE, WOULD BE THROWING GOOD MONEY AFTER BAD. YOU WILL PROBABLY END UP HAVING MORE INTO THE GUN, THAN YOU COULD EVER SELL IT FOR......

__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

What is the asking price, and has the owner shot it (or will he let you test fire it)?

It should be at a strictly shooter price, but if you will strictly shoot it and it functions well I'd think about buying it.

Hindsight in gun collecting (as with most things in life) is 20/20, and I'm fairly certain the GI who had the nickel finish done wasn't terribly concerned about what we would think about his decision 70 years later.

__________________
Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Unfortunate so many of these war trophies such as this were nickeled or in the case of 98ks altered to hunting rifles but way back in the 50s or 60s who knew they could be big collector items.

I would pass on any nickled luger period! A good original inexpensive shooter are plentiful if you search long enough. I found a 1925 DWM, all matching numbers with worn original finish for $600. It is 30 luger caliber and shoots just fine.

When I was a high school kid, a near do well uncle hocked his handguns to me on a semi regular basis. One worth noting was a Colts SAAin .38-40. Another worth remembering was a Stoger Luger with an American eagle on the receiver where the factory markings were usually found. The gun was 7.65 and nickel. I have no idea that it was factory or aftermarket.

Rather than charge my uncle interest, I generally shot up the ammo that cam e with the deal. He would get back on his feet and reclaim his gun.

Jack

Back in my much younger days there was a plating shop in my town that did a pretty good trade in nickel plating GI bringback Lugers, P-38s and M1911s. For some reason, many at that time thought that was an improvement. So far as I know, there were never any original factory-plated Lugers or P-38s with the possible exception of a few presentation/display pieces, etc.

I have seen a lot of nickel plated WW2 bring homes. Lugers, P38
and even a FN Browning A5 shotgun. I always herd it was done
in Le Harve, France.

I agree with the above. Rust blued and strawed small parts. Pass on it.

Not orig finish as already noted. You can see the work of the buffing wheel very plainly.

What is there however is a very desirable Weimar era Luger.
It's a 1921 DWM Weimar Police. It appears to be a matching piece but of course we can't see all the small parts to be sure, or even the bbl# for that matter.
These are interesting pistols as they were made throughout the 1920's,,not just in the yr 1921.
The Treaty did not allow for that continued production, so DWM just stamped them all '1921'.
They are 100mm bbl length and in 9mmcal, something heavily controlled by the Treaty following WW1 and not allowed to be produced in large numbers,,but they were.

The pistol also had in addition to the sear safety you can see on the top left side of the pistol over the side plate,,,
it was originally fitted with a Magazine Safety.

The Mag Safe goes back to the mid 30's actually and was never popular.
I think the mag safety was a Walther patented ad-on mechanism.

Never very popular,,Most pistols fitted with them ended up having the small U shaped spring extra part simply removed and tossed by an owner or armorer.
That leaves the pistol with a couple tell-tale marks from the original mag safe installation.
On the outside, the left grip,,it's extreme upper left corner is cut away just a small amt to allow the mag safety spring to clear it and it's way into the mag well.
This pistol has that feature.
On the inside, taking the side plate off, you will find a small dia hole blind drilled into the frame just above and behind the trigger. Just under a 1/4"dia it is for the other leg of that flat spring.

Insert the magazine and it pushes the spring out of position and allows the trigger to be pulled. Remove the magazine and the spring moves back and blocks the trigger again.

The magazine is probably not the correct one judging from the mag base. But it could be anything from a decent WW2 standard issue to something like one of the so called one piece Haenel/Schmeisser magazines.
I got luck and recv'd one of those in a $200 shooter Luger one time.

The after market nickel plate looks weak and is flaking.
If the bore is nice and the rest of the numbers match,,I'd think the gun deserves a restoration. Yes it's a lot of work. Polishing, recutting markings, rust blue ect. But I think the gun would be worth it. I just see these older ones in that light. Try to save 'em all.

As a shooter as it sits,,w/a good bore and mechanics,,I think $400 would be a fair price.
$500 tops if you really, really couldn't live w/o a shiny Luger.

The grips alone are probably worth $150,,but that mag safety cut on the left panel would probably be looked at as damage to the grip panel instead of what it actually is,,so there you go again fighting with the tire kickers.

Thanks for the good info and feedback guys.

Obviously I'm looking at this one only as a shooter at this point. But that is OK, shooters are what I usually go for anyway.

I've always loved the look and unique design of the Luger and have wanted one forever. The nickel doesn't really appeal to me, but it isn't a deal breaker either. The fact that it is 9mm, a caliber I already shoot & reload for is a big plus.

If I can get it for $400-ish, I'll probably buy it, otherwise I'll pass.

FWIW, I haven't seen ANY kind of Luger for less than a grand at any of the shows or shops I frequent. Ever.

Yeah I saw that one FS locally as well.

It definitely stood out among all the homebuilt ARs, Glawks, and pump shotguns we typically see here.

I would get a mismatched (but original) shooter vs. a nickeled gun any day.

__________________
Psalm 27:2

Just don't let the owner tell you that it belonged to Hermann Goering or some such...

John

__________________
- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Saw it today on the Trader...what a shame. I've owned one that was all numbers matching and decent original finish, all straw in place. Some clown had defaced whatever was on top of the receiver with what appeared to be a tiny ball peen hammer. I had always heard that nothing points as naturally as a P-08. Took it to the range, sent a silhouette target down to 15yds, locked and loaded, brought it up and fired once to the head, two in the center of the chest. Brought the target back in and there was a bullet right between the eyes and two dead center in the chest. Neat pistols, extremely close tolerances and terrific build quality...its a shame to see them ruined like that one, it must have been trashed before-hand. I had someone willing to do a clean-up of the defaced receiver on mine, a process called "spray welding", it would have required a refinish of the rest of the receiver, I opted to trade it out and was satisfied with the trade.

A fellow in my town asked me to look at a couple of firearms that he had bought from a WWII veteran. One was a Winchester M1 Garand and the other was an S/42 Luger that had been nickeled.

I told he the approximate value of the M1 and he was shocked because he only gave $300.00 for that rifle but, paid $700 for the Luger. I told him that he did fine but, the values were reversed.

The Luger had all matching numbers, including the primary and spare magazine, that were correctly marked. He insisted that the Luger was a presentation piece and was sure that it belonged to a high ranking officer or party member. I just shook my head and told him that Lugers were not produced with a nickel finish. He thought I was trying to cheat him and was going to make a "low ball" offer to purchase it from him.

I reminded him that he had called me to inspect the weapons and I never mentioned that I had an interest in purchasing them. Just like Ron White used to say, "you can't fix stupid."

I've seen a few nickle Lugers in my day. There were some as far as I know!

IF IT FLOATS YOUR BOAT, AND YOU CAN BUY IT FOR A VERY LOW PRICE, KNOCK YOURSELF OUT ! ! !

JUST SHOOT IT AS IS, AND TRY NOT TO INVEST ANY MORE MONEY INTO IT. GOOD LUCK......

__________________
'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

About 1999 I a bought chromed 1942 or 1943 all numbers matching army Luger for $400. Since my brother in law's and mine were chromed I am predisposed to suspect this one also has bumper chrome rather than nickel but I can not tell which it is from the pictures. From the 1950s into the 1970s army surplus was inexpensive and most small cities had an auto body shop with chrome plating tanks. Consequently, a lot of military guns that would other wise be valuable now got plated along with the car bumpers.

Its chrome plating gave mine two serious faults. It was a "jam-o-matic" but what convinced me it had to go was I could not hit crows in my orchard with the sun reflecting off its tiny bright silver sights. At their best Lugers are ammo sensitive and their tiny V rear and inverted V front sights are a lousy design. I wanted to like mine enough to forgive its jamming but I will not own a gun that I can not shoot accurately. You've been warned.

On the other hand, when it comes time to part with it you'll be able to tell great shiny Luger stories. I've already posted the one I told when I traded mine for a Savage 1899. It turned out the man who got it was one of the greatest dangerous game hunters of all time and he shot them all with the .25-35 Savage that's now mine. You gotta love gun show stories.

Oh, but "Herr Meyer" loved shiny guns...

__________________
Certified Curmudgeon

Last week I saw a nickel plated P38 at a gun shop. It was $800!!! Would not buy such a piece.

I had a WWII vet show me his Nickel plated Luger about 10 years ago, it was a numbers matching commercial model he brought back. He said there was a lot of trading going on in Europe, he was certain it was nickle plated when he got it, the fellow that collected it claimed it came from a "German Officer" he also had a small caplock single shot pistol that was nicely made. I was interested in buying it so I inquired at that and all the experts on Lugers advised that they were never nickel plated from the factory.

Yeah, I always buy the gun and won't pay extra for the story.

Absolutely. I'm not one to sink money into a sow's ear. If I buy it it will be strictly to have it as a shooter.

I'm hoping it is nickeled not chromed. If it is chromed that would reduce the amount I'd be willing to pay for it by about another 100 bucks - if I would even buy it at all. I already have a bumper-chromed 1917 Commercial, so I think I should be able to tell which it is when I see it in person. We'll see, I guess.

That is why they say "buy the gun not the story" Kurac I have always heard.

On the other hand, if those millions of surplus weapons had not been modified, the comparatively small number of untouched examples today would not be nearly as uncommon and they now are, and would not be worth nearly as much as they are today.

Sporterizing or otherwise civilianizing surplus military weapons, along with wearing military weapons out in military service, is a necessary part of the process for rifles or pistols made in the millions to become rare and collectible.

It won't be a commerical luger at that point in time due to treaty limitations on small arms production. Plus it
has a military serial number.

It would instead be a military or police pistol or a military or police re-work.

If you can get better pictures of all of the proof marks, as well as the serial and any letter pre-fix on the front of the frame, and verify the following:

- Stock lug
- receiver marked GESICHERT (German for "secured") visible when the safety lever is down in the "safe" position.
-late type extractor marked GELADEN (German for "loaded") on the left side.
- serial number and suffix in the no prefix, a or b prefix range.

I can then tell you what it probably is.

These tend to be uncommon pistols and in excellent condition they'll sell for around $1750 to a but north of $2000.

A good restoration would again bring about half that amount.

In it's current condition it'll bring $400-$500 as a shooter. Collector value aside they are cool looking pistols and in even in this condition they'll still retain that value at a minimum.

And if I could get it at $400 or so, I'd certainly consider having it restored, at least in terms of the blue and the strawed small parts.

Thanks for the additional info and your perspective. Sounds like you are a bit of an aficionado/collector of Lugers and/or militaria in general?

You estimate that after a restoration it's resale value would be about half of its excellent original condition value of $1750-$2000, correct? Supposing I got it for $400 that would mean I would need to get the restoration work done for $475-$600 in order to just break even. To me it seems very unlikely that I would be able to get the work done for that amount of money. Even if I did, I would then have a gun that I would be extremely protective of in order to avoid devaluing that investment.

If that is all correct, that would make it a total non-starter for me. I would only consider putting money into a gun if it will result in a positive ROI. Otherwise they stay shooters that I can use and enjoy without worrying about reducing value. I do not own or desire to own any safe queens unless I can get them for significantly less than their value. Even then I've only ever held them for a few years to let them appreciate to sell for a decent profit. Having one just to have it isn't in my nature.

I'll be going to look at this one in person later today and I'll report back afterwards for anyone who is interested.

Well, call me a sucker, but I went ahead and bought it. Paid $400 OTD - and the seller picked up the $25 BGC/transfer fee. It is an all numbers matching specimen as far as I can tell - frame, barrel, receiver, extractor, safety bar are all matching numbered. Under the frame serial number in front of the trigger guard is what appears to be the lower-case letter "b" in cursive (see photo below).

The whole gun is nickel plated (not chromed) and seems to have been pretty well done, just done a long time ago. It has seen some significant wear since then, resulting in the nickle wearing through and peeling a little on some of the high spots, like the muzzle, the raised ridge outline on the sides of the rear portion of the receiver, and on the aluminum base of the magazine. Interestingly enough the base is also stamped with a 4-digit (serial?) number (see photo below). What does that make it? Military issue? Contemporary with the gun?

It has the GESICHERT marking under the safety lever when in the safe position (photo attached). and the right side of the receiver has 3 stamped or rolled markings (also photo attached). It also has the GELADEN marking on the left side of the extractor (last photo).

So I think I covered all of the areas BB57 asked about - except the one about the "stock lug". I'm not exactly sure what that is referring to, unless it is the cut at the bottom of the backstrap where a stock can be attached. What kind of photos of that are needed? Without that, is there enough info posted here to fully identify it?

I haven't shot it yet, but I put some rounds in it and manually cycled it and all 8 fed and ejected beautifully. The action toggles smoothly, the magazine spring is really stiff, and the bore is mirror bright and sharp, so I'm thinking maybe this one hasn't been shot all that much. The seller's wife inherited it from her grandfather about 10 years ago, and supposedly her grandfather had purchased it a LONG time ago. How much he shot it is unknown.

So, odd as it may sound to some people, I now have one more of my grail guns. I know most people think of grail guns in terms of pristine examples, but that isn't a key point for me. I've wanted a Luger as long as I can remember but never found one that was in the range of what I considered affordable enough to buy. So now I have one.

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Hey, I'm glad your happy with it. They are truly neat pistols, the one I had did not do well with anything but fairly hot ammunition. I had been told that German military 9mm was on the hot side at or above 1000fps. The heavy recoil spring takes the brunt of the recoil, they don't jump in your hand. There were some powders that did not work well leaving unburnt residue, you want a fairly clean powder. Good luck and I hope yours shoots as well as mine did, pretty remarkable in the pointability aspect. People have written about how well the SAA Colt points, that might work if you have a small hand, the P-08 grip fits my hand better than a standard 1911.

I thing you did real well for $400 OTD considering what Lugers are going
for these days. I have two WWII guns that are original although not
matching. I would buy the one you just bought for $400 in a heartbeat
for a shooter. Both of mine are shooter grade but there's room for another
one in my safe. If I were you I would keep it as is and enjoy it and
not sink big bucks in to try to make it something it's not. I've been
reading your post and didn't think you'd be able to snag it for $400.
Good catch!

For $400 OTD, I think you did very well.

$400 for a nice shooter Luger is a good deal, I would have jumped on it, probably would have paid even more for it. At least you won't have any guilt if you decide to shoot the snot out of it.

Good for you!!

Thanks guys. My thinking is/was pretty much as you all have stated. Getting one I could shoot to my heart's content for $400 seemed like a reasonable (if not a downright good) deal to me. It may not be real pretty, but it isn't real ugly either. Now to see how it actually shoots.

Never wanted a Luger, but I'd pay $400 on the spot for that one without even thinking about it. If nothing else you can always get your money out of it plus some, or trade up for something you want more.

Hola.
Me gustaria comentar que el nombre correcto de la pistola es Parabellum ,que en latin significa para guerra,su creador se llamaba Georg Luger,un señor llamado Hans Tauscher fue el importador de estas armas a Estados Unidos y este señor las empezo a llamar Luger en honor a su creador,es por eso que en Estados Unidos se las llama Luger y en Europa se las llama Parabellum,que es el nombre que les puso la DWM.

Hello.
I would like to comment that the correct name of the pistol is Parabellum, which in Latin means for war, its creator was called Georg Luger, a man named Hans Tauscher was the importer of these weapons to the United States and this gentleman started calling them Luger in honor of Its creator, that is why in the United States they are called Luger and in Europe they are called Parabellum, which is the name that (was given to them by DWM.

Gracias.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

Calling BB57 to read and comment on the info in post # 32

For $400, I think it was a great buy. Congratulations on your purchase!

I feel differently about the chrome/nickel plated WWII guns. I grew up listening to my Dad and his friends talking about them. They are indicative of the period and I can imagine a young soldier showing off his Luger or P38 to his buddies and swapping stories.

There is a part of me that is bothered when I hear folks call guns like this "ruined". I would rather have a Luger that I could shoot, than a perfect safe queen. What do I know? I like beat up revolvers too.

Part of the reason they are such collector items today is that so many were removed from the collector market over the years. Scarcity is a bid price driver.

__________________
I need ammo, not a ride.

Exactly how I feel too. Give me two (or more) shooters over a safe queen any day. I've sold the only safe queens I had and used the money to buy multiple shooters.

$400 OTD is a great price, even for a "shooter". I'm not much of a collector and every firearm in my safe gets shot, so I see the value of firearms like this in terms of their representation of the type and the period of history involved. I'd much rather shoot a piece of history rather than just look at it.

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Your pistol is a 1914 pattern P.08 Luger. The proof marks have been polished a bit but there are clearly two Weimar era acceptance marks - one for the receiver and a second identical mark for the pistol as a whole. The third mark is a test fire proof mark, and these usually had either "Ar A4" or "WaA4" under the mark.

The pistol also has a 1921 date, and a "b" prefix military serial number. No prefix, an "a" prefix, a "b" prefix or a commercial serial in the 83900 to 89600 range are all correct for a 1920 and 1921 military and police pistols.

The pistol however does not have a Reichswehr property mark on the chamber so it is not a "Military and Police Dated, Army" but rather a "Military and Police Dated, Police" Luger.

The "Military and Police Dated, Army" pistols will bring around $2000 in excellent condition as they are a little less common than the "Military and Police Dated, Police" Lugers which bring around $1500 in excellent condition. They sell for around $400 in "poor" condition. A good restoration would probably sell for around $800.

Your pistol should have a magazine with a wrap around tin plated magazine with a wooden base. The magazine with your pistol appears to be a later 1936-42 Mauser era magazine also a wrap around tin magazine, but with an aluminum base.

In terms of shooting a P.08 Luger, the toggle link action of the P.08 has an undeserved reputation in some circles as being a "weak" design. It isn't, but it does need to have the springs replaced when they get old or wear out.

Consequently, I recommend you put new springs in it since it's been around nearly 100 years and may have never gotten a fresh set of springs.

Then once you have replaced the springs, test fire it with strips of masking tape on the shoulders of the frame where the toggle knobs come to rest. If the tape is being cut by the toggles the load is too strong for the pistol and springs. If the pistol doesn't cycle reliably the load is too weak for the pistol and springs.

The P.08 was not designed for 9mm+P ammo and +P ammo should never be used. However, most standard pressure loads in the 115-124 gr weight range should function well in it, and it's easy to verify that the load is not beating your pistol to death with the masking tape test. With a good load in the 112-124 gr range P.08s will run like well oiled sewing machines and are a real pleasure to shoot.

I also recommend not using the original magazine, especially the original spring. There are good aftermarket magazines available for shooting, and a correct, functioning magazine adds to the value of the pistol. I'd use your Mauser era magazine as trade for a Weimar or WWI era wood base magazine.

-----

This is my 1914 pattern, 1918 dated DWM made P.08 Luger. It's a DWM made 1914 military pistol, which is about as common as it gets and they sell for around $1000 in excellent condition, although the holster that came with it was work about $300 all by itself.

On this side you can see the later style DWM "USS" acceptance mark followed by the Imperial Army proof mark.

Thanks for the updated info BB57.
Sounds like the consensus is that I did just fine at $400. That's great to know. Value for my money is a primary consideration for my firearms purchases, though in this case nostalgic emotion & general desire were also significant factors in the purchase.

I remember seeing and drooling over the Stoeger 22LR Lugers advertised in Popular Mechanics when I was a kid. I bought one of those a couple of years ago out of nostalgia. Finding an affordable REAL Luger that I can shoot and enjoy is the ultimate fulfillment of my childhood lust after one of these ultra-cool pistols.

I have seen several nickel plated 1911 A1 .45s that were done after world war Two. Remember that there were a lot of guns brought back after the war and they were inexpensive and plentiful in the post war years. I guess it was a desire to "make it look special" that prompted gun guys to mess with these guns.

A lot of .45s were accurized by gunsmiths. Rear sights off of S & Ws were mounted on old military pistols. Trigger jobs, barrel upgrades. There was an entire cottage industry created by shooters interested in making a weapon of war into an accurate target pistol. Today Ed Brown, Les Baer and Wilson make .45s
in-house which are customs. But back in the day, a used .45 sold for $125 and you could order all kinds of upgrades.

Just part of the times and the fun of handgunning. I enjoy reading some of the handgunning books which were written by Jeff Cooper and Keith. It was a great time, not like today with all the anti gun bias.

Op,

Before you load up and hit the range, please check the toggle axle which is the round part you see when the toggle is up. The Luger was always a hand fitted weapon, and the s/n stamps didn't get put on till the assembler was totally satisfied with precision fit and function.

Back when I was into Lugers the toggle axle was the most frequent part replaced, because of wear on the original, and every attempt known to man to "restamp" or "renumber" the left side of the toggle axle was obvious as to different fonts, different size, or sometimes missing but always with some story.

You got a shooter at a very attractive price, but if the toggle can't "toggle" smoothly it may well be worse than a jam-o-matic if it hangs up short of battery.

I only caution because of the after factory nickel plating and you thought that all parts were plated, so check it out that 1) the axle is stamped with last 2 digits of the s/n, 2) the font appears to be same height and in line with the side plate font and line-up, and 3) it functions smooth and even through full stroke.

If all good to go...........enjoy that $400 buck shooter....they are a natural pointer for me at least and a treat to shoot, especially if you have a 1911A1 to shoot along with it.

__________________
Charlie B
SWCA#3083, SWHF#570

Commissioned officers bought their own guns, so they had commercial guns. Any story of vet bring back-guns taken from Wehrmacht officers that have WaA markings are questionable.