Today’s modern polymer pocket autos are really reliable and back a heck of a payload.

The only polymer pistol I own is a Beretta Px4 subcompact in .40 S&W. 10 rounds of full power .40 in a package similar in dimensions as my 649 .357 magnum. Twice the ammo with a bigger bore.

I pocket carried it all day yesterday in an environment where it must never be detected. No problems.

I’ll never sell my 649; but this little powerhouse is something.

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Take this for what it is...my opinions.

I'm a younger guy who by the time I was old enough to own a handgun, polymer semi autos were everywhere. I happen to own a few myself.

Now, with micro semi auto pistols, there's a cost. Small revolvers have a learning curve, anyone who has spent time with one knows this. I'd say that small, lightweight semi auto pistols have an even higher learning curve...and that is even more so with hard kicking rounds like the .40.

Micro semi's are no joke...I have spent quite a bit of time with them. Funny enough, all I've ever shot in a micro is 9mm, I cannot imagine how hard a small .40 would buck.

Long story short...having never been in a life or death situation, I'd feel much safer with a micro revolver vs a semi auto.

Now...larger size? Even a size like my XD "sub compact"? I'd much rather have that than a revolver. I can easily control that firearm and I've found it to be very reliable and accurate.

You wear suspenders?

I don't think I'd want to pocket carry 32++ ounces for 10 rounds, but if I did it would be an M&P340 in each pocket.

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Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy

Love revolvers but have not carried one since the 1970s... Since I started carrying a 1911 in the mid-1970s and a Commander daily since 1980 except while hiking/hunting rarely carry a revolver..

As to snubbies, I find that they don't hide near as well for me as a small semi...and 90% of the time if I can hide a snubbie I can hide a Commander. When I can't hide a Commander then I go to a Kahr P380 in a pocket...lays much flatter than a revolver...

Bob

I often carry with 10 rounds at the ready. I just do it with an LCR in the pocket and an LCRx crossdraw.

I'll take a revolver most days over a semi for carry.

And that’s why, including price, they sell a Gazillion of them every year.

Am sure they do sell a ton of the polymer. Usually all I see at my club.

I will stick with my wheelguns.

Now that you mention it...I am wrong with what I said earlier...

Chewing on it, 380 is the first round I shot through a micro, and while it has a steep learning curve. Having a long trigger pull and 6oz weight that Kel Tec P32 was very difficult to properly control. It was my dad's carry pistol at the time. I remember thinking that it was basically a belly gun...but then being a semi auto, that's not the best idea. Long story short, I didn't like the thing in the slightest.

He later got a 9mm Kel Tec PF9 and I found that pistol to be VERY uncomfortable to shoot. I'm not sure what he had it loaded with , but I clearly remember the skinny thing making my palm hurt big time.

I've shot my friends since that time but I'll say that I've never liked any of them. Where I can shoot them well enough to cycle the properly, they're just too stinking small for my meaty mitts and I always feel slightly out of control with the little things...like holding on to a ticked off kitten or something.

I know this is just me...but I've never been a fan of them.

Here’s my P365 alongside the G43 and Shield. But I carry mine with a Kimber K6s 357 Magnum (6 shots).






Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Is it stronger when you say polymer instead of plastic?

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S&W Accumulator

No semi auto beats the reliability of a good old wheel gun.

I mean have you ever heard of a revolver instructor stressing that you need to do better on you malfunction drills? Semi auto guys are taught this from the start

Both revolvers can be drawn simultaneously or seperatly from this NY Reload holsterIt carries very well on either side

A REAL belt is all we need, not those skinny laminated things sold in the department stores

This Beretta subcompact is the smallest pistol that still shoots like a full size yet carries like a micro.

It’s 26 oz. unloaded, so it’s not a super light, sharp kicking micro .40. It also is not a brick like my steel or alloy pistols. And its overall length is shorter than a baby glock.

I honestly cannot find a more balanced pistol that carries like a micro yet handles like a full size. And it accepts the full size magazines.

Polymer sounds WAY cooler.

I feel wrong calling some of my guns "plastic"...so dirty...like I need to wash my mouth out, or repent, or something to atone.

I am not a big guy and wear shorts and t shirts when it is hot out (9 months of the year)so a little kel tec is all I can get away with concealed but I generally have more fire power handy. Practice and it beats nothing. Have a large sized friend who pocket carries a 629 Snubby easily,I can't even get a 60 in my pockets!

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

Oh...ok, 26 oz with a.40 seems far more reasonable. I was thinking it was a typical micro in the <14oz range. Like I said above,that 9mm PF9 at just under 13oz is really not fun to shoot, at least I don't think so. I can't imagine how hard a .40 would bite in a pistol that light (if there is one out there).

It is what it is...........

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S&W Accumulator

And if it works for you who cares what others think?

+1, Evenly distributed so you don't walk in circles.

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Certified Curmudgeon

My Sig P938 is NOT polymer. But I carry it more than my 642.

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I've still got it made.

I've yet to comfortably shoot a single stack mini-pistol (is that what they're called?), err I meant sub-compact (well, Springfield calls their double stack a subcompact, so this really confuses me.) Anyway I just haven't found one I enjoy shooting. One thing the J frame has over the subs is that because they've been around a long time there are literally thousands of grips out there for it. Find the right grip and it makes it a joy to shoot.

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Ephesians 6 (Armor of God)

There will never likely be a J-frame killer since there are things a small revolver can do that no other gun can.

Still a fan of small revolvers, but this little BG has been my near constant companion for nearly 4 years, simply because of its size

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John

My LCP is significantly easier to carry than a J Frame. Especially for pocket carry.

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Just hanging with my dogs

But, but it’s a tree atey

What would you have in mind?

This Subcompact Beretta has a slightly protruding guide rod and recessed crown and barrel design so the muzzle can be pressed against the target without the slide going out of battery. Also, there are video demos showing that firing an auto from a jacket pocket will not jam it up.

I’ve managed to kill a pistol, but I’ve never killed a J-Frame.

For 'plastic', I'll take my Shield.

My Kel Tec P11 won't win prizes in many categories, but it works great as a small, light carry and with regular ammo it shoots just fine, up close that is. The patterns spread way apart past 7 yards and it takes a lot of practice to be that good with it.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Fire any type or configuration of the proper (or parent) caliber without regard to propellant charge.

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Certified Curmudgeon

Hi typetwelve,

What are you considering a micro 9MM. A Springfield Armory Enhanced Micro Pistol -EMP 3- ain't a micro pistol.

I wish I could buy an S&W 1911 3" 9MM, but CA politicians will not allow its sale.

I don't see any signs of the J-frames being declared dead. They still sell a hell of a lot of them.

Since I'm no longer physically able to rack the slide of one of the micro-autoloaders, or some of the larger ones, and can't be sure I wouldn't limp-wrist an automatic under duress, I'll stick with the J-frame. But I've stuck with one or another for twenty years, since long before my hands went to hell. I trust them implicitly.

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Oh well, what the hell.

...and trusting what you carry is #1 on most folks list of carry gun requirements.

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Dave

Revolvers are nice when you just need to pistol whip someone though.

I recently acquired a Sig P238 -- a micro 380 auto.

It's very easy to shoot. I shot it better the 1st time out at the range than I can shoot a J frame.

At 20oz and all stainless steel, it has nearly zero recoil. Plus it comes with factory three dot night sights.

I carry only revolvers, but I'll start carrying the Sig sometimes after I practice with it a bit more.

For self defense, I prefer a revolver simplicity as there are no magazines, no cycling issues and no safeties. The 340PD Airlite weighs 11 ounces and is easily carried in my pocket all day.

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Micro?

The sub 15oz range like the Ruger LCP, The Kel Tec P32, PF9, P3AT, P11...really small, incredibly light semi auto firearms.

Compact?

I'd say the mid to low 20oz range, the S&W M&P 9 shield, SA XD sub-compact, Glock 43, SA XD-S, SIG P320...the list goes on and on...

Check that. That's about 5 ounces too heavy for a P238.

I have a P238 and a P938. The P938 obsoletes the 238 as a defensive gun.

Though the 238 is fun to shoot. I once hit 3 straight bowling pins at 30 yards with mine.

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I've still got it made.

Most P238's have a stainless slide and an Aluminum frame and weigh about 15 oz.

But mine is the HD (heavy duty) model which has a stainless steel slide and frame both. So it does weigh more -- about 20 oz.

I'd like to find a P938 at some point. But living in California, I'll have to wait until I find a private party that wants to sell one since the P938 isn't on the roster of guns that can be bought new.

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I wouldn't be willing to bet my life on any semi-automatic not jamming from being fired inside a pocket.

That won't likely keep it in battery in an actual dynamic defense encounter. No auto will consistantly and reliably fire from inside a pocket or otherwise entangled in clothing like an enclosed hammer snub will. Yes, you will find videos where someone will get through a mag successfully(in a calm controlled environment however-not under physical attack), but you'll also find many where they don't. Even if reliabilty is 50/50, I don't like those odds.

Regardless, there is more to consider than just those two issues in the context of ECQ/extreme close-quarter scenarios. It honestly doesn't take that much to foul a reciprocating slide as demonstrated in the included video, whether the contact is intentional(from an assailant) or just inadvertent(even from contact with you).

It's wishful thinking to believe you will be able to maintain a stable retention shooting position during a violent close-quarter attack and the revolver is simply much more reliable in that environment.

Not to mention no malfunctions drills(good luck performing a TRB in an ECQ encounter), no concerns about limp-wristing, no real ammo concerns(dud round?, just pull trigger again), no unintentional mag drops, plus the short muzzle and rounded shape of the snub enhance weapon retention as well as offering extremely quick access and deployment from a pocket or otherwise that you don't get with a small auto. And I just don't think the general reliability of any auto(particular a small one) can match that of a wheelgun. I'm basing my perspective primarily on what I've seen in ECQ force-on-force drills(think MMA with sim guns). Most people have never engaged or even witnessed such training and if they did, they may just change their mind. Many have. I've had a lot of LEO's switch to a snub for a back-up after going through such training.

If you feel a contact distance defense scenario is not likely and of high priority and that a ranged gunfight possibly involving reloading is a realistic probability, then I can understand why an auto might make more sense to you, but I have not seen any statistical evidence to support it or that the onboard capacity of a 5-shot revolver is adequate for concealed carry.

I generally pay very close attention to my surroundings, avoid high risk areas and will do anything I can to avoid shooting another human being, so I believe that reactive, ambush type extreme close-quarter encounters are the most likely defense scenarios I may be involved in and an enclosed hammer snub revolver is IMO the more efficient weapon in those situations. Even if actual physical contact is not involved, the distances will likely be a few feet or perhaps a few yards max, and I still feel more confident in the snubs speed and reliability over that of a small auto.

Thanks for info, Cal44!

I had never heard of the model. At 20 oz, I bet it is FUN TO SHOOT!

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I've still got it made.

I feel like a lot of the micro-auto craze is due to marketing.
HOWEVER, I wouldn't mind having one, I'm just too cheap to get one. (I think it would be fun, and I've never met a gun I didn't like.)
Besides, I own three snubbies.

I have heard a lot of people say "Insert New Plastic gun here" is a Glock Killer but they are still selling better than almost every other gun (just using Glock as an example). I think you meant to say "for you".

My carry guns are S&W Shield 9mm and a CA Bulldog 44spl. (I am not confident in the 38spl with a snubby, just my opinion) The Bulldog is 22oz unloaded and is just a little larger than the Shield but because of the shape it sometimes hides better.

I alternate between the 2 depending on clothing and what bag I have (I off body carry a lot).

When I go camping/fishing I sometimes strap on a S&W M69 with 240gr SWC 44mag (cowboy loads running around 1200fps) or now my CZ 97B with a 200gr/230gr HD-SWC/FMJ-FP depending on where I am and what I am doing.

If I had to choose between the J-frame and the Px4 in 40sw for CCW I would likely choose the J-frame most days. Just my opinion though.

Food for thought: How much have you shot them? Are you competent with either and able to make good hits out to 10 yards or so? I was not able to get good hits with my Bulldog at first, I had to make some modifications to the trigger pull and sights, and then practice a whole bunch. Now I feel comfortable carrying it and using for more than just a belly gun. You never know when someone is going to shoot at you from a distance.

Is it stronger when you say Steel instead of Iron Alloyed with Carbon?

Polymer is an extremely resilient form of plastic. Just like steel is a much stronger form of Iron ore.

that holster is AWESOME. No need for a speedloader. Do you carry that appendix? lol.

But seriously, I want one. Would probably carry it small of the back. Do they make those for CA Bulldogs? I might have to go out and buy another Bulldog if they do. Or maybe I could get a NY reload holster that hold a Shield on one side and a Bulldog on the other. That would be sweet. The best of both worlds.

Instructor - "What do you carry Gunner, a pistol or a revolver?

Gunner - "Yes"

Instructor - "............."

My Bodyguard 380 hurts to shoot, where as my Models 32, 36, 40 & 49 do not.

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Bob P.

In your quote " You said it's still plastic".

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S&W Accumulator

JMO, so long as you compare the "new blood" to the current class leader, it invalidates the claim...

Better than Cadillac, Band-Aids, Les Paul, Platinum, Bentley, Diamonds? Comparing anything to them reinforces the perception that these ARE the best.

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Certified Curmudgeon

It is made by one of our fellow Forum Members . . . Bell Charter Oak

Cool thing, it makes drawing while driving very easy. I just use the weak hand