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Old 10-05-2018, 03:33 PM
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Default Llama number 1 mini 1911 32 acp value

I just won at auction 2 Llama number 1 32acp pistols. One was made in 1944 and may have Nazi connection. The other was made in 1950.
Both are in 75 to 85 % condition. The Blue Book of values does not even list them. Do any of you guys know what they might be valued at. With auction fees and all the other junk added in I have $540.00 each in them. Just wondering if i got burned or not. Thanks papabyrd
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:47 PM
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The number 1's that were sold to Nazi command officers as privately owned side arms will have a GECO stamp on frame. They were the importer at that time.
Those are nice little guns. The holsters are very hard to find.
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Old 10-05-2018, 03:50 PM
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My experience with Llamas has not been good, on in 380 and one in 9mm. However, I am not a 1911 fan either, so maybe I'm missing something of the magic with these pistols.
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Old 10-05-2018, 04:57 PM
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$540 EACH!?!?! Seems a lot to me, but I'm a cheap bar steward.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:33 PM
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I use to drool over those in the tire and auto part of a Montgomery Wards store back in the 1940s and 50s as a grade school aged kid. Looked like kid sized version of the Colt .45 Autos I had seen in the GI Joe comic books. My Dad served in WWII and packed an 1911. He wasn't impressed with the Llamas.
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Old 10-05-2018, 06:38 PM
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I have no idea of value. I had one in 1969 while living in Florida. Gave a guy fifty bucks for it. Remember absolutely nothing about it except that it was almost a dead ringer for a full size 1911, and it was lots of fun to shoot.
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:21 PM
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Unless I'm way off base, I think you need a cool shower, fast. You got burned, probably badly.

I think you'd normally do well to get even $300 for a gun like those.

BTW, I think that very few German officers of staff or command rank would carry a Spanish pistol.

Last edited by Texas Star; 10-05-2018 at 07:32 PM.
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Old 10-05-2018, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papabyrd View Post
I just won at auction 2 Llama number 1 32acp pistols. One was made in 1944 and may have Nazi connection. The other was made in 1950.
Both are in 75 to 85 % condition. The Blue Book of values does not even list them. Do any of you guys know what they might be valued at. With auction fees and all the other junk added in I have $540.00 each in them. Just wondering if i got burned or not. Thanks papabyrd
I HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ATTRACTED TO LLAMA PISTOLS, BECAUSE OF THEIR OUTWARD RESEMBLANCE TO COLT 1911s........

I HAD ONE IN .22 LR, BACK IN 1967. IT WAS A JAMM-O-MATIC ! ! !

A FEW YEARS AGO, I WAS SHOOTING IN A PORT, ADJACENT TO A GUY WHO WAS HAVING FREQUENT STOPPAGES. THEY WERE ACCOMPANIED BY OUT BURSTS OF PROFANITY......

AFTER I HAD FINISHED SHOOTING, I APPROACHED HIM, AND I ASKED IF IF I COULD BE OF ASSISTANCE. AT THAT POINT, HE DROPPED THE MAG, AND RACKED THE SLIDE THUS CLEARING THE WEAPON. HE THEN HANDED ME HIS LLAMA, CHAMBERED IN .380.......

BASED ON MY PAST EXPERIENCES. I WOULD NOT HAVE PAID $540. FOR THE PAIR OF THOSE PISTOLS. IF YOU FIND THAT ONE OF THEM IS NAZI MARKED, I MIGHT KEEP IT AS A WAR RELIC, WITHOUT EVER FIRING IT. I WOULD SELL THE OTHER ONE OFF, IF I COULD.....
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:09 PM
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One of my children has my two Star model S pistols (one . 32acp, one .380acp) liked the Llamas, but never bought one. IIRC the Llamas were always more expensive than the Stars (paid about $200 each for the Stars 10 years ago).
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Last edited by TomkinsSP; 10-05-2018 at 09:13 PM.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:24 PM
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I've got a post-war Llama mini-1911 that's a family heirloom. I firmly believe that you never sell heirloom guns, but I'd happily sell you mine for $540.

I'd say $150 for the 1952 model and $200 for the other one if it has actual Nazi provenance.
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Old 10-05-2018, 09:32 PM
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That’s what I though—$300-350 for the pair.
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Old 10-06-2018, 02:19 AM
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Thanks Guys for the feed back .not the first time i have gotten burned . Knowing me probably wont be the last. Thanks again papabyrd
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:04 AM
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I have a Llama Especial mini 1911 in 22LR that I bought used back in
1973. It is extremely reliable with HS LRs with plated 40 gr solid bullets.
I don't shoot it much these days but I used to. I kept track of my round
count for a little while and I ran 2,000 CCI Mini Mags through it without
a single jam or misfire. It's a great little pistol but I don't think it's
worth any where near $540. Back in the 70s they used to be fairly
common but not any more. A friend had one in .380 that was very
reliable and he used it for CC. I have never seen one in .32 ACP but
I would like to own one but not for $540. Good luck with your two.
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Old 10-06-2018, 09:57 AM
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FWIW, I've read that the .32 was a blowback gun, but that .380's were short recoil operated like the Colt 1911.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
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FWIW, I've read that the .32 was a blowback gun, but that .380's were short recoil operated like the Colt 1911.
You are correct.

The Star .32 on the other hand has a locked breech just like the 1911.
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Old 10-06-2018, 10:46 AM
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The most reliable 380 I have ever owned was a Llama, it was a early 70s vintage with the ventilated rib. I was very lucky as Llamas are generally not all that reliable. I regret selling it.

I really like Astras, and Stars are good serviceable pistols, other Spanish guns I am wary of. Especially their shotguns.
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Old 10-06-2018, 05:54 PM
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LLama Mod I (32) and II (380) are locked breech op.
Model III (380) is locked breech op until production was reached in the late 70's and the Model IIIA series 3,4 & 5 came out and these were blowback op.

Those early Model I and II have the 'W' shaped flat spring under the left grip to power the thumb safety and slide lock detents. No tube under there with coil spring and plungers inside yet. That feature arrived in about 1954 production.
The left grip panel extending all the way up the side of the frame and near touching the underside of the slide is a feature of the pistols using that 'W' shaped thumb safety/slide stop spring.

Nice early pistols. Don't under estimate the prewar Llama 32's as far as value. The Geco marked pistols can bring $300 to $500+ depending on condition and wether an orig holster, cap papers or other accessorys are with it. It's another Axis pistol for collectors.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:28 PM
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What I have read about LLamas tells me someone was running up the bids on you. I got burned my first time on Ebay like that.

I would have been surprised the bidding on each gun didn't stop at $200. Yep live and learn. How do I know? Been there done that myself. I ain't no cherry anymore either.
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Old 10-06-2018, 06:50 PM
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FWIW, the late gun and hunting writer John H. Wootters, Jr. had a Llama .357 revolver. I think he got it on a factory trip in the 1980's. He told me that it had the usual timing problems so evident in US-made revolvers from the late '60s until well into the mid 1980's. But I think he had that corrected and found it to be a good gun, comparable to the S&W M-19. John didn't own "cheap" guns and he knew firearms quite well. If he said his Llama Comanche (?) was a good gun, I believed him.

But overall, I think Astra revolvers were better thought of. Their autos were also sound, although I prefer Star guns in Spanish autos.

Oh: John also had a .380 Llama. He mentioned reloading hot for it, relying on the locked breech feature.

My most reliable small auto has been a Beretta M-34 .380, and they're famous for working right. I've wanted a Star Model S or Super S, but never found one priced right when I had the money. And I'm leery of Star firing pins breaking.

The later Star M-30 was a solid gun, heavy, but reliable and accurate. Some gave remarkable service on US shooting ranges. Interarms advertised that one M-30 had fired over 93,000 rounds on one range. I actually called that range, and they verified this, adding that that gun had since exceeded 100,000 rounds! Interarms gave excellent service when small repairs were needed on their Star guns.

Last edited by Texas Star; 10-06-2018 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 10-06-2018, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
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Their autos were also sound, although I prefer Star guns in Spanish autos.
I have several Star semis. They do what it says on the can.
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Old 10-06-2018, 07:08 PM
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I have a full size Llama Max in 9mm that I used when I was in IPSC. It was accurate and it never jammed. And it has an 18 round magazine.

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Old 10-06-2018, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
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I have a full size Llama Max in 9mm that I used when I was in IPSC. It was accurate and it never jammed. And it has an 18 round magazine.

Llama number 1 mini 1911 32 acp value-20171220_221157-jpg
Mario-

Thanks! I don't think that model was imported to the USA. At least, I never saw an ad for it.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:10 AM
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Quote:
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Mario-

Thanks! I don't think that model was imported to the USA. At least, I never saw an ad for it.
Maybe it wasn't. This was a 1990s model, the correct name is Llama Max II. There was also a .45 ACP with 13 round capacity(I bought the 9 mm version because I could get the ammo really cheap). Anyways, with the magazine capacity limits in the US, the big advantage wasn't apparent and the drawback was a rather fat grip, on account of the double stack msgazine, suitable only for largish hands(my case). The best part of it is, that there was an agreement between Llama and our shooting federation. So the pistol cost me, brand new, the equivalent of 250 Bucks with 4 spare magazines back in 1997.

Sorry for the thread drift.
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:02 AM
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Got my Llama's from Milestone Auctions today and their grading of firearm
condition is way off. Bothe these pistols are 95% or better.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:25 AM
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You didn't pay too much, you just bought them too early.
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