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Old 10-08-2018, 08:15 PM
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Default Underappreciated Firearms

What firearm or firearms do you feel are underappreciated?

Here's one I have. A Colt Gov. Pocketlite .380. This one dates to 1994. I've always thought this was an excellent shorts & t-shirt IWB summer carry. 7+1 of .380 in a lightweight but shootable package.

This particular one went through a few Deputies I worked with over the years before I acquired it. One even had an ND with it (no one was hurt).

At one time, I actually put it on consignment at a local shop, but no one wanted it. I went back a few months later and picked it up. No plans to ever sell it again.

It seems like all the 1911 makers have lined-up to copy it's little brother the Mustang, but I always preferred the longer grip & slide of this model.

As a lefty, I added the ambi-safety.

I took it to the range a few weeks ago. It ran 100% and was self-defense accurate. I've even ran it with HP's without any hiccups.

This one's a keeper.

Show me you underappreciated firearm.



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Old 10-08-2018, 08:22 PM
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CZ 75 under appreciated.

This is two shots from holster, 10 yards, double action then single action. First time I looked I thought I missed one until I walked up to the target.


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Old 10-08-2018, 08:40 PM
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The little Savage .32s - 1907 and 1917 Model. They can still be obtained relatively inexpensively, and they are cool little guns.

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Old 10-08-2018, 08:45 PM
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The little Savage .32s - 1907 and 1917 Model. They can still be obtained relatively inexpensively, and they are cool little guns.

I agree.

Picked one up a few months ago. Surprised at how accurate it was.

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Old 10-08-2018, 08:47 PM
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The M1 Garand.

All but forgotten by many, considered an antique by most, I firmly believe they are still a viable and effective fighting rifle even today. Eight rounds of .30-06 gov’t and a fast reloading method. You’re telling me that ain’t firepower?? I DON’T CARE how old it is! It’ll still work!!
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:54 PM
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I think it's a tough question to answer.

I'll try to throw out one that I truly believe, even if this audience tries to argue.

Smith & Wesson, Model 10 with 4-inch heavy barrel

Well yes, they made millions, so how could it possibly be under rated?!
I get that, I really do. But you must admit, in these pages, it's Registered Magnums, 25's & 27's, Triple Locks, 686's, Model 19's, J-frames a-plenty, 29's and K-32's and Model 14's and 17's, 18's, 38-44's, big X-frames and high-buck 610's!

You can lay down three Hundreds and walk away with a Mod 10HB and you're actually holding a true American icon and the way they shoot, WOW. And you might even get change back from your purchase.
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Old 10-08-2018, 08:56 PM
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I have one just like yours Dump - only mine is 10 years older.
Actually my very first handgun, purchased in 1987.
Like you I've always liked the longer grip & slide too.
Certainly under-appreciated.

Last edited by BC38; 10-08-2018 at 10:01 PM.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:09 PM
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Fixed sight S&W K frames have never received the adulation these models have earned.

The Sig P250, SP2009/2022/2340 series are severely overlooked as well.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:13 PM
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I agree completely only I was going to say the Smith model 64. I also think the Sig P6 is also underrated compared to it's higher capacity counterparts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
I think it's a tough question to answer.

I'll try to throw out one that I truly believe, even if this audience tries to argue.

Smith & Wesson, Model 10 with 4-inch heavy barrel

Well yes, they made millions, so how could it possibly be under rated?!
I get that, I really do. But you must admit, in these pages, it's Registered Magnums, 25's & 27's, Triple Locks, 686's, Model 19's, J-frames a-plenty, 29's and K-32's and Model 14's and 17's, 18's, 38-44's, big X-frames and high-buck 610's!

You can lay down three Hundreds and walk away with a Mod 10HB and you're actually holding a true American icon and the way they shoot, WOW. And you might even get change back from your purchase.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:28 PM
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Sigs, Smiths, Garands? C'mon!



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Old 10-08-2018, 09:31 PM
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SW Jframe I feel needs some more appreciation for sure.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:36 PM
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Glock Model 42 .380
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:37 PM
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For me....the Star Firestar's and Astra A-70/75 fit the bill in handguns in addition to the Bersa Thunderer.

The Savage Axis line in rifles are quite under-rated.

Have you seen a Savage Bolt gun not shoot well? Some shoot better than others, but they ALL shoot well...really well.

The Remington 788 line up....The rumor mill suggested that the 788 was eating into the accuracy of the 700 so it was discontinued.

If it were re-introduced today it would be a dragon slayer, especially chambered with the 6.5 Creedmoore!

Also from Remington, the Model 5 bolt action rifle .22lr imported from Zastava. Great action and very accurate. Mine is near Anschutz/CZ level of accuracy.

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Old 10-08-2018, 09:46 PM
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Accurate,well balanced and cheap.This one is from '54
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
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For me....the Star Firestar's and Astra A-70/75 fit the bill in handguns in addition to the Bersa Thunderer.
Plus, with the Firestar, if you run out of bullets, you can just beat Ďem to death with it.

My handgun nominee is the Sig P239 in .357Sig. Honorable mention is a Sig/Mauser M2 in .45ACP. With the rotating barrel, itís very soft recoiling for quick follow up shots. I have one in .40 S&W that Iíve converted to 10mm and is really sweet to shoot, but iím assuming we are sticking to factory offerings.
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Old 10-08-2018, 09:58 PM
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Beretta PX4 Compact.

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Old 10-08-2018, 10:23 PM
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Savage 99


Remington 17


Ithaca 4E Knick


Remington 31


Ithaca NID
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by growr View Post
The Remington 788 line up
This was the first thing that popped into my mind. Although, they're a lot higher in the pecking order today among those who like classic rifles than they were back when I started shooting.

And my nomination will be the bolt-action shotgun.
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:29 PM
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I agree on thr fixed sight K-frames, especially in .38 special.

The fancy .357s and .44s with adjustasights overshadowed them. But they are absolute timeless work horses and are highly effective fighting handguns. I remember but a year ago seeing several Illinois state corrections officers packing their Model 64s in a local hospital on prisoner transportation duty. Guys, THESE GUNS ARE STILL OUT THERE doing the job! But it’s hard to hear about them over the Registered Magnums and other fancy guns so popular on the forums.

Plus, as one mentioned, they can be had CHEAP and that’s for ones in good shape with NO LOCK. The Model 10s and Model 64s are incredible, and are still viable with training and practice!!!
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Old 10-08-2018, 10:36 PM
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The bull barrel Hi-Standard .22s. Those hair trigger guns were terrific. They're not nearly as easy to customize as similar models by S&W, Ruger, Browning, etc, hence their lack of popularity.
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:35 PM
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The Model 10 and all it's predecessors has walked more beats, checked more door knobs, rode in more patrol cars, helped cuff more offenders, comforted and protected more law officers then any other gun I can think of. Yet, it is frowned upon by its big brothers. But it has endured the looks, the snide remarks and still does the job it was asked to perform.

Thank you Model 10. Thank you for your service!
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Old 10-08-2018, 11:44 PM
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The HK P7.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:24 AM
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I would add the Makerov PM to the list. A stout, all steel combat vet in at least 14 wars and used by 40+ counties. The round is comparable to the .380 and functions flawlessly. Hornaday Critical Defense loads are very good. Extra mags can be found for $10. A nice compact semi auto.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:27 AM
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Ruger P95. Only Ruger could find a way to overbuild a polymer 9mm. Ugly, rattly, but goes bang every time.

Star Firestar M43. Small, concealable, all steel and incredibly overbuilt. Shoots well.

FEG Walther PP clones. Actually, they are an improvement on the original. Very slim and concealable for a 4" barreled gun. That length gets the best out of properly loaded 7.65 ammo. Go up on the recoil spring and down on the mainspring and you have a very shootable piece.

Sig P250 and 290RS in .380. Both are locked breech designs that had that particular market sewn up, albeit a small one. With some amazing bad timing, Sig discontinued these just months before the US finally woke up en masse to the unassailable logic of locked breech .380s. The Glock 42 and the 380EZ now have the bulk of that market to themselves.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:57 AM
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Ruger P89, Smith 469, H&R 999, and the Stevens 311 side-by-side.

The Ruger has the ergonomics of an old-fashioned flat iron, but is just about 100% reliable and indestructible. The 469 is a solid, reliable compact 9mm. The H&R is the one top-break that interests me. The 311, no frills, box lock, double triggers, extractors, is a utilitarian but very satisfactory double gun for not much money. A 311 in 20 gauge was my all-time favorite shotgun.
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Old 10-09-2018, 12:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dump1567 View Post
What firearm or firearms do you feel are underappreciated?

Here's one I have. A Colt Gov. Pocketlite .380. This one dates to 1994. I've always thought this was an excellent shorts & t-shirt IWB summer carry. 7+1 of .380 in a lightweight but shootable package.

This particular one went through a few Deputies I worked with over the years before I acquired it. One even had an ND with it (no one was hurt).

At one time, I actually put it on consignment at a local shop, but no one wanted it. I went back a few months later and picked it up. No plans to ever sell it again.

It seems like all the 1911 makers have lined-up to copy it's little brother the Mustang, but I always preferred the longer grip & slide of this model.

As a lefty, I added the ambi-safety.

I took it to the range a few weeks ago. It ran 100% and was self-defense accurate. I've even ran it with HP's without any hiccups.

This one's a keeper.

Show me you underappreciated firearm.



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Old 10-09-2018, 01:04 AM
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Savage 340, mine are a 222 and 30-30. great little rifles. just weird enough to keep me interested
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:08 AM
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Ruger Single Action Revolvers. Old or New Models.
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:19 AM
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Mouse Guns--Astra Cub and Camper in 22 short
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Old 10-09-2018, 07:34 AM
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The Browning Twelvette Double Auto

Sound and high quality shotgun, designed by the
'young' Browning himself.
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
The M1 Garand.

All but forgotten by many, considered an antique by most, I firmly believe they are still a viable and effective fighting rifle even today. Eight rounds of .30-06 gov’t and a fast reloading method. You’re telling me that ain’t firepower?? I DON’T CARE how old it is! It’ll still work!!
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I've argued many times that the M1 Garrand is a far more deadly gun than an AR-15. The rate of fire can be almost the same but the M1 shoots a much more powerful round. In the hands of someone trained to use one they can be devastating. They kick too much for some people especially if they don't know how to hold a rifle. I'd hate to think what that guy in Las Vegas could have done with M1's. A lot of the people who were wounded would have been dead instead. I hesitate to point this out for fear some lunatic will put it in practice.
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:23 AM
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The Beretta 92 gets bad mouthed a lot.........

too big......slides cracking..... military use/issue of low bidder magazines.

Over the years there have been/are options to the original 92 M-9 version..... Compact, Centurion,Elite models and even a single stack version.

Today you can get great factory or Mec-gar magazines ,slim G-10 grips, new guns come with radius'ed backstrap......... FS versions.


Around the Burgh they are slow sellers and you can get great deals on 'used guns"

It's a great gun.... just ask Bill Wilson, Earnest Langon or Ken Hackathorn!!
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:38 AM
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The Kel-Tec P32. Thousands of pocket miles..dozens of kills..always ready and willing. Dollar for ounce..one of the least appreciated firearms out there..but I love mine.

Rats...I hate rats...
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Old 10-09-2018, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JayFramer View Post
The M1 Garand.

All but forgotten by many, considered an antique by most, I firmly believe they are still a viable and effective fighting rifle even today. Eight rounds of .30-06 gov’t and a fast reloading method. You’re telling me that ain’t firepower?? I DON’T CARE how old it is! It’ll still work!!
I think the M1 Garand is appreciated exactly for what it is.


However, the M14 added a more permissive and less sensitive gas system, and a detachable 20 round magazine. The Garand I do low prone better, but that's about it.

The BM-59 is another case in point - an M1 updated and modified to take a box magazine.

---

I do however think the M1 Carbine has always been under appreciated. It's lightweight, handles extremely well and is accurate enough for self defense out to 300 yards or small game at out to 100 yards. The round is more of a pistol round than the usual centerfire pistol class, and it falls a bit under the intermediate rounds like the German 7.92x33 and the Soviet 7.62x39 rounds developed at the same time, but it's easy to hand load and fun to shoot.


Last edited by BB57; 10-09-2018 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:03 AM
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Another vote for Mouseguns. Often maligned, made fun of and called useless. But they do serve a valid purpose.

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Old 10-09-2018, 10:16 AM
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A few firearms come to mind when I think "under appreciated".

1) The FEG AP and APK pistols. Whether in 7mm Browning or 9mm Kurz, these PP and PPK/S clones are well made, reliable and available for less than half the cost of a Walther, Manuhrin or Ranger made pistol in similar condition.



2) The FEG P9 and first gen P9M. These are superb copies of the Browning Hi Power, and are again available at 1/2 to 1/3 the price of a comparable FN or Hi Power in similar condition. I'll add the licensed "FN" Argentine Hi Power to this same category.



3) The Star BM. These are great little single stack 9mm pistols available for around $250 to $300 in very good to excellent condition. They are also well made, and very reliable.



4) The Model 94 Winchester. Here I mean underappreciated in their original role as a "deer rifle". All three of the pre-64 Model 94s I have owned have been capable of 1.5 MOA accuracy with a tang sight. Fast, accurate, reliable, and wonderfully well balanced and easy to carry, chambered for cartridges that will get the job done (and in .30-30 are still among the most affordable centerfire rounds out there). What more could you ask for in a hunting rifle for medium sized game when the ranges are in the 200 yard or less range?



5) AR-180 an AR-180B. The AR-18 was designed for ease of production in countries where the milled forgings and close tolerances of the M-16 made production of that rifle difficult. The folding stock and piston driven design were just added benefits and perhaps before their time. The AR-180 competed head to head with the Colt AR-15. The AR-15 was slightly more accurate, and had more refined looks, which promoted greater sales despite costing about 50% more. The later AR-180B was more cost efficient to produce, substituting a polymer lower for the stamped and welded lower, but it was competing with already well entrenched $500 AR-15s that offered the ability to accessorize to a far greater degree. But the AR-180B was lighter and offered the advantage of the near optimum 18" barrel in a very convenient package. Plus, while a folding stock was no longer standard it was easy to add one that was far more durable than the original.

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Old 10-09-2018, 10:21 AM
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The Swedish Mauser. The most accurate military bolt action rifle was ever made. A work of art. The ones that were turned into target rifles by the Swedish shooting societies are scary accurate.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by BAM-BAM View Post
The Beretta 92 gets bad mouthed a lot.........

too big......slides cracking..... military use/issue of low bidder magazines.

Over the years there have been/are options to the original 92 M-9 version..... Compact, Centurion,Elite models and even a single stack version.

Today you can get great factory or Mec-gar magazines ,slim G-10 grips, new guns come with radius'ed backstrap......... FS versions.


Around the Burgh they are slow sellers and you can get great deals on 'used guns"

It's a great gun.... just ask Bill Wilson, Earnest Langon or Ken Hackathorn!!
Yup. The 92s are great. Love my 92FS. One of these days I'm going to try some slim grips.

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Old 10-09-2018, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
5) AR-180 an AR-180B. The AR-18 was designed for ease of production in countries where the milled forgings and close tolerances of the M-16 made production of that rifle difficult. The folding stock and piston driven design were just added benefits and perhaps before their time. The AR-180 competed head to head with the Colt AR-15. The AR-15 was slightly more accurate, and had more refined looks, which promoted greater sales despite costing about 50% more. The later AR-180B was more cost efficient to produce, substituting a polymer lower for the stamped and welded lower, but it was competing with already well entrenched $500 AR-15s that offered the ability to accessorize to a far greater degree. But the AR-180B was lighter and offered the advantage of the near optimum 18" barrel in a very convenient package. Plus, while a folding stock was no longer standard it was easy to add one that was far more durable than the original.

Forgot all about those. I'll have to start looking for one.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:45 AM
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J&G in Prescott blew out a bunch of 92s awhile back in 2 grades that were reportedly Italian police surplus. The higher grade which I bought was in virtually brand new unissued condition and I paid around $300 for it. I now wish I'd bought several.
Jim
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:48 AM
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My answer to the OP's question is that...IMHO, any firearm which is NOT a gas operated semi-auto with a high capacity magazine...is highly underappreciated.
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Old 10-09-2018, 10:58 AM
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The Smith & Wesson Model 915 is often denigrated because it is part of the "value line" with the mode 910 that succeeded it. It is a robust firearm that can do anything any other 9mm handgun can do.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:09 AM
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My nomination for a top notch semi-auto that receives far less attention and purchases than it should:......The Italian made Tanfoglio group of handguns.

I have a fair amount of experience in modification of which I feel they need very little. And, I have considerable experience in general shooting and competition with the full sized 9mm, the 40 S&W and the 45 acp. The full sized frame in all three have exactly the ergonomics that works for me with my smaller sized hands. The out of the box accuracy was very good in all three with which I competed. My favorite by far is the 45 acp. It performs like a full sized self defense handgun should. And, I purchased the upper slide kit to convert to 22 LR just by a quick slide change. I don't know the manufacturer of this kit, but it is very accurate and reliable. It is the best of both worlds; self defense and fun plinker. The 22 LR can and should be used in range practice as it is much easier to see what the shooter is doing wrong or what part of the shooter's technique that could be tweeked for more accuracy and speed-up of subsequent shots. I am a Tanfoglio fan. ...........
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:13 AM
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Speaking of overlooked mouse guns, you don't hear much about the Beretta tip-up barrel Tomcat or Bobcat. Although I've never shot one, a senior friend who has poor hand strength asked my opinion on available options. She's looking at the EZ .380, which is probably a good contender for her needs, but I read the new .32 ammo is getting good ratings. I guess they have a strong DA trigger. Are the tip-ups reliable? Never see them.
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Old 10-09-2018, 11:15 AM
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I know many will disagree but Taurus makes some very unappreciated pistols. They aren't all junk. Some are very, very good. I have one of those. It's a PT-145. I can cover it with the palm of my hand, it's 1.25" thick yet manages a double stack of .45's (11+1), it fits my hand like a glove, it's never jammed even once through thousands of rounds, and it is as accurate as any handgun I own out to 25 yards and I have a bunch of handguns. It loses accuracy after 25 yards when handguns like my 629 and my Sig P220 are still right on target but they both have much longer barrels. The Taurus is a concealed carry gun.

I know Taurus has made lots of junk. I was very hesitant to buy one myself. But a LGS owner gave me a 30 day trial period where I could bring it back no questions asked. He knew I wouldn't bring it back. I still went home and did a bunch of research on the pistol before deciding to give it a try. Every review was positive. Every one so I went back and brought it home with me. I knew the first day I would have that pistol forever.

Yes I know about the problems with the line of pistols firing with the safety engaged when the gun is dropped. I dropped mine a couple of times before I knew that and it didn't fire. IWB holsters can be tricky when you sit down. Every time it dropped it hit concrete too. They wanted to buy it back or trade it for a different model but I have a G2 also. It is not nearly as accurate as the PT-145. It's a fine weapon though and I carry it sometimes. But I keep the PT next to where I sleep.

I still can't imagine how they got that many rounds in such a small gun but they did. It shoots great, it recoils better than "any" pistol I've ever shot, accurate, reliable, concealable - what more could a person ask for?

Plus I only paid $325 for it and I got an extra mag. I had double that amount in my pocket because I was looking for a Glock. I could not find one that fit my hand at all. That's when the LGS owner suggested I look at the Taurus. And I am very glad he did.

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Old 10-09-2018, 12:25 PM
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I don't consider the CZ-75 underappreciated. It is a great gun, and anyone who doesn't know that didn't pay attention to Jeff Cooper, whoever he was.

In my distorted mind, the two most underrated handguns fire almost the same cartridge. One is the Mauser "Broomhandle," which used to never be discussed without mentioning the "awkward grip." Only it wasn't awkward, and it was even better if one utilized a Tyler T-grip (probably a #3, IIRC). While this placed the bore quite a bit above the shooter's forearm, it didn't matter very much in a standard-weight gun with a cartridge containing an 85gr bullet. Until the advent of the .357 Magnum, it was velocity and KE champ, and may have been penetration champ even after.

The Tokarev fired the same cartridge, with slightly higher pressure specs, in a fairly conventional-looking pistol with no safety, and a hammer/sear/cartridge-guide group that removes as a subassembly. Almost ANYthing wrong with your pistol, one assembly to remove and send to depot-level maintenance. I am not sure whether that worked out to any real advantage in practice, but it sure sounds good.
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Old 10-09-2018, 01:02 PM
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There are some back on the market just not in that higher grade. Numerich is selling "fair" examples currently for $200 and Robertson's is selling good-very good condition in the $280-$325 range.
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J&G in Prescott blew out a bunch of 92s awhile back in 2 grades that were reportedly Italian police surplus. The higher grade which I bought was in virtually brand new unissued condition and I paid around $300 for it. I now wish I'd bought several.
Jim
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Old 10-09-2018, 02:21 PM
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Another underappreciated rifle design is the MAS 49/56 and its forebears. The simplicity of it is stunning. The most complicated parts are in the grenade launching sight arrangement. I field stripped one for a gun store here that had never seen one before. When I opened it up they thought half the guts were missing. The only drawback to the design was the use of old truck springs as the trigger return springs. Once you fix that it's a handy sized soft shooting gun in a substantial caliber. It is rather funky looking though.
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ranger514 View Post
Speaking of overlooked mouse guns, you don't hear much about the Beretta tip-up barrel Tomcat or Bobcat. Although I've never shot one, a senior friend who has poor hand strength asked my opinion on available options. She's looking at the EZ .380, which is probably a good contender for her needs, but I read the new .32 ammo is getting good ratings. I guess they have a strong DA trigger. Are the tip-ups reliable? Never see them.
I have a 3032 (.32acp), 22As (in .25acp and .22LR), and a 950 (.22 Short). For what they are, small blowback, pocket pistols they are great. Keep 'em clean (pure blowback, no extractor) and they can keep you alive. (NYPD had some they issued to undercover officers making narcotics purchaces back in the day.)
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Old 10-09-2018, 08:20 PM
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Astra Constable is a beautifully made little 380 that doesn't bite the hand when you shoot it and it very accurate and reliable. Love it
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